Satellite 1410-604 - BIOS update Incorrect BIOS update in the web?

Question

Hi there again!
Now with a new and weird matter.
We all know that old say... "If it is not break, don't fix it". And if you put it into more informatic terms, "specially if it is a BIOS".
Yes, we all know that the BIOS is something quite dellitate to handle. For some reason we normally feel like if we were handling something like nitro-glycerine, or some radioactive product. And this is because we all know what is being put in risk in that moment: our (or sometimes others) computer, the full system could end as dead as some pieces of metal, plastic, and wires.
Well. I passed through all of that more than ten times in my life, and only once it went wrong. But since that old motherboard was already dead, It was not important. But I allways was EXTREMELY care. I allways cross checked everything before doing anything, allways got a backup and a way to restore that backup... and allways did this in COMPAQ systems, that were prepared that way. Updating a BIOS was just about preparing a disk, turn on the PC with the disk in the diskette drive, and wait. And if you didn't like the results, you simply click "return to previus BIOS" and that was it... very nice. And easy.
Few days ago, a friend brought me a Toshiba Satellite 1410-604 to solve some issues that were driving him crazy. After removing an expired Norton Internet Security, install avast and scan, I found more than one hundred files infected with a wide variety of virus, malware, trojans, and whatever you could imagine. Avast removed them all, but the remains of the operating system was so unstable that we decide to format and install from scratch.
I asked for the restoration disks, that obviously he don't have because they were lost in one of his movings. After we got the confirmation from Toshiba reps that there are no recovery disk available for this model, because it is too old, we decided to install from scratch like any other normal PC, and resigned to loose some of the utilities that come with that CDs and that are not available for download in the website.
I downloaded all of the software available for this model, including two BIOS updates. (Actually only one update, but in two versions: Windows and Traditional), and prepared a CD with all the drivers and programs just like if it were a brand new system install. And everything went very well, no problems at all. Until we got to the Wireless LAN card, but that is another issue that is already solved (the mini PCI card for the WLAN does not support WEP or WAP encription, and it is not possible to connect to any wireless LAN encripted).
At this point, and when I started configuring and enabling PCMCIA devices, and USB devices (this computer only supports USB 1.1 not 2.0) I discovered this text in the Toshiba Website:
"This Bios Update adds increased functionality to your system.
(BIOS is an acronym for Basic Input and Output System. This program is stored in a Read-Only Memory chip on the motherboard.
When the computer powers up, the BIOS is launched to perform various start-up functions.)
For detailed update information please refer to Toshiba BIOS-Update Information"
(you can find this here:
[http://eu.computers.toshiba-europe.com/innovation/download_drivers_bios.jsp?service=EU] you have to look for:
Archive
Satellite
Satellite 14xx
Satellite 1410-604
PS141E
Quite specific. Isn't it?)
According to the information in that same website, the BIOS available fits the following models:
"Satellite 2410-414, Satellite 1410, Satellite 1410-654S, Satellite 1410-814, Satellite 2410-303, Satellite 2410-304S, Satellite 1410-354, Satellite 2410-601, Satellite 1410-401, {color:#ff0000}*Satellite 1410-604*{color}, Satellite 2410-404, Satellite 1410-301, Satellite 1410-304, Satellite 2410-S403, Satellite Pro 2100, Satellite 1410-S203, Satellite 2410-304, Satellite 1410-554, Satellite 1410-S102, Satellite 1410-354E, Satellite 2410-703, Satellite 1410-303, Satellite 2410-S203, Satellite 1410-801, Satellite 2410-603, Satellite 1410-902, Satellite 1410-313, Satellite 1410-802, Satellite 1410-714, Satellite 2410-354, Satellite 2410-514, Satellite 1410-614, Satellite 1410-704, Satellite 2410-515, Satellite 2410-504, Satellite 2410-702, Satellite 1410-S103"
Yes... it's there!
Now, when you go to the "Toshiba BIOS-Update Information", you get:
"FAQ Ref.: TRO0000000b07
A BIOS update is a {color:#ff0000}*relatively simple operation and can be carried out by most competent computer users*{color}. All BIOS upgrades can be obtained from "BIOS Update" Download Section click here..
Note: The BIOS files are machine specific so the correct BIOS for your machine must be used."
Please note that Toshiba does not disencourage the handling of BIOS, on the contrary: they even encourage people to do so. This is not necessary bad, but at the same time they encourage people to 'play around' with such a delicate matter, at the end of that same page, in little letters they say:
"Toshiba provides this information "as is" {color:#ff0000}*without warranty of any kind*{color}, either expressed or implied, including, but not limited to, the implied warranties of merchantability or fitness for a particular purpose. Toshiba shall not be responsible for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of the information provided. {color:#ff0000}*Toshiba is not liable for any damage caused by the use of any information provided, including information that is incomplete or incorrect*{color}."
