24P Workflow

We got a new HD system last year with two Panasonic HPX500P cams. We do Corporate Video so we generally stick to 30/60i settings but I wanted to play around with the Cine settings on the camera. I've been digging through the menus and output some 24P footage but everytime I bring it into FCP, even in a sequence that is set for 24fps it still looks bad to me. I know it's the pulldown but I don't understand why FCP isn't compensating for that. I've seen other posts that say to bring the footage into Cinema Tools to correct the pulldown and get it to 30fps but that just seems odd to me. Shouldn't you be able to edit it raw in FCP and then change the settings when you do final output, depending on how you want it to be output?
I would love to hear experiences/workflow from someone that has shot 24p both for final output to TV and for Film if possible. Thanks!

I had just assumed that when you were in FCP and had the sequence set to 23.98 that it would be smooth on my monitor. Why wouldn't it be?
Well, did you SHOOT 23.98? Look at the frame rate of the footage. Is it 29.97 or 23.98? If it is 29.97, and you put it into a 23.98 sequence...then no, it won't look good at all! FCP doesn't remove pulldown properly in the timeline. Instead of 2:3:3:2 or 2:3:2:3, it does 2:2:2:4. BAD. So no, just changing the frame rate doesn't work. That only works well with Avid Media Composer 4.0.
So, why shoot in 24p at all?
To get the film look. You can shoot 24p and have the frame rate still be 29.97...as I said. People who shoot 23.98 either master to 23.98 (HDCAM SR, HDCAM, D5 formats support this)...or output to DVD directly, and that supports this, or print to film. Or upload to the web only...that supports 23.98. OR, because 23.98 takes up a lot less space than 29.97. And if you have a decent HD capture card, it will add the proper pulldown when you output. So you can shoot and edit 23.98, but deliver 29.97. SD tape, and a lot of broadcasters and corporate delivery requirements are still 29.97.
Why have the option on the camera?
Because people want the film look, and don't like the VIDEO look. Mainly people shooting short or feature films...and TV shows and some documentaries. Before 24P people bought PAL versions of cameras that shot 25fps, then adjusted the speed when they were done to 24fps.
I had assumed that was part of getting a more Cinematic look to the footage.
EXACTLY.
But if it just ends up as 29.97 why do it at all?
Because some of us don't like the smooth video "soap opera" look of 29.97. And as I stated, you can shoot 24p at 29.97 and edit 29.97 just fine.
I shot in every mode on that camera and did comparison. It won't do 1080p/24p, though, just 1080i/24p.
1080i 24p is the way to get 24p in a 29.97 frame rate. it is just called 1080p24 by some people.
Shane

Similar Messages

  • HD 720 24p workflow to SD DVD

    I have an HVX200. I shot in HD 720 24pn, editing in 720 24p timeline, how do I see the output on a SD monitor in realtime in order to do color correction? I only have a fiirewire DVCam deck. I can onlt seem to see one frame at a time through my deck?
    After editing in the 720 24p timeline, I tried select all and pasting into a DVNTSC (29.97) timeline. I can see the video in real time, but I got one frame gaps in my sequence. What do I do with that?
    I've read that outputting through compressor is best workflow to DVD, but I would like to see it on a SD monitor first to color correct.
    Confused

    You cannot view DVCPRO HD thru a DV deck in real time. Nor will you see anything resembling accurate color. You will need an HD capture card and HD monitor. One cheap option is the Matrox MXO and Apple Cinema Display.
    http://library.creativecow.net/articles/ross_shane/MXO.php
    If you have a MacPro, you can look into the Decklink Intensity and then an HDTV.
    After editing in the 720 24p timeline, I tried select all and pasting into a DVNTSC (29.97) timeline. I can see the video in real time, but I got one frame gaps in my sequence. What do I do with that?
    Don't do that. Why are you doing that? When you copy and paste clips of one frame rate into a sequence of another frame rate...that happens. So...don't do that.
    I've read that outputting through compressor is best workflow to DVD, but I would like to see it on a SD monitor first to color correct.
    Well...you can do it the way you are doing it, but the colors won't be accurate and you can only see one frame at a time. Unfortunately you cannot route the signal thru the camera like you can DV...so you are still looking at needing an HD capture card and HD monitor or TV. Or MXO/ACD.
    Shane

