Premiere Not Interpreting Alpha Transparency ProRes 4444

Hello,
I've imported a graphic, ProRes 4444 with an alpha channel but Premiere 6.0.2 is not reading the transparency. When I lay it on top of another clip the transparent part shows as black rather than being transparent and showing the layer underneath. It seems like the same error is happening in After Effects.
Final Cut 7 reads the transparency fine. I read that the same problem was happening on earlier versions of Premiere and After Effects.
I'm working with a Mac Pro, NVIDIA Quadro 4000, Lion.
Any suggestions?
Thanks!
Gerry

Hi,
Thanks for responding and getting back to me guys
@ Fuzzy...Trust me... I didn't think it would work...it didn't make sense to me either but I misunderstood Gerry...he doesn't know that I am operating exclusively on a PC using only PC based software...I don't have a MAC.
@ Kevin...as you have garnered by now I can't use APPLE MOTION because I am on a PC. I used Sorenson Squeeze to convert the file to an Animation File. For hours I tried importing and manipulating it in Premiere AND in After Effects with No luck whatsoever. I tried everything I could think of.
It is a virtual set and I was given 2 files:
Per instructions from a video tutorial on YouTube titled: "Adobe Premiere Tutorial Set Alpha Matte" I successfully excuted the instructions but the ALPHA STILL DIDN'T WORK:
File #1) The alpha.mov file is on VIDEO LAYER 3: > I placed a Channel> Set Matte> set to "Use For Matte" > Luminance on the VIDEO LAYER 3 alpha.mov file > Take Matte From Layer> VIDEO LAYER 2
File #2) The fullHD.mov file is on VIDEO LAYER 2
Should I send you the file to take look at Kevin?
Thanks again

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Motion will not show alpha in my 4444 file, I'm frustrated by motion....

The thing is, it seems to work on my MBP, but when opening the same project on my big MacPro, with ATI 4870 CARD, the alpha will not work at all. I get an almost black background.
No matter how I try the settings for file, it will never show me transparency/alpha. But it does it in the small preview thumbnail, but not in my canvas.
So what is wrong with motion and my ATI Radeon 4870 card....
sincerely Helge

I found the bug....!!!!
My ProRes 4444 file only shows alpha/tranparency when canvas is set to best and NOT normal...!
When watching the alpha channel, all looks good in best mode, but when switching to normal, it all goes white....!
sincerely Helge
But what is strange, this happens on to MacPros and not on my MacBookPro....
This motion program is really frustrating..... please come with a new version soon!!!!

FCP 7 will not capture 1920x1080p with Prores 4444

Normally when I capture 1080p material from our Sony HDCAM, I capture with Prores HQ, but since upgrading to FCP 7 I wanted to try the new Prores 4444 to see how much better it is and how big the files created are. But, no matter what I do when capturing the file ends up being only 960x540. All settings are 1920x1080p. What is wrong. Is it a bug?
I use Blackmagic HD capture cards.

Hmmm, I seem to remember reading similar reports about this somewhere ... will try to find them and post a link. In the meantime make sure you are running FCP 7 compatible drivers for your BMD card.
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/support/software/

More CS 5 - ProRes 4444 Alpha channel nonsense

Hi:
Quicktimes I render out of After Effects CS 5 using the ProRes 4444 codec are tagged as having an alpha channel even though my settings in the Output Module are RGB and Trillions of Colors. NOT RGB + Alpha and Trillions of Colors+. It doesn't matter whether my project is 8 bit or 16 bit.
When I bring such movies back into AE it shows them as having an alpha channel (Trillions of Colors+). If I do a Get Info in QT player it shows Millions of Colors+, and FCP shows them as having an alpha, too.
I just upgraded to Snow Leopard 10.6.8 (figured it was safe after two years) and in the process switched full time to CS 5 (I only used it in the past to open other's projects). I never had these issues with CS4. I have not installed any AJA codecs into this new OS (clean install over wiped HD).
This appears to be the opposite of the problem most have been having, which is AE won't generate an alpha in ProRes 4444 without moving codecs and other nonsense.
The reason this is a problem is because when I bring these Quicktimes with faux alphas into FCP for editing I can't export a reference movie. FCP rewrites the whole timeline.
Haven't these CS 5/ProRes 4444 codec/Alpha channel issues been going on for over a year? Do I have to buy CS 5.5 to get this to work correctly?
Thanks.
Shawn Marshall
Marshall Arts Motion Graphics

