Audio interface for 24" iMac - conflict between firewire 400 and 800?

So, what I have now:
2.8ghz iMac, latest model, newest firmware, running OS 10.4.11, connected to an M-Audio Ozonic Firewire 400 interface, and I was hoping to run said interface while ALSO connecting a firewire 800 hard drive for samples, or for recording to.
Alas, as soon as I turn on the firewire 800 drive, a model sold by Other World Computing and containing an Oxford chipset, all audio stops on the Ozonic keyboard and is replaced by clicks and pops. The only way I've found to get the audio back is with a complete restart of the system, with the firewire 800 drive OFF.
For those of you who aren't familiar with the M-Audio device, it's a small keyboard and firewire audio interface in one unit. Perhaps not the highest quality, but my Powerbook G4 1.67 with firewire 800 CAN run both the Ozonic and the firewire 800 drive at the same time. With no interruption in sound playback.
I did some research and discovered that in the iMac I bought, the two firewire channels, 400 and 800, appear to be on the same PCI E bus, and perhaps will NEVER work together.
Is that right? I thought the whole point of firewire was how it's able to negotiate such communications and work seamlessly with other firewire devices. I know, I know, I'm living in dreamland, it's just sad that a much older Apple product (my PPC notebook), can do something a brand new model cannot. Sigh.
Any advice? Any chance 10.5 fixes this?
If not, should my next audio interface be USB 2.0? Any thoughts from the Audio pros out there (besides 'you bought the wrong machine) would be great.

Sorry I can't help with your specific query as I have never used that Audio hardware.
I am a video man myself and went for the 24" 2.8Ghz iMac as i believe the Firewire 400 and 800 Buses are seperate. I know on older iMacs and even the MacPro the FW800 and 400 buses were on the same bus and when connecting a firewire video camera to the FW400 bus, the 800 would lower it's speed to 400 to accomodate or in some cases would lose the connection all together.
I currently have a FW800 Hard drive connected to the FW800 port and a video deck in the FW400 port and they both run at full speed 800/400 respectively.
This leads me to believe Apple have fixed the Firewire sharing problem.
I know it's no help but just though I would share my experience with the Firewire on the new iMac.

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CONFLICT BETWEEN FIREWIRE 400 & 800 BUSSES***

Happy New Year all...
My 1.67 Ghz Powerbook's external Firewire 800 drive will not mount if I have a device plugged into it's Firewire 400 port (in this case it's an EyeTV 500 box).
Is the use of these ports supposed to be an "either-or" situation, where you should not use both at once?
I have had success in the past with using both at once, but not now.
- thanks for any help.
Ted.

Sorry I can't help with your specific query as I have never used that Audio hardware.
I am a video man myself and went for the 24" 2.8Ghz iMac as i believe the Firewire 400 and 800 Buses are seperate. I know on older iMacs and even the MacPro the FW800 and 400 buses were on the same bus and when connecting a firewire video camera to the FW400 bus, the 800 would lower it's speed to 400 to accomodate or in some cases would lose the connection all together.
I currently have a FW800 Hard drive connected to the FW800 port and a video deck in the FW400 port and they both run at full speed 800/400 respectively.
This leads me to believe Apple have fixed the Firewire sharing problem.
I know it's no help but just though I would share my experience with the Firewire on the new iMac.

Is firewire 400 and 800 on the same bus?

I have heard of the problems putting a camera and external hard drive on the same bus for capturing video. Does the 400 and 800 ports share the same bus and will using both with one connected to an external 800 drive and the 400 port for the camera be a good solution for capturing video?
Much appreciated.

yes, on PowerBooks w/1394a and 1394b ports, and on the G5's with 1394a and 1394b ports, they all share a common bus
sometimes if you have a lot of activity on the bus, you might have some frame drop out with a camera connected (but this is not a constant)
it never hurts to add a PCI card or cardbus card for PowerBooks and create a second FireWire channel that is independent of the builtin ports

