Pentax K5 / Apple Aperture - White Balance Inconsistency

Used my new Pentax K5 with studio flash for the first time on Saturday. I got some peculiar colour temperature results. Can anyone explain this?
All shots used the following settings:
- Raw DNG
- Adobe RGB
- Camera white balance set to "Flash"
- ISO 100
- 1/180s
- f/11 to f/19
- same lens used throughout ( Pentax A 50mm macro f2.8 )
When I loaded the raw files in to Apple Aperture the colour temperatures of the raw conversions came out as an inconsistent variety of temperatures and tints. As sample, the first ten shots on the "roll" show the following white balance values after raw conversion (prior to any manual adjustments being made):
5759 K / +4
5759 K / +4
5759 K / +4
5759 K / +4
4492 K / -9
4479 K / -7
4463 K/ -8
4469 K / -11
4563 K / -8
4572 K / -8
(For what its worth, 5759 K / +4 looks right to me.)
What is going on? Do I have a camera problem or an Aperture raw conversion problem?

My first question is why are you converting to DNG before importing into Aperture? It appears that Aperture should support the RAW files from that camera.
Second question is how familiar are you with the whole concept of RAW images? You realize that none of the camera settings (apart from shutter speed and aperture) affect the digital RAW file.
One of the strengths and reasons for shooting RAW is the ability to adjust white balance after the shoot. JPG images are extremely limited in their ability to have there white balance adjusted.
RAW conversion software is as much art as science, which is why no two RAW conversion programs will render an image in exactly the same way.
So I would first eliminate the DNG step and then see how that affects the workflow.
regards

Similar Messages

Aperture white balance default

I'm new to Aperture
The Aperture white balance default is 6826 (tint 13).
I set my camera wb to Flash.
How can I change the Aperture default WB to Flash?
In my meta data all my images have a wb=Flash. Should Aperture read the metadata to set the WB?
Tony

Hello Tony,
welcome to the Aperture Forum of the Apple Support Communities. Can you explain a little bit more, which default setting you are talking about?
At first I thought you were talking about the default setting for the White Balance adjustment in the adjustment panel of the Library inspector. But that one is set to a color temperature of 5000K (Horizon daylight), a suitable preset for landscape photography - at least, that setting is what I see in my Aperture version.
The number you quote "6826 K" is in the range of the color temperature of a LCD or CRT screen, suitable for the display of digital images on a screen. Where did you find that setting?
If you want to adjust any image to the setting the white balance your camera was set to, then you need to define a preset for the White Balance adjustment in the adjustment panel of the Library Inspector. Set this to the color temperature of your flashlight - it should be somewhere in the range of 5,500–6,000 K. Do you know the exact color temperature for the flash setting of your camera?
Regards
Léonie

Aperture: White Balance in Adjustments inspector no longer appears by default

Aperture 3.3.2
In the past week, the White Balance adjustment in the Adjustments inspector no longer appears by default in my program. It's always been there, above Exposure, Enhance, and Highlights and Shadows.
Now, White Balance is gone, and I have to click 'add adjustment... White Balance' for every single photo, which is hugely frustrating. I shoot in Canon RAW.
What happened to my default White Balance, and can someone help me put it back?
Thanks!

Click the cogwheel beside the White Balance adjustment and add this adjustment to the default set.
Regards
Léonie

Iso, Shutter Speed, Aperture, White balance for music videos or film?

Hello everyone. I just started making music videos. I just want some tips or can someone direct me to a good guide for music videos. I know the basics of iso, shutter speed, and aperture already. I read some guides and so far I know I gotta put my shutter at 1/50 or if i'm recording something at high speed, i increase it. is it so? Also, I always put my aperture at the lowest. I have a Canon T2i and Canon lenses 50 f/1.8 and kit lens. I always put my aperture at the lowest 3.5(kit lens) or 1.8. The tricky part is the ISO. I don't know where to put my ISO. I know the lowest ISO is good but sometimes the video looks dark. Do I fix this in video editing programs? Like should I always stay at ISO 100? What about white balance? I use Final Cut 7.
Also, what about during the day and night? Indoors? etc I also have a cheap LED lights.

