PAL DVD WS export: why black bars at sides?

I am editing a 1920x1080 EXCAM HD sequence in Premiere Pro CS6.01 on Win7x64.
I want to export to PAL Widescreen DVD.
When I use the PAL WS presets to export from Premiere I get black bars on either side of the MPEG2 DVD footage.
Why is this?
Both 1920x1080 and PAL WS are 16:9 (aren't they?). So why am I getting the black bars? Shouldn't the PAL DVD footage fill the entire width of the frame?
Any ideas why I get these black bars? And even better, how I can get rid of them?
Cheers
Mark

Why is this?
Before the age of digital video, it was decided by technocrats that what we see in the end product (called the Clean Aperture) would be different from what was there in the original (called the Production Aperture). They left off some pixels at the side when they made the calculation for the widescreen Pixel Aspect Ratio. That process has unfortunately carried over onto digital video, and we're still using that same old analog PAR, instead of what we should be using when you calculate it for the entire frame. This results in the black bars you see.
In CS6, this is easily overcome by selecting Scale to Fill in the Export settings.

Similar Messages

Premiere Elements 7: share/export DV-PAL in FLV/QT/WMV, black bars on top/bottom

During export (step "share", export for "PC" - sorry, if I use some wrong terms, got a german interface) of only DV-PAL video to FLV/QT/WMV there are always black bars on top/bottom of the video and the picture is wrong in aspect ratio. I can't help.
I tried different resolutions (original 720x576, 502x402, 320x240) and, as only possible with QT/WMV, different pixel aspect ratios (PARs), even user-defined PARs and 'wrong' aspect ratios (like 512x402). No chance. (I think precise user-defined data like "1,094" is not possible, because results did not change anyhow and this value is shown as "1".) With e.g. QT, 640x512, PAR 1,067 there are black bars with 6 px each.
My project settings must be correct I think: DV-PAL, 720x576, 4:3, 25 fps.
DV-PAL- and MPEG-Export/Share is no problem.
As a workaround I export DV-PAL and convert with XMediaRecode to FLV. But I want direct and clean export with PrEl. That's what I bought it for recently.
I wonder why there are only NTSC-setting suggested in FLV-share. I have to change the size by myself.
And I wonder why Wikipedia says PAR for DV-PAL is "1,0940" and Premiere says "1,067".
I'm new to Premiere Elements 7 (although I got some experience with Premiere 5/6.5, FinalCut, Cinelerra ...) using Windows XP.

I posted two videos on muvipix.com:
WMV cable modem settings PrEl (without audio, fps like original)
Strange: in VLC media player there are bars on the left and right (and slight faded bars on top/bottom - hope you can see) and in muvipix.com and Media Player Classic there are bars at top/bottom
http://muvipix.com/cpg/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=17219&pos=0
http://muvipix.com/cpg/albums/userpics/17219/Unbenannt.wmv
FLV (no resize, without audio, fps like original)
black bars on top/bottom, but only slight in Media Player Classic
http://muvipix.com/cpg/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=17219&pos=1
http://muvipix.com/cpg/albums/userpics/17219/Unbenannt.flv
I had to deactivate sound because this is Creative Commons stuff and I don't want to give credits. And I changed fps to "like original" because 30 fps as standard in PrEl is wrong. It's PAL here.
Thanks for your efforts.

Aspect ratio: 4:3 material being exported with black bars (on the sides!)

Hi all
I'm fairly new to using FinalCut Express: previously I've used other non-linear video editors on Windows.
I'm having a bit of a weird problem: I've got a sequence which was shot entirely in 4:3 (PAL). However, when I try to export that to a QuickTime movie it appears squashed from either side — black bars appear at the sides of the frame and everyone looks very tall and thin. The frame itself is still 4:3 but everything is being squashed to fit in the bars.
I've fiddled with as many settings as are immediately obvious to me to see if I can rectify this, but so far no banana: the sequence is about 90 minutes long and takes about 30 minutes to render each time when exporting.
Has anyone got any ideas what to do about this? I've been trying to do some research into how FCP/FCE handle different aspect ratios, and it seems to be a very complicated topic. In fact, in the same project I've got a sequence which contains almost entirely 16:9 anamorphic material. Ideally I'd like this to be output in a 16:9 frame with the few 4:3 clips appearing with bars on the side. However, it's only being output as 4:3 where the 4:3 clips appear full-frame and the 16:9 clips have bars at top and bottom...
Hope someone can help!
Mac Pro: 3GHz, 6GB RAM, X1900XT, BT, AirPort Mac OS X (10.4.8)

