Reverse Telecine...

Hello, I have a project that was shot on a XL2 in 24p. What I want to do is import the footage to an external drive and then reverse telecine it then edit it. How do I once I've imported the footage to the external drive do I reverse telecine it?
Thanks!

Broadcast how? Digibeta? Digibeta doesn't run at 23.98. HD does.
Getting 23.98 back to 29.97 is tricky, and if it works, it might not give a desired result.
My general rule is that if you shot 24p, then edit in a 29.97 timeline. 24PA is for the 23.98 timeline...and really meant for DVD, web and possible HD bump only. Not meant to go back to tape.
Shane

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Reverse Telecine affecting identical clips different ways

I haven't a clue on how to begin searching for this.
I recently had a problem trying to get my Sony HZ5U 24p footage to true 24p instead of 30. It was causing big confusion in Color, blending frames together. Even though I placed the footage in a 24p sequence, it would just frames in unnecessary spots. And Reverse Telecine wouldn't work on footage imported by HDV - 720p24.
I was able to import to HDV-Apple ProRes 422 1080p24, Reverse Telecine, and add the clips into a HDV- 720p24 sequence to get the resolution I need...
Except there's a problem.
Something isn't working when I reverse telecine.
The clips I imported were all 2:3, two frames of the same then three others that were individual.
I "reversed" two clips which came out to 1:1 (I guess), no frames are duplicated. But a few of the clips I reversed came out to 2:2! There are two frames of the same then two others that are individual.
I'm not sure what is wrong. I didn't import with a different setting, I didn't change anything in Final Cut, I didn't adjust anything in Cinema Tools. I never filmed in a separate format...
I have a consistent segment I have to make each week for a program, and it's done this for the past three weeks. And on one of the clips (either the one with 1:1 or 2:2) after I send back from Color the audio is shifted off a few frames.
Why would Reverse Telecine give me different results in the same operation of the same format of video??

remove the "/" in your file name. that happened to me too. Renamer4Mac is a great free utility that may help you.

Reverse telecine and final cut

hi. hope the gurus can help.
we shot a short with dvx 100a. we shot on 24p (NORMAL). I am trying to create a 23.98 workflow for the video. all the footage was captured in DV NTSC, and used cinema tools to Reverse Telecine. here come the issues: how do I know which "capture mode" the DVX uses? also which "Style." I tried different settings, and the strange part is that some settings work for some clips while others work for other clips, even though all clips were captured the same way. when i say worked, i mean some showed obvious "flicker" or "ghosting" and some were fantastic. all this on a 23.98 timeline in FCP.
please help,
thanks
liron

when i look at the counter on the original tape, how
would i be able to tell if it was shot in 24p or any
other settings?
yep, it's not in the manual and i found this one day long ago when i got my dvx just after they were first released: open the lcd and on the bottom towards the lens there is the counter button. with the camera in vtr mode and playing the tape, toggle that counter button and you'll get a wealth of info including what framerate the video was shot with.
as for the reverse telecine, how can one determine
what "capture mode" was used? apple suggests a burned
tc, but i do not have that off the dvx.
dude, as far as a reverse telecine, that is determined by which mode was used to photograph with the camera. with fcp 4 you only use cinema tools for 24p standard video but i understand with the latest version of cinema tools you can use for 24P and 24PA, but i've not tried this.
i'd advise you to do a little research. the fcp production studio has a great appendix on 24p material and also go here http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/index.html and here http://www.kenstone.net/fcphomepage/24p_in_FCPnattress.html
good luck.

Reverse Telecine error

Does any one know what an "Error-43" means in the reverse telecine log? I am not able to batch reverse or single clip reverse any of my clips. The process stops 3/4 of the way through, I have tried many different clips and settings but keep getting error -43 in the log....?

remove the "/" in your file name. that happened to me too. Renamer4Mac is a great free utility that may help you.

Reverse Telecine in Cinema Tools

My 24p fcp project is finished and I need to reverse telecine it to get rid of the ugly interlacing. How do I do this?
I've tried importing the movie into Cinema Tools and it keeps crashing. When I import the whole thing as a single clip (QT Movie), the Reverse Telecine button isn't available.
Also, why can't I import an mpeg-2 clip?
I'm using Cinema Tools 2.2, in case this has something to do with it.
Thanks in advance.

