'Ken Burns' - Piero's Filter

Piero's Filter was suggested on the Forum by Ian Brown in March.
I downloaded it to use for a recent family wedding where I had only taken digital stills. It was very easy to use but confess to being disappointed with the results after I had burnt the project to DVD. All the images had noticeably lost definition. I had to remove the filter from 2/3 group shots so their heads weren't chopped off and this only served to emphasise the difference in sharpness between those with the filter and those without.
Anyone else noticed this or should I be able to improve with some fiddling?
Thanks,
Tom.

Gentlemen,
I have just created a new test sequence. I selected four .jpg stills varying in size from 1-2.1MB. All were sharp and well exposed.
I added the four to the timeline and left them untouched in virginal state. I added them again and overlaid Piero's Filter (v1.1). I then added them a third time, put in a simple Cross Dissolve transition and then again added Piero's Filter and burnt a disc through iDVD.
At normal viewing distance their is no discernible difference in sharpness between the three sets of stills. Squatting three feet from the HDTV a slight raggedness is noticeable on edges on the filtered ones. I must emphasise this is only while straining my eyes and brain (both admittedly past their prime) and at a most unnatural distance from the screen.
Piero, it works fine and I am sorry to have suggested otherwise. Clearly I will not be reducing the sizes of my stills before importing to FCE in future.
Thank you gentlemen,
Tom.

Similar Messages

  • How do I get the Ken Burns Effect?

    How in FCE do I achieve the Ken Burns effect which I used a lot in iMovie '08?

    Hello Piero,
    Thank-you for your contribution. Your plug-in comes in very handy as I have decided to drop producing slideshows using iPhoto after it lost my slide show project. So many hours of work down the drain!
    Anyhow, here I am looking for the quickest way to get similar results using FCE and I find your plugin. As I am getting familiar with FCE I want ahead with a trial of your plugin. My only question at this stage is what could cause the pf folder not to show up in the Video generators? The pf folder does show in the Video filters but not the Genrator filter.
    I did follow your instructions with care at:
    http://web.mac.com/piero.fiorani/PieroFFCE_Effect/PluginsInstallation.html
    but still cannot figure out the cause.
    Thanks for your help,
    JM

  • Help! ken burns/ old zoom in zoom out option

    Hey any help is appreciated. I'm making a picture slideshow in imovie '09 and I'm not completely thrilled with having it fit to screen or the ken burns affect. Is there anyway to add a slight zoom in/ slight zoom out to the picture like there was in the old imovie? Please let me know any advice if you can i have to finish this movie by tomorrow! Thank you!

    You don't say if you are editing standard definition DV-NTSC or HD, but I guess you are talking SD - both for your sequence setting and your TV set.
    Some comments:
    - any picture of any resolution will be converted to the sequence resolution (720x480 in DV-NTSC) when you edit the picture to the timeline. This means that quality will necessarily degrade; this cannot be avoided, but this is true also for iMovie. Motion bu itself should not further degrade quality.
    - it's important how you export your movie for iDVD: use Export/QuickTime Movie (not Using QuickTime Conversion).
    - as Ian suggests you may try de-interlace filter or the blur filter
    - I suggest you to watch the movie on your TV set during editing: connect the TV to your Mac firewire port: use a D/A converter (bridge) converting firewire connection to analog connection; you may use also a camcorder with pass-through. This allows you to check the movie quality as it will appear when watching the DVD: most important for stills and color corrections.
    Note that the still in the viewer, before editing to the timeline, has the quality of the original still before its conversion to the sequence settings; so this is not meaningful.
    Piero
    Message was edited by: PieroF

  • Instant Ken Burns For YOU! ..... Or The Idle Thoughts Of An Idle Editor.