Tom, thanks for the reply.
Everything looks absolutely fine when played back in FCE; it's only when exporting to QuickTime that my problems start. The point is that this 4:3 sequence isn't being output into a 16:9 frame as a pillarbox: what's actually happening is that it's being put into a 4:3 frame with bars, with the result that the content is in fact being squeezed (it looks wrong).
How can you modify the aspect-ratio settings for a given sequence? I've looked through all the obvious sequence properties settings but have never found anything.
I'll just reiterate — it plays back fine within the viewer; only when output does it all go awry.
Richard

320x240 QT export produces black bars on right and left

Ok, this one is strange. So far, it only appears to affect 320x240 targets from sources that don't have square pixels. Starting with a 720x480 DV movie (even if I change the properties to display 640x480), I export directly to 320x240 and I get a movie with black bars down the right and left. I did not tell QT to letterbox or scale, although telling it to scale does no help.
The problem seems to be in the meta data. If I go to the movie's visual properties and change the move dimensions to 324x240 (with preserve aspect ratio unchecked), then the black bars disappear. When I change it back to 320x240, they are still gone and the movie plays fine. I save it and reopen it, and the black bars are back! The same thing happens exporting from Final Cut Pro using Quicktime conversion. This is definitely a bug.
The work around is to export to another 4:3 format with square pixels first and export that to 320x240.
On a related note, the same thing happens when I record a movie in Quicktime at 320x240. I get a recording with black bars down the sides.
This has never happened to me before. I'm a professional QT software developer and a content producer. I've been using Quicktime Pro for a decade, at least. I've been over all of the export settings, and I've deleted all of my Quicktime preference files.
Is there a way to report a bug to Apple?

Regarding: "there's a pretty good chance that your playback target isn't Quicktime Player"...
My assumption is that if your material is 320x240, it's probably that size because you're planning to either display it on a small-screen device, send it to a TV set, embed it in a presentation, or deliver it via the Web. In any of those cases, your final delivery target isn't QuickTime Player, but rather some other mode, such as the QuickTime web plug-in, iPod, AppleTV, or even some other option. In which case the strangeness with the player doesn't seem so strange.
As a workaround, you could layer your 320x240 movie with at 350x240 grey rectangle on the layer behind. That would fix it in QuickTime Player, but it would cause grey bars on either side if you embed into a web page or something like that.

Black bars on sides after exporting

I recently downloaded the trial version of Premiere Pro CC which I have never before. When exporting, my project has black bars on both sides and I'm not sure how to fix it. I know little about editing so I'm not sure how to fix this problem. I've tried multiple export setting and in each preview I see the black bars as well. Any help would be greaty appreciated. Thanks!

Your photo of the Sequence Settings tells only part of the story. The other parts:
your media: with a clip selected in the Project panel, go to the Info panel and report the frame dimensions.
your export settings: go File>Export>Media and post a screengrab of the Export Settings dialog with the Video tab visible. [btw, a screengrab will be easier for us to read than a photo of your screen...]
Since your source is NTSC DV (720x480 pixels at 0.9091 pixel aspect ratio), you should ideally pick an output preset that matches. For example, h.264/NTSC DV. [If you tell us how you plan to distribute the video, we can give more directed advice on which format to use.]

Transcode produces black bars on side in Encore but not AME

I am Transcoding 1920x1080 footage to NTSC widescreen DVD's. If I transcode the footage in Apple Compressor, or Adobe Media Encoder(with 12px top/bottom crop) it comes out correct. If I transcode in Encore, I cannot get rid of the thin black bars on the side. I am setting the crop in the Encore settings but this just creates a border all around and does not solve the problem.When I preview the output, it looks correct in the "Edit Quality Presets" window but has the borders in the timeline. I make a lot of quick one-off DVD's and I'm trying to find ways to just use one piece of software and not create a lot of extra steps. I understand why the crop is needed, I just need to know how to get Encore to give the same result as AME does.
Thanks.

