CS5-CS6 Pantone Color Differences

Hey Everyone. Long time no see. Congratulations to Peter on getting even further forum kudos. At my current rate of forum visiting this is going to be mostly a fansite.
Anywho. I recently put in CS6 on all the machines here at work (commercial printer, 11 macs) and have been hearing quite a bit of mumbles and grumbles on the new color system for spots. This may be an easy fix.
On CS5 my Pantone Solid Coated colors have a completely different CMYK and LAB breakdown from what CS6 is stating. Not only do the colors break down different and have different LAB values, but they look really different. This wigs my sales critters out as well as the designers. They don't like their Reflex Blue looking purple. We have all of our output devices set to nail Reflex Blue, for example regardless of them being large format flatbed, inkjet rollfed, digital press, offset press.
I migrated my Pantone Solid Coated from CS5 and have all the color settings the same in terms of color management and am still getting the breakdown differences. This creates an issue for me with the devices that don't have a horribly great spot library and require CMYK breakdowns they take advantage of (whether naturally doing well with CMYK or doing trickery like Fiery CMYK to CMYK conversions to make the output devices play nice). Even the Pantone+ Reflex Blues don't match between CS5 and CS6.
This is just really confusing for me. We have several ink vendors and they don't use the Pantone+ system for their inks. I don't even know what ink vendors have embraced it. We work with ink vendors varying from #2 and #10 in terms of market dominance, so it isn't a question of us just working with Brand X ink vendors.
Any clues?
On a non color related note. Am I the only one who found the content collector and content placer tools to be indispensible tools? Every time I look down at the conveyer I say "oh conveyer, how did I live without you?" I unmapped copy and paste and ripped the option key off my keyboard.

I migrated my Pantone Solid Coated from CS5 and have all the color settings the same in terms of color management and am still getting the breakdown differences.
One thing that's different in CS6 is the solid ink libraries are now always Lab definitions. As far as I can tell unchecking the Ink Manger's Use Standard Lab Values for Spots never has any affect. Even if you load the older libraries the CMYK conversions from a solid ink color will be color managed and the CMYK values will change depending on the document's CMYK profile.
If you really need the legacy CMYK breakdowns you might have to use the old PANTONE solid to process.acb library, which is defined as process CMYK and uses the same CMYK builds as the older PANTONE solid coated library.

Similar Messages

CS5 changing pantone color at once

Hello to all,
I'll try to explain as best I can.
I created a logo in Illustrator CS5 made of several overlapping parts, all parts have the same Pantone color, but with different intensity (I'm not sure it's called intensity, is the bar, inside the Color Palette by which you can adjust the color from white to 100% of the Pantone color of your choice). What I'm looking for is a way to change the color of all the parts at once with another Pantone with a simple click, without having to manually adjust all the intensity of every single parts again. Now, when I try, all parts changes in the new Pantone color but all are at 100%. If i change only one part at a time the percentage of intensity is observed. I know that i can do it manualy, changing every single part, but i wonder if there is a faster way that i don't know.
I hope I was able to explain clearly
Thanks in advance for your help
Andrea

Thanks Larry!! You just saved my time
have a great day!

CS5 Solid Pantone Colors-Where are they?

I had an older Illustrator version (illustrator cs) for quite some time
so i just ran into this problem.
I don't know if something has changed in this version of illustrator.
I'm working on a logo and would like to use solid pantone colors,
but when i go into the swatches palette
there seems to be lots of different kinds of palettes but no mention of solid pantones, or trumatch
or other color systems i had become use to using previously.
can i import these from my earlier version of illustrator cs?
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Swatches Panel menu > Open Swatch Library > Color Books

Illustrator CS6 / CC and previous Pantone color books

Hi all, I've understood that Illustrator CS6 / CC has the new Pantone+ color books, those color books doesn't have CMYK values so the default of rIllustrator CS6 / CC is to use the Lab values when I add a Pantone swatches to my document. One of my customers, that is a print industry, need to have the old Pantone with CMYK values to maintain the same color rendition on old and continuative jobs. Adobe says that I can load the old Pantone color books from CS5 and change the swatches option so that Illustrator use the CMYK values: http://helpx.adobe.com/illustrator/kb/pantone-plus.html The problem is that this doesn't work for me and for my customer, even if I change the swatches option Illustrator continue to load only the Lab values from the older CS5 Pantone color books... anyone of you has a solution?