This should trigger yellow alarms in our minds.
+"Human error is inherent to humans, and it is not possible to erradicate. It will allways appear, sooner or later" (Prof. James Reason).+
And finally I made the mistake. Even though I read that warning, I remembered all those successfull BIOS update with COMPAQ, and relied in Toshiba. That update was available there, and Toshiba was telling me that it was for this computer. Great!
So finally I unplugged all devices (USB), removed the PCMCIA (WLAN),plugged the battery charger to avoid any possible battery problem, restarted windows, and then from within windows I started the updater (windows version, as recommended by Toshiba). Everithing looked fine, nothing different of what I used to see on those old COMPAQs.
As warned by the updating program, the system was going to reboot. And actually it did so.
Windows closed quite normally (a bit quicker than normal, but without errors, and since there were no other programs than the essentials -even the antivirus was not running-), the computer switched of, all lights off (normal), and then it switched on again...
{color:#0000ff}*BEEEEEEEEEEEEP... BEEEP... BEEEEP...*{color}
OMG! I never espected something THAT bad. 3-1-1!
And now... What a 3-1-1 stands for here? Award BIOS would mean no video card or deffective video card, but it is not true, since it was working up to 20 seconds ago. It must be the BIOS.
It never came again to life. It is still beeping 3-1-1.
But now comes the investigation of the human-factors involved in this accident.
I found I commited the following failures:
*(1)* To rely in the manufacturer, even though they WROTE their information could be wrong or incomplete. (BAD if I were a QA&QC inspector).
*(2)* I didn't cross checked deeply enough (until it was already too late).
*(3)* I didn't looked previously for the way to make a backup of the BIOS, in order to restore should anything go wrong.
*(4)* Let Toshiba lead me to a path I didn't want to walk, just because of their offer of "increased functionality".
*(5)* Beleave in Toshiba when they said "relatively simple operation and can be carried out by most competent computer users"... they never said it is failproof.
Then I started the most interesting part of the investigation.
{color:#0000ff}*"What went wrong?"*{color}
Obviously, the BIOS update failed somehow, somewhere. And I wanted to know what and where.
First thing I discovered was that there are another search engine in Toshiba called "askiris" ([http://askiris.toshiba.com]) and I looked there in order to see if for any chance I could get the old 1.20 BIOS version that was installed originally in that machine.
And I found something... VERY interesting:
bq. {color:#800080}*From: * \\ {color}{color:#800080}* ACPI Flash BIOS version 1.10 for Satellite 1410/1415/2410* \\ {color}{color:#800080}* bios for these models. TAIS. Downloads. DL. 105481 289838 289838 ACPI Flash BIOS version 1.10 for Satellite 1410/1415/2410. 2002-10-04. 105589...* \\ {color}{color:#800080}* Published 10/4/02* \\ {color}{color:#800080}* From: * \\ {color}{color:#800080}* ACPI Flash BIOS version 1.40 for Satellite 1410/1415/2410/2415* \\ {color}{color:#800080}* FDD Version 1.30 TAIS. Downloads. DL. 105481 357972 357972 ACPI Flash BIOS version 1.40 for Satellite 1410/1415/2410/2415. 2003-01-31. 105589 PUB...* \\ {color}{color:#800080}* Published 1/31/03 | Rating:* \\ {color}{color:#800080}* From: * \\ {color}{color:#800080}* ACPI Flash BIOS version 1.20 for Satellite 1410/2410* \\ {color}{color:#800080}* error message during BIOS TAIS. Downloads. DL. 105481 305240 305240 ACPI Flash BIOS version 1.20 for Satellite 1410/2410. 2002-11-01. 105589 PUB...* \\ {color}{color:#800080}* Published 11/1/02 | Rating:* \\ {color}{color:#800080}* From: * \\ {color}{color:#800080}* ACPI Flash BIOS version 1.30 for Satellite 1410/1415/2410* \\ {color}{color:#800080}* 1) Changed the content TAIS. Downloads. DL. 105481 330963 330963 ACPI Flash BIOS version 1.30 for Satellite 1410/1415/2410. 2003-01-03. 105589...* \\ {color}{color:#800080}* Published 1/3/03 | Rating:* {color}
Those are: V110, V140, V120 and V130 for series 1410/15 and 2410.