your questions are about the very basics of photography.
I would consider to buy a book, which explains photography 'from the ground' ("... for dummies.." not meant as an offence!)
in short:
a scenery offers a defined amount of light.
Your cameras 'film' aka sensor, needs a defined amount of light to deliver a picture.
So, on recoprding, you have to control the amount of light, and the controls are:
aperture - opened or closed
shutter - shorter or longer
speed (ISO) - higher or lower.
Imagine the light as a stream of tiny balls, coming from your scenery: a bigger hole = aperture lets more balls into the cam. A shorter shutter speed reduces the amount of balls. And a higher ISO catches more balls than a lower. ..
Understanding that, you realize that those parameters are crosswise-related: an open aperture + a shorter shutter speed results in the same amount of light on the sensor as a closed aperture and a longer shutter speed.
If the amount of light is still too much, lower the sensitivity = ISO.
If the amount of light is too little, open the aperture, or use a longer shutter speed or raise the sensitivity.
When you set one or two parameters in this equation, you have to adjust the other ones: Video-makers start with the shutter speed, usually set to 1/2 of frame-rate = 1/50 - 1/60 - why? Because it allows a nice looking 'smear' aka motion-blur aka 'film look'.
Now, with a given speed, you can conrtol teh amount of light for the sensor only by aparture; and when you reach limits, by setting ISO.
When you understood this BY PRACTICING, you're next step is the concept of 'shallow focus'/depth of field. And when you understood this BY PRACTICING, you'll will understand the need of Neutral Densitity Filters for movie-makers...
But first things first: buy a book; read your cam's amnual; practice the settings and watch carefully the different results, diff. settings result.
... and it's really just about basics - independently of your device and/or your software.
None of the things mentioned above can be done or 'fixed' in post... (basically...)
happy movie making!

Aperture white balance only goes to 2500 where Lightroom goes to 2000

I shoot with a Leica M8, which has poor white balance. I was unable to remove red cast with aperture, while Ligthroom had no problems. I noticed the white balance sliders in aperture only go to 2500. Lower numbers can be input manually, but that prevents sliding until right. Is there any way to adjust the slider settings?

Robo,
Hover your mouse over the NUMBERS and then click and drag. It'll take you down to 2000 if you drag to the left, and if you drag to the right you'll increase the temperature, as well. Only the sweet spots are shown.
Scott

Aperture 1.5.2 white balance broken and render it totally useless!!!

I really like Aperture a lot. However, Aperture is totally screwed up in white balance. I have been using Aperture for a few months now, but I don't seem to have found any work-around for its erratic white balance.
I shoot using a Nikon D200. To verify my concern of its erratic white balance setting, I shot a piece of white paper under controlled and commom lighting.
1. 6500K light source. D200 set to 6700K for one shot. Calibrate using the white paper using the custom preset setting and take another shot My D200 always nail the white balance with the custom preset function.
2. About 2650K household incandescent light. One shot with Auto WB setting. Another one with Tungsten -1 setting. Yet one more with 2650K setting.
None of them came out right in Aperture. The white-balance eye-dropper is totally useless. I never can equalize the RGB channel. I open them up in Nikon Capture NX and they are all accurate.
Now how complicated can shooting a white piece of paper get? Is Apple reinnovating white balance? Aperture seems to be the only RAW converter in the world that gets this basic RAW functional totally wrong. Is Canon user having the same problem?
Mac Pro Mac OS X (10.4.9) 3G RAM

The same images out of my D200 looks accurate and fine with Nikon Capture NX. So I doubt that it's a problem of the camera itself.
There are really multiple problems with white balance in Aperture. First, it doesn't interpret the WB setting from NEF raw file correctly. It displays a wrong WB setting to begin with. That asides. Let's assume I don't mind that and have learned to live with it. However, the WB eye-dropper is too erratic. It just refuses to neutralize the point I click on. What's up with that? Lightroom and Capture NX both did it spot on.
I have to admit that Aperture's rendering is slightly better than Lightroom's, but only when I don't need to correct the WB. As soon as I use the WB eye-dropper, it screws it up! This is driving me nuts. I just wasted $300 and a few months of time.
I have started to pray and I'll start going back to church on Sunday if it means it will get fixed...
Can someone from Apple confirm that this problem is being addressed? Switching RAW processor is as expensive as switching camera system. Apple, please, if you're really listening to your customer.
Mac Pro Mac OS X (10.4.9) 3G RAM
Mac Pro Mac OS X (10.4.9) 3G RAM