    Let's not beat around the bush ....... I am lazy!
    I have always admired the way, with a few simple clicks, you can transform a selection of your slides in iPhoto, into quite an impressive instant slideshow.
    One big advantage is the auto-Ken Burns effect, though on occasions it can pan something important out of the frame!
    Now for lazy people like me, there is the FCE equivalent ........ in the form of Piero's Ken Burns Filter which is called the "Auto Pan Zoom".
    It can be used in auto-default mode if you are like me, but can also be customised to give the exact effect you want.
    I have just done one of my infamous "One minute tests" and was quite impressed.
    I imported a random selection of photos and dragged them into the timeline along with the transition.
    I then selected them all and dropped the KB Filter onto them.
    Finally I de-interlaced them and added a bit of music.
    The whole experiment took less than 5 minutes.
    I don't claim it to be a prize-winning film but I think it shows how well Piero's filter can work for a slothful person like me!
    http://vimeo.com/3524283
    Download Piero's Filter: http://web.mac.com/piero.fiorani/PieroFFCE_Effect/Auto_PanZoom.html

    Very nice...
    The little jump you may have noticed during the fade-out during the end was recently fixed in Piero's newer version (I believe this to be the case).
    This is a life-saver for people like me who frequently make trip videos with hundreds of photos and don't want to spend the time keyframing every single one of them. Before I got FCE this year, I had been using iMovie HD ('06) to do the "Ken Burns" effect very nicely. However, this often took months to complete a project. I really want to use FCE for my next trip photo show, but am aware that individually keyframing each photo would probably take even more time than I could do it in iMovie.
    I realize this was not the purpose of this thread, but here is a question about importing photos into FCE. In iMovie, I experienced pretty decent quality just directly importing the pictures from iPhoto. However, reading through recent threads has given me the impression that importing stills into FCE is considerably more work.
    If I simply imported my stills from a folder on my desktop, would I experience similar quality to using them in iMovie HD? Or does the way FCE works make me have to go through more steps?
    And finally (as if I already haven't asked enough questions), how did you import your photos Ian? The quality in your creation is good enough for my purposes, and I am hoping that there is an easy and quick way to do what I want.