Firewire 400 and 800 problem ? Need confirmation

OK, I have been running 2 external Lacie HD's over a USB hub into my MacBook Pro. A couple of weeks ago I decided that I needed more storage so purchased 2 Western Digital MyBook Pro's at 500GB.
I got these two specifically because I knew they supported Firewire 800 and wanted to take advantage of the high speed connection.
All is going well until yesterday.... Let me explain my set up. Firstly I am a DJ and use a Firewire Audiophile soundcard from M-Audio, this connects to the 400 port on my MacBook Pro, and the HD's connect to the 800... When I play music I get audio drop outs... I have looked through the forums and I am under the impression that both the 400 and 800 ports on my MacBook Pro run on the same connect, so is this the cause of the audio drop outs ?
I connect the 2 HD's via USB and have no problems, am I right in thinking that I have wasted good money on getting 2 HD's that I'm not going to be able to use the 800 port with ? When I run the audio through the internal soundcard I get no drop outs !
Also.... Just to annoy me even more I have a 20" cinema display so if I have use USB I decided to connect the two HD's to this and then to the MacBook Pro, now the problem here is when my MacBook Pro goes to sleep one of the HD's wakes up the MacBook Pro as it has been removed incorrectly ??? Do I now have a problem with one of my USB ports on the cinema screen also ????? I have put my iPod in the port and no problems ?
Does anyone know how I can solve these problems without having to spend even more money ?
And can someone confirm if the 400 and 800 ports are on the same connection, if so, whats the point ???
Thanks
- Neil

neil,
I wouldn't do that right away.. USB audio interfaces are usually at the more consumer end of the market, I don't think it's the best way to go just to solve your problem.
did you read the part in my post about PCexpress cards that give you a totally new and independent FW800 bus? seriously, I think this is your best bet. these cards first came out when the original series of MBP didn't have FW800 on them (only 400) much to the consternation of video pros.. so 3rd party vendors made a card solution. as I said, they aren't expensive, I would have thought around or under $100 US. connect one of those to your MBP's express slot and your problem is solved. you'll have a powerful, dedicated FW channel just for those FW800 drives you bought. then, your m-audio interface will be fine. and even if you still want to get rid of it and get a better interface, you won't be forced to go to USB which generally means opting for a lower end of the market interface.
also one other thing.. I don't know what your actual audio i/o needs are. but if you only ever work with stereo out and stereo in, ie, you never need more than 2 physical outputs and 2 physical inputs, then you have other options. the MBP (and in fact all macs) have optical digital audio built in. you can buy a 2in 2out digital to analog/analog to digital converter and connect it to the opticals. then, you'll never need to worry about FW or USB bandwidth ever again, nor will you ever need to think about drivers or compatibility or updates either.
on my MBP I use logic pro. and on this system, I only ever need a stereo out to hear what I'm working on with good quality.. and when I record actual audio tracks, it's only ever one source at a time, like a mic input or an instrument. so I do not need an interface at all, I use the opticals and I love it. I bought a mindprint trio, not the USB one, but the one that uses optical i/o. it just connects to the same connectors on the MBP that you would connect headphones or a mic, but obviously uses the digital optical signal not analog audio. it sounds really very good. the trio itself is a very handy little box that conveniently lets you do a lot of things to work comfortable when recording. and I just use built-in sound, no drivers needed ever, which is very much a rare relief in the audio world, believe me.
anyway, hope this helps. and seriously check out a card for FW800, in my opinion it's the best solution to your problem no matter which way you go.

Logic Pro 9.1.7 firewire 400 and 800 not working

I am having issues with Logic Pro 9.1.7 recognizing FW 400 and 800 connections, and/or my FW interface (mbox2 pro). When I open up LP I often do not hear any sound and have to reboot or reconnect FW cables, per another post suggestion with ProTools 9. After 30 minutes of restarting twice, unplugging / plugging in FW cables, turning off/on FW drives, it's finally up and running.
But the weird thing is that sometimes it opens up fine and other times it does not. I don't understand this variable, as my setup always remains the same.
I am guessing this is a Mac OS issue, but I'll list my setup in case anyone has any suggestions:
MacBook Pro OS 16.6.8
Mbox2 Pro interface (blue) - connected via FW 400
Firewire drives on both 400 and 800 connections
I realize this could be a host of issues other than Logic Pro 9, such as Audio Midi Setup (which often doesn't recognize my Mbox2 Pro). But again, thought I'd start here.
thanks

Hi
glankrudolph wrote:
I realize this could be a host of issues other than Logic Pro 9, such as Audio Midi Setup (which often doesn't recognize my Mbox2 Pro). But again, thought I'd start here.
If Audio MIDI Setup cannot see/recognise the MBox, then Logic will be unable to see it. Audio MIDI Setup is at OS level: if your MBox does not show up it is likely to be:
Driver issues (highly likely)
Cable Issues
FW socket issues: hardware fault.
CCT

Can You Daisy Chain Firewire 400 and 800 Mixed?