GOOD! Or not?
Let's take a look:
First thing I did was download everything all four files.
Then I took the same version that made the crash: 1.40
Than I uncompressed the file, and I found:
06/05/2009 00:17 <DIR> .
06/05/2009 00:17 <DIR> ..
31/01/2003 08:38 1,605,632 11410v14.iso
31/01/2003 08:38 511,764 1370D14.EXE
{color:#ff0000}*08/01/2003 17:03 724,480 2410a9v140.exe*{color}
09/01/2003 09:32 250,663 biofca9t.com
08/10/2002 05:26 30,697 chgbiosa.exe
31/01/2003 08:36 1,087 instinfo.bat
13/05/2002 15:25 378,175 launcher.exe
31/01/2003 08:36 433 launcher.ini
06/05/2009 00:17 0 list.txt
31/01/2003 08:36 14,768 readme.com
*{color:#ff0000}31/01/2003 08:36 12,513 readme.txt{color}*
11 archivos 3,530,212 bytes
3 dirs 9,404,600,320 bytes libres
And I got my first surprise here: There is a {color:#ff0000}*README.TXT*{color} that was not present in the file I downloaded previously from the drivers repository.
So I went to the readme.txt and I found this:
"README.TXT 01-31-2003 CDC
Flash BIOS version 1.40 for Satellite 1410
This BIOS is applicable to the following models:
Satellite 1410-S105
Satellite 1410-S106
Satellite 1410-S173
Satellite 1410-S174
Satellite 1410-S175
Satellite 1410-S176
Satellite 1415-S105
Satellite 1415-S106
Satellite 1415-S115
Satellite 1415-S173
Satellite 1415-S174
Satellite 1415-S175
Satellite 1415-S176
Satellite 2410-S203
Satellite 2410-S204"
Please note that the model 1410-604 is *NOT* listed.
I thought "well, it must be another archive..."
But then I realized of a name that sounds familiar, it was there, in the directory where I uncompressed this 1.40 file, and the name is:
{color:#0000ff}*2410A9V140.EXE*{color}
So I took the other file, the BIOS_Win update, and I discovered that the file name is:
*{color:#0000ff}2410A9V140.EXE{color}* (Ups!)
So I uncompressed it again, to find:
El volumen de la unidad D no tiene etiqueta.
El n£mero de serie del volumen es: 8838-E175
Directorio de D:\Shared\diskette\2410A9v140
06/05/2009 00:43 <DIR> .
06/05/2009 00:43 <DIR> ..
*{color:#0000ff}09/01/2003 09:32 _250,663_ BIOFCA9T.COM{color}*
17/07/2002 03:38 35 biosupd2.ini
13/07/2001 13:22 6,277 chgbios2.vxd
*{color:#0000ff}08/10/2002 04:26 _30,697 _CHGBIOSA.EXE{color}*
09/11/2001 09:14 134 clean2.reg
17/07/2002 03:35 342,064 install2.exe
16/07/2002 06:55 241,664 nchgbios2.exe
18/08/2001 11:41 3,435 nchgbios2.sys
23/10/2001 18:55 11,476 nchgbios2NT.sys
26/08/2001 09:00 49,152 nchgbios2svc.exe
13/07/2001 17:05 49,152 tbdecode.dll
14/03/2002 06:42 49,152 TCHGBIOSInfo.dll
21/06/2002 11:25 1,796 tosclean2.bat
09/11/2001 12:01 967 tosclean2.pif
21/06/2002 11:34 1,841 toscleanAUTO2.bat
21/06/2002 11:44 1,796 toscleanSMS2.bat
21/06/2002 08:51 2,038 tosntclean2.bat
21/06/2002 08:51 2,084 tosntcleanAUTO2.bat
21/06/2002 08:52 2,038 tosntcleanSMS2.bat
20 archivos 1,046,461 bytes
2 dirs 9,402,793,984 bytes libres
No readme file...
Then another question arised in my mind: What about the other 1.40 file? What does the other 2410A9V140.EXE have inside?
This:
El volumen de la unidad D no tiene etiqueta.
El n£mero de serie del volumen es: 8838-E175
Directorio de D:\Shared\diskette\comparacion_toshiba\askiris\241 0a9v140
06/05/2009 00:46 <DIR> .
06/05/2009 00:46 <DIR> ..
*{color:#0000ff}09/01/2003 09:32 _250,663 _BIOFCA9T.COM{color}*
17/07/2002 03:38 35 biosupd2.ini
13/07/2001 13:22 6,277 chgbios2.vxd
*{color:#0000ff}08/10/2002 