Develop Settings: jpg/xmp

Hello,
first off some background, that I would appreciate corrections on, if I understood something wrong.
a) Lightroom saves the settings it will apply to files in the database, but if the catagog option "Automatically write changes into XMP" is checked, LR will create a XMP file all files in which it stores the develop settings.
b) This setting applys to all files (raw, DNG, JPG, TIFF, PSD) unless the setting "Include Develop settings in metadata inside JPEG, TIFF and PSD files", in which case XMP files are not created for the named file-types, where the develop settings are saved into the metadata of the file itsself.
And now my problem:
I always have the "Automatically write changes into XMP" settings turned on, so that on a database corruption the develop settings are directly associated with the files and can be re-imported to another database. I have imported some 15000 files (60% raw, 40% jpeg) and have started to develop them. All raw files have a XMP file associated with them and modifications to Keywords and develop Settings lead to the XMP files being changed and the raw files remain unchanged. But... for JPEGs LR saves all changes into JPEGs according to the "Include Develop settings in metadata inside JPEG, TIFF and PSD files" setting, which was on for some reason or other. Since it would be so much easier for incremental backups if the JPGs were not modified and only XMPs were changed, I turned the "Include Develop settings in metadata inside JPEG, TIFF and PSD files" setting off. But nothing changed. Still no XMP files are appearing despite changes to the files.
Is there any way to force LR to move the develop settings from within the JPGs to external XMP files?
Thanks all!

inforumman,
Your questions:
a) Correct, but saving to XMP does NOT replace saving in the Lr catalog. Save to XMP is in addition to saving in the catalog.
b) The wording "saving the XMP" is a bit misleading, insofar as an XMP-file will be created only in case of Raw files, whereas with TIFFs, JPGs, PSDs the metadata (edits or other metadata) is written into (the header of) the image file - but NOT into the image pixels.
c) As LRuser24 already said, it is not possible to have Lr write an XMP-file for JPGs, or for TIFFs, or for PSDs.

Similar Messages

Are snapshots required to save develop settings to XMP?

Here's the scenario: I typically make my changes in post-processing such as contrast, exposure etc, in the develop settings. When I'm done, I create a snapshot called "done". I do this because I fear that without creating a snapshot, the develop settings might not be written into the XMP, so that if I ever have to recover those settings, (say if I transfer a photo to my laptop, and the corresponding XMP file), they'd be gone without a snapshot. Anyone know if this is true?

The way Lightroom works, your develop settings are saved to the database. Every time in the future that you return to a photo and go into Develop Module, your settings are there for you to see (and change). Your develop history and metadata is also there. You do not have to turn on any options in Lightroom for this to happen, it is automatic, and cannot be turned off.
Thus, there is no need to write your develop settings to xmp. You can if you want to, but this does not happen automatically. You can Ctrl-S to save your metadata (including develop settings) to the xmp. You can turn it on so writing the edit settings and other metadata happens automatically (Edit->Catalog Settings->Metadata, check Automatically Write Settings to XMP) When you save to XMP, your final edit settings are saved, but not the history of steps that you followed to arrive at the final edited position. The primary reason you would save to XMP is so that your metadata and edits can be read by other applications; however there are only a few programs that can read and interpret your edits that are stored in XMP (Lightroom, Photoshop, Photoshop Elements and Bridge); many other programs can read the metadata (like keywords and captions). If you are not interested in communicating with other programs, there is no need at all to save your metadata and edits to XMP.
Creating a snapshot does not cause anything to be written to XMP, and in fact if you choose to write your data to XMP, you do not need a snapshot to save your develop settings. Everything gets written without a snapshot, if you choose to write to XMP, and everything gets saved to the database without a snapshot being created.
In general, you do not need snapshots for the purpose you are using them for. Snapshots are an optional way of saving conditions along the way to your final edit.
Please read The Lightroom Starter Kit to learn more about how Lightroom operates, as quite honestly, you seem confused about how Lightroom works.