Hey Ann. I couldn't make it work with just setting it to 16:9. It's the same thing as when rendering out a scaled HD square pixel file in a 720x480 (1.21) comp in After Effects. The top and bottom needs a bit of cropping to work in a SD 16:9 world.

Black Bars on Sides & Poor Upload to YouTube

        I have already tried converting my Mp4's from my camera to AVI and this will resolve the black bars but the end result is still poor video once uploaded... I get the little red x in the lower left hand corner about poor display quality (see picture at bottom) If I work with the original Mp4s and leave the Black Bars on the side the videos looks fine... please help. The AVIs are taking too much space once I convert them from Mp4 so I would like to leave that option out of this topic, unless someone can tell me how set Super or Prisim up to keep the file size the same when converting or how to convert an Mp4 to AVI in a smaller format that is usable by Premiere.
These are the best specs I can give you guys after reading How To Ask A Question from Hunt....
*   WINDOWS 7 64BIT os
*   Adobe Project Settings - HD 1080i 30 presently
                       HD 1080i 30 (60i) formerly
*   Adobe Settings - Default after a clean install of Windows 7
*   Files - Working With raw Mp4 HD 1080/60i (all the same from the same camera)
    * w 1920 x h 1080
    * data rate 17029kbps
    * 59 fps
    * Audio bitrate 128 kbps
    * 2 channel stereo
    * 48 kHz
    * videos are about 500 mb in size each
MY CAMERA
    Signal Type       Signal Type       NTSC
    Storage Media     Storage Media     SDHC slot
    Image Sensor     Sensor Type     CMOS
    Sensor Size     1/4.1"
    No. of pixels     4.7M
    Lens             Optical Zoom     20x (22x)
    Digital Zoom     220x
    Display             Main Screen     No. of pixels     230K
    Video Recording      Recording Format     H.264 HD
    Memory Application     Memory Application     Compatible Card     SDHC
MY COMPUTER
    * Gateway DX4300-03
General
    * Type Personal computer
    * Product Form Factor Mini tower
    * Width 7.1 in
    * Depth 17.3 in
    * Height 16.3 in
    * Weight 24.9 lbs
    * Desktop type Gaming system
Processor
    * Type AMD Phenom X4 9750 / 2.4 GHz
    * Multi-Core Technology Quad-Core
    * 64-bit Computing Yes
    * Installed Qty 1
    * Max Supported Qty 1
Cache Memory
    * Type L2 cache
    * Installed Size 2 MB
    * Cache Per Processor 512 KB ( 4 x 512 KB )
Mainboard
    * Chipset type AMD 780G
RAM
    * Installed Size 8 GB / 8 GB (max)
    * Technology DDR2 SDRAM
    * Form Factor DIMM 240-pin
    * Configuration Features 4 x 2 GB
Storage Controller
    * Type Serial ATA - Integrated
    * Controller interface type Serial ATA-300
Storage
    * Hard Drive 1 x 1 TB - Standard - Serial ATA-300 - 7200 rpm
    * Hard Drive 2nd Drive Simpletech 500gb drive (speed unknown) USB 2.0
    * Hard Drive 3rd Drive WD My Book Essential External Drive 1TB USB 2.0
Optical Storage
    * Type DVD±RW (±R DL) / DVD-RAM
    * Disc Labeling Technology Labelflash Technology
Monitor
    * Acer H203H
    * Sylvania Flatpanel TV extended
Multimedia Functionality
    * TV tuner type Dual digital/analog TV
Graphics Controller
    * NVIDIA GeForce GT 220 - updated yesterday
    * Graphics Processor / Vendor ATI Radeon HD 4650 (not in use)
    * Video Memory 1 GB
Audio Output
    * Type Sound card - Integrated
    * Sound output mode 7.1 channel surround
    * Audio output compliant standards High Definition Audio
    * Speaker(s) 2 x Right / left rear channel
Networking
    * Networking Network adapter - Integrated
    * Wireless LAN Supported Yes
    * Data Link Protocol Ethernet , Fast Ethernet , Gigabit Ethernet
Expansion / Connectivity
    * Expansion Slots Total (Free) 1 ( 0 ) x Processor , 4 ( 0 ) x Memory - DIMM 240-pin , 1 ( 1 ) x PCI Express x1
    * Interfaces 8 x Hi-Speed USB - 4 pin USB Type A ( 4 front, 4 rear ) ,
      1 x Keyboard - Generic - 6 pin mini-DIN (PS/2 style) , 1 x Mouse - Generic - 6 pin mini-DIN (PS/2 style) ,
      1 x Display / video - VGA - 15 pin HD D-Sub (HD-15) , 1 x IEEE 1394 (FireWire) ,
      1 x Network - Ethernet 10Base-T/100Base-TX/1000Base-T - RJ-45 , 1 x Modem -
Phone line - RJ-11 , 1 x Display / video - HDMI - 19 pin HDMI Type A , 1 x Storage - Serial ATA-300 - 7 pin Serial ATA
   *note the red 'X' in the lower left hand corner, as well as the black bars. This is how it looks when directly imported into Premiere (mp4 file from the camera)