  • 550d 24p workflow

    Can someone point me to an article that clearly illustrates a smooth workflow that moves from shooting 24p footage on a Canon 550D - importing into and editing with FCP6 - then exporting to the web and DVD?
    much thanks

    You might try these threads...
    http://discussions.apple.com/search.jspa?threadID=&q=%22canon+550d%22&objID=f939 &dateRange=last90days&userID=&numResults=15&rankBy=10001
    K

  • 1080 24p workflow

    I am using the Canon T2i and shooting in 1080 24p (23.98). I am transcoding in moegstreamclip to ProRes 422 and leaving the frame rate blank. I am assuming that when I use the FCP Video settings of ProRes 422 1920x1080 24p it is going to work with my 23.98 footage. Would this be correct?
    Thanks

    Your workflow is correct, but there's no Easy Setup for this. Just import the files into FCP.
    When you drag the first clip into the Sequence, you will be asked if you want the Sequence Settings to match the footage. Choose Yes and you're good to go.

  • Which? CS3 or Elements for HV20 24p work?

    Hello:
    I am an ELements user and I was made an offer to upgrade to Pro CS3 for $299. Will this upgrade buy me anything?
    I have a Canon HV20 and the big pain is the 24p workflow. Does Pro CS3 offer any improvement over pulldown? I can see various 24p related options in Elments (grayed out and disabled of course) so it leads me to think that maybe working with this footage is easier.
    Advice needed!
    peace|dewde

    > I have a Canon HV20 and the big pain is the 24p workflow.
    Whatever you decide, keep in mind that HDV is a delivery format. Editing is
    often easier when editing in a (drum roll please) editing format.
    Best,
    Christopher

  • 24p Project

    I've recently been experimenting with the 24p capabilities of an older Canon XL2. I've read up a little on pulldowns and the appropriate setup, but when it comes to actually working with the footage in Final Cut I'm lost. I've have a few test clips recorded at both 24p (3:2) and 24pA (2:3:3:2) in Standard Definition. From reading, I've understood that when pulling 24p into a 29.97 sequence it's best to record at (3:2) but for a 24p workflow (2:3:3:2) is the best option.
    So, my clips are DV/DVCPRO and I've been pulling them into a DV-NTSC 24p (23.98) and DV-NTSC 24p Advanced Pulldown Removal anamorphic sequence. My first problem is that both my (3:2) and (2:3:3:2) clips are interpreted by Final Cut as 29.97 and the Field Dominance as "Lower (Even)." Second, when I drag the clip into the sequence it changes the field dominance from "None" to "Lower (Even)" which causes the footage to display as interlaced. I fix this by just changing it back (but why would it change and why aren't the clips progressive?).
    I guess my question is: considering I only shoot for web what should I shoot my footage at and what type of sequence should I be working in? I like the look of 24p and would really like come up with a workflow that supports it.
    I'm working in Final Cut Pro 6.0.6.
    Any help is appreciated.
    Jason

    One last bit of information. Traditionally the Canon XL2 records to DV tape but the the deck has gone out and now we record to a hard drive that connects via firewire to the camera.

  • Canon HV20 24p: 3rd party solution?

    I'm looking hard at buying a Canon HV20 for 24p work and using with FCE, which I'd be upgrading from an old version (and learning how to use, but that's another story LOL!).
    It's my understanding that FCE can't edit the HV20's 24p-format output. I'm wondering if there are third-party fixes for this, either a standalone converter of some kind or a plug-in. It's my understanding that, failing this, I could activate a Windows partition on my new iMac and work with Windows software to edit the 24p stuff, but that is something I'd really like to avoid.

    Here are two links that are on the sight mentioned above
    60i to 24p workflow for Mac/Final Cut Pro
    http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?p=1840
    Easy Mac Workflow for 720p24 h.264 output
    http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=1967
    24p versus 25p FCP workflow sight may answer the real 24p question for those who understand such thing - I really don't.
    http://allantépper.biz/sub5k/Stupid-Smart.html
    Hope this helps

  • New HDVxDV version supports HD100 24P!

