Modifying Version Set and/or Stack Attributes

My Photoshop Elements (PSE) 5.0 catalog has many version sets and stacks.
Contrary to my expectation, I recently learned that that edits to the top photo's attributes (e.g. Date, Caption, Notes, Tags, etc.) did not translate through to the underlying photos of the associated version set or stack. As a consequence, subsequently moving a different photo to the top of a stack or version set can lead to loss (or at least displacement) of these important attributes.
Is there a way to get PSE to automatically copy attribute changes through to the underlying photos or at least to ask the user if (s)he wants edits to translate through the version set or stack? If this feature is not currently available, I think it would be a significant value-added enhancement to the product.

Users tend to use software differently and to have differing needs and preferences. Barb's point is valid in that, should Adobe provide the ability to assign attributes 'through' a version set or stack, the feature would warrant a user prompt or preference setting to acomodate user's differing needs and preference.
Exceptional software, like PSE, anticipates and supports user needs in an efficient and predictable manner. Version sets, almost by definition, can be expected to have the same date, time, tags, captions and notes. Stacks - perhaps to a lesser degree.
Forcing users to perform tasks in a specified sequence (e.g. adjusting attributes before version sets or stack generation), or to expand stacks or version sets to assign attributes through to underlying photos, seems unnecessarily tedious and inconvenient. For instance, expanding version sets and stacks forces users to aboard current search criteria.
Anyone who has imported large batches of scanned negatives or slides which contain no meaningful metadata (with PSE set to auto-correct red-eye and to recommend stacks) knows how easy it is to generate version sets and stacks BEFORE the user begins the process of attribute assignment or correction.

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Roles Setting and Removing Resource Attributes

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Thanks!

Hi,
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Understanding Version Sets, Stacks, Picks, & Album Picks

Aperture's documentation is very good in most respects (adjustments being the major exception), but I found it very difficult to put my head around the whole version set / stacks / picks / album picks thingy.
While working on some images this morning, it all became clear.
1. Version Sets vs. Stacks
A Version Set is a single Master image with two or more Versions.
Version Sets have a light gray border around the contained images, and a single dark gray border around all those images in the Version Set.
A Stack is a collection of versions that do not use the same Master.
A Stack can contain single Versions or Version Sets (and Version Sets remain grouped within a Stack: you'll see a light gray border around the Version Sets and a dark gray border around everything in the Stack).
If you Stack two or more Version Sets, and then choose the Unstack command, all the Versions become separated--even if they share the same Master (i.e., UnStacking a Stack does not result in Version Sets, as you might expect--instead, it results in all individual Versions).
You can re-Stack these separated Versions that share the same Master, and you'll get a Version Set (light gray border surrounded by dark gray border) automatically (which is good, since there is no Create Version Set command).
From all these results, it appears that a Version Set is simply a Stack where each Version shares the same Master. It is different from other Stacks in that these Versions have a common light gray border.
2. Picks vs. Album Picks
Create an Album and add two separate images (i.e., two Versions with different Masters). Call it Album1.
Duplicate the Album. Call it Album2.
In Album1, create 3 different cropped versions of image1 (so you can tell the Versions apart). Likewise, create 2 different cropped versions of image2. You should now have 2 Version Sets in each album.
To help keep track of which Version is the pick, press 'T' to turn on image overlays so you can see the Version Title when you pause your mouse over an image.
Click on the number in the top left corner of each Version set to condense them. Notice that the left-most image (the Pick) is the image you se in the condensed Version Set. The same image will appear in Album1 and Album2.
Open the Version Set again, and click on the right-most image, then click the Pick button on the top toolbar (not the Album Pick button; the Pick button). Notice the rightmost image physically moves to the leftmost position. Close the Version Set and notice that this Version is now the one that displays when the Version Set is condensed.
Go into Album2 and condense the Version Set there, too. Notice that the same Version as in Album1 is the Pick. That's because we have not selected an Album Pick yet. The default Pick is the Pick for all albums until you pick an Album Pick for one or more albums.
While in Album2, open the first Version Set and select the right-most image in the Version Set. Now click the Set Album Pick button on the top toolbar. Notice no images move this time (compare that to clicking the Pick button on the toolbar). Instead, a black checkmark in a gray circle appears over the image. This means this Version is the Album Pick. Collapse this Version Set in Album2, and notice that the Album Pick image is what shows in the condensed Version Set. Now go back to Album1, and you'll notice there is no checkmark on any images. Collapse the first Version Set, and you'll see the left-most image (the default Pick) is the image that shows up on the collapsed Version Set. If you wanted to, you could open up the Version Set, select the middle image and click the Set Album Pick button, and the middle image would represent the Version Set in Album1, while the 3rd image would represent the Version Set in Album2. Version Sets can have no Album Picks, in which case the default Pick (the leftmost image) is what is selected for a collapsed Version Set.
OK, let's have some real fun now! Select the first Version Set, then command-click on the second Version Set to select both Version Sets. Now right-click (or control-click) on one of the images and select Stack. Both Version Sets should be combined into a single Stack, but you should still be able to see the light gray border around the two Version Sets within the Stack.
Click outside the Stack to deselect all the Versions. Now click on the left-most Version in the right-most Version Set. Click the Pick button on the top toolbar. Notice the entire right-most Version Set moves to the left to become the (default) Pick! Press command-Z to undo your change.
Now click on the right-most Version in the right-most Version set. Click the Pick button on the top toolbar. Notice that, not only does the entire right-most Version Set move to the left, but also the rightmost Version moves to the left-most position within the Version Set! You're not only telling Aperture to make the second Version Set the Pick for this Stack, you're also telling it that the right-most Version within that Version Set is the Pick for the Stack.
Play around with setting the Album Pick within each Stack and comparing Album1 with Album2 when you collapse the Stack.
This is a fun exercise that can really help you understand the difference (and similarities) between Version Sets, Stacks, (default) Picks, and Album Picks.
Please correct anything that I'm misunderstanding, or feel free to add anything you've found out about these topics.