1. Open Premiere Elements 8.0.1 and set the project preset (new project dialog) = PAL AVCHD Full HD1080i25.
2. In the program, Edit Menu/Preferences/General, have a check mark next to "Default Scale to Frame Size".
3. Right click the Edit Mode Monitor, select Magnification, and have the set on "Fit".
4. Using Premiere Elements' Get Media/Files & Folders, import your AVCHD 1920x 1080 16:9 video into the program. (You will see your video in the Organizer.)
5. Drag your video from the Organizer to the Timeline. Are you seeing a 4:3 version of it in the Edit Mode Monitor?
6. If so, click on the Project Tab in the row below the active Organize (Blue) Tab to bring up the Project Media View.
7. In the Project Media View, right click your video in the list to bring up the Interpret Footage dialog.
8. In the Interpret Footage dialog, under Pixel Aspect Raio, dot the "Conform to:" and change the setting = Square Pixels (1.0). After you click OK to that, see what your video now looks like in the Edit Mode Monitor.
Miscelleanous
1. You can also use the Interpret Footage dialog for Frame Rate considerations.
2. Although the gspot read out does not give a reading for PAR (Pixel Aspect Ratio), the PAR can be calculated from the SAR and DAR values given since PAR = DAR/SAR and, in your case, 1.778/1.778 = 1.0. The DAR is Display Aspect Ratio and the SAR is Storage Aspect Ratio.
3. What is the duration (seconds, minutes, hours) of the video that you have been trying to use in Premiere Elements 8.0.1. You are working with AVCHD which is a very resourve demanding format, and it appears that you have 2 GB RAM installs that probably translates in much less available and you do not say how much free hard drive space your computer has. But, if the video in question is only of a few seconds duration, we should be able to work through this pixel aspect ratio issue.
courtesy of AT Romano...

Removing black bars down sides of clip?

Hello
I am editing a movie clip in Premier Elements 11. It's a 25fps file. I did not film the clip, but was told that it was a normal (not widescreen) PAL clip. The clip looks like this when I am editing it (screenshot).
What concerns me are those two thick black bars down both sides of the clip. What causes them, please? Is it that the clip was really widescreen and I am editing it in normal mode and how best to remove them as I imagine they will be visible when the final product is show on a DVD or TV.
Many thanks.
Steve

kissakikai
In your other thread
https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1705170
I wrote
For now my messages to you will have to be read only because of the reply issues.
1. Please go to your home computer (no mobile device). In the browser (Firefox or Internet Explorer), type in the Adobe address http://www.adobeforums.com, sign in there with your Adobe ID and Password. Go to the Adobe Premiere Elements Forum where you search for and find your thread. Open the thread and try to reply to one of my messages by clicking the Reply button. Do you now see the Reply button to do that whereas before you could not.
2. Also, go to your browser's Options/Advanced/Network and its Cached Web content and clear the Cached Web content.
3. If you need to use a mobile device for communicating with the forum, do you have another mobile device that you could try to use?
After you send the reply, if it arrives with no message as before, that will tell us that the above were not the answer for that problem.
As for the Premiere Elements 13.1 Update, we will move on that as soon as possible when you can report back on what worked or did not.
Do not give up.
You have just sent another reply without a message in it. So, I am concluding that none of the above has solved the posting problem. I meant for you to reply in
your own thread, but that is OK because we are going to try for another communication route to workaround the posting in the thread problem.
Let us try the troubleshooting using the Adobe Private Message system. Later when we resolve the problems, then we can write back in the forum thread
to let everyone know the outcome.
In post 8 of this thread, click on my ID AT Romano. That will open my profile page. Look to the right to find an orange envelope. Click on the orange envelop
to open to an emailing area. For now, just try to send a quick message, like "I am here." If that works, we will continue with details back and forth until we
gain success with all the problems.. If that does not work, then post again in this thread. Another blank reply here will tell me that you sent the email which I did not get.
Thank you.
ATR