    JVC HD100 owners rejoice! 24P workflow is simplified at last.
    Here is a link to versiontracker's description:
    http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/25536
    From Versiontracker -- What's new in this version:
    HDVxDV 1.024 adds support for the JVC ProHD 24 frame per second HDV format. It allows you to capture and convert video from the new JVC GY-HD100U camera and edit in Final Cut Pro, Avid or any other editing system that supports Quicktime. HDVxDV features real time audio and video preview of native HDV video and selectable 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 color upsampling. You can export either drop-frame or non-drop frame timecode to export to Quicktime in the HDVxDV preferences. In addition, the timecode is now displayed in the timeline. When a new Quicktime movie is created, the original camera's timecode will be preserve

    HDVxDV does not extract timecode...nor does LumiereHD. Which is why they are not the best solutions.
    Shane

  • 24p reverse telecine

    I used to be able to reverse telecine 24p footage from HVX200 camera but now its not working and people are now telling me that it only works with 24pa footage. I used 24p workflow in the past and it worked fine. What has changed? I think I used the 24p workflow before final cut supported 24pa. I already have a whole project shot in 24p and need to reverse telecine.

    workflow:
    shoot with HVX200 in 1080i/24p
    import/transfer P2 files into FCP
    Reverse Telecine to work with 24p version of footage in FCP without interlaced frames.
    problem: "cinema tools reverse telecine" under the tools menu does not work as it did with same workflow in previous versions.
    Ok, so it appears that the "pro-apps update 2008-05" (which updates among other things FCP to 6.0.5) is the problem. I have decided to work in 6.0.1 where the workflow works fine. Here is my troubleshooting log:
    I used FCP remover to uninstall the entire studio
    installed 5.0.2 and received corrupted file message when attempting to import P2 file
    upgraded to 5.0.4, P2 files imported (no log and transfer in this version) successfully with a DVCPRO HD 1080i60 compression at 29.97 fps. I applied the "Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine" tool to a selected file (one of the same files I have been working with sense the beginning of this issue and will continue to use through out this troubleshooting) and it successfully processed the file resulting in a 24fps clip with no interlaced frames. YEAH!
    I used software update as far as I could with this version and the workflow was still successful.
    Installed 6.0.1 from CD, the workflow was still successful except the P2 files where coming in with a compression of DVCPROHD 1080p30. I don't see a problem with this. The resulting file was still 24p without any interlaced frames. And this version also has the log and transfer feature.
    I ran software update and installed "Pro-Apps update 2008-05" and "Cinema Tools update 4.2.1". So I am working in FCP 6.0.5 and the problem starts. "Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine" just simply does not work. Nor does a reverse telecine work if I go directly through Cinema tools and bypass FCP with the imported P2 files (now quicktime).
    I uninstall with FCS remover again.
    I install 6.0.1 from the CD and perform the "Pro-Apps update 2008-05" only which takes me to 6.0.5 again. Still no good.
    I uninstall with FCS remover again.
    I install 6.0.1 from the CD. I don't do any updates and the workflow works great! So I will atleast do the log, transfer, and reverse telecine in this version. In the future I will shoot in 24pa, for that seems to work fine with the same workflow in 6.0.5.
    I am going to leave this post as un-resolved sense Apple still needs to fix this in future versions.

  • Chapters for h.264 compression from FCP

    I've been using FCC to edit videos that are accompanied by slide show presentations. What I do is I put a marker on the time line every time a new slide comes up in the presentation and then I just insert the slides and compress the video.
    What I want to do now is somehow make it so that those markers I placed on the time line are added to the final compressed video (I use h.264 but if there's a way of doing it with another codex then I would consider changing).
    I know that there are ways of adding chapters to already compressed videos by opening them in quick time and going through a relatively lengthy process. The problem is I work with a lot of presentations so it would be great if there was a way of exporting the markers I created in FCC and easily adding them to the compressed video.
    Any ideas?