I have accidentally deleted a large number of develped images in Lightroom before I did a backup. I reimported the original raw files back into Lightroom hoping the develop settings would be re-established but no luck. Notice system mau have done an auto-

Question?
I have accidentally deleted a large number of develped images in Lightroom before I did a backup. I reimported the original raw files back into Lightroom hoping the develop settings would be re-established but no luck. Notice system mau have done an auto-backup as have an lrcat-journal file. Can I use this to restore my develop settings. I also have jpgs generated from all the deleted images.

Hello,
if you have a backup of your catalog you can do the following:
1. Backup your catalog first
2. Restore your backup catalog to some location
3. Open your current catalog and select "files->import from another catalog".
4. Select your backup catalog and your lost images. LR ask you if you want to overwrite the current settings or save them as a virtual copy.
As an alternativ you can open your backup catalog, select the "lost" images and save the development settings as xmp sidecar fiels (using ctrl-s). Then open your current catalog, seletct the images and use "Metadata->Read Metadata from files".

Include Develop settings in metadata have no effect

Hi.
I've just discovered that option in the "Catalog Settings -> Include Develop settings in metadata inside JPEG, TIFF and PSD files" have no effect.
I tested this with JPEG and TIFF inside LR 3.3 RC1, but it looks like this issue is present even in LR 2.x too.
No matter what you option is, develop settings are always included into the XMP.
I have exported the same image with this option on and off and they are binary equal except creation date in the XMP.
Develop settings are always there, no matter what you have selected in options.

This is sounding like normal behaviour. It should only apply when writing metadata back to original files.
The 'include Develop settings in XMP' checkbox dates back to the early days when ACR was just starting to be able to process rendered files. It was automatically opening any rendered files into the ACR dialog if there were Develop settings found in the metadata. The checkbox prevented those settings being written to those originals so that you could open directly into PS and bypass the dialog, and additional options have since been added to the Camera Raw preferences in Bridge/PS to allow you to use or ignore those settings too.
Once the files are being exported, there's a line in the metadata that says <crs:AlreadyApplied>True</crs:AlreadyApplied> which prevents those Develop settings being applied again.
If you want to exclude Develop settings from exported files, you can either check the 'minimize embedded metadata' checkbox in the Export dialog to remove all metadata, or use Jeffrey's Metadata Wrangler plug-in to specify which metadata to exclude.

Problem with JPGs Downlaoded with Nikon Transfer - Can't Apply Develop Settings in Bridge CS4 and ACR 5.3 Settings Don't Stick

I have found what I believe is a "problem" with JPGs downloaded using Nikon Transfer (ver 1.4.1) and processing same in Adobe Bridge CS4 (Develop Settings) and/or Adobe Camera Raw 5.3 (Photoshop CS4 and Elements 6 as hosts).
Anyone using these programs in their workflow?
The problem, quite simply, is that neither ACR settings (nor Bridge CS4 Develop Settings) "stick" when applied to JPGs that have been downloaded via Nikon Transfer ver 1.4.1.
The same images from the same cameras (D300 and D90), downloaded moments later using Nikon's predecessor software PictureProject work just fine in both Bridge and ACR. Develop Settings appled in Bridge immediately are seen, and JPGs opened in ACR, and settings applied, then "Done" immediately stick and are reflected in Bridge.
If someone else is processing their JPGs in this manner, please let me know, as I have reported the problem to both Nikon and Adobe, and although I have tested it on two different cameras and two differnt laptops, I would like to get an impartial result as well.
One other test, the problem does not seem to affect Nikon's RAW (NEF) format files downloaded from a D2x using Nikon Transfer. More/different test are forthcoming.
Thanks
jeff

ALoverofNikon wrote:
I have generally thought that using the camera manufacturer's software was the safest and most conveneint
Can't say one way or another on that statement about using manufacturers' software. Since Adobe has to interpret each camera models' RAW format having the latest ACR seems to be the best option. But if the manufacturers' software is more convenient, and you get the same results then use it. But it does appear you are not getting what you want, so suggest you try a duplicate test run with images straight from the card reader to Bridge and see if you still have same problems.
I do know it is widely recommended that using a quality card reader gives you more reliable data than getting the pictures straight from the camera. Does not seem intuitive, but that has been experience of many.