I would like to purchase an External Drive. I'm looking at a FW800. What I'm wondering is, Can I daisy chain devices mixed in.
I Want to run a FW800 Bilingual cable from my Powerbook to the External Enclosure. From the Ext. Enclosure, I'd like to have take my second FW800 port and take a cable that converts Firewire 800 to Firewire 400 and plug in another item. Is this possible?
Can I mix and match FW devices using separate protocol in a daisy chain configuration?

Russ,
Yes, it is possible. I have a drive that works on FW800, FW400, or USB2. Connected to the second FW800 port on that, I have an adaptor cable, a FW400 cable to a FW400 drive, and another FW400 drive connected to that . All 3 drives are on the desktop of my PowerBook. When I read your post, I had the only first drive connected to the iBook with USB2.
The only problem I've run into was trying to copy a 200G drive on FW800 to a 250G drive on the FW400 port on the PowerBook. Working overnight, it managed to copy ONE Gigabyte! I hooked them up as they are now, and copied the whole shebang in about 45 minutes
I picked up an empty drive case, 800/400/USB2 combo from OWC and a 250G Maxtor drive at CompUSA for about $100 less than I could get a 250 FW800 drive anyplace. http://www.macsales.com

Firewire 400 and 800 together

I have 2 external HD firewire:
120Gb Firewire 400 and 500Gb Firewire 800.
They work fine EXCEPT when I connect both HD to my PB.
I have to use 1 at a time, not together.
Do I have to do something to use them togheter?
Its both LaCie HD
PB G4 17" 1.67/1x1Gb/100Gb Mac OS X (10.4.8)

I tried once hooking a 400 drive into the 400 port, and an 800 drive into the 800 port, then transferring a big file between them. A 1.2 GB file finally stalled at about 10 hours. I then daisy chained the 400 into the 800, and the 800 to the PB, and that worked fine. I now frequently hook 4 of them, only 1 of which is 800, and as long as it is hooked thru the 800 to the PB, it works fine. If I unhook the 800, and plug the chain into the 400 port, that works fine. I don't have the right cables to go the other way, but that would slow down the 800. I can hook it in as 400 in the case of hooking it all up to my MacBookPro without FW800.

Does Target Disk Mode work between FireWire 400 and FireWire 800 ports?

Can I mount one as an external volume for the other Mac and vice versa? The one with FireWire 400 port runs on OS X 10.5, and FireWire 800 one has OS X 10.6 installed. If it works, I am thinking of buying an 800-400 adapter.

Can I mount one as an external volume for the other Mac and vice versa?
Yes.
(47103)

Firewire 400 and 800

I use my powerbook for digital video editting. I connected to dv camera to the firewire 400 port and connect an external hard drive to the firewire 800 port. Recently when doing this the device that is connected last does not show as being connected. If I connect the the hard drive first them imovie does not show a camera connected and likewise if I connect the camera first then the hard drive does not mount on the desktop. If anyone has any ideas on what I can do to get my firewire ports to work simultaneously please let me know.

I have the same issue and I thought the ADS unit or the Hard Drive was bad. If I disconnect the FW800 cable from the external HD, then repower the drive, it will boot and I can plug the FW800 back in and it will mount on the desktop.
FOUND A FIX!!!!
I found this in the knowledgebase:
Short Version to reset NVRAM and it fixed my boot issues with external FW800 HD.
Boot Mac while holding down the Apple-Option-O-F keys
at the prompt type:
RESET-NVRAM (press enter)
RESET-ALL (Press enter)
Then your mac will reboot.
After I did this, my drive mounts normally!
If you want the whole thread, search for "reset NVRAM".
Matt Caswell
Mesa, AZ

Firewire 400 and 800 won't work

Any trouble shooting tips I have a terabyte maxtor one touch. I've shut down unpludded all and started plugging in one at a time no luck. usb works fine.

