Applet does not get client certificate from browser (Firefox, IE7)

I'm writing a web service which runs Tomcat through Apache. One critical requirement is that the service be able to invoke certain device drivers on the end user's machine. Fortunately, there is a Java API for this, so this requirement can be fulfilled using an applet.
Here's the problem. This is a B2B application, so we're using SSL and requiring client authentication. I'm no web security guru, but I managed to get SSL set up through Apache (with a self-signed certificate for now; we'll get a real one from a real CA when we're ready to go to production). I also managed to set up client authentication by creating my own CA and generating a client certificate, which I then copied to my test client (Win XPSP2) and imported into both Firefox (2.0.0.15) and IE (6.0.2900). The applet is signed with a real certificate, and that causes no problems. And all of the pages for my web service work as expected.
All except one. The page which is supposed to load the applet pops a dialog stating 'Identification required. Please select certificate to be used for authentication', and presents a list of zero certificates.
Actually, I get this dialog in Firefox on my XPSP2 box, and also when I test on a Vista Home Premium box running IE 7.0.6000. Puzzlingly, this behavior does NOT occur on my XPSP2 box when running through IE 6.0. It seems that with XPSP2 and IE 6.0, the JVM can manage to obtain the required client certificate from the browser and pass it along to Apache, but the JVM can't do this when running in Firefox or in IE 7.0 on Vista.
I have gone to the Java Control Panel and verified that the 'Use certificates and keys in browser keystore' option is selected on both boxes.
I've done a fair amount of research for this (including in this forum) and see that this appears to be a chronic difficulty with applets. What makes it worse is that I don't think I can use the standard workaround, which is to download the applet from a different host/virtual host, because the applet needs to communicate with the web service. Since we have the additional layer of Tomcat container-managed user authentication, the applet needs to be communicating with the server using the same session token as everything else.
So at this point, I'm stuck. Does anyone know a solution to this problem? Two thoughts (I'm reaching at straws here):
1) I have the certificate imported in both Firefox and IE as a 'personal' certificate. Is there someplace else I can put it so the JVM will know how to find it? A rather old thread in this forum mentioned something about setting properties in the Java Control Panel, but I see no place in the JCP to specify such properties, so I'm guessing that solution is no longer operative.
2) I'm using a trick I found on the internet to make the applet load cleanly with both Firefox and IE, namely, I'm using the <OBJECT> tag to specify the applet class and codebase for IE, and then using <COMMENT><EMBED ... /></COMMENT> within the <OBJECT> declaration to specify the information for Firefox. Is there some other way of doing the markup that will give the JVM a hint that it should get a certificate from the browser?
BTW . . . I would hate to drop support for Firefox, but if someone has an IE-only solution, I'll take it. Unfortunately, I reckon a Firefox-only solution would not fly.
Thanks all.

My applet is also signed by a valid certificate. The question of whether the applet is signed/self-signed/unsigned >isn't an issue --- I just wanted you to make sure the Applet runs because it is a know valid Java2 Applet that is 100% signed properly and verified to run.
This eliminates the possibility that it is a JVM issue. However after reading your message further I am afraid
it is not relevant to your issue.
due to the client authentication, my browser (Firefox, IE7) refuses to even download the applet.
I went to your site, and I can see your applet in both Firefox and IE6. However, I don't believe your site is set up >quite like mine, because it appears I can run your applet whether I have imported your X509 certificate or not. What I >did was:If that is true we are all dead :) No I think you just missed the cert in the IE databse. It doesn't have to be in the
Applet database to function. Surprise!
Check your IE/tools/internet options/content tab/certificates/trusted root certification authorities.
I then opened the Java control panel and verified that the certificate isn't listed there, either. So unless the certificate >is being cached/read from some other location (which could be, this certificate stuff is largely black magic to me), >then your server isn't requiring client authentication, either accidentally or by design.No HyperView is a valid java2 Applet and actually writes to a file "hyperview.dat" though it is probably empty.
If you click on a component in the view and then on the view and type "dumpgobs" it shoud write out some data about the current graphics objects so you can see it has complete read/write access..
Further it opens up a complete NIO server ands starts listening for connections on a random port
(Echoed in your java console) You can connect to it with telnet and watch impressive ping messages all day :)
This all goes back to a few years BTW back before there was a plugin and there was only Netscape & IE.
There are actually 2 certificate databases and what loads where depends on which type of cert you are using. Now self signed or not doesn't matter but what does matter is the type of certificate. IE: is it RSA/DSA/Sha1
etc. The Netscape DB was a Berkley DB and MS used whatever they use. The Cert is a DSA/Sha1 cert
which I like the best ATM as it (X fingers it stays so) always has worked.
Sadly that tidbit doesn't help you either I am afraid.
What I'm trying to do is require client authentication through Apache by including the following markup in a virtual >host definition:
SSLCACertificateFile D:/Certificates/ca.crt
SSLVerifyClient require
SSLVerifyDepth 1You got me there I avoid markup at all costs and only code in C java and assembler :)
Now unless I am wrong I think you are saying that you want the Applet to push the certificate to the server
automatically and I don't think this happens. Least I have never heard of this happening from an Applet automatically.
On my client machine, I have a certificate which was generated using OpenSSL and the ca.crt file listed. Testing >shows that the server is requiring a certificate from the client, and the web browser is always providing it.
The problem is that when the browser fires up the Java plugin to run an applet, there is not sufficient communication >between the browser and the plugin so that the plugin can obtain the certificate from the browser and provide it to >the server.
So the server refuses to send the applet bytecode to the JVM, and we're stuck.In terms of implementation ease I think you may have the cart before the horse because I think it would be far easier to run an Applet in the first place to do the authentication, and then send, for example, a jar file to bootstrap and run
(or some classes) in the event the connection is valid. Then again one never knows it all and there may be some classes which enables the plugin as you wish. I have never heard of this being done with the plugin the way you suggest.
I am thinking maybe there is another method of doing this I do not know.
Did you try pushing the cert via JavaScript/LIveConnect?? That way it could run before the Applet and do the authentication.
Maybe someone else has other ideas; did you try the security forum??
Sorry but I am afraid that is not much help.
I did snarf this tidbit which may have some relevance
The current fix for this bug in Mantis and 1.4.1_02 is using JSSE API, Here are the step:
In Java control panel, Advanced tab -> Java Runtime Parameters, specify:
-Djavax.net.ssl.keyStore=<name and path to client keystore file>
-Djavax.net.ssl.keyStorePassword=<password to access this client keystore file>
If it is a PKCS12 format keystore, specify:
-Djavax.net.ssl.keyStoreType=PKCS12
In our future JRE release 1.5, we will create our own client authentication keystore file for JPI and use that for client authentication, for detail info, please see RFE 4797512.
Dennis
Posted Date : 2005-07-28 19:55:50.0Good Luck!
Sincerely:
(T)
Edited by: tswain on 23-Jul-2008 10:07 AM

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