I am running into the same issue. Both links suggested did not work for me. In a document I created in CS4 (the old document) and opened in CC there is a square with the color Pantone 519U in which it converts to C:67% M:100% Y:30% K:10%. These are the numbers to be expected. If I copy the square that is 519U in the old document and paste it in the same old document the color remains the same.
I create a new document in CC (the new document). From the old document I copy the Pantone 519U square and paste it in the new document. The resulting square in the new document is a washed out purple. The new document square converts to C:57.27% M:68.83% Y:35.06% K:13.06%.
Again I followed Workaround 1 in the link. I obtained the old Pantone Libraries from my CS4 machine so it is not a library issue. I have also created a new Document Profile where I set the Spot Color to be "Use CMYK values from the manufacturer's process books". I am seeing the same problem before and after the workaround.

Pantone color changing from Ai CS5 to CC?

I opened up a file originally made in CS5. When I copied it over to a new document, now using CC - the pantone color switched. I'm in CMYK mode and the swatch still displays as Pantone 560 U in the swatch menu. Any ideas as to what is going on?

Rex,
There have been changes in CMYK representations of Pantone colours.
This has caused some inconvenience or worse, especially when working with different versions, or files from other versions.
Apart from that, possible differences in Color Management/Settings may cause differences.

CS5.5 Can't see Pantone Color Bridge libraries!

Hello there!
I am using Creative Suite CS5.5 Trial version for now on Windows 7 platform. For some reason I don't see Pantone Color Bridge libraries, only the old ones, but none of the Plus Series. I was able to see these colors on version 5, but not here. Can't see them on Photoshop, Illustrator or InDesign. I wonder if CS5.5 supports these colors. I even downloaded a plugin from Pantone and Pantone Color Manager, but with no luck. I contacted Pantone, but still waiting for a response. Any help would be much appreciated, thanks!
Aldo

Please post in the InDesign forum. This forum is for suite specific issues only.
Bob

CS5 - Color difference between Photoshop and other programs

I'm running CS5.5 student edition on a brand new Asus Q500A laptop running Windows 8. i7 processor and a UMA graphics card.
I do not have calibration software; I'm using Calibrize for the moment and colors appear fairly true when browsing after calibration.
My problem is that overall colors in Photoshop appear more saturated than those in regular browser windows, particularly reds. I set up my computer to run the Win8 photos app and my desktop with Photoshop simultaneously and the color difference was immediately noticeable. I did a quick screen grab to show the difference; the inset photo is the one viewed in Win8's photos app, and the background is the exact same photo open in Photoshop.
This is the second install of this program. I originally installed it on a Dell Inspiron with a DuoCore processor (way out of spec, I know - that's why I upgraded!) and I seem to remember having this issue then, too. I found a way to correct it, but I don't remember how I fixed it and Photoshop is no longer on that machine so I can't look over my settings.
I have not changed the color profile in Photoshop. When installed it chose North America General Purpose 2 as default and I've left it there. I experimented with the other color profiles and while the color tone in Photoshop changes, there is still a difference when the image is viewed in another program.
Any help is much appreciated - I can't trust the program to handle color properly right now and until I can, I'm dead in the water.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. When I view the image on another computer or my iPhone, the image views properly. It's my photography, from a tree in my back yard. I know how the image is supposed to look, and right now it doesn't look right in Photoshop.
On my previous machine, I am almost positive that it was saving as sRGB by default as well. I don't remember what color profile I was working in, but I know that I did not have a color profile/space error pop up on opening new images, nor do I have that problem on other images saved on that machine that I'm opening on the laptop.

Pantone Colors missing from swatch library CS5

Hi, I loaded the Pantone colors but am missing so many from the library! Even using the find tool they are not there. I read another forum but the link they suggested no longer works. I am using CS5.
Thanks so much
Ande S.

