BUG: Software monitoring and playback levels

Have you ever thought your headphone monitoring level jumped up or down, for no apparent reason ? I think I may have found out why... try this:
1) Turn ON Software Monitoring. Independent Monitoring Level can be on or off, it doesn't matter. Take an audio track with active regions on it, arm that track for recording, and press play. Move the record fader up and down--it will adjust the level of the playback audio. All is good. Move this fader down around -20dB, so you can hear the track, but it's quiet.
2) Now, stop the transport, turn OFF Software Monitoring, and press play again. The track's playback level has not changed, which is fine. Move the record fader up and down--it doesn't do anything. Would be nice if that fader controlled the playback volume, but that's more of a feature request. Here comes the real bug...
3) Take the track out of record, then put it back in record. Press play: BOOM!, your playback level on that track has now jumped to 0dB. And there's no way to change it--regardless of the level set by the record and play faders, you're now monitoring at 0dB.
4) Turn ON Software Monitoring, and everything goes back to normal--the playback volume jumps back to the setting of the record fader. Now, turn OFF Software Monitoring, and your monitoring level will stay where you just put it UNTIL you take the track out of record. Next time you re-arm the track, it will jump back to 0dB.
Very weird, eh ?
As best I can tell, when Software Monitoring is OFF, the only way to change your playback monitoring level (for a track armed for recording--using auto-punch, etc.) is to turn Software Monitoring ON, then back OFF again. That will set your level to whatever the fader is showing. But once you take the track out of record, the level resets back to 0dB.
Assuming this isn't some bizarre corruption of my system, maybe we could get Apple's attention to fix this ?
And I think there may also be a related bug where the live input monitoring level jumps (regardless of visible fader position) while Software Monitoring is ON, but I can't reproduce it. Just thinking I've experienced that from time to time, too, and it's such a similar problem to this one...
-James

jnashguitar wrote:
And I think there may also be a related bug where the live input monitoring level jumps (regardless of visible fader position) while Software Monitoring is ON, but I can't reproduce it. Just thinking I've experienced that from time to time, too, and it's such a similar problem to this one...
This happens to me on a fairly regular basis. In my case, the input volume is always LOWER than the fader position.
I will be, say, recording an electric guitar part. Software monitoring on (I monitor thru Logic). The fader is at 0dB, and the guitar on input is a bit loud in the mix, but good for overdubbing a part. After a few passes, the level on input, or even while in record, will drop a good 3 or 4 dB. Hit stop, hit play, and the playback volume is loud again. Go into record, and it drops... the fader was never touched.
This is isn't every time I record, but common enough to not surprise me... It's definitely a bug

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I'm using items none of you have probably heard of: A HarmonyAudio Miglia firewire device. It has two analog inputs, firewire out, and a headphone jack. The inputs and headphone all have gain or volume controls. The two inputs come from a Behringer 8 channel mixing board's main outs. This mixer also has a headphone jack, control room outs and tape in/outs. It is a pretty nice board. I have a stereo amplifier and studio monitors for mixing. It seems like I could turn software monitoring off and listen via the Miglia headphone jack (or run it into the amplifier), but that does not work. When software monitoring is off, no sound comes from the Miglia.
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I thought this sounded familiar - then I saw your earlier thread:
http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=9832448#9832448
I searched for the Miglia manual to see what they offered for hardware .v. software monitoring, and they don't appear to have any additional software for audio routing, which seems very odd to me. Most interfaces come with a control panel/mixer application which allows you to turn off software monitoring and instead listen to your source direct, thereby latency-free.
Unless I'm missing something, short of buying another interface, you're left with only software monitoring as an option - what's your I/O buffer size set to in Logic? The smaller the better - too small and you'll get pops and crackles, but 64 or 128 should have low enough latency to be workable for you.