Thought you could use this info about getting FireWire to work!
First, you should always Repair Permissions in Disk Utility before and after any update; I would do that now. If you installed your update with FireWire plugged in, your Mac may not recognize it anymore.
Try resetting your FireWire ports by disconnecting all FW devices, shut down your Mac and unplug it from AC power (wall socket) for 30 minutes. plug it back in and try FW.
If that didn't work, download the combo update from this site (yours may be corrupt), not Software Update, disconnect all firewire + USB devices except keyboard + mouse, Repair Permissions, re-install update, Repair Permissions again + try. Yours is the 10.4.10 Combo update ( PPC, not for Intel systems). Others reading, download the Combo that applies to your system.
If that still didn't get it Zap the PRAM. While restarting Mac hold down the following key combo Command-Option-P-R. Keep holding those keys down till you hear the second start-up chime, then release.
For those of you with Macs that are not PowerBooks or iBooks, a bad internal battery can cause FireWire to not be recognized, so make sure it's good! Also, here is Apple doc.#88338 on getting FireWire to work.
Here's another
Fw Faq.
 Cheers! DALE

Firewire 400 and 800 PCI Express Card Question

I just put in a Firewire 800 PCI Express card in my Mac Pro. If I add a Firewire 400 PCI Express card also to my Mac Pro will the 800 card work as in 400 speed due to the PCI Express 400 card being added to the Logic board?
Thanks!!
Sky..,

Each card operates independently.

How to tell if Firewire 400 or 800? In any OS and this laptop: Toshiba Satellite A350D - BA3.

Hello.
I was wondering how someone can tell the difference between Firewire 400 and 800 in their computer and in this model of Toshiba laptop: Toshiba Satellite A350D - BA3?
If a person looked in device manager or something would it say? With Usb it says Enhanced when it is usb2 compared to usb1. I don't know what usb3 says, I don't have it.
With firewire there is large sizes and small. On my laptop it is a mini firewire and it looks like a 4-pin inside. On the toshiba.ca site, in the product specs, it only says firewire.
I am planning on buying a cord that has a large connection on one end and a small connection size at the other end. Eg: Some cables for firewire are a 4-4pin, 6-4pin, 6-6pin, 9-4pin,9-6pin,9-9pin. There are also firewire 400 to 800 adapters. I'd like to buy the right cord for an external enclosure I bought to connect to the small laptop firewire port. The enclosure is a Vantec NexStar 3, 3.5" enclosure, usb2, eSATA, Firewire a/b. It has two firewire b ports in back, but an included cord converts b-a (the a is still to big for the laptop firewire).
Does anyone know if any of the mini ports are as fast as the larger ports? Will a 9-pin firewire 800 cable converting to a mini connection go at the mini connections speed if it is only firewire 400, I don't think it can force full F800 speed?
Thanks.

Hello.
I was wondering how someone can tell the difference between Firewire 400 and 800 in their computer and in this model of Toshiba laptop: Toshiba Satellite A350D - BA3?
If a person looked in device manager or something would it say? With Usb it says Enhanced when it is usb2 compared to usb1. I don't know what usb3 says, I don't have it.
With firewire there is large sizes and small. On my laptop it is a mini firewire and it looks like a 4-pin inside. On the toshiba.ca site, in the product specs, it only says firewire.
I am planning on buying a cord that has a large connection on one end and a small connection size at the other end. Eg: Some cables for firewire are a 4-4pin, 6-4pin, 6-6pin, 9-4pin,9-6pin,9-9pin. There are also firewire 400 to 800 adapters. I'd like to buy the right cord for an external enclosure I bought to connect to the small laptop firewire port. The enclosure is a Vantec NexStar 3, 3.5" enclosure, usb2, eSATA, Firewire a/b. It has two firewire b ports in back, but an included cord converts b-a (the a is still to big for the laptop firewire).
Does anyone know if any of the mini ports are as fast as the larger ports? Will a 9-pin firewire 800 cable converting to a mini connection go at the mini connections speed if it is only firewire 400, I don't think it can force full F800 speed?
Thanks.