JPG - Export Settings to XMP?

When editing JPGs in ACR the adjustments are embedded and can be viewed in the EXIF Header (lines beginning with "crs"). But is there a way to export an XMP file from the JPG?
I see in the ACR option to "Export Settings to XMP" when opening a JPG, yet I cannot see where a file (if any) has been saved.
Does "Export Settings to XMP" create an xmp file somewhere when using ACR "Export Settings to XMP" with a JPG?
Thanks,
Russell

I just came across a workaround by searching this forum:
I can save a JPG as a DNG and then lock it. ACR adjustments are then saved as an XMP. That would work for my needs.
But my 1st question remains as to whether it can be done with a JPG. Locking a JPG does not work, an EXP file is not created and ACR refuses to save any edits on a Locked JPG.
Russell

Syncing develop settings results in some 0 byte .xmp files

I have had this happen numerous times... when I sync the develop settings across several hundred time lapse images some of .xmp files end up being empty (0 bytes) even though the develop settings are successfully saved in the LR catalog. Has anyone else experienced this?

Before digging too far, I need to understand what you're trying to achieve.
With the print settings you describe you are instructing the application to perform two conversions. The color chain is Document CMYK (FOGRA27) – Proof CMYK (ISO Uncoated) – Document CMYK (FOGRA27).
This is a little odd. Usually the final color space is a print device of some sort, not a press profile. This workflow you describe is a round trip of sorts. We are at FOGRA, convert to ISO, now back to FOGRA. That amounts to simulating one press condition using another press condition, which is rarely done because a press in not a proof device.
The Proof profile is the print condition you want to simulate. The Print profile is the device doing the simulation, which is often referred to as a proofing device (quite confusing but that's the way it is).
Photoshop Proof Setup has a Rendering Intent and BPC. InDesign Proof Setup does not.
In the Photoshop print dialog, there is a Simulate Black Ink option. The InDesign print dialog does not have this option.
There are two conversions on output. In Photoshop output, the first conversion is Document – Proof. The rendering and BPC options for this first conversion are based on Photoshop color settings. The second conversion is Proof - Printer. The Photoshop print dialog offers 3 options for this 2nd conversion:
1. Simulate Black Ink Off = Relative Colorimetric, Black Point Compensation On.
2. Simulate Black Ink On = Relative Colorimetric, Black Point Compensation Off
3. Paper Color On = Absolute Colorimetric
Please note the application color settings do not affect this conversion, just the first.
For the most accurate proof #3 is the best option. That is not saying that absolute colorimetric is ideal for file conversions. It is a rendering intent that is ideal for a proofing workflow, and the conversion to the print device (the 2nd conversion in the output you describe) is what is at the heart of the proofing workflow.

Importing development settings from JPG

Hello everyone,
I have a JPG file that I've created in Lightroom from a RAW file.
My computer has crashed at some point, and I lost everything, but I managed to save the original RAW file.
Is it possible to recover the development settings from the JPG file, in order to re-edit the orignal RAW file (so I could make changes right from where I left off)?
Thanks for all of your help in advance,
Dan

