Mac Pro drive configuration/expansion advice for Time Machine

I have the following:
Mac Pro 1Tb internal drive (2 x 500Gb in software RAID, so 2 drive bays used, 2 free)
500Gb external drive (Formac XTR platinum - 2 x 250Gb in RAID)
I use SuperDuper to backup the internal to the external - I'm using about 440Gb on the internal and this fits on the external with about 10-20Gb spare. However, my usage of the internal drive is growing, and as Time Machine backups grow in size, my 500Gb external will very quickly lose the ability to go back in time and shortly afterwards run out of space for even a simple backup.
My options are:
1. Buy 2 500Gb IDE drives and upgrade the external to 1Tb - Cost about £140. If I put the redundant 250Gb drives in enclosures and sell them, net cost would come down to about £100
2. Buy single 750Gb SATA drive and install internally for TM backups - cost £110. Sell external drive and cost comes down to about £40
3. Buy 2 500Gb SATA drives and install inside Mac Pro for Time Machine - Cost about £130. Sell external and cost about £60
4. Buy single 1Tb SATA drive and install internally for TM backups - cost £200. Sell external and cost about £130
Pros & Cons
Option 1 - Con: Left with untidy external enclosure. Pro - 2 internal bays free for expansion.
Option 2 - Con: Less internal expansion, Pro: No untidy external box, can add another 750Gb drive when required
Option 3 - Con: No internal expansion. Pro: Ermmm, not sure.
Option 3 - Con: Most expensive. Pro: Longer time required before need to add another drive.
I know external drives are useful for off-site backups but I do have a 160Gb and a 320Gb external drives for that purpose (and for TM'ing my MacBook).
I think I've answered my own question - get a 750Gb SATA drive and stick it inside.
Regards,
Steve

I am in a similar situation. I have a 160gb for my boot/system drive and two 500gb for data, backed up to two other 500gb drives. Both 500gb drives are about 80% full and I bring in 50 or gig a week, paring it down quite a bit, then importing new photos and culling them out again. I may replace my 160 backup drive for my boot partition with a 750gig, but I don't see Time Machine being capable of backing up a 500 or 750gig drive that had several hundred gigs of current data and moves gig after gig onto and then out of the hard drive. I think Time Machine will be really great for many many people, and if it allows me to "roll back" my system to an earlier known-good point in time even better than my current method of using superduper when I feel my system is stable, then Time Machine will be great for me too, but I don't see how it's going to be usable for data backup for heavy professional photographic work or for video backup where large amounts of data are entered, deleted, entered again, deleted, etc etc. There isn't enough anectodal information on Time Machine to know what size is going to be really required, but I think most folks will be surprised at how much room is going to be needed - especially those that use their machines heavily. Mom and Dad who do nothing but a few emails and surfing the web will have no problem, Mac Pro users involved with grahics and video...not so easy I'm afraid. Time will tell.

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Mac Pro Drive Configuration - Home User