Wanted: Multi-Channel Audio Interface for iMac & GB (USB)

I am looking for an affordable multi-channel audio interface for my iMac for use with Garageband. My goal is to playback old songs from my old computer (Atari ST) through my Yamaha gear and record the audio into GB so I can mix it. (READ: Not interested in transferring MIDI.)
My goal is to get at least 4 and ideally 6 channel/track recording in GB. I’m not sure if the multi-channel units I see, such as the Alesis MultiMix 4 or the Behringer Xenyx Q802USB send all channels to the Mac or if they mix it down to two channels first.
I’d prefer to mix all the channels in GB rather than pre-mix it. Also, I’d prefer to have 1/4” jacks; XLR would be a nice bonus. USB; since Firewire is going away and Thunderbolt is too new.
Any suggestions? I’m trying to keep this under $100. (Also, I know I can use multiple low-budget devices and aggregate them in Audio/Midi, but I do NOT want to go that route.)
Thanks.

As you imply, keeping it below $100 makes it tough.
Generally only the two channel interfaces are close to $100.
Check out Hang Times FAQ:
http://www.bulletsandbones.com/GB/Interfaces.html

Firewire 400 or 800 for External HD

Hello. I presently have an eMac and will be upgrading to an iMac early in 2008. I am looking at purchasing a Lacie Porsche Ext. Hd 500 GB which has FW400 on it. This will suit my eMac as it has a 400 port on it and I can use it now. My question is, will the FW400 be sufficient for the iMac or would I be better advised to try and get an External Drive with both 400 AND 800? Thanks for any comments or guidance.

No one knows at this point what ports the iMac will have in early 2008. Today, just the 24" iMac has a Firewire 800 port. The time you want Firewire 800 is when you need extra speed in data transfer between hard drive and computer. This is usually when you are doing video capture or something else where live access to extra space is essential. For backing up, you just save some time. But actual video playback will improve if playing off a Firewire 800 drive. You can always change the hard drive case on other external hard drives, but LaCie's are awfully difficult to take apart. To offer maximum flexibility find a drive that offers both Firewire 400 and 800, and you should be fine.

Firewire 400 or 800?

So, I just purchased a Samsung camcorder, but only came with USB cable. From what I read from this forum is that you need to have the firewire cable to import video from camcorder to Mac.
What exactly is the difference between Firewire 400 and Firewire 800? Is it only differed by the transfer rates? or perhaps usage?
So, what kind of firewire cable do I exactly need to connect my camcorder? It seems like there are various connector types and just don't know which one to get...
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?cid=103&cp_id=10301&cs_id=1030104&pid=328&seq=1&format=2
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?cid=103&cp_id=10301&cs_id=1030105&pid=3543&seq=1&format=2
Or just simply get the one on the apple site which costs $29?
Thanks.

The two ends of a 6-pin-to-4-pin FireWire cable look like this:
The big end (6-pin) goes into your Mac, and the small end (4-pin) generally goes into most amateur camcorders which have a FireWire connection. (Many PCs have a small, 4-pin socket instead of the larger 6-pin socket which you find on Macs.)
You don't say which Samsung camcorder you have. Generally, only camcorders which use DV tape have a FireWire connector. Camcorders which have a hard disc inside, or record onto chips, or onto something other than tape, generally have, instead, a USB connection, which is generally smaller and flatter than a FireWire socket, and often looks like this:
That will NOT carry video directly between a camcorder and iMovie, and is generally used for either (a) importing still pictures into a Mac, or (b) copying a video file from a camcorder onto a Mac, and then the video can afterwards - possibly after conversion into a different kind of format - be imported from the Mac's own hard disc into iMovie.
Note that I've never found it possible to import from a camcorder using a 9-pin-to-4-pin FireWire 800 cable ..which looks like this;
There's no advantage using FW 800 ..on a Mac which has a FireWire 800 connection.. because FireWire from a camcorder generally runs at only a quarter the possible full speed of FireWire 400 anyway, and it'll run no faster using FW800.

Audio interface for 24" iMac - conflict between firewire 400 and 800?

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