Have a look art this thread:
2040 Pantone colour

Incorrect Process builds Pantone Color tables in INDD CS6 and CC.

Why are the Pantone Color tables/libraries in INDD CS6 and CC giving the incorrect process builds?

I did just that in CS 5.5 and I received a different build. I got 100C,84.22M,41.89Y and 50.43K this is different than the builds I was getting before and matches neither.
If you want the legacy definitions you have to follow the directions in the link in Peter's #1 post—delete the new PANTONE + spot libraries, install the old libraries and uncheck Use Standard Lab Values for Spots.
They also provided their brand sheet and neither of these match the readings from Illustartor or InDesign.
If you don't want color managed conversions of spot colors Pantone now provides CMYK simulation libraries—PANTONE + Color Bridge. Those colors are process and will attempt to simulate solid spot colors but for one assumed press profile. Color Bridge builds are still different from the legacy CMYK builds.

Color difference between LR3 and CS5

Hi!
When I edit an image in Lightroom and then continue editing it in photoshop I see a major color difference.That also happens when I export an image from lightroom as a .jpg and then upload it to the web,colors look the same as in photoshop.Color space is set to sRGB in both PS and my monitor.
http://imgur.com/a/rxt1l

wooliudo wrote:
i'm asking it because it looks like your system's taking the wrong monitor profile, and it'll make a difference between color managed software like LR/PS, and unmanaged software like some browsers(IE before 9). And your PS color management setting seems wrong as well.
My suggestion is to try changing the working space to standard sRGB first and see if the difference disappears.
I changed it to standard sRGB and it's the same.
And as I said,the problem is not with photoshop,colors in PS are correct and they appear the same on the web but they are not displayed in lightroom correctly.
Also,B&W photos look more like sepia in LR.
http://imgur.com/a/r2Uyz
I should note that I had the same problem a few months ago and I solved it by changing color temperature in my monitor OSD from "warm" to sRGB but it's also sRGB now.
wooliudo wrote:
oh one more thing, make sure you haven't turn on "proof color" by mistake in PS. press ctrl+Y would toggle it.
It's off.

Pantone Color book (new colours) plugin into my Illustrator CS6 software.

I need to install the Pantone Colour Book plugin which has the new Pantone Color Bridge Colours. Where do I get it from, and how do I install it?

stelmo,
Maybe it is worth having a look at this recent thread:
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1263538?tstart=0

Pantone Color Changes

I have a series of Illustrator documents created over 2 - 3 years. They are artwork for labels of multiple sizes of the same product. It is important that the colour is consistent. In the period concerned I will have used CS5, CS5.5 and CS6.
I have just added to the range and the client came back to me saying that the "blue has changed”. Sure enough it has. When I compare, Pantone 652 on one it is darker than Pantone 652 on a newer one. Apparently it prints differently as well. When I copy and paste blue items from one document to another (either way) they change colour. In other words PMS 652 is not consistent from one document to another.
When I check the CMYK numbers on the two documents they are very different: 50/25/0/10 and 47/24/7/0.
I have read that Pantone wished to 'improve' some things, and I know I can change the colour book in CS6, or just work some projects in older Illustrator versions. But they all seem to me to be cumbersome work arounds. Surely Pantone 652 should always be Pantone 652.
What am I missing?

Dear Monika:
I wanted to clarify part of the issue here.
PANTONE 652 is a color that was added to the PANTONE MATCHING SYSTEM back in 1991, one of a palette of 'light, dirty shades' that was introduced at that time. As a solid ink, the color and formulation have not changed at all since the color was introduced.
What has changed over the years are the paper stock on which the colors are printed, as well as the CMYK simulation data contained first in the PANTONE solid to process guide, and later in PANTONE Color Bridge.
The current version of PANTONE COLOR BRIDGE, launched in May 2010 as part of the PANTONE PLUS SERIES, was re-engineered with a globally-compatible, G7-based workflow to produce a single version applicable worldwide, in replacement of the previous North American and European versions with separate workflow and CMYK values. This in part explains the change in CMYK data. However, in most cases, confusion about CMYK values occurs because users typically access the colors from the PANTONE solid color libraries, and 'convert' to CMYK which provides conversion data which vary from the explicit data contained within the PANTONE COLOR BRIDGE libraries. It should be noted that the PANTONE PLUS SERIES products include a license for PANTONE Color Manager, allowing users to update the digital PANTONE libraries within their Adobe applications with libraries consistent with the PANTONE PLUS SERIES products.
Best regards,
John Stanzione
Manager - Technical Support
Pantone, LLC