Hey Dannyboy,
Dannyboy103 wrote:
I typed exactly what you wrote when you suggested I use the exiftool.
Right. I since amended that on Phil Harvey's recommendation, but to be frank, I don't understand it all perfectly, so bear with me.
Dannyboy103 wrote:
To your question, if I have the same settings tools - the Temp starts with 0 and can move between -100 to +100.
This is what's known as "incremental temperature" adjustment, not raw (kelvin), i.e. standard baked rgb file (e.g. tiff, jpeg).
Dannyboy103 wrote:
The other profile calibrations are the same.
I assume you mean sliders. What's on the camera calibration profile drop-down menu?
Dannyboy103 wrote:
I noticed that when working on a dng file, there is a slight change in the calibration profiles (no "white or "highlights" and there is a "fill light" option. Maybe other changes, but haven't really taken a real close look at it).
fill light is for photos utilizing process version 2010 (or 2003), i.e. legacy process versions. whites & highlights are for PV2012 photos (current process version).
Dannyboy103 wrote:
Why do you think that having the lens correction option available is a bad thing?
Using profile-based lens corrections is a bad thing if baked rgb file (e.g. tiff, jpeg) already has lens corrections applied, or is cropped... Such is the reason Adobe does not support profile-based lens corrections for rgb files, only raw files.
I'm guessing you weren't actually using profile-based lens corrections on your tiff, right? e.g.
As I said, it is possible to finesse metadata such that raw (profile-based) lens corrections can be applied to rgb files, but one needs to be careful, since it could make things worse instead of better (e.g. applying lens corrections when already applied, or applying them wrongly due to crop). I thought at first this is what was happening to you, but I think now I was wrong - what do you think?
Rob

Do LR3.5 develop settings (xmp) transfer to LR4?

I subcontract a lot of event work. I'm still using an older MBP which is 32bit so I can't upgrade to LR4 yet which requires a 64bit processor.
The studio that contracts me is running LR4 and they don't seem to think that the develop settings I make in LR3.5 are transferring to LR4. Is this possible?
If so, what's the solution?
I'm thinking an easy work-around would be to export all the files as DNGs? This would automatically include all changes that I make wouldn't it?
Thanks,
Dennis

Yes, they are transferring to Lr4, although Lr4 has different develop tools than Lr 3.5.
Lr4 gives you a choice of updating an image to the Process Version (PV) 2012, or leave the image at PV 2010 (or even PV 2003).
When an image that has been developed in Lr 3.5 is opened in the Develop Module of Lr 4 an exclamation mark appears in the bottom right corner, see screen shot:
When you click on the exclamation mark you will be asked if you want to update this photo (or alternatively all photos in the filmstrip) to PV 2012.
If you do, the Develop Panel on the right side changes to the new version of Lr4. If you don't update the right panel presents itself in the same way it did in Lr 3.5.
I suspect that your studio did not click on the exclamation mark and did not update the image to PV 2012.
Having said that: It is by no means mandatory that you update an image to PV 2012. Some images benefit from it, with other images it will deteriorate the image. It should be decided for each image individually.
That goes only for images that have been developed in Lr 3.5. If you i mport new images in Lr4 you generally would choose PV 2012.

Develop Settings and DNG files...where is the info stored?

I just converted my Nikon NEF files to DNG. Previously I saved all changes I would make to my photos in the XMP sidecar files. I'm confused how things are working now because I thought those same changes would be saved to the DNG file.
Now that I use DNG files, when I make adjustments to the develop settings in LR, are those changes ONLY saved to the catalog? Or is there a way to save them into the DNG file so I can bring them to LR on another computer and see my changes? I feel like when I had XMP files before with my RAW files, the develop settings were saved there in addition to the catalog, so my changes came with me... Maybe I'm wrong though.

>Each of my RAW files also has a corresponding 10KB XMP file.
These are known as XMP sidecars and are applicable only to proprietary raw files (e.g. CR2, NEF, etc). Adobe have a policy of not writing anything back into a proprietary raw file (exception being date/time stamp) because the proprietary data tends to be undocumented. The XMP sidecar provides a safe documented means of storing the metadata corresponding to each proprietary raw file.
> I understood that the metadata is written to the file itself, but apparently only to DNG JPG and Tif files - right?
Correct
>So, if this is correct, then all metadata except that originally written by the camera is saved in the XMP file on RAW files?
For proprietary raw files the metadata is written into the XMP sidecar, but for the other formats you mention it's written "into" the XMP block of the actual file.
> Is the XMP file the information used by the Catalog? If I open a RAW image in Photoshop CS3 will the XMP information be read and applied when the file opens?
Yes to both questions