Monitoring and playback through Built-in Output

I've always used Nuendo on a separate PC for all my recording, editing, mixing tasks etc. but I wanted to migrate it all to MAC and Logic Pro.
If been fiddling around for a couple of days now and I have some problems setting up. I use a MOTU 8pre as an input-device connected through firewire to my MacBook Pro. I've been able to successfully record tracks but somehow I can't listen the recordings back. Which I want to do by using my MacBook Pro's Built-in Output (speakers or headphones plugged into the thing).
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RollingSlyStone wrote:
I've always used Nuendo on a separate PC for all my recording, editing, mixing tasks etc. but I wanted to migrate it all to MAC and Logic Pro.
If been fiddling around for a couple of days now and I have some problems setting up. I use a MOTU 8pre as an input-device connected through firewire to my MacBook Pro. I've been able to successfully record tracks but somehow I can't listen the recordings back. Which I want to do by using my MacBook Pro's Built-in Output (speakers or headphones plugged into the thing).
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http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1215
regards, Erik.

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Okay, my set up:
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Sorry for the lengthy post folks, but the good news is I solved it. It was obvious and I said it myself in my post - the mute button while recording and then no need for a mixer.
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Hi... thanks for your reply.
I don't really understand the flow through Logic and Orpheus but I'm sure that this has worked correctly with the default settings before... I have tried with "i" on and off and don't really understand what it does but it doesn't seem to make any difference.
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I don't understand the monitoring section of Orpheus and run it in default mode which is DAW and don't use the MIXER settings.
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Hi Guys,
Not sure if this is another Logic 9 bug or if I am just going crazy!
Often when recording tracking parts, I need to record three or four tracks at the same time. For example, today I was recording vocals, keyboard and bass.
I always monitor the vocals through Logic, so the singer has some reverb in real time. However, for zero latency monitoring on piano and bass, I would usually just monitor them straight through the mixer and not through Logic.
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yeloop wrote:
Hi Guys,
Not sure if this is another Logic 9 bug or if I am just going crazy!
Often when recording tracking parts, I need to record three or four tracks at the same time. For example, today I was recording vocals, keyboard and bass.
I always monitor the vocals through Logic, so the singer has some reverb in real time. However, for zero latency monitoring on piano and bass, I would usually just monitor them straight through the mixer and not through Logic.
To achieve this in Logic 8, I would press the "software monitoring" button (the green one beside the transport window). I'd also press the orange "Low latency mode" button to make sure the tracks that were software monitored would not have any latency.
That's not what Low Latency Mode does, it only bypasses high latency inducing plugins, there's a threshold setting in Logic. But that's not the problem...
Then I would select record for all tracks I was recording, and I would press the "i" button (orange button for input monitoring) for the tracks that I actually wanted to software monitor. Tracks with "i" pressed (usually just vocals) would monitor through Logic with effects, the rest would just be monitored through the mixer.
That's not how it works here (on version 8.02)
With software monitoring enabled any track in record mode is passed through Logic's audio engine. Input monitoring only works when a track is -not- record enabled. At least that's how it's working with my RME hardware.
Perhaps you're thinking of "Auto Input Monitoring", try adding that button to the transport bar and see if that's working the way you expect. Any tracks set to input monitoring and record will pass their signal thru Logic, tracks set to record only, will not. The sequencer has to be running so the vocalist wouldn't hear reverb until you actually start recording.
pancenter-

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Sound confusing?
OK I'm using a Firepod. If I disable software monitoring (to reduce latency) how do I monitor through the Firepod? I lost the manual so that's why I'm asking here.

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and beejay dont act like its uncommon for singers to use it while tracking.
In my experience, it's incredibly uncommon to use the software Autotune *while tracking*.
For exactly the reasons I described (and others).
Auto Tune doesnt have this problem...Logics autotune does...
Auto Tune absolutely has latency. It's how pitch detection works.
From the AutoTune manual:
"In order for Auto-Tune to automatically correct pitch, it must also detect the
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your eye-ball, it can see the repetition in a periodic sound within a few
cycles. This usually occurs before the sound has suffcient amplitude to be
heard. Used in combination with a slight delay (about 1 to 10 milliseconds),
the output pitch can be detected and corrected without artifacts in a seamless
and continuous fashion."
So you are always going to get some milliseconds of latency. Whether AutoTune is faster than Logic's I don't know and don't really care. This only matters if you are using software monitoring while tracking, and if you are doing this then you are also adding additional delays on the signal because of the round-trip buffer sizes and so on anyway.
What you are actually saying is that for you, the latency you get tracking through AutoTune is acceptable, and it is not acceptable when using Logic's pitch correction.
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BUG: Software monitoring and playback levels

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