PR422HQ is way overkill for 99% of the video and film producers in the world. It's there for a specific elite of the entertainment biz, those who work in 4k on 64bit systems, I guess, that' ain't me! It's one of those "if you have to ask, you can't use it" sort of things. Anyone who uses the advanced features of the ProRes family knows why. That's the theory. In my practical experience over on the FCP forum at Apple, 99% of those using ProResHQ believe they are improving their original footage.
Apple ProRes 4444
The Apple ProRes 4444 codec offers the utmost possible quality for 4:4:4 sources and for workflows involving alpha channels. It includes the following features:
Full-resolution, mastering-quality 4:4:4:4 RGBA color (an online-quality codec for editing and finishing 4:4:4 material, such as that originating from Sony HDCAM SR or digital cinema cameras such as RED ONE, Thomson Viper FilmStream, and Panavision Genesis cameras). The R, G, and B channels are lightly compressed, with an emphasis on being perceptually indistinguishable from the original material.
Lossless alpha channel with real-time playback
High-quality solution for storing and exchanging motion graphics and composites
For 4:4:4 sources, a data rate that is roughly 50 percent higher than the data rate of Apple ProRes 422 (HQ)
Direct encoding of, and decoding to, RGB pixel formats
Support for any resolution, including SD, HD, 2K, 4K, and other resolutions
A Gamma Correction setting in the codec’s advanced compression settings pane, which allows you to disable the 1.8 to 2.2 gamma adjustment that can occur if RGB material at 2.2 gamma is misinterpreted as 1.8. This setting is also available with the Apple ProRes 422 codec.
Apple ProRes 422 (HQ)
The Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) codec offers the utmost possible quality for 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 sources (without an alpha channel) and provides the following:
Target data rate of approximately 220 Mbps (1920 x 1080 at 60i)
Higher quality than Apple ProRes 422
Apple ProRes 422
The Apple ProRes 422 codec provides the following:
Target data rate of approximately 145 Mbps (1920 x 1080 at 60i)
Higher quality than Apple ProRes 422 (LT)
Apple ProRes 422 (LT)
The Apple ProRes 422 (LT) codec provides the following:
Roughly 70 percent of the data rate of Apple ProRes 422 (thus, smaller file sizes than Apple ProRes 422)
Higher quality than Apple ProRes 422 (Proxy)
Apple ProRes 422 (Proxy)
The Apple ProRes 422 (Proxy) codec is intended for use in offline workflows and provides the following:
Roughly 30 percent of the data rate of Apple ProRes 422
High-quality offline editing at the original frame size, frame rate, and aspect ratio
High-quality edit proxy for Final Cut Server
The Apple ProRes family of codecs provides these advantages:
Quality indistinguishable from that of the most pristine sources: Maintains superb quality even after multiple encoding/decoding generations.
Mastering-quality 4:4:4:4 RGBA: Provides a lossless alpha channel with real-time playback (Apple ProRes 4444 only). Mastering-quality 4:4:4 Y′CBCRcolor and 4:2:2 Y′CBCR color are also available.
The quality of uncompressed HD at data and storage rates lower than those of uncompressed SD: Provides real-time editing performance comparable to or better than that of any other HD codecs in Final Cut Pro.
Apple ProRes encoding at any frame size—SD, HD, 2K, 4K, or other: Apple ProRes codecs can also be encoded into nonstandard frame sizes, but nonstandard frame sizes are not supported for real-time playback in Final Cut Pro.
Variable bit rate (VBR) encoding: “Smart” encoding analyzes the image. Efficiency is increased because excess bits are not wasted on simple frames.
10-bit sample depth: Preserves subtle gradients of 10-bit sources (sunsets, graphics, and the like) with no visible banding artifacts. When you import a file using an Apple ProRes codec, you don’t have to first determine whether the file is an 8-bit or 10-bit file. Apple ProRes codecs always preserve the bit depth of your original source files.
I-frame–only (intraframe) encoding: Ensures consistent quality in every frame, with no artifacts from complex motion, and speeds up editing.
Fast encoding and decoding: Delivers high-quality, real-time playback and faster rendering times.
Equipment affordability: Because of low bit rates, you can edit more streams with more real-time effects on slower drives, or have more users accessing the same media over shared storage devices.
Workflow options for any video format that does not have native Final Cut Pro support: The Apple ProRes format provides an effective workflow for projects involving multiple acquisition formats when you want to standardize on a single codec.
Better rendering for native editing: Can be used to render long-GOP MPEG-2 formats (such as HDV and XDCAM HD) to speed up editing and avoid MPEG-2 reencoding artifacts before output.