Some imported tifs given some RAW develop settings

For a long time I have processed files in other apps and imported the tif files into Lightroom for printing, slide shows and web galleries. Today I processed a group of files in Capture One 5, adjusted them in Photoshop CS4 and saved them as tifs. When imported to lightroom 2.5 many of them are displayed with very, very high contrast and brighter than they appeared in Photoshop. Some look fine. Most have adjustment layers, but that doesn't seem to make a difference, some with layers are displayed properly while others have look awful. What is happening is that is that Lightroom is applying the same brightness and contrast settings (50 and 20 respectively) to some of the Tifs as it would to RAW files, but only those two develop settings and only to about half the files. Clicking the reset button clears up the issue. Does anyone know why this is happening? The same this occurs to the same files in LR 3, but Photoshop, Aperture and Photo Mechanic display them properly.
Thanks in advance,
Peter

inforumman,
Your questions:
a) Correct, but saving to XMP does NOT replace saving in the Lr catalog. Save to XMP is in addition to saving in the catalog.
b) The wording "saving the XMP" is a bit misleading, insofar as an XMP-file will be created only in case of Raw files, whereas with TIFFs, JPGs, PSDs the metadata (edits or other metadata) is written into (the header of) the image file - but NOT into the image pixels.
c) As LRuser24 already said, it is not possible to have Lr write an XMP-file for JPGs, or for TIFFs, or for PSDs.

What happens when there is a conflict between develop settings stored in file metadata, and the catalog?

Hello,
Wondering if someone could quickly help me with understanding how develop settings are read back into lightroom... (I'm using lightroom 3.6) as I've just had a bit of a panic that my mis-understanding of the system might have screwed things up a bit!
As I do all my image tinkering on a laptop with a small disk, I am often archiving directories of images to an old server we have, and then just bringing them back onto my laptop whenever I need them again. I have a single lightroom catalog on my laptop, and I thought (I now think wrongly!) that all my develop settings updates were stored solely in the lightroom catalog on my laptop, and as long as I kept a copy of the original jpeg images knocking around somewhere so that I could restore them to my laptop when needed, that I could always get back to the most recently edited version of my images. Often I copied a directory of images from the server to the laptop, edited them with lightroom, then deleted the jpg files from the laptop thinking the originals left on the server would be sufficient to restore my work later.
However recently just before deleting a batch of jpgs from the laptop, I did a quick compare with the server and was horrified to realise that the files where different, and that changes *are* written to the jpeg files! Looking in lightroom I have the 'Include Develop settings in metadata inside JPEG [etc] files' turned on.
My questions would be:
1 - Have I lost work by effectively deleting the metadata from the jpeg files or is it also preserved in the catalog?
2 - What would happen if some develop settings for an image were stored in the catalog, and a completely different set of develop settings were stored in the file - which would take priority?
3 - Have I screwed up and if so is there anything I can do to minimise the damage? : {
Many thanks for any advice!!
Nicola

My questions would be:
1 - Have I lost work by effectively deleting the metadata from the jpeg files or is it also preserved in the catalog?
2 - What would happen if some develop settings for an image were stored in the catalog, and a completely different set of develop settings were stored in the file - which would take priority?
3 - Have I screwed up and if so is there anything I can do to minimise the damage? : {
1. Lightroom ALWAYS stores the edits in its catalog file.
2. Lightroom ALWAYS uses the edits in its catalog file. The information stored in the JPG is NEVER used to display the image in Lightroom.
3. As long as you don't eliminate the photo from the catalog, you are fine, your edits are present in the catalog file and Lightroom will use those to display the image.
As I do all my image tinkering on a laptop with a small disk, I am often archiving directories of images to an old server we have, and then just bringing them back onto my laptop whenever I need them again.
If you have moved the photos to the server, using Lightroom (or using Adobe Lightroom - Find moved or missing files and folders), there's no need to bring them back to your laptop. You can leave the photos on the server, and access them on the server, and everything works properly