Oh, and Mr. Gilman was saying that there will be interlacing no matter what if it's on DVD or Beta? Why is this?
It's what I was trying to tell you when I said If tape, you need the pulldown anyway. If DVD, the pulldown would be added by the player.
You have to understand where the interlacing is coming from. It is coming from the pulldown inserted to bring the fps from 24 to 30...
Google reveals these Pulldown explanation pages:
http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/#24pRecording
http://home.aol.com/ajaynejr/pulldown.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24p
http://www.zerocut.com/tech/pulldown.html
http://www.denecke.com/24pinfo.htm
here's a visual representation of 24P with pulldown added to be recorded on a 29.97 tape (this is how all feature films are broadcast on NTSC)
You can see from this image that two frames BC and CD are interlaced - that is, they are made up of two fields taken from different frames. When a DVD has 24fps material on it, the DVD player automatically inserts this pulldown to bring it up to 30 fps so it can be shown on a regular TV.
Now. I believe your problem may stem from an incorrect field order, but first I want to ask - When you created your export of your movie that you fed into DVDSP to make your DVD, did you try importing it into FCP and playing it back on your TV. Did it look okay then?
Patrick

Reverse Telecine Question (Cinema Tools)

Dear board members,
I have footage that was shot with Panasonic AG-HVX200 in 1080i60 (29.97fps), but with 24p function with a 2:3 pulldown. When I ingest it in FCP through Log and Transfer this footage (for some peculiar reason) shows up as 1080p30. I also need to remove pulldown to make it 24 (23,98) FPS.
My workaround is as follows:
1) I export these files from FCP as DVCPRO HD 1080i60 QT files.
2) then I send these new "masters" to Cinema Tools, where I do Reverse Telecine process.
The results looks fine, but I just want to double-check my settings in Cinema Tools, because the batch for this job contains thousands of clips and there is no room for mistake.
Reverse Telecine in Cinema Tools settings:
Capture Mode:
Field 1 - Field 2
Fields:
AA
File:
New (smaller)
Frames:
Conform to: 23.98 FPS
Standard Upper/Lower: Checked
Thank you very much for your time and (hopefully) helpful comments.
Regards,
Tim

I just did a test yesterday with MXFX software and there is a visible recompression in the resulting file. I compared the same frame (from different clips) processed through Cinema Tools and MXFX and also compared it to the original frame and MXFX clearly does something to the image (recompression or noise reduction, whatever you want to call it). Contacted them about it, they said they will look at it. Anyhow, the result is pretty visible at 200% zoom. Anyhow, that made me decide against MXFX.
Thanks for a suggestion though.

Adding flags to a Panasonic 1200 deck for reverse telecine in post?

I am doing a telecine of some 16mm film. We are dumping it as 720p DVCPRO HD with a rented Panasonic 1200 deck. I did this last time and everything looks great except I had major issues turning my 59.94 source material to 23.98 material [reverse telecine] in post. Is there a settingt on the 1200 deck to tell it to flag the frames as they do with the varicam so I can do a really easy frame excraction within Final Cut Pro or Cinema Tools? Hit me back with any info if you got it ... thanks!!!

Thanks for the clip. That helps a lot.
This confirmed what I thought. You cannot Reverse Telecine something at 59.94. Cinema Tools is designed for footage telecined at 29.97...NTSC. It doesn't recognize 59.94 as NTSC because that is an HD frame rate, not an SD one. Cinema Tools was designed for SD.
For 59.94 footage, what I have beed doing is either just dropping it into a 23.98 timeline and rendering, or using the Nattress Film Converter to get it from 59.94 to 23.98. Both look great...but require timeline rendering.
So what you CAN do is drop all this footage into a 23.98 timeline, render or apply the filter...render and export as a self contained QT Movie. But then you lose valuable TC. Best bet would be to drop it into the timeline and just render.
I put it here for you to see and download if need be:
http://homepage.mac.com/comeback/.Movies/16mmTestCONV.mov
Shane

Reverse Telecine On Finished Edit, Or Only Original Clips?