CS5.5 | ProRes 4444 - Interpret Footage does NOT see Alpha Channel

I thought this problem would have been taken care of by now.
Guess the bug fixes in CS5.5 are few if at all
1) Export any movie to ProRes 4444 and set to export alpha channel straight.
2) re-import to AE
3) Open Interpret Footage Dialog....
One gets REALLY disillusioned when discovering that ALL alpha options have been grayed out.
When is this ProRes MADNESS going to STOP !!!!!

Dan,
if you are ever in Hamburg, Germany. Let me know and the brews are on ME.
In my testing madness I exported a movie WITH NO ALPHA.... That is the reason why I was NOT seeing any alpha options on import.
I dup'ed the vid layer and moved it about and set the opacity to 50... Then exported. And imported. And THERE they were ....
LE ALPHA OPTIONS....
Best Regards
M.

Motion 4 Prores 4444 alpha not showing up in Motion answered

Hi,
I recently exported a Prores 4444 from Motion and when bringing it back in there was no transparency. I found the same issue in this discussion, and it was marked unanswered. It has been answered, but a clarification needs to be added and I was unable to reply to the discussion for whatever reason. A 1 pixel crop is the answer BUT it must be applied at the Media level and not the layer level.
http://discussions.info.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=10487207
Hope this helps the next poor soul who scratches their head and wonders why wont motion just work sometimes...

Yes, thanks - weird one, but I'll try and remember it...
Patrick

CS5: ProRes 4444 Alpha issue rears it head again in a strange way

So here's a strange one: I've found that if the first frame of a composition is completely opaque (such as using a solid to fade from black) then any QT Movie rendered with ProRes 4444 + Alpha will not include an alpha channel. I've replicated it on multiple machines and triple checked my MediaCoreQTCodecRulesCS5.xml to ensure that it's correct. Here's the steps to recreate this:
create a new comp (Project bit depth = 16bpc)
create a new solid with the same dimensions as the comp
at Frame 0 create a keyframe for the Solid's opacity (Keep it at 100%)
move down 5 frames in the comp and create a new keyframe by setting the Solid's opacity to 0%
set the work area to 1 second
Render a movie using ProRes 4444 RBG+Alpha
The resulting movie will have no Alpha channel. If you watch the movie being rendered with Caps Lock off and 'Toggle Transparency Grid' active, then you can see the alpha channel while the render is going. If you render using Animation Compression RGB+Alpha, it will be correct. You can also replace the solid with footage as long as the first frame of the rendered comp is completely opaque and the issue is still there. Move the solid or footage down in the time line 1 frame so the first frame of the comp has a transparent alpha channel, then the movie rendered from that will be correct. This has only been tested and confirmed on the Mac and only CS5. If anyone can test and confirm the PC CS5 and Mac & PC CS5.5 it would be greatly appreciated.