Pantone conversions to cmyk don't match pantone color bridge

We are having issues at our plant with adobe not converting colors properly. Program using to send to our rip for a di press is Indesign cs6, tried cs5.5 and get the same values.
Example pantone color is 293. We have the latest pantone + bridge and the color break down is 100c 69m 0y 4k but if you let adobe made all spots to process we get a value of 100c 80m 12y 3k.
Any idea what is causing the incorrect values or what I can update to use the correct values?
Thanks.

HI,
In order to get the best CMYK values from InDesign, set your CMYK working space (color settings or Assign ICC to your document) to your DI Press ICC profile.
This way, InDesign will convert from Pantone’s Lab valur to the presse ICC profile’s CMYK values.
CMYK numbers from Color Bridge + are made for european TVI (ISO standard), which is lower that North American standards.
Hope this help!

CS6 Pantone Plus Library Issues

We are having problems maintaining color consistency for digital output (as well as color shifts on proofs) due to the recent CS6 Pantone Plus color library update.
We have had to remove the updated libraries and replace them with the previous versions due to the unexpected color differences on output.
Has anyone else been having problems with the Plus update?
Is there a good explanation of why it was changed in the first place? We want to make sure we're not missing a good reason for the revised color libraries.
Chuck

Hi Guys,
I've read through this whole forum and I have found a solution to everyones problem. It is a work around but will save everyone alot of time and hassle and so far it hasn't let me down.
First step: Following the instructions as per the adobe page http://helpx.adobe.com/illustrator/kb/pantone-plus.htm for replacing the colour books. Make sure you follow all of the instructions for defaulting the setting in Illustrator CS6 to use only CMYK breakdowns (this is very very important) This will fix your problem in Illustrator however you will still notice that importing any artwork into indesign, the Pantone colours will still load as LAB versions (despite having deleted the Pantone+ swatches from your library)
NOTE: you will find that if you load old artwork files it WILL load your desired CMYK versions of any pantones correctly. However when you add new swatches it loads these as lab breakdowns. WHICH IS WHAT WE ALL WANT TO GO AWAY TO PROVIDE CONSISTENCY WITH PREVIOUS CLIENTS.
IMPORTANT INFO: Once a correct CMYK verions of a pantone has be imported into an Indesign document you CANNOT load the same pantone reference colour AGAIN. Meanding it is impossible to have a Pantone 282 C (CMYK) and Pantone 282 C (lab)... only one colour profile can be in a document. So basically if you pre-load all of the pantones as CMYK, Indesign is prohibited from STUPIDLY loading lab values of Pantones swatches:
SO.....
Step Two: (ensuring you have defaulted Illustrator in step1 correctly as per instructions from Adobe)... open Illutrator CS6. Create a new document. Click your swatches tab and clear it of all swatches so it is empty. Click OPEN SWATCH LIBRARY. click COLOUR BOOKS. Navigate to the swatch Library you require, (for me a mainly use PANTONE solid coated) NOT PANTONE+ ) however since you have followed the steps in step 1 these will not appear in your list as you have deleted all of the pantone + library. ( you can repeat this for as many colour books as required. When the swatched table opens, click the first swatch colour, hold shift key and the click the very last swatch colour and drag these into your swatch panel. Your will now have the complete colour book all defined as Pantone/spot colour/ with a correct(traditional) CMYK value. Now go to "save swatch library as ASE..."within the swatch dropdown menu. And save this somewhere permanent.
Step Three: Open Indesign CS6. Do not open a document. Go to your swatches tab. Click 'LOAD SWATCHES' and open your saved ASE file you made in Illustraor CS6. This will now load the full PANTONE colour library into your swatches tab. Remember as we said before that Indesign will NOT allow you to open two versions of the same pnatone reference, so no matter what file you open, as long as it has a pantone reference, lab or cmyk versions, because they are now already loaded into the swatch library, Indesign will force the conversion to ONLY BE CMYK values of your required Pantone references and IT WILL NOT default to lab values for Pantone colours.
If required. When you have finished your artwork, select, "select all unused" and then delete the ones you don't need.
WARNING: if you delete anything you have imported into your swatch library from your created ASE file... i.e. Pantone 282C.... when you manually add it back again inside Indesign it will default back to the undesired LAB breakdown of the Pantone.
Hopefully this cures a few headaches, so you can all get back to work and enjoy what are some great benefits of using CS6 versions.
On my final note, I do understand why Adobe is trying to force this change. It IS an improvement. However it does require that everyone in your company follows suit, it also requires that you explain this to each of your clients and it does mean changing colours and work flows, which is a decision of individual companies NOT the decision of Adobe to make it for you, which I think is a bad move on there part to try and FORCE this change.