Samsung monitor shows black bars on sides

I'm running OS 10.8.2 on a mid-2012 MacBook Pro, and I recently bought a Samsung Syncmaster SA300 (22 inch) monitor which I've connected using a VGA cable (DVI wasn't working, don't know why). I immediately noticed black bars on the sides of the screen, and the picture seems squished, despite the fact that I've chosen the proper resolution for the monitor. Funny thing is, when I boot into Windows 7, the bars disappear and the resolution looks perfect.

Hello MpegEVIL,
I would recommend taking a look at this article named Apple computers: Troubleshooting issues with video on internal or external displays found here http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1573
I feel this article has the best troubleshooting steps for you.

SWF/FLV files show white/black bars on sides of frame

I have a recurring issue of bars showing up on the left and right side of my swf/flv frames. The good news is the video plays on our site. The bad news is the bars show up on some of the flash files (like on testimonials.html) and not on others (like wedding.html), even though I perceive I'm copying in the same code.
<p>
        <object classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" width="600" height="366" id="FLVPlayer1">
          <param name="movie" value="FLVPlayer_Progressive.swf" />
          <param name="quality" value="high" />
          <param name="wmode" value="opaque" />
          <param name="scale" value="noscale" />
          <param name="salign" value="lt" />
          <param name="FlashVars" value="&MM_ComponentVersion=1&skinName=Corona_Skin_3&streamName=images/WhyVid eo&autoPlay=false&autoRewind=false" />
          <param name="swfversion" value="8,0,0,0" />
          
          <param name="expressinstall" value="Scripts/expressInstall.swf" />
          
          
          <object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" data="FLVPlayer_Progressive.swf" width="600" height="366">
            
            <param name="quality" value="high" />
            <param name="wmode" value="opaque" />
            <param name="scale" value="noscale" />
            <param name="salign" value="lt" />
            <param name="FlashVars" value="&MM_ComponentVersion=1&skinName=Corona_Skin_3&streamName=images/WhyVid eo&autoPlay=false&autoRewind=false" />
            <param name="swfversion" value="8,0,0,0" />
            <param name="expressinstall" value="Scripts/expressInstall.swf" />
            
            <div>
              <h4>Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.</h4>
              <p><a href="http://www.adobe.com/go/getflashplayer"><img src="http://www.adobe.com/images/shared/download_buttons/get_flash_player.gif" alt="Get Adobe Flash player" /></a></p>
                </div>
            
              </object>
          
            </object>
      </p>

Hi
1st. I like many other will not download a zip file, can you post a link to the site?
It may be if you are using the same code but only changing the swf/flv file name, that the swf/flv's are smaller than the size specified in your object code - width="600" height="366".
If the swf/flv's size is smaller then the player will be the size specified, but your swf/flv will be centralized inside the player, (unless otherwise specified) resulting in the white/black bars.
PZ

Black bars on sides of video

My video is 4x3, but in the preview window it comes up 16x9 and puts black bars on the sides of the video.
How can I correct this without starting over? Here is what I am talking about:
http://gallery.me.com/nickrooney#100069/Picture%201&bgcolor=black

Answer found here: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=7734136&#7734136
You can copy all footage into a correctly formatted sequence. Select all the files and right click to "Remove Attributes" and verify Distort is checked. Ta-Da!!!
Note: if you've changed other attributes make sure you only change distort.

Black bar left side when importing

When importing Quicktime HDV 1080i60 video into an HD project, I wind up with a black bar on the left side of the movie. I've tried every combination of HD format and preference setting. Can anyone explain what I'm doing wrong?