You've found a bug. I'm not sure where the problem is. If I render out an image sequence or an Animation Codec file, then drop it in Media Encoder or Compressor to render a ProRez 444 with alpha channel I occasionally get the bug. You can't tell anything from the Quicktime Player but you can see the error in AE.
I discovered that if you put one even partially transparent pixel anywhere in the frame the alpha renders perfectly, but as you pointed out, when the first frame or few frames have a 0 alpha value the renders are funky. I just don't know if it's AE's problem, Adobe's problem, or an Apple problem because I can break it in compressor or Media Encoder or I can make it work in either.
I'd file a bug.

ProRes 4444 with BOTH Alpha Channel AND Timecode?

Recently did a large project of creating alpha channels from green screen footage.
Made the timelines 4444 and tried to output.
If I export as Quicktime, I get the timecode but not the Alpha channel.
If I export as Quicktime Conversion, I can get the Alpha channel, but not the timecode.
Am I doing something fundamentally wrong?
Is there a way to get both on the same output?
Like I said, this project is large -- 91 files -- and it takes more than 8 hours to export out either way even on a current 6 core machine.
What I really do NOT want to have to do is some crazy copy and paste of the timecode information from two separate exports.

You said, "'export as Quicktime' is a very vague description."
Actually, it's not.
A person only has a few choices in Final Cut Pro. If you want to get really specific;
File > Export > QuckTime Movie...
Or
File > Export > Using QuickTime Conversion...
That's it!
With the first and ONLY the first, it will export whatever is on your timeline and you can get Timecode, but I can't figure out a way to make it output the Alpha channel with it.
With the other, you can get any sort of converted output you can input, including ProRes 4444 and Alpha, but unfortunately not the Timecode track.
UNLESS some Guru out there knows some sort of trick.
I'm hoping to find somebody that knows one.

Problems with Apple ProRes 4444 and alpha channels in Motion 4 after upgrade to Snow Leopard. Has anyone seen this?

We've just now upgraded from Leopard to Snow Leopard and are having a problem with Apple ProRes 4444 and alpha channels in Motion 4. A clip with an alpha which keyed perfectly before the upgrade, now will not key. If I convert the clip to the Animation codec, it keys perfectly. If I export the Motion project as a ProRes 4444 self contained movie, it will key when brought into FCP 7 but if I import the project into FCP 7, it will show the key in the viewer but not the canvas. Has anyone seen this or have any suggestions on how to correct this? Is it a bug?
Thanks,

Motion 4.0.3
It just doesn't seem to recognize the alpha at all.

Premiere CC eating up memory while playing back ProRes 4444

We are editing footage shot on the Amira on two Mac Pros with Premiere Pro CC 2014.
One of the Macs plays back the native footage fine at half resolution. Looking at the activity monitor, the whole system is using about 12GB of RAM and stays there.
However, the other Mac seems to be gobbling up RAM very fast during playback until it hits the ceiling and everything starts to slow down and seize up. It will only release the RAM after quitting the program or forcing OS X to purge it.
I’ve posted the specs for each Mac below.
A few other things to note:
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- Disabling LUTs does not seem to fix the problem
- Replacing the ProRes 4444 footage with ProRes Proxy fixes the problem, but with 120 hours of footage, this not an ideal solution as we are in the middle of an edit
- The bad Mac is showing an error in the Activity Monitor (Adobe QT32 server not responding)
- Removing plugins from Library/Quicktime does not fix the problem
Any help or thoughts would be much appreciated!
Thanks,
Paul

Hey Sam... just wondering if you ever figured this problem out. I have the exact same problem, albeit with FCPX XML's. It's driving me bonkers and nobody seems to know. Any insight would be truly appreciated. Thanks.