Hi all
I'm trying to determine the 'best' drive configuration for my needs... I'm not a pro-user (although, I do use DVDSP and Motion for some DVDs I make from EyeTV) and so I don't think I want to set up a RAID or anything like that... here's a little background
I was recently having my MP operate really slowly (in terms of disk paging) because of my boot drive (a Seagate ST3500630AS at 3.AAC) was
1) Rather full - < 100GB free - lesser impact, I think
2) Some directory corruption - drive stopped booting from diskarb error
I was able to resolve the issue by wiping out the drive and it's working much better now.... but the whole thing got me thinking about my config... I had pretty much just been 'slapping' drives in as I needed drive space (I have the shipping 250GB, my old 200GB Seagat, a new ST3500630AS and a FW800 500GB Maxtor)
I've been doing some reading and it seems that it's optimal to not have one's boot drive have anything but the OS (w VM swap files too, right) and Applications... it seems that the two best options are either a WD 'Raptor' (either 74GB or 150GB) or a Maxtor Maxline III to serve as the boot drive... I understand why the 'Raptor' is a better option (compared to my ST3500630AS - faster RPM) but why is the Maxtor (laying aside the firmware issue on the ST3500630AS)? Is it because the Maxtor's are supposed to be better at handling small files (the OS and the swap files are that, right?)? It seems to me that the 'Raptor' isn't the option I want to choose because I don't think I actually 'need' it... 74GB seems a little small to me (but perhaps not) while the 150GB seems a bit expensive when considering if I even 'need' the 'Raptor'
I'm anticipating that the Maxtor MaxLine III will be what I want to get for my boot drive... how would I want to back that up? Does it really matter if it's external? Someone had mentioned that you can do it to a disk image but then how do I boot off of that if I have an issue? Or is that just for the purpose of 'snapshotting' the system?
As I mentioned, I have the ST3500630AS and the external FW800 500GB Maxtor... they're a perfect match in size and I like having access to all of my home data on an external drive... that way if my MP dies (as my old G5s did), I can simply connect my FW drive to my old PBG4 and I'm up and running without a hitch... but I'm a little peeved about the whole firmware thing and the handicapped performance (is there anyway I can address this or should this drive be relegated to a backup status?)...
Another question - the Seagate's have the new perpendicular technology... it seems to me that people aren't that concerned about it - I thought it was supposed to be a really good thing?
What would people do in my shoes? If a solution needs more than one additional drive - I am game for ditching my smaller existing SATA drives.... Any and all suggestions would most appreciated...
Thanks!

The only real answer to your question is to do what you want. There is no such thing as an "optimal" configuration or "best" drive because what's optimal is dependent upon what you do and need. The best drive depends upon what you want from the drive.
The Raptors are very fast but also very expensive. About twice the cost of a Maxtor Maxline Pro. However, if you feel the need for speed on your startup drive, then the Raptor is what you want. If you would rather compromise between speed, storage space, and noise then the Maxtor is a good choice. However, Seagate purchased Maxtor some time ago. The Maxtor Maxline Pro drives are being phased out (in the 300 GB and larger sizes) so as not to compete with Seagate's line of products.
You can find useful benchmark tests on hard drives at http://www.barefeats.com/ and http://www.storagereview.com/.
Personally, I would configure the system in such a way that you have sufficient storage space on one or two separate drives that can be used to backup the rest of the system. As an example, in my system I use three 300 GB Maxtor Maxline Pros (this system was setup last September.) One drive is used as my main startup drive. The other two are configured as a mirrored RAID. I use the RAID as the backup for the main startup drive. The mirrored RAID provides both backup and redundancy for added data protection. I use backup software (Synchronize! Pro X) to perform automated backups on a daily, weekly (entire Users folder,) and monthly (entire drive) basis.
Of more importance than drive configuration is maintaining your system for optimal performance:
Kappy's Personal Suggestions for OS X Maintenance
For disk repairs use Disk Utility. For situations DU cannot handle the best third-party utilities are: Disk Warrior; DW only fixes problems with the disk directory, but most disk problems are caused by directory corruption; Disk Warrior 4.0 is now Intel Mac compatible. TechTool Pro provides additional repair options including file repair and recovery, system diagnostics, and disk defragmentation. TechTool Pro 4.5.2 is Intel Mac compatible; Drive Genius is similar to TechTool Pro in terms of the various repair services provided. The current version, 1.5.1, is Intel Mac compatible.
OS X performs certain maintenance functions that are scheduled to occur on a daily, weekly, or monthly period. The maintenance scripts run in the early AM only if the computer is turned on 24/7 (no sleep.) If this isn't the case, then an excellent solution is to download and install a shareware utility such as Macaroni, JAW PseudoAnacron, or Anacron that will automate the maintenance activity regardless of whether the computer is turned off or asleep.
OS X automatically defrags files less than 20 MBs in size, so unless you have a disk full of very large files there's little need for defragmenting the hard drive. As for virus protection there are few if any such animals affecting OS X. You can protect the computer easily using the freeware Open Source virus protection software ClamXAV. Personally I would avoid most commercial anti-virus software because of their potential for causing problems.
I would also recommend downloading the shareware utility TinkerTool System that you can use for periodic maintenance such as removing old logfiles and archives, clearing caches, etc.
For emergency repairs install the freeware utility Applejack. If you cannot start up in OS X, you may be able to start in single-user mode from which you can run Applejack to do a whole set of repair and maintenance routines from the commandline.
When you install any new system software or updates be sure to repair the hard drive and permissions beforehand. I also recommend booting into safe mode before doing system software updates.
Get an external Firewire drive at least equal in size to the internal hard drive and make (and maintain) a bootable clone/backup. You can make a bootable clone using the Restore option of Disk Utility. You can also make and maintain clones with good backup software. My personal recommendations are (order is not significant):
1. Retrospect Desktop (Commercial - not yet universal binary)
2. Synchronize! Pro X (Commercial)
3. Synk (Backup, Standard, or Pro)
4. Deja Vu (Shareware)
5. PsynchX 2.1.1 and RsyncX 2.1 (Freeware)
6. Carbon Copy Cloner (Freeware - 3.0 is a Universal Binary)
7. SuperDuper! (Commercial)
The following utilities can also be used for backup, but cannot create bootable clones:
1. Backup (requires a .Mac account with Apple both to get the software and to use it.)
2. Toast
3. Impression
4. arRSync
Apple's Backup is a full backup tool capable of also backing up across multiple media such as CD/DVD. However, it cannot create bootable backups. It is primarily an "archiving" utility as are the other two.
Impression and Toast are disk image based backups, only. Particularly useful if you need to backup to CD/DVD across multiple media.
Visit The XLab FAQs and read the FAQs on maintenance, optimization, virus protection, and backup and restore.
Additional suggestions will be found in Mac Maintenance Quick Assist.
Referenced software can be found at www.versiontracker.com and www.macupdate.com.