  • FCE4 and iDVD Anamorphic Ken Burns

    I created a 60min movie in iMovie8 using three media: 1) NTSC Anamorphic DV from a Panasonic PV-GS80, 2) JPEG 2816x2112 stills from a Panasonic DMC-FX3, and 3) 848x480 motion JPEG video from the DMC-FX3. An iMovie 8 project in 16:9 aspect was burned to DVD by iDVD and viewed on a 16:9 LCD TV with no problems encountered and pretty decent quality.
    However, frustrated by the lack of basic features in iMovie, I purchased FCE4 after speaking with an Apple rep at Best Buy who assured me that it could import iMovie8 projects. Although I was carrying a disc with my iMovie project, I wasn't allowed to verify this in the store. Unfortunately, Apple's claim that iMovie8 projects can be imported into FCE4 is grossly misleading at best. They say "With iMovie ’08, putting together a great movie is as quick as drag and drop. When you want to add professional polish to your project, simply export to Final Cut Express 4 and edit like a pro." In fact, contrary to the FCE4 manual, iMovie8 projects cannot simply be opened: Incompatible files. Apple tech support told me iMovie8 projects must first be exported as XML.
    The truth is that iMovie8 projects must be tediously recreated for FCE4 because it can't use MP3 audio files (must recapture from CD's), it doesn't recognize transitions (must recreate Ken Burns effects from scratch), and DV NTSC video clips are captured by iMovie8 at a mysteriously bloated 6.4 MBps rate rather than the 3.6MBps they should be (must recapture all DV). Apple must retract its claims or fix its products to enable upwards migration.
    Nevertheless, having recreated 10 minutes worth of movie in ten days of experimentation and reading most of FCE's 1152-page manual, I have yet to produce acceptable output from FCE. Besides the frustrating discrepancies between the manual and actual FCE4 operation, my biggest problems have been to maintain the 16:9 aspect in iDVD, and to render still images (with modest Ken Burns motion) with any semblance of quality in the final output.
    The FCE4 project settings are DV-NTSC Anamorphic 48KHz. Anamorphic video from the PV-GS80 is captured at 720x480pix, 29.97fps, DV/DVCPRO NTSC, 3.6MBps, 16-bit audio, NTSC pixels, Ana=Yes, Field=Lower (even). Stills are imported at 2816x2112pix, 29.97fps, Photo-JPEG, Square pix, Ana=No, Field=None. Motion JPEG is captured at 848x480pix, 30fps, Photo-JPEG, 1.6MBps, 8KHz x 8-bit audio, Square pix, Field=None.
    All these media appear correctly in 16:9 aspect within FCE4. However, unlike iMovie8, when FCE4 exports as QTMovie, the movie is not recognized as anamorphic by iDVD, so it is burned in a horizontally compressed 4:3 aspect. Why are there no options or controls when exporting as QTMovie, which seems to be the only way to avoid unnecessary processing and image degradation?
    Experimenting with FCE4's Export Using Quicktime Conversion, I was able to export the movie at 848x480, but at a huge cost in time for unnecessary transcoding and the resultant degradation in image quality.
    Experimenting with the Anamorphicizer third-party software that this BBS recommends to solve the incompatibility between FCE and iDVD, I found that the anamorphic aspect is recognized properly by iDVD, but still images are now unacceptably stretched horizontally. This seems like a poor solution to a simple problem of incompatibility within Apple's own products.
    Most recently I stumbled upon the observation that if a FCE4 sequence begins with a few frames of anamorphic DV from the Panasonic PV-GS80, this sequence can be exported as a QTMovie which iDVD will recognize as anamorphic, resulting in a DVD with the correct aspect. This doesn't always work, e.g. if the audio is removed from those few frames, or if their opacity is set to 0% to hide them. It reminds me of the Auto Conform feature in FCE4, but my Preference/Edit/AutoConform=Ask, and FCE4 has never asked. Furthermore, this works even if AutoConform=Never. Unfortunately, I don't want to start my movie with a DV clip but with a still, and this results in a 4:3 movie in iDVD. Furthermore, this "fix" doesn't seem to stick: after editing, the sequence can revert to 4:3 in iDVD for unknown reasons. I can find no mention of this behavior in the docs, and FCE4 shows no differences in properties between these sequences, so I don't know why it happens. Nevertheless, it seems preferable to Anamorphicizer, because still images are not stretched. Can anyone tell me why this happens so that I can control it predictably?
    My biggest remaining issue is that FCE4 renders still images with Ken Burns slow pans and zooms unacceptably poorly. First, some images but not others seem to have gross interlace distortion throughout the clip, as if the JPEG were interlaced. It seems like this problem develops after editing even for stills that once looked OK. Adding the Deinterlace filter merely softens the distorted images. Oddly enough, adding the Deinterlace filter or the Shift Fields filter and then deselecting it seems to fix the problem. I've tried changing the Field Dominance setting on stills from None, but no help. Since the original JPEG is progressive, this seems like an FCE bug. How can I avoid this distortion in the first place?
    Finally there is the issue that Ken Burns style pans and zooms create unacceptable aliasing and shimmering in the output, even if the motion is minimal. Easing zooms by changing Scale fast at first then slowing down doesn't help. Easing pans by changing in several steps (because the Center parameter can't have Bezier controls) makes the aliasing even more noticeable by changing the rate of shimmering in discrete steps. When still images contain significant detail and linear edges, there seems to be no level of Ken Burns motion that will result in a reasonable image on DVD. Why are these artifacts so much worse than with iMovie?
    As a newcomer to FCE4, I am very disappointed in Apple's failure to ensure a reasonable migration path from iMovie. Perhaps they have forgotten how the basic "bait and switch" strategy is supposed to work! I hope someone here can help more than two hours of hold time with Apple Tech Support helped me. I would be interested in any recommendations for other vendors' products that produce better results with less aggravation. If not, I am about ready to get my money back for FCE4!

    "This will explain what you can do about this..."
    I shouldn't be required to purchase QTPro just to fix the anamorphic bit in the movies exported by FCE, especially when iMovie8 sets the bit properly. Seems like an obvious FCE bug to me. Tom, any thoughts on why a segment with an anamorphic clip first is handled properly?
    "Where are you seeing the image degradation? Are you looking at the output on a video monitor?"
    I'm editing using a 21" ViewSonic LCD monitor, but then I burn DVD's to view on an LCD HDTV. The artifacts are apparent on both displays.
    " Changing anamorphic values after the material has been edited into the sequence will result in image stretching."
    I assume you mean setting the Anamorphic bit on my JPEG stills: I haven't done that. I'm saying that after using Anamorphicizer, some still images were definitely stretched horizontally. I created these by simply dragging a folder of JPEG images to the FCE browser. Other than setting the still duration default, I don't know what else I should do.
    "If you add motion to the images interlacing will be introduced. "
    I understand, but it is much worse on some images than others, so I'm trying to understand how I can minimize the ugliness of aliasing and shimmering. On some still images, FCE seems to me to have started with two mismatched frames, so that very exaggerated aliasing appears consistently throughout the clip, seemingly independent of the motion. I suspect data corruption in FCE, and I remember a warning in the manual about corruption being caused by copying sequences too many times, but can't find it now. Could this be my problem?
    I've also found that even though FCE claims to be a reference editor, not touching the original files, there is a problem with handling portrait versus landscape JPEGS. After importing JPEGs, sometimes the FCE image matches the file in the Finder, and sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't, I have found that if I rotate the Finder file, Save it, then Rotate it back and Save again, FCE will finally get its version rotated correctly. This never works by only changing the source file one time: I must do it twice.
    "If you're uncomfortable or unhappy with the application you might be better off using another one."
    I am mostly disappointed that FCE seems to be so out of sync with other Apple apps, and perhaps buggier than many. My guess is that iMovie and FCE are on a collision course instead of a rational product relationship. I would be happy for any recommendations, because I feel that the time I've invested in learning to use this seemingly overly embellished software may not have been well spent. On the other hand, if someone can correct my misunderstandings, I will be very grateful.