Can you remove the camera white balance setting in Aperture

I have a Canon 7D and use Aperture for processing and storing my images.
With the Canon I shoot both video and still and frequently adjust the white balance in the camera. I make a frequent mistake in leaving the wrong white balance setting on - eg when taking video indoors in the evening I set the white balance to indoors (the Canon seems poor at white balance decision making on video) and then I forget I'm not using auto white balance and switch to taking a photo with flash. The result is a horrible blue photo - which if I don't spot the problem at the time seems very hard to correct afterwards.
I use the Aperture white balance adjustments frequently but unless there is a patch or white or grey I an use the dropper on, I find this particular situation seems to be right off the scale of what I can fix in Aperture. I end up with sliders at the extremes of the scales and no intuitive sense of what numbers to type in manually to try and get realistic colour - so I often end up discarding these photos even if the shot itself is something I'd like to use.
So my question is given I'm importing RAW, is there a way to show the phoo without the (wrong) white balance setting I applied in the camera, to let me choose white balance from scratch?
Or if not, do you have any advice about how to adjust from this very bluey unrealistic colour of image?

Kirkby - thanks for the quick reply.
Didn't know you could drag inside a value field - that's helpful.
But being able to get different numbers on the slider isn't the root of my problem.
In a specific example I have two photos - one taken with white balance set to flash and the photo was with flash, where after a bit of tweaking to get the colour I want the temp slider is at 5000K (and tint 0). The second photo has my shooting error with interior lighting white balance but taken with flash. The two shots were taken from almost the same point of the same view (but different people in frame). The shot with the white balance error comes off camera horribly blue coloured. I can fiddle with the two sliders - I take temperature to 20000K and tint to 40 to do the best with it I can, and with those settings one of the two faces is approaching flesh colour but the wall behind the subjects (which is a light blue in reality) is now appearing light yellow in places. I just can't get a good looking colour effect no matter ow extreme the slider settings.
I may have phrased my question badly - as I totally agree you can't show a raw without a colour setting - so maybe I'm better asking to be able to use a different colour setting on the raw data rather than having to start with adjustments on top of my white balance mistake.
Given the two shots were in the same place against the same background and the same lighting (both with flash) it seems to me I ought to be able to get a similar colour effect on both and I just can't. To illustrate here are the two photos (the one on the left was shot with flash wb and in Aperture I'm viewing it with 5000K and 0 tint, the one on the right was shot with indoor wb and in Aperture I'm viewing it with 20000K and 40 tint and it looks terrible!)
https://www.box.com/shared/qle3t6ovyhrd1egez3vc

How-To: White-balance your image properly Attn: Aperture Team @ Apple

Since Aperture's white balance eye-dropper is more-or-less useless I have taken it upon myself to discover a means to accurately white-balance an image using Aperture.
My method is as follows:
1. Open my desired image in Aperture and hit Z to view at 100%
2. Open up /Applications/Utilities/DigitalColor Meter
3. In DigitalColor Meter, go into preferences and select the following options:
Magnification Factor: 8x
Refresh behavior: Refresh continuously
[X] Float window above other apps
4. Set DigitalColor Meter's "Aperture Size" to the third or 4th notch to get a fairly large radius
5. Move the cursor over the image until DigitalColor Meter's "Aperture" box is over a portion of the image that you want neutral and hit Command(Apple)-L
to lock it at that position
6. Adjust the White Balance controls in Aperture until DigitalColor Meter reads equal (or approximately equal) R G B values
You now have an image that's white balanced accurately for the area you selected. If it is not satisfactory, click on DigitalColor Meter and hit Command(Apple)-L to unlock and repeat the 5th and 6th steps above with a new area.
Notice to Apple's Aperture Team: This is how white balance should work in Aperture. The white balance eye-dropper currently produces pretty random results. When working on this tool for a future update, look at allowing the user to set a radius for sampling the image and build the DigitalColor Meter into the application. This would bring Aperture closer to being a real professional tool.
Dual G5 2.5GHz, 4GB RAM, GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL Mac OS X (10.4.3)