Verbatim disk drive historically used only for time machine backups. Recently i added some other media files to use some of available space without partitioning, the disc now refuses to mount in finder despite appearing in disk utility. Repair fails. HELP

Sorry to elaborate a bit more.
I have used time machine since owning my mac book pro with no issues. i keep the timemachine backups on an external hard drive made by Verbatim. This has not external power source.
Recently i decided to use up some of the available space on the external verbatim disk drive to store some movie files which were sitting on my macbook pro.
Therefore i created a new folder outside of the time machine backup folder and stored the movie files in there.
From then on Time machine failed... and a few days later i noticed it was not mounting in 'finder'
Therefore i used disk utility to see if it was recognising it. Which i was. However when i try to repair it the repair process fails.
In disk utility i am presented with 1 TB Samsung HN M10 which has a child called Verbatim HD.
The 1TB Samsung hardware appears fine, but the verbatim disk i am unable to fully verify and fix.
Does this mean i have lost all my back ups?
Have I lost all the media that i put on there?
Is there any way to fix this?
Any help would be appreciated.
didier07...

To summarize: You used an external Verbatim HD for your TM backups. Then, you stored some movie files on the "spare" space on the Verbatim drive. Now, Disk Utility isn't being recognized, and repair is disabled. Your home Samsung drive is working fine, but the Verbatim cannot be verified.
The problem, I believe, is that the external Verbatim drive wasn't partitioned. There should be two partitions: one for TM backups, the other for video. That way, you can perform backups, and still retain some space for video or somesuch.
Frankly, I don't know how to fix this except through the following. (1) Erase the Verbatim drive, (2) Create a new blank space and format it, (3) Make two partitions - one for backup, the other for video. (4) Run TM through one partition, but switch to the other for your videos. The better solution might be to have one dedicated drive (perhaps the Verbatim) for backups, and another dedicated drive for video backups; that way, you'll have plenty of space for expansion.
I hope someone will correct me if I'm incorrect, but I believe you've essentially lost your backups and media. I don't know how you can retrieve that clump of the now-undifferentiated data on the Verbatim drive. To retrieve any lost data, you're going to require another external drive that's larger in capacity, as well as data recovery software; don't expect encouraging results. If you're desperate, there are firms like Drive Savers that can offer a more comprehensive solution - at a cost.
Post if you have questions, or additional concerns!

Adding external hard drive to airport extreme for time machine error

Hello,
I recently bought an airport extreme that I wanted to combine with an external hard drive in order to do wireless time machine backups. I hooked this up and the hard drive shows up in the devices menu.
However, when time machine starts to backup, I get the following error:
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When my computer is connected directly to the hard drive, it works fine.
Any ideas on how to fix this?
Thank you.