Aperture's documentation is very good in most
respects (adjustments being the major exception), but
I found it very difficult to put my head around the
whole version set / stacks / picks / album picks
thingy.
While working on some images this morning, it all
became clear.
<...>
I thank you for the clarification on those matters, while I have used stacks quite a bit I have not yet explored in full detail the Version Set concept (though I had a rough idea of what it did). That was a great job of investigation.
To help bring a similar level of understanding to others regarding the Aperture adjustment tools (which as you note are not well documented), I have published an Adjustment Tool Guide (2 MB PDF) that covers all of the Aperture adjustments - you can find it at:
http://www.InsideAperture.com
Just follow the Adjustment Tool Guide links.

I can't get the version sets to save in the stack!

I have been using Photoshop Elements 5.0. I had been editing my photos and saving
them as a version set. After about doing 6 photos, all of a sudden
they won't save in the version set...stacked on top. The edited version seems to save in a different
file but not in my organizer. I didn't think I had changed anything.
I am using windows XP and the box is checked as to save as version set, and I get all the other screens describing what a version set is, but it isn't in the organizer when I go back to it.
Help?

Unless you have changed the OS the “save as” command should continue to operate..?
What have you changed recently?

How do I open up collapsed version sets in Photoshop Elements 13?

How do you open up collapsed version sets in Photoshop 13?

Switch from the new thumbnail display to the old one, which shows the file names and details. Your version set and stack icons will appear like before. Shortcut Ctrl D /Cmd D.

Version sets are gone....!!

Hi there!
My computer just crashed last week - apparently got a nasty virus infection that went through the firewall. Consequently I had to reformat the hard drive and reinstall the whole system (Windows 7). Of course I had a back-up of all my pictures so this is not a problem. The pain is that I have to reinstall all the softwares...! Today I reinstalled Photoshop Element 8 from the installation CD I have and directly after I imported all pictures again in the organizer. Everything went fine though of course it took some time as I have many pictures. The problem now is that all my Version Sets that I had have disappeared!! Pictures belonging to the same Version Set are there but they are not included in a Version Set anymore. I use to have Version Sets for different formats of the same pictures, for instance jpg, PSD and NEF, as it is very helpful. This is very annoying as I had plenty of these Version Sets and they were helping me big time in my work flow.
Do you know if there is a way to get them back? I would me the most thankful if you could help me on that one!
All the very best