Can I easily match Pantone colors using Illustrator?

Hi all,
I run a small invitation supply company.
Our primary design tool up until now has been Photoshop Elements.
We recently purchased a $6000 printer from Xerox which is the 'gold standard' for graphic arts and Pantone approved.
We also have a pantone color bridge. When I print a color using the hex code, the color looks NOTHING like the pantone swatch.
I contacted Xerox and they told me that because Elements has a very low degree of color management that we will never be able to easily color match our pantone swatches and that they aren't surprised the color is way off.
I suppose I naively figured that spending $6000 on a printer would get us easy and flawless color matching. Xerox says- not so.
They suggested investing in Illustrator and they are convinced that it will be much more likely to get us to the point that we want. Ultimately I want to be able to pick a color from the pantone deck, enter the code, and feel confident that the print will come out 100% the corresponding color.
Am I living a pipe dream?
I would like some feedback before proceeding.
On top of the financial investment, obviously there is a lot of time that my partner and I will have to spend learning Illustrator.
Any input would be great.
Thanks,
Aaron

Am I living a pipe dream?
Yes.
More precisely, you are just failing to understand the fundamental difference between spot color and process color.
I want to be able to pick a color from the pantone deck, enter the code, and feel confident that the print will come out 100% the corresponding color.
Not gonna happen, even if you do all the tedious color management setup you can.
The above assumes you are, in fact, talking about matching Pantone spot colors. (Pantone does not just publish spot color swatches, but that is the usual sense in which beginners refer to Pantone.)
A spot color is, by definition, an actual, physical, single ink which is loaded into a press. The only way to achieve your 100% pipedream is to load that actual, physical, single ink into your $6000 printer.
But that's how a printing press works, not how your $6000 printer works. It works by printing four "primary colors" of inks and then arranging tiny dots of them in proximity to each other in order to "trick" the eye into seeing them as a mixture of colors on the page in proportions which try to approximate the spot color as best it can.
But physical inks are simply not accurate enough to actually do that. There are many, many spot colors which simply cannot be replicated by mixing arrays of primary colors of inks. That's what all this "gamut" talk is about. That's one reason why spot color inks exist.
The Pantone spot color matching system is a means by which to consistently communicate proportional mixtures of actual, real, physical inks of known specific colors. All anyone (including Pantone) can do with the CMYK inks (or dyes) in a desktop printer is try to recommend percentages of those CMYK inks to best approximate a match to an actual, physical spot color ink.
It gets worse. Your monitor cannot actually match a spot color ink swatch, either. Your monitor glows. Ink doesn't. Even on tediously calibrated systems, there is more to perceived "color" than just numerical values of CMYK or RGB or HSL or Lab. There is chroma. There is reflectance. There is opacity. There is grain.
Then there's the whole matter of the incredibly context-sensitive adaptabability of human vision.
So if you are selling the output of your $6000 printer as the final product, you should not use Pantone spot color swatches as any kind of contract color specification, because your printer cannot actually print spot color inks. If you're doing color-critical work that the customer will refuse when specified colors don't match, you and your customer must specify colors which your device can actually produce.
JET

CS5-CS6 Pantone Color Differences

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