Develop settings are not saved

Hello,
I'm working mainly with jpeg and psd files and trying to save all settings and metadata automatically to be able to use it from other applications (e.g.Bridge). The two catalog options "Include develop settings in metadata..." and "Automatically write changes to XMP" are activated.
However, Lightroom does not save the modifications that I made in the Develop module. All other metadata changes (ratings, title, IPTC, etc...) are saved and available in other applications. I'm using version 3.3 on 64bit Windows. I'm not 100% sure but as I recall I didn't have this problem with previous versions.
Is there any solution?
Thanks!

It's not clear what you actually expected. Outside of Lr or Camera Raw the only way that an image will be rendered as per your edits is if they had been exported (i.e. newly fully rendered version of JPEG or PSD). Simply saving the setting does nothing other than embed a bunch of metadata.

Camera Raw 6.7 won't save developer settings

I'm running Adobe CS 5 with Camera Raw 6.7 on a Windows Vista machine.
I have a Canon T3i that I shoot all of my Raw files from. Which Camera Raw 6.7 supports and have not had trouble in the past.
Recently everytime I've loaded the Raw files into a new project folder and begin to adjust the first Raw file, none of the develper settings are saved or the updated Raw file won't show anything on Bridge (The little triangle on top of the Raw file won't show on Bridge). The XMP file contains the adjustments but bridge and camera raw will not load the adjustments. I am not able to copy or paste settings from other previous Raw files either.
The weird part is that I am able to adjust Raw files and developer settings are properly saved in older folder created previously. This seems to happen everytime I start a new project and load the Raw files into it.
I've tried clearing out the Camera Raw cache, and export cache for that folder but nothing help. I've even tried rebooting. Only after a good amount of time has passed and I've tried to keep on clearing the cache does Camera Raw finally functions properly and saves the developer settings afterwards. It's very random and very annoying. I usually end up wating alot of time trying to get it to work and at times can get very frustrating when the projects needs to be completed.
Has anyone had similar issues with Camera Raw? Any solutions or work arounds? Or what's causing it, and how can I avoid it??
Any help would be greatly appreciated and would help me not loose too much sleep.

So after looking around in the forums I found the solution. Some other members had similar issues.
The issue stems from not having the correct time set on the camera. Here's the link to the forum post with more detail:
http://forums.adobe.com/message/4962247#4962247

Why do JPEG files with LR Develop settings open in Photoshop Camera Raw?

Why does an image that has been altered by Lightroom cause the RAW Converter to open when trying to view it in Photoshop. Perhaps this might help; if I import, enhance and convert a RAW image in Lightroom to a jepg image it will open in Photoshop without issue. However if I then alter the jpeg image in Lightroom, update the Metadata and try to view it in Photoshop it cause the Photoshop's RAW Converter to open. Is the alter image's information held in a side car file (xmp) that can'r be read by Photoshop? If so would I need to re-export, (convert), the image again in Lightroom to embedd the changes thus making sure it could be read by all the various programs that are available to view images. As is I send photographs to newspapers and print houses it is important for me to know if they would be receiving fully adjusted images or only the adjustments that were made prior to converting from RAW to jpeg. Just in case...I am new to Lightroom. Thanks in advance for any help.
Message title was edited by: Brett N

When you update the metadata for a JPEG, it is saved internally (there is no sidecar). Any JPEG with Camera Raw develop settings saved in its metadata will open in the Camera Raw plug-in in Photoshop. That is the only way for Photoshop to deal with the Camera Raw settings. Camera Raw settings can be added by the Develop module of Lightroom or from the Camera Raw plug-in dialog in Photoshop or Bridge. To prevent the file from opening in Camera Raw in Photoshop, you have to remove the develop settings and other metadata that ties the file to Camera Raw.

Develop Settings: jpg/xmp

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