  • Wavy movement of Ken Burns

    I know similar issues have been brought up with the Ken Burns affect being choppy but I haven't seen anyone point out that they're seeing it as 'wavy'.
    What I see is that photos with contrasting lines in them (in this case, kitchen cabinets against walls) look like they're wavy when panning with the Ken Burns affect. Its almost nausiating.
    Is there ANY way to do away with this? It seems to be much worse once the video is transitioned to DVD using iDVD and played on either a computer or a TV.

    You problem is not the same as the link above described (i.e. the old iMovie bug which renders jaggy stills from _non-Ken Burnsed_ images).
    You applied Ken Burns so those images should be immune to THAT problem.
    I guess what you are seeing is suboptimal subpixel rendering with Ken Burns. Sometimes the images may by TOO sharp so they induce interlace flicker when viewed on a TV. This is caused by the fact that a thin and sharp 1-line vertical object is visible only half of the time and even a 2-line vertical object may seem to jump up and down on an interlaced TV (see interlace flicker):
    http://www.lurkertech.com/lg/fields/fields.html
    Some applications intentionally slightly blur images to reduce the flicker (Photo To Movie's higher quality setting, for example). Also in Toast Titanium 7 the output doesn't flicker.
    You can reduce interlace flicker on a TV with image editing applications. One nice approach is to slightly blur the input still image with 90° (vertical) Motion Blur (use 1 pixel value to PAL/NTSC 576/480 vertical input resolutions -- if the vertical resolution of the input still is larger you have to increase the filter's pixel value accordingly. For example: if the input still is 2048 x 1536, use 3 pixel value in the filter because 1536/576=2.7).
    The idea is to cut down on vertical resolution (excess of which causes interlace flicker on an interlaced TV) without compromising horizontal resolution. Another method is to apply a small Gaussian blur to the image. Just using a smaller resolution (640x480) in the input images also prevents flicker but the images may appear slightly fuzzy instead (and you really should not zoom into such low resolution image with Ken Burns).
    So: you might try Photo To Movie instead of Ken Burns and see if it is any better. AFAIR there is a Photo To Movie demo.

  • Ken Burns, De-Interlacing, FCE, iMovie and Adobe Premiere

    I've read countless articles, bought lynda training with Larry Jordan, pre-edited photos in Photoshop, done all kinds of experiments with filters and tried other movie editor packages. FCE with the Ken Burns effect is just very tricky and time consuming to make it look good.
    I took a single photo that I cannot get to look good using the ken burns effect in FCE and tried it in iMovie '09 and Adobe Premiere Pro CS5. With iMovie, it simple to do this effect. In Premiere I used the same keyframe principles I learned in FCE.
    I exported each of these to a Quicktime movie (self contained and I did not use Quicktime Converter) and then popped them into iDVD, burned a DVD and took it to the TV to compare. iMovie looked great. Premiere CS5 looked even better. FCE looks terrible. I tried every filter with various settings and nothing comes close to the other two.
    I get that the photo doesn't have the greatest resolution, it's a jpg and has artifacts but the other two applications had no issue with it and produced great looking video. Is it me or is it FCE? BTW, using version 4.0.1.