Test Results:
Aperture 1.1:
Image Temperature: 3594
Tint: -17
When using the white balance tool on a white section of a photo, the RGB values changed from R 255 G 234 B 192 to R 255 G 230 B 197 and the Temperature changed to 3946 and Tint to 12.
The photo still remained unacceptable.
When usint the white balance tool on a grey section of the same photo, the RGB values cahnge from R 211 G 178 B 126 to R 208 G 180 B 162 and the Temperatue changed to 3154 and Tint to 2.
The photo still remained unacceptable but was notably improved.
Using Capture One Pro, the results were as follows:
Temperatue: 3850
Tint: -10
When using the white balance tool on a white section of the same photo, the RGB values changed from R 255 G 241 B 200 to R 244 G 244 B 244 and the Temperature changed to 2500 and Tint to -16.
Photo was very acceptable with no perceivable colour cast.
When using the white balance tool on a grey section of the same photo, the RGB values changed from R 190 G 153 B 108 to R 153 G 153 B 153 and Temperature to 2550 and Tint to -2.
Photo was very acceptable with no perceivable colour cast.
From this quick test on a photo, I can draw the following conclusions:
1. Aperture interprets temperature and tint data differently from Capture One Pro, although this likely due to the use of a camera profile within Capture One Pro;
2. Using the white balance tool in Aperture on a "white" section does not neutralize the RGB values;
3. Using the white balance tool in Aperture on a "white" section does not correctly remove a colour cast within a photograph;
4. Using the white balance tool in Aperture on a "grey" section does not neutralize the RGB values; and
5. Using the white balance tool in Aperture on a "grey" section does not correctly remove a colour cast within a photograph, although it does work better.

White Balance Failure, Pentax K10D

I'm a very experienced computer user/photographer with a very simple, but crippling Aperture problem:
White balance. . .doesn't. Using the eye-dropper, either on a spot I'd like to neutralize, or on a known gray target, produces a white balance that's several points too green.
128/128/128 comes out as 128/132/128, etc. Looking at the green-magenta slider shows it pinned all the way to the right on magenta. This happens with either DNG or PEF masters.
It does NOT happen using my Canon 5D files, or my colleague's Nikon captures, leading me to suspect that Apple has somehow come up with a crappy profile for the Pentax. I know Lightroom and ACR had similar early problems with K10D files and white balance.
I've tried all the usual voodoo cures--deleting prefs, reinstalling, etc. Anyone else having this problem? How would I make this known to the Aperture team? I can't seem to find any email support choices in the Apple.com support area?
Anyone have any ideas? Now that I'm mainly using Pentaxes, I'd like Aperture to, I dunno, just work.

Just out of curiosity, have you tried shooting in DNG rather than PEF? I know the file size is much larger, but if the WB and exposure was more accurate it would be worth it to me. I'll try some experiments later.
Yesterday I profiled my K10D with a Gretag MacBeth ColorChecker and a script for Adobe Camera Raw. The idea is to see how the default ACR RAW conversion compares with known values from a GTMB ColorChecker. I was able to calibrate ACR (and thus Lightroom since it uses ACR) to give me very accurate color with the K10D.
However, when I open the RAW exposure of the ColorChecker in Aperture, the exposure (white patch), tonality (grey patches) and colors are really, really far off. I know color is very subjective, but man, I wish Aperture was a little more in the ball park with this one.
I still prefer Aperture to LR, so I hope there's some way to remedy this in the future.

Canon EOS 550D JPEGs don't show white balance EXIF info in Aperture

I have 23,000 photos in my iPhoto library which I would eventually like to transfer to Aperture. I've experimented with importing just a few photos from iPhoto so that I can practise using Aperture before I go over to it completely, but have a problem in that the white balance info for JPEGs is not copying over with the rest of the metadata. The white balance column in the Info pane is empty and there are no 'cloud' or 'sun' symbols at the top right of the Info pane beside the word JPEG. The white balance info for RAW photos, however, copies over fine.
I have performed Aperture Library First Aid (repaired permissions and database, and rebuilt database) but the problem still exists. I have also created a new Aperture library and then imported some original photos from iPhoto which I exported to the desktop and then into the new Aperture library. I had the same problem, with no white balance information showing.
This question is being re-posted in a slightly different form from a similar one I asked yesterday, because it has been suggested to me that it may be a problem peculiar to Canon EOS 550D users. Has any other Canon EOS 550D user come across this problem, or can anyone suggest a remedy please? I am using the latest versions of Aperture 3 and iPhoto '11.