For everyone who is interested, I tried some more things:
I had a long phone call today with Apple Support (when upgrading to Mountain Lion you get 90 days phone support again) and we did similar things.
First: change the settings - didnt work
Second: Option+Cmd+P+R to reset PRAM - didnt work either
Third: create a new partition, clean install mountain lion and see if the problem still exists. At the beginning it worked but after once changing the resolution it cant get back to the correct displaying anymore. Same problem also.
They said that then it is probably the fact that the driver of the display doesnt work with ML - I should contact Acer now.
Or I should get back to the technical helpdesk again.
Will try both...
But it means that it is a software issue caused by ML.
Keep on trying...

How to add black bars to SIDES of image? Using 'Crop' won't work for this. I explain why.

I have some clips that are off axis and I applied a bit of tilt to correct them. However, I now need to crop the sides giving me a 1.66:1 effect inside the 1.85:1 frame. But how/ Using CROP in Premiere Pro just crops the image off axis. Here is a screen grab...
How can I get a nice, perfect side crop? I've searched, folks, so would appreciate some guidance. Thanks!

4 point garbage matte to crop.
Or overlay a title with black pillars.

How do I get rid of small black bars on sides of the videos

I'll attach an image below to show you what I'm talking about. The settings on the video should be correct as I dragged the video from the project window to new item and selected new sequence.
One thing I tried that seemed to work was in the workspace window where it shows the clips I've edited together, I've streched it out a bit. That worked good, except it did the same thing to all clips. Should I just take the main clip and stretch it and then export it, then go from there? Any other ideas? Thanks.

Or if its only on 1 clip you can just go to the effects control tab for that clip and scale up a bit.

How do I get CS4 Change Quality Presets to be used and remove black bars?

In Encore CS4 I CAN change the quality preset to what I want, but then when I go back to the project it does not stick. I tried to get to transcode settings, but they are greyed out. There does not seem to be a way to "USE" the quality preset I have saved!
This is a single video clip that I sent to Encore from Premier Pro CS4 so I could make DVD and BD's. However it seems I am unable to make a DVD at 4 Mbps (so I can combine this Premier Pro Project with another on a single DVD) no matter what I try. Also I notice the BD I made was not m2v like I am used to in CS3, and therefore are not sure I can combine it with a menu and another clip on a single BD as I have done numerous times in CS3 Encore.
I also notice as I look at preview, and then also when a made a default setting DVD that there are black bars on either side of the picture. This was a 1440X1080 60i project in Premier Pro CS3 and I am desireing to make ait a 1920 X 1080 DVD.
Neither of these were problems in Premier Pro CS3 and I am thinking the way around this is to spend the day or two and redo the project in CS3. I have done many projects successfully in CS3 and mistakenly thought I could just pick up the project in CS4 and be successful again. If anyone knows how to resolve these in CS4, it would save this extra work, if not, I will join the crowd with CS4 "issues" and go back to CS3.

First, on the black bars. I do not want them at all. I cannnot post a screenshot now as
file attachments are turned off temporarily, but they are about 5% on either side. Totally unacceptable especially when in CS3 when exported to Encore there are NO black bars either visible in Encore or in the resulting DVD's
On the options and is the preset saved. I can close Encore and open it afresh and find the preset that I saved listed in the dropdown of presets with the name I saved it as and all the settings the way I want them.
On the issue of Transcode settings when selecting the resource... When I select the resource in the Project panel, or in the Timeline tab, the Transcode settings is greyed out. I have consulted the help screens and forums for various ways to change the transcode settings and none of the suggested ways work.
It looks like my CS4 install does not work the way yours does. I am about to completely unistall CS4 and CS3 and all other Adobe products and try a fresh reinstall to see if that works. Most likely I will simply reinstall CS#, since that works, and abandon CS4 for now as I am getting way behind on my work, and know I can finish with CS3. I have also heard form others that Sony Vegas is really solid and does not have all these weird bugs such as seen in CS4 and CS5, and is a much less bloated product and does the encodings faster. Since it is also less expensive, this seems too good to be true, but work a trial. So first rip every Adobe product off my PC and format the HD and start fress with JUST CS3 and get my work done. Then try Vegas to see if it is as good as my buddies say, if so bye bye Adobe!

PAL DVD WS export: why black bars at sides?

Similar Messages

Maybe you are looking for