    For the time being, until we get Blu-ray support on the Mac via DVD Studio Pro as well as a Blu-ray drive for the MacPro, I either export in AVC to make a High-Def DVD playable in a Blu-ray player (limited to about 20 mins. on a DVD-5 or 40 mins. on a DVD-9) or an AVC file playable on my PS-3.
    Since my original post, I've had success working with 1080/24p files in the 60i wrapper as outlined in article HT2410 (Final Cut Pro 6: 1080/24p workflow for Canon HV20). I perform the reverse telecine using compressor and import the 24p file into my sequence. I then export AVCHD via the quicktime encoder and the result is visually indistinguishable from the original MTS files from the SDHC card. So, half my problem is solved, but when I'm working with 1080/60i files, my export has significant interlacing artifacts and judder which the original MTS files don't have. Since my original 24p problem seemed to originate on the import side, I can only assume that the same is the case for the 1080/60i files as well. Problem is, I'm not sure what settings to use to eliminate the problem on the 1080/60i side. I am experiencing the same judder in my canvas viewer further supporting the "import side problem" theory. Any help is appreciated.

  • Quality differences between "Export Using Compressor..." and Drag & Drop

    There are quite a few people out there discussing the 24p workflow for the new Canon HV20 (on hv20.com, dvinfo.net, etc.). The HV20 can shoot 24 progressive frames/sec, but stores them as 29.97 interlaced HDV on tape, with an arbitrary cadence.
    One of the better workflows is to capture into FCP using HDV over Firewire, and use Compressor to extract the progressive frames from the interlaced. Its Reverse Telecine seems to automatically figure out the cadence. I've been testing this using the "Other Workflows > Apple Codecs > Apple ProRes 422 for Progressive material (HQ)" preset, with the following modifications, Frame Controls: On, Deinterlace: Reverse Telecine, Frame Size: 1920x1080.
    That's just background.
    The problem is this. If I export the HDV clip from FCP, "Export > Using Compressor...", the resulting 24p footage is extremely high quality. However, if I drag & drop the HDV clip directly into Compressor, or set up a Compressor droplet (arguably more straightforward for batch conversions), the resulting footage has obvious resizing artifacts (jaggies).
    Obviously, I'm keeping everything consistent setting-wise, and have thoroughly examined the resulting .movs. The only difference is the actual image quality.
    Anyone seen anything like this?
    I'm less concerned about this specific workflow than I am about Compressor producing non-identical results from identical footage with the same settings, dependent on your chosen workflow...
      Mac OS X (10.4.10)  

    What I need to know if it is a dramatic different in quality that I should use DVD Pro instead of iDVD.
    If you want a DRAMATIC improvement in quality, shoot sharp, high quality content like Hollywood (usually on film) and have it compressed by high quality hardware encoders.
    There is a good reason Hollywood DVDs look better than iDVD/DVD Studio Pro DVDs.
    F Shippey

  • Canon HV20 and HDV footage

    Hello All,
    I recently purchased a Canon HV20, but have only recorded and edited in SD DV.
    Today I was reading a clip on the internet that gave me a bit of a surprised. Here is a part of the clip,
    [This article was first published in the Sept/Oct, 2007, issue of
    Larry's Final Cut Pro Newsletter.]
    First, Allan Tépper writes:
    I am writing to offer help for Justin Ascott's 24p workflow with the Canon HV20. The 24p recording of the Canon HV20 has much in common with the 24p recording of the Sony HVR-V1.
    To answer Justin Ascott specifically: The FCP Easy Setup called HDV-1080/24p will not work with 24p footage from the HV20 or the Sony V1. "
    Has anyone here had any experience with FCE and capturing HDV footage from a Canon HV20? Is the statement above true?
    Thanks for your help.
    Mike

    I wonder why my PAL one doesn't do 24p?
    Normal HDV will work perfectly with FCE except it will have to be converted into the Apple Intermediate Codec.
    The Easy Setup is "HDV-Apple Intermediate Codec 1080i60".
    I don't think shooting in HDV and then converting to SD DV will look any better than normal SD but you will have the HDV master tape which can be used to produce Blu-ray DVDs at a later date when they become cheaper and more popular.
    An hour of AIC will take around 40 GB of HD space.
    As with everything it is worth doing quick tests involving something unimportant to determine which workflow suits you. Use DVD-RWs when testing to avoid waste.
    Remember that you can export your HDV edited project back to tape in your camera and connect it to an HD TV for high definition playback.
    I am not too keen on this because of the extra wear it puts on the camera and tape.
    Message was edited by: Ian R. Brown