Hello Ernie
I think you've pinpointed the nub of the problem. As I was only trying out Aperture, I thought the best thing to do would be to import just a few photos from iPhoto and have a play, so I went to the Import button in the Toolbar and imported them from my iPhoto library individually. After reading your advice I have just changed libraries and opened the iPhoto library in Aperture and the white balance information is now showing. I can't really see what the difference is between the two, I would have thought the white balance information would show whichever way I looked at the photos but I don't care, because you have solved it for me. Thank you so much for your time. So many people have tried to help me and I'm most grateful to the Apple Support community!

White Balance in LR vs. Aperture

I'm comparing LR and Aperture for use with my Pentax K10D. What's amazing is how different the RAW conversion is in each program. I now have a full appreciation of RAW files as "digital negatives" and the software programs as "developers".
For example, a RAW file that appears properly exposed on my K10D will also be properly exposed in LR. However, that same file will be overexposed by 2/3 a stop in Aperture (of course this is recoverable, but interesting nonetheless). I imagine this has something to do with the different tone curves applied to the RAW file by the camera, Aperture and LR. LR seems to be more similar to what is done in-camera on the Pentax K10D.
One thing I can't figure out though is why white balance values would be different in each program. I thought WB was simply stored as a number (kelvin) in the camera, and the RAW converter just reads that number. Clearly I'm mistaken here, because in several test photos I opened in both Aperture and LR, the white balance is dramatically different. (Both WB settings are "as shot"). For example, for the same photo, in Aperture WB was 5950 and in LR it was 4550.
The programs must have a different way of calculating or displaying this info, because when I use Aperture's WB settings in LR, or vice versa, the images don't look the same at all. The tint sliders seem to be very different as well.
Any insight you could offer on this would be appreciated. At the end of the day I can produce very similar results in both programs with adjustments, but I'm trying to figure out which one's default settings are closest to what I prefer.
Finally... what effect do the following preferences have, and is it advisable to use them?:
- "Make defaults specific to camera serial number"
- "Make defaults specific to camera ISO"

If you consistently get White balances in LR that are far off, it could be that the WB decoding algorithm for this camera is wrong. You might want to submit a bug report in that case. You should be able to see the actual white balance in the manufacturer's software (don't know if pentax makes any). You can also open it up in the open source dcraw (or its outstanding GUI derivative
ufraw) program. The author of dcraw has basically cracked all the RAW formats that are in use and it almost always reads white balance correctly. Also, exiftool might read those values.

Aperture incorrectly reading white balance data from RAW file?

I'm having some problems with both Aperture 1.1.2 and 1.5 importing RAW files from a Nikon D70 and a Canon G6. In both cases, Aperture is not reading the "as shot" white balance correctly.
With the G6, Aperture is always setting a fixed color temperature of 6016K, and a fixed tint of -15, regardless of the image in question. If I read the same image using Adobe Camera Raw, or Lightroom, then it I get the white balance value as set in the camera.
With the D70, it's picking up a different white balance value from the one set in the camera, always one far warmer than it should be, and with a green tint. Again, the Adobe tools get the right value out of the RAW file. With both cameras I have experimented with setting the white balance manually on the camera, and also with the "auto white balance" setting, but it makes no difference to Aperture.
Obviously I can change all of the values manually, but it's very time consuming, and in most cases the in-camera value is pretty close to what I need, so I'd much prefer Aperture to use it.
In any case, I'm worried about the discrepancy between Aperture and Camera Raw on something so basic.
Anybody got any ideas? I'm hoping I'm just doing something silly, as I have only been using Aperture for a couple of weeks, and maybe something is mis-configured.
Thanks
HG