    Select your sequence (timeline).
    Go to sequence settings (command-zero or choose Sequence > Settings...)
    Find the Field Dominance menu, and set it to None.
    You can check your video quality by setting the Canvas to 100%.
    You should probably convert your images to .tiff or .png
    instead of .jpg. Here's a thread that goes into some detail:
    http://discussions.info.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=9816517

  • I get a "shimmer" on some photos after applying & rendering Ken Burns

    In a slideshow I'm attempting to make in iMovie, I'm getting a "shimmering" effect after applying the Ken Burns effect to photos I've imported from iPhoto. The shimmer appears most noticeable in shots of scenary, where there is a lot of detail like tree leaves or grass. (In addition, as many others also have noted and complained about, the resolution, and even the color, in iMovie is really a disappointment. This is especially distressing because the original digital photos I took are incredibly crisp and clear, with beautiful color, and the slideshows I made in iPhoto and played on my iMac are gorgeous!). The Ken Burns' "shimmer" & poor resolution in iMovie and burning slideshows onto a DVD seem hardly worth all the time & effort. This is a real shortcoming in the Apple software it seems to me. Apple needs to fix it in future updates to the Tiger operating system or in the forthcoming Leopard.

    MagneticMike,
    what you see is usually referred to as a 'Moire' pattern that is caused by high-contrast in your source material. This means that exactly the 'incredibly crisp and clear' advantage of your photo is ruining your clip. In photographs, moire problems are usually overcome by slightly softening (e.g gauss blurring) the offending areas before the final render pass. This you can apply to your source image as well, and then import it into iMovie.
    Interestingly, a different approach is possible with moving media. Since moire patterns are artificial noise introduced into your clip, people have found that our 'noise filter (combine)' plug-in can get rid of this. Perhaps you can download the plug-in and try if it helps with your problem.
    (please try this link: http://imovieplugins.com/plugs/noisefiltercombi.html )
    Hope this helps
    -ch
    Please Note:
    I work for cf/x, and may profit from posting here.

  • Shimmering of stills when using Ken Burns

    I know Ken Burns did not invent panning, zooming, and movement in stills, but I think everyone know what I’m referring to.
    I’m using FCP Studio 1, yes, it’s old and not supported by Apple any more, but it is more than enough for me.
    On the stills that I set the keyframes for movement, during the movement the faces of the individuals were blurry and the entire still seemed to shimmer.
    I have seen that in smaller amounts before, but this particular project there seemed to be much more.
    What am I doing wrong?
    Hank Kearns

    The flickering is an artifact of the interlaced nature of video. It is a result of very thin (often horizontal) elements that exist on one scanline as is common in text or titling. This can also be the case in scanned images with great deal of detail with high contrast.
    As the alternate fields play, the flashing element is essentially being turned on/off. The basic strategy is to get the element to exist over two scanlines so it is refreshed every time the field plays or to reduce the amount of contrast so the difference between ON and OFF is not noticeable.
    Things to try (In increasing order of image degradation)
    • (in FCP) field order>none
    • (in FCP or Photoshop) reduce whites by 10% - reduces overly bright areas
    • (in FCP) flicker filter - minimum
    • (in Photoshop) motion blur>vertical> .2 - .5 pixels - blurs vertically only
    • (In FCP or Photoshop) Gaussian blur> .2 - .5 pixels -blurs both horizontally as well as vertically
    • (in FCP or Photoshop) deinterlace - throws away half the image and is generally not appropriate on scanned images
    Remember: Unless you are viewing your work in the appropriate external NTSC/PAL monitor, you are playing blind. The computer monitor only shows you a proxy image.
    If you have slowed your material significantly, and have not used some sort of frame blending/optical flow processing, you may be simply duplicating frames to create the additional material to pad the playback. The flashing you see is the result of this.
    good luck.
    x

  • Ken burns effect w/ 16:9 problems

    I'm trying to do the ken burns effect with some photos, but every time i zoom-in i lose my 16:9 (widescreen) ratio. is there a way to correct this?
    thanks,
    matthew

    the widescreen effect on the photos is a matte video filter. is there a way to apply the widescreen effect to the entire sequence so that the black bars don't disappear when you zoom in on a photo?

  • Can you recommend any ken burns type photo plug in for fce?