Leunammeod wrote:.I guess that I’ll have to recreate manually my version sets. Is there a smooth and “less” painful way to do it in Element 8?
.You can't recreate version sets, they are only created when you save an edited file ; but you can create stacks, either manually, or by using the help of the 'automatically suggest photo stacks' feature based on visual similarity.
The integrated backup/restore you’re mentioning is the one included in the file menu of the organizer (Ctrl+B) isn’t it?
Yes.
Actually all my hard drives are pretty full but I do recall (I may be wrong) that Adobe was offering (free of charge or not?) the possibility of having an online backup. Is this backup compatible with the integrated backup/restore process or does it work differently? For instance does it allow me to backup catalogs too?
Adobe did offer the photoshop.com service (not for european users...) for such online backup, but this is being replaced by Revel. I don't use those, so I'll let more competent users comment about this possibility. Online backup for big catalogs of images seems to me problematic due do transfer speed.
I looked for the catalog as you told me (help menu/System info) and it seems to be a folder containing several files. If I want to make a backup of my catalog manually (via Windows explorer) do I have to save the whole folder or just the PS8DB file included there? How do I restore catalogs if I choose this option?
Yes, it's quick and easy to copy the catalog folder manually, or you can include that folder in your external backup software scheme. If you restore both the catalog and the image files in the original location, no problem. You can even move or restore the catalog folder manually : if you double click the file catalog.tly in that folder, that will work as well. The content of the catalog (a 'list' to simplify) is always valid even if the catalog is moved. The advantage of the integrated backup is that it can update the contents of the catalog even if the original file tree is restored on another drive or master folder. Suppose you want to restore all your files to a new drive : the catalog copy would hold the old picture files location and would show all of them missing. You'd have to use a 'reconnect' function to update the catalog (never easy !).
Is the metadata you're talking about equivalent to the XMP sidecar file?
Yes, the xmp sidecar file system is used to store that same information for file formats which do not support writing that info in the metadata section of the file itself : especially for raw files, whereas jpegs can hold that information.

Moving originals from Version Sets offline

Everything is working fine, but wanted to find out if there was an easier way to select just the originals from each version set to move them off-line? I now have more than 10,000 version sets in my V6 catalog! The idea of expanding all the sets and manually selecting the originals is a bit daunting. At the same time, I don't want to move everything off-line, nor loose the originals by flattening the sets.
I'm contemplating, duplicating my catalog with one catalog totally off-line and then flattening the version sets in the second catalog. Is there any easier ways?
Thanks

Unfortunately, Adobe changed the way version sets and stacks are displayed in search results in PSE 6 whenever a file is matched by a search query, the files entire version set or stack are included in the search results. As a result, there is no easy way to select just the matching files within the version sets or stacks.
For example, you could do a Find > By Details, with criteria Filename Does not Contain _edited, to find all the originals. But the search results will display all the files in each version set, which defeats your purpose.
A number of people have complained about this here and in other forums. (I dont think a product manager thought this through very carefully.)
I cant think of any easier way of accomplishing what you want.

Version sets in 12 not working correctly

Do other people have an issue in Photoshop Elements 12 with it not consistently saving photos in version sets? someties it works correctly and somethimes it doesn't and it also bumps me out stating it is a new photo. i do have it configured to always save in version sets and to not notify me with new photos?
Emily

Thank you so much. We'll see if this fixes the problem. I had worked with
Adobe for many many hours in August and they couldn't figure out why it was
doing this. how come they don't know their own product!!!
Emily

Saving in Version sets

I have Elements 4.0 for windows. All of a sudden I can't save my edits as versions sets and they don't appear in organizer at all. I think they are getting saved, I just can't find them. Also, I started having problems tagging pictures, sometimes it works other times it won't. I reinstalled the program, but I'm still having trouble. Anyone know what's going on? I need help - I'm three years behind on my pictures and now I'm at a stand still!

Try File > Catalog > Recover.

How to move all images in a version set

I have found need to re-arrange some of the pictures in my Organizer (PSE 3.01, Windows). I have found that if I move an image that is the top of a version set, only that top image is moved. All the older versions remain in the old folder.
Of course one can get around this by opening the version set and moving all the pictures from there, but I was moving a bunch of images, some of them version sets. This meant that I had to treat all the version sets a bit different. Would have been nice if everything went as a package to the new destination folder.
Any suggestions?