In any case, I'm worried about the discrepancy
between Aperture and Camera Raw on something so
basic.
Sorry I can't help you directly with Aperture as I haven't bought it - yet. However, re-the above quote, I'd just mention that the interpretation of colour temperature values is not quite as simple as it might seem. Even more so when you bear in mind that RAW converters from 3rd parties like Adobe or Apple are not based on the RAW conversion engine produced by the camera manufacturer - in effect they have to guess/estimate what the temp/tint values in the RAW file actually mean...
Some time back I made a series of tests using 3 Canon cameras, with ACR, Capture One & the Canon RAW converter. Each produced noticeably different results, and C1 & ACR showed quite different temp/tint values. (The Canon software only showed 'As Shot' - no values). The differences were consistent between shots from each camera (using WB values input or AWB) - but they weren't consistent from one camera to another. Which program produced the best result depended very much on the Camera/Subject/Personal taste...
Hope someone can help with Aperture specific info, I'm sure there must be a way of making camera specific adjustments to the RAW conversions...

Help! Why does Aperture automatically adjust my white balance?

Hey,
Just wondering if anybody knew why Aperture seems to want to automatically adjust the white balance settings of the RAW .NEF images I've been importing. I mean, on an example image, the in camera white balance was about 5900K with no hue adjustments, but when I imported it into aperture, it looked completely different. Sure enough, Aperture had set a color temp of 5475K and a hue of -22. If I wanted it to be adjusted, I would've asked, but I spent the time getting the white balance right in camera for a reason. I really don't want to have to go back and adjust every image manually. That would defeat the purpose. Please, lend some insight.

I have a D80. Do you think apple will eventually develop a solution to this problem, or some sort of workaround? In the meantime, might I be better off just using the proprietary software, like captureNX? Or, how about adobe camera raw?

Aperture - Nikon D2X White Balance

Apologies for posting in this forum but couldn't find one dedicated to Aperture yet.
Does anyone know if Aperture will actually decode the encrypted white balance information in Nikon NEF files from my D2X or will it make a 'best guess' for the balance based on the image contents ?
aTdHvAaNnKcSe
[email protected]

It is my understanding that Nikon will continue to keep their NEF WB data proprietary. It will probably take a hacker (not Apple) to take care of this problem.

Mass unset an adjustment (white balance), aperture 3

Hi all,
I upgraded to Aperture 3 and everything went smoothly, even the library upgrade.
Except for a small adjustment thing: After "reprocess masters" every image I had white balance set manually (most of my tens of thousands of images), looks now green. Not only slightly, everything is green. When I unclick the white balance adjustment, the picture returns to pretty much what I expected it to be (camera is Canon 5D, raw images).
Seems that Aperture 3 processes this generally better and pictures look fine without adjusting white balance.
Now the question is: how do I mass unset white balance setting for each and every image inside a project? With lift and stamp I can change white balance, but I didn't find a way to unset it completely. Manually I can uncheck the box before white balance and that does the trick, but I don't plan to click 42000 images manually.
Is there a way to batch change this? It would be easier to just unset everything, then go through the previews quickly to see if some of the photos need WB adjustment and do those few manually. I've now gone through five projects manually and have left the manual adjustment to only about ten photos with a slight modification towards purple.
/hv

Yes 5D can do that but I don't use the feature.
These are albums created ages ago with first Aperture 1 and then Aperture 2 for the newer ones. Actually, this pointed me to the right direction.
The greenness problem seems to trouble only old photos processed with Aperture 1.0 or 1.1 RAW settings. I've been processing the oldest albums first and didn't even think about this.
For 2.x photos, the reprosessing doesn't cause any greenness or other problems, and also, curiously, the "stamp default from jpg" trick works for these images just as suggested here, in case I wanted to remove the WB settings, which seems to be unnecessary.
But for 1.x raw processed photos, there is a desperate need to do something and the lift & stamp trick doesn't work.
Weird, but the problem seems to be in the fact that I never converted anything when I migrated to Aperture 2. There was no need to do anything so I just let the old ones be as they were. I tested moving to 2.0 raw with a couple of photos and I wasn't happy with the result as something in the colours and/or white balance changed and some minor adjustments would have been needed.
So thanks for your help and ideas once again. I'll leave the old ones for now as they are and hope Apple fixes this. They obviously haven't tested the migration at all with a library containing photos processed with the ancient 1.0 raw processing.
/hv

Pentax K5 / Apple Aperture - White Balance Inconsistency

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