Alpha channel and ProRes 4444

I have a number of AE files that I would like to render in Media Encoder with their alpha channels using the ProRes 4444 codec. I cannot figure out how to make ME give me an alpha channel. If I render in AE, I get the alpha channel without a problem. How can I get ME to give me an alpha channel? I am using ME 2014 on a Mac.

Hi Remy,
Choose QuickTime. Then from the list of formats in the Video tab, choose ProRes 4444. Scroll down to "Depth" and choose 32 bit. This will allow you to export with an alpha channel.
Thanks,
Kevin

Rendering to ProRes 4444 with alpha channel

Hello Everybody,
I have question? I have a green screen project finished. But when i render my footage to ProRes 4444 with aplha i got a mega file more then 5gb. In the specifications I found out that I have a bitrate of 203,57 Mbit/s. How can i lower the bitrate in the rendersettingd for this codec?
I hop to hear some of your suggestions.
Kind regards,
Gowan Genis

What Andrew said.... Production codecs are all going to have high data rates. That's why we use them in production. Storage is so cheap now that it shouldn't be a problem for anyone that is making a living making movies or for anyone with enough budget to support a movie making hobby. My first 4GB Ultra SCSI drive array cost nearly $20K, I just bought a 1.5TB drive for $89... It wasn't that long ago that I was paying $1 / foot to shoot, process, work print and sync 35MM film. (98 feet / minute @ 24 fps).
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Exporting Alpha Transparency for a PC from motion5...?

I am trying to export alpha transparency for a lower third I've done in Motion5.
I know that proress422(proxy) can be used , but this does not import well into my PC (premiere pro).
Is there anyway of creating alpha transparency from m5 so that my PC will happily recognise it ?
thanks,

If you're using Alpha for *anything* -- you must use ProRes 4444 (if Premiere will accept it.) It is the only ProRes that supports transparency and the only export option in Motion 5 that supports transparency. (Older versions of Motion could export with the "Animation" codec which also supported transparency.)
If Premiere (on the PC) doesn't handle ProRes 4444, then
You can export just the alpha channel from Motion and use a "Track Matte Key" in Premiere (as I *understand* it -- I've never used premiere.)
On export, go under the Render options panel and set Color: to Alpha (default is Color + Alpha).
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HTH

MOTION IS NOT READING ALPHA CORRECTLY (Frustrated, Please Help)

I've exported a file with an alpha channel from Motion 4, and when I pull it into another project, it is not recognizing the alpha channel. In the project tab area, it displays with a checkerboard as if it has alpha ... I've checked the alpha interpretation ... but in the MAIN project window, all I see is black where the alpha should be (not the desired background on the layer below it. I've checked every suggestion that I've been able to find in these forums, and no one seems to have an answer. Am I the only one having this problem? I'm ready to scrap Motion and go back to After Effects over this.

Thank you to those who replied. By further process of elimination I have discovered that Motion does not recognize the ProRes 4444 Alpha Channel. When using a clip with the Animation Codec, it reads the alpha channel perfectly. The ProRes 4444 Clips I exported from Motion with Alpha work perfectly in After Effects ... so clearly Apple has a bug to fix

Red to proRes 4444+ in Media encoder

hello
I'm working Red Shots shooting on green screen. I keyed with the ultrakey in premiere and I'd like to export the result in Prores 4444 with alpha to edit more freely in a low HD resolution.
The problem is that I can't find the way,( like in After) to check the rgb + alpha button in Media encoder.
Could I find a similar way to export the sequence in a movie and not in a image sequence ?
Do I miss something?
Thank you

Thank you for your answer.
In Prores 4444 + you have to check the "depth 64 bit"
In animation codec you have to check the depth 32 bit.
It's not so clear than after.
I've tryed, it's working but my alphachanel get out BLUE???!!
Is it normal?
thanks

Premiere Not Interpreting Alpha Transparency ProRes 4444

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