  • Compressor 3.02 In and Out Points Not Correct

    This is a follow up to my compressor truncating movies post. I'd like to reiterate that my workflow has not changed and no new software has been added to my system. This work flow used to work like a charm, however after the most recent pro applications update this bug surfaced.
    If i drag and drop any uncompressed .mov into compressor, compressor incorrectly detects the in and out points for that clip and truncates the file on output. It seems to be by the same amount every time.
    Example:
    Clip 1 is a 320x240 uncompressed .mov file created and exported directly from final cut pro (exported as self-contained). the file is 1:53:32 in duration.
    Drop that clip into compressor and it sets the in-point at 59:56:09 (it does this every time no matter what clip i try to compress...) and incorrectly reports the duration of the movie as 1:53:05. these in and out times and duration are found in the preview window. no in and out points are set in compressor.
    this being said, the resulting output file (same size, same frame rate - no changes to timing) is truncated and the last 4 seconds and change are cropped off the end of the clip.
    Any ideas? anybody else have the same kind of problem and find a fix?
    I've trashed preferences to no avail... help!
    karl

    right - the question is... what do we do about it?
    i have been able to narrow this down to a problem with footage that's 23.98 fps only however as this is part of my 24p workflow - and because it's the only reason i'm using fcp at this point -- in essence, this problem renders the entire final cut studio useless.
    so frustrating!
    who's found a workaround/fix for this?? i've been using this same workflow successfully for years and in previous versions of final cut. this problem only surfaced in the past couple of weeks.
    AAARGH!
    k

  • 1440 x 1080 in & 1920 x 1080 out

    I'm correcting footage shot with a Canon HV20, captured with Apple's ProRes 422, 24p Workflow, http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2410. This leaves me with 1440x1080, non-square pixeled, ProRes 422 footage. Since the only logical, available option in Color is for me to choose a 1920 x 1080 aspect, does it make sense for me to modify Apple's suggested workflow to output my footage from Compressor as square pixeled, 1920 x 1080 footage or am I asking for trouble? Am I missing something? I'd think the modification to that workflow would allow me to keep sequence settings the same across all of Apple's apps.

    I've never tried it, but I don't see what it would hurt. I've captured HDV into ProRes via FW and having it be 1440x1080 instead of full raster is rather inconvenient.
    -Andrew

  • DV 24p to DVD - Best compression and workflow

    Hello,
    I shot my thesis film on the Panasonic DVX-100a a few years back. Ran out of money and never finished. Luckily, I have the resources to now wrap it up and have some questions about the final export to DVD workflow.
    We re-digitized the film from the original tapes and rebuilt it in FCP. Cut it, had it mixed, and now ready to output it.
    What I've done thus far:
    1. Exported Quicktime movie from timeline (using project settings - DV)
    2. Opened that up with compressor, compressed to 90 min best quality
    3. Screened on plasma (looked like ***) and LCD computer monitor (looked ok)
    What I'd like to know:
    1. Is there a preferred workflow/setting to go out of FCP and onto DVD that will yield better results than what the steps I described above?
    What I was considering doing:
    1. Exporting an uncompressed or animation version from the timeline.
    2. Opening that in Compressor, bumping up the bit rate to 6, using CBR.
    3. Making beta dub to screen for interested parties.
    Original Footage:
    1. We shot Panasonic DVX-100a 24p. Super happy with the look of the film until I saw it on the plasma. I love that rough look but not when it looks like an accident.
    So, any thoughts or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to read this and potentially help my little movie.
    Best,
    Wolf

    Not really; DVDs just aren't good enough for huge, progressive plasma TVs. You can certainly do a lot by keeping the bitrate high enough (but not high enough to cause problems), using a tripod, good lighting, good camera, and best settings. But it still is an interlaced, standard definition source. And of course, don't transcode to a different format when you don't have to; go from your source format to mpeg2.

Maybe you are looking for