Can a reverse telecine be performed on a finished edit? (By this, I mean an uncompressed export from FCP). Or can this only be done on the original clips?
I am editing a short shot on S16mm. The negative was telecined, output to miniDV, then captured in FCP using a Panasonic DVX-100.

hello john,
if you work with the material as is (ie 29.97) and create a timeline, then export that and attempt a reverse telecine on it, you will find that cinema tools can't handle it. the cadence of the 3:2 field rhythms will change from clip to clip (unless you are crazy lucky). so you'll end up with some shots looking fine and others incorrectly converted.
best to do all material up front to edit in 23.98 timelines (or stay in 29.97, though this is a less favoured option for me).
R.

Reverse telecine of filmtotape transfer?

So I've got 2 35mm films from the 80's that were transferred to HD (29.97) and then downconverted to DigiBeta and then captured to 8 bit uncompressed 4:2:2 and put on a drive for me. I'd like to remove the pulldown so that I can up the bitrate for maximum quality and maximum compatability. The cinema tools manual is unclear on how to figure out the cadence without a "window." Do I just keep trying different options in the reverse telecine path in cinematools until I get a clean output at 23.9 whatever it's supposed to be or is there some trick to this?

So I just kept trying different options til I got one that exported a clean 23.9 whatever quicktime. I took a section from the beginning for a couple of minutes so it included a section with a lot of horizontal motion. If anyone's interested, the settings were F1-F2, Conform to 23.98, Standard upper/lower, Fields DD, Style 1. Don't have a clue what Fields DD and Style 1 mean but I assume it has to do with the cadence of the 3:2 pulldown. Once I had a clean test section, I exported the whole film. It'll be interesting to see if the other film works with the same settings.

Reverse Telecine Nightmare - 16mm - Please help...

I´m working for the first time in Brazilian Cinema as a assistent editor and i`m having a serious problem with Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine.
I´ve read the manual but I can´t get any solution.
We shoot the movie in 16mm with an Aaton minima camera.
The telecine was made to dv tapes.
I´ve created a database in Cinema tools with the flex files, exported a xml to final cut and batch captured.
My problem is:
When I use the Cinema tools reverse telecine and open my clip in Final Cut (6.0.3), it still contain fields and I can´t read the letters of the window burn
The field pattern is A2 B2 C1 D1 D3 -- Field 2 only as we can read in the manual.
I´m reversing for 23.98 fps
I´ve tried with the "Standard upper/lower" checked and unchecked with no positive results... When I open in the Final Cut, in a 23.98 project, and see the clip
frame by frame, I can´t read the letters and there is fields... I´ve tried the other options too... But the pull down is always there
In page 132 of Cinema tools manual,you can read in the "Check telecine results" session ---> "each letter should be clearly legible..."
That´s my nightmare... What should I do? Can anyone give me a solution for this problem??
Thanks for reading...

Ugh - single field telecine.
I've never had to put single field video through Cinema Tools so I shouldn't be commenting - but I happen to know that another guy with a -similar- but different problem with single field telecine video in CT set his field dominance to F1-F2, and got usable video. Thought I'd mention it.
See here: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1563046&tstart=13
Single field telecine isn't that complicated, it should be easy for CT to just remove the extra field from the sequence. Make sure you're starting on an A frame (or field, in your case, I suppose.)
Again, never done single field video in CT, so feel free to ignore me completely.

Reverse Telecine with Premiere Pro

Hi All,
I had digibeta tapes that I captured at 740x486 and the client wanted us to do a reverse telecine on them which I did by creating a 24p DV timeline, dropping the video in and than outputed the timesline with the settings of Prores HQ (required), 720x480, 23.976, Progressive, DV/D1 .9091. The output definite did not look interlaced but a couple issues
a) Media Inspector the progressive flag is not appearing. It does not read the video as progressive.
b) Opening it in QT player it stated it as 720x480(654x480) and I need the display ratio to be 640x480 not 654x480.
c) Last they commented "There might be clean aperture tag, but just let them know the clap tag must be removed." which I have no idea what they are talking about here and would like some insight.
Thank you all for reading and any help is deeply appreciated here.
-john

After you get the footage to 24 frames (23.976), will the video be identified by media inspector as progressive scan?
If you have properly removed the 3:2 pulldown, it should.
But, you can trust what Premiere tells you.
Select the clip in the Project Panel and check the 'Info':
The 'p' denotes progressive scan.
note:
I don't use media inspector (I'm on pc).