It is important to understand that Apple does not support Time Machine backups to a drive at the USB port of the AirPort Extreme. So, that may be an issue here.
Despite this, users try it anyway. Some appear to be successful for a time, some partially successful, some can't get it to work at all.
Even if it does appear to work initially, corruption issues may occur down the line without warning. Having tried this myself as a test a few times, I can attest to that.
If you want to try this anyway, the two important things to check are.....
The drive must be formatted in Mac OS Extended (Journaled). Other formats will not work
You almost always need to use a powered USB hub...even if the hard drive has its own power supply....because the USB port is under powered on the AirPort Extreme
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Hi all,
I upgraded to Mountain Lion a while back and am running the latest Airport Utility. Here's the problem: I can't get Time Machine to work anymore with my USB Hard Drive attached to my Airport Extreme. Is this setup no longer possible under Mountain Lion? Do I have to buy a Time Capsule? For the last couple of years I've had two MacBooks backing up with no problem to the USB drive connected to the Airport Extreme. Any advice would be appreciated!
Thanks,
Chris

While you can do this as Kappy points out, there a few details that you might want to consider before you make the move.
1) Time Machine backups to a drive at the USB port of the AirPort Extreme are not supported by Apple. While this does seem to work for some users, others (like me) have difficulty with corruption issues. The bottom line is that this is not a reliable method to back up your important data....and, no support or help from Apple if you do have difficulties.
Reference this Apple Support Document to confirm:
"Time Machine can’t back up to an external disk connected to an AirPort Extreme......"
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=Mac/10.6/en/15139.html
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3) You might want to post in the iPhoto forum to ask if it is still an iPhoto requirement that only one user at a time can have iPhoto open with the shared library arrangement.

Hard drive to airport extreme for time machine and iPhoto library

Can I buy an external hard drive and connect to my airport extreme to be used to host my iPhoto library. Meaning that no mater what Mac I upload an image to iPhoto in, it is referencing the same library on an external drive.

While you can do this as Kappy points out, there a few details that you might want to consider before you make the move.
1) Time Machine backups to a drive at the USB port of the AirPort Extreme are not supported by Apple. While this does seem to work for some users, others (like me) have difficulty with corruption issues. The bottom line is that this is not a reliable method to back up your important data....and, no support or help from Apple if you do have difficulties.
Reference this Apple Support Document to confirm:
"Time Machine can’t back up to an external disk connected to an AirPort Extreme......"
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=Mac/10.6/en/15139.html
2) If you move the iPhoto library to the hard drive attached to the AirPort Extreme....your original or master library now resides on that disk.....and you have no backup for the library.....when, not if.....the drive has a problem.
3) You might want to post in the iPhoto forum to ask if it is still an iPhoto requirement that only one user at a time can have iPhoto open with the shared library arrangement.

Can i partition an external drive that im using for time machine? its not an actual apple TM....

I'd like to partition my drive to make a separate place just for itunes music , is this possible? if so, how ?
thanks!

tamckellar wrote:
im just trying to make a separate area on the ex drive that i use for tm, to store just my itunes library .
Not a good idea...If that drive fails (and they All do at some point in time) you will lose both your TM and iTunes Backups.
Invest in another EHD for iTunes.
Moving iTunes > http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1751
Also...
Have a look at these 2 Videos...
http://macmost.com/moving-your-itunes-library.html
http://macmost.com/moving-your-itunes-media-to-an-external-drive.html

What size external hard drive do i need for Time Machine

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Thank you.

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Best.

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Thank you Jon for your reply.
I forgot to mention that I am actually in the process of becoming a certified apple portable hardware technician. Just started going through the training program.
I've taken many Apple computers apart and replaced most everything in them. I had to replace my original hard drive from Apple a few months ago after it was having serious problems.
I am familiar with DiskWarrior and such programs. But that's just the thing. The Hard drive is coming back with no errors and is working fine when attached to the iBook externally via Firewire.
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Mac Pro drive configuration/expansion advice for Time Machine

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