    Hi,
    I have a big slide show to produce which I would like to do with FCE since I will be incorporating video also. One thing I love about iphoto is the ken burns effect, and was wondering if there are any ken burns type plug ins for FCE? I know you can do this with keyframes, but was hoping that I could a find a plugin that would be easier and faster to use.
    I have read older posts on this, but was wondering if there are any current plugins out there that people would recommend.
    Thanks!

    You could also try Piero's free Auto Pan Zoom plugin.
    You simply drop it on your timeline and all your slides will have a Ken Burns effect added instantly.
    You cannot control the effect very much, but as long as you are not particularly fussy it could be the answer to your problem.
    http://web.mac.com/piero.fiorani/PieroFFCE_Effect/Auto_PanZoom.html

  • How do I get rid of the Ken Burns effect on my photos

    I would like to get rid of the Ken Burns effect on my photos I addes to my video. How do I do that

    When you create a New Project and give it a name, the next thing you should always do is go to File>Project Properties and make sure in 'Initial Photo Placement you have selected either Fit or Crop. It seems the default setting is the Ken Burns annoyance.

  • Cannot get rid of Ken Burns effect on slideshow

    I have turned off Ken Burns effect when creating slideshow on my Mac Mini (the one that I share iPhoto libraries with Apple TV). I did the same in Apple TV.
    Still I have these funky effect that may fit some documehtaries, but is inappropriate to some other content... and one has to realize that (e.g. if you present photos from someones funeral you do not give some fancy effects to upset audience, right?)
    Isn't it a bug in software? Anyone had the same issue? Under what circumstances the checkboxes to turn it of in APPle TV and iPhoto are ignored by Apple TV?
    Thank you.

    I figured out how to do this.

  • Preview of Ken Burns effect doesn't work with some pictures

    I just recently installed a new graphics card (ATI Radeon 7500) on my Sawtooth, 1.2 GHz, so I could utilize the Ken Burns effect in imovie HD. It works but only partly. It works great but with some pictures the preview pane doesn't show the photo. What I see is a what looks like bad reception on an old TV (fuzzies and the picture is distorted so bad you can't even make it out). With other pictures the preview shows up fine. I'm sure I've loaded the drivers. What else can I do?

    Hi Tonyy13.
    I am presenting the same problem. I can set the Ken Burns' effect while I am with the pictures before placing them in the Clip or Timeframe viewer. After placing them there, if I try to edit the picture (either by right clicking and choosing -edit picture or by control clicking and doing the same, I ended up with a black background. If you change the setting in this black ackground and update this changes they will be effective. So, you can change the slide duration, and everything in the sliders but without an image.
    I was running System 10.3.9 and I thought this was the reason. Today, I went and bought Tiger but it didn't sove the problem. I do believe it is a bug in the program. According to Apple's Help and David Pogue's "The Missing Manual" this shouldn't happen.
    If you solve this problem reply to this posting. If I did I will reply to your posting. Thank You.

  • Preview of Ken Burns Effect is a black screen!!

    So, I am doing a movie for my parents, and I have 102 photos that I have loaded into IMovie. I loaded them in to the clips section, as I am not a huge fan of iPhoto personally. At first, no problems, but later, as I dragged photos into the playhead area, my photos wouldn't allow me to preview the Ken Burns Effect. I would drag them into the playhead, click on "Meda" button, and then select the Show Picture Settings button. The preview screen goes black as the effect scrolls through the process, disallowing me to see the preview. I have deleted the pictures from IMovie, re-inserted them, and started over (AAAARRRRRGGGGGG!), and it happened again.
    Any Ideas? Thanks for the help!
    Oh, and I have made no modifications to my machine (no new graphics card), and the pictures are all in .jpg format.

    Hi Tonyy13.
    I am presenting the same problem. I can set the Ken Burns' effect while I am with the pictures before placing them in the Clip or Timeframe viewer. After placing them there, if I try to edit the picture (either by right clicking and choosing -edit picture or by control clicking and doing the same, I ended up with a black background. If you change the setting in this black ackground and update this changes they will be effective. So, you can change the slide duration, and everything in the sliders but without an image.
    I was running System 10.3.9 and I thought this was the reason. Today, I went and bought Tiger but it didn't sove the problem. I do believe it is a bug in the program. According to Apple's Help and David Pogue's "The Missing Manual" this shouldn't happen.
    If you solve this problem reply to this posting. If I did I will reply to your posting. Thank You.

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