Reverse Telecine Question

I'm testing "Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine" from the FCP Tools menu with NTSC DV media and related 35mm Telecine Logs (flxs). The resulting 24fps QTs show proper KeyCode info in overlays and original lab burn-ins but Video TC looses sync between overlays and burn-ins and only catch up at frame 00 of each second. I couldn't find any info about this in FCP's or Cinema Tools help files. Somehow it feels like I'm doing something wrong.
Video TC looses sync after reverse telecine while Keycode remains consistent? Any pointers are appreciated. Thanks a lot!

The video TC burn-in is 30 fps, since there was no 24-frame video to reference during telecine. The keycode is, of course, 24 fps. You now only have 24 frames of video, so the keycode is going to work right, but the video timecode rate has been converted to 24fps. You have two options. You can just ignore the difference in the frame counts (since it matches up on the 00 then you know you're fine) or you can work with a 30 fps timecode rate. Even though there are only 24 frames of video per second, the count will go up to 29. It will just skip numbers along the way in order to get there. That way it should match up with your burned-in timecode, and the actual timecode on the tapes. I think the best way to do that is to start by creating a Cinema Tools database that has the default video TC rate set to 30 NDF. Then do a batch reverse telecine on your clips from within the Cinema Tools application. I think that will create video clips with a 30 fps TC rate.

Reverse telecine of quicktime file

I am trying to reverse telecine a clip from 29.97 to 23.98
The clip is a flash animation converted to quicktime file.
Cinema tools wont open the file.
Any suggestions?

So I just kept trying different options til I got one that exported a clean 23.9 whatever quicktime. I took a section from the beginning for a couple of minutes so it included a section with a lot of horizontal motion. If anyone's interested, the settings were F1-F2, Conform to 23.98, Standard upper/lower, Fields DD, Style 1. Don't have a clue what Fields DD and Style 1 mean but I assume it has to do with the cadence of the 3:2 pulldown. Once I had a clean test section, I exported the whole film. It'll be interesting to see if the other film works with the same settings.

Reverse Telecine and Temporal Compression

I'm currently editing on a FCP (5.1.4) 23.97fps timeline and have some secondary footage from a canon HV20 that I'd like to use as well. It's already captured, and I want to use a reverse telecine transfer so I can import it to my timeline conformed at the proper rate.
I tried using cinema tools (3) to perform this; first by importing just one clip, but the "rev telecine..." button couldn't be selected, so I tried to batch reverse telecine the clip but was given the error message 'temporal compression'.
I am sure that the footage captured on the HV20 was with the 24 option, so I'm not sure why I'm having and issue. Any advice would be appreciated. The more step-by-step the better.
Thanks!

With Final Cut 5 you need to use Cinema tools after converting every clip to Apple Intermediate Codec (AIC). This is a manual process that you must repeat for each clip. Each time you start and stop the HV20 recording you get a separate clip so if you did a lot of starting and stopping you'll be busy for a while. I did this process as an exercise more than a year ago and was successful but I don't recall the details. I did a Google search for "reverse telecine HV20" and found this article http://www.hdforindies.com/2007/07/working-with-24p-from-canon-hv20.html
I think I found my method on the Canon HV20 forum http://dvinfo.net/conf/canon-vixia-hv40-hv30-hv20-hv10/ back then.
I'm not sure but I think you may need to recapture your footage using the 60i setting in Final Cut. I don't know what Final Cut does to 60i footage captured using the 23.98 setting. You might just be able to change the setting to 29.97 on the captured clips. Worth a try maybe.
Good luck.

Reverse telecine problems with 24pA setting

Just bought a sony v1u and shot with the 24pA setting. i brought it into FCP with the 1080i60 Easy Setup. Dragged the source file into cinematools to get the reverse telecine and it is grayed out. When i tried a batch reverse telecine, it said something about temporal compression and error. any ideas?

I don't believe you can use Cinema Tools to Reverse Telecine HDV material...
Patrick

Reverse Telecine...

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