Sorry Larry, but I also found that in PSE 3.0.1 the only thing that worked for me was to expand each version set (one at a time), select all of the photos in that version set and do the Move.
Before starting my Moves, I had done a test (with an insignficant photo version set) of moving with Windows Explorer and then doing Reconnect. My moves were to a different physical hard drive and Reconnect was not automatically finding the new location. So I decided that expanding each of the version sets was the lesser evil for moving and updating the Catalog.
>Would have been nice if everything went as a package to the new destination folder.
Definitely agree.
Does anyone have feedback on what happens in Elements 4 for doing a
b Move
to a different physical hard drive when
b Version Sets
are involved?
Barb O

Ghosts appear on prints from jpeg files which were converted from psd version sets

PSE 10 with Windows 7. I saved some photo files in version sets when editing them for later printing into a book. When I was ready to print, I converted them into jpegs for arranging them on the page with LightRoom and then later printing at a local photo lab. When I got the book back, there was significant "ghosting" below the main image for some of the files. Some of the ghosts had to have been previous files from the psd version sets, and others came from other sources. Any idea what would cause that? Thanks for any help you can offer. Kjay27

Printed RAW files will always look unsaturated or "dull" until processed and saved as a jpeg or tiff files. Think of RAW/NEF as a means of preserving ALL the available information to later "develop" a final image to be saved as tiff or jpeg for publication. Shooting in Large Fine JPEG mode will yield great results for print and web publishing, and also leave more room on your memory card and computer drive to make more great photos
Nikon D70 & D200; TiBook 1Ghz; MacBook 2Ghz; Dual 1.8Ghz PowerMac G5; 20" Cinema Display Mac OS X (10.3.9) additional 300 GB internal; 160GB and 300GB externals; 10GB, 40GB, 60GB iPods

How do I eliminate the black blotches associated with version sets.

I have just had to reload Elements 6. Now I find that a lot of my people images carry version sets and show large black blotches usualy around the eye area. Could someone tell me how to avoid and eliminate them. It can be achoieved by deleting some of the sets but I would like to know why theu have suddenlt apperaer after a reload and how to avoid the in the future.
thanks

Go back and check the preferences again. It may be (not sure) that you need to turn it off in the downloader first, then in the main preferences, but it should be sticky once you get it all disabled.
On newly imported photos, you can fix things by just selecting the whole batch then going to Edit>Version set>Revert to original to get rid of the version with the black spots.

Organizer view has no spaces between the pictures. How do I see the arrows to see the elements of a version set

My organizer view does not look like the view in the tutorials. The photos are all lined up in a solid mass with no gray space in between. I can't see arrows to view elements of a version set, and the photos are difficult to pick out individually. I thought about just deleting all the photos and importing them again, but I can't because the program keeps saying they are already in the organizer. When I delete the album the photos are in, they are still in the organizer and still in a solid mass. I also can't seem to find any way to delete the sample photos. So I have two questions: how to delete photos from the program and how to fix the view. Thanks for any help you can provide.

Go to the View menu and select Details or Ctrl & D
It changes back to the classic grid display
To delete pictures from the catalog, select the picture(s) and then press the Delete key. You will then be asked if you want to also delete them from the hard drive. Make your own choice as required.
Brian

Moving Version Sets in PSE 3

I edited photos and saved in a version set. Then I moved the photos to a different file location. If I browse in PSE 3, it shows the version set in the new location. But if I browse on My Computer, the original photo did not move (only the edit).
How do I grab the entire version set to move to another folder? If this is not possible, how do I seperate the version set? (Everytime I try to do this, it wants to delete the edited pictures first.)
I have spent many hours trying to organize all my old pictures and I'm almost ready to give up and just use the freebie Microsoft Photo Editor and My Pictures :( Thanks for your help!

This is a bug in the "version set" feature in PSE 3.0 that is fixed in
version 4.0. Did you right-click on the version set and then choose
version set->expand version set (or is it reveal version set?). You can
then choose each individual picture in your version set and move them
one at a time.
-Trish

Version set problem

I have been using version seta for years,but now when I try to save an edited picture in a version set the organizer throws it away. Anybody else have this problem?

My catalog is roughly 12,000. The view I use shows the version set and the file information, i.e. Nef, Jpeg details.
Tim

Modifying Version Set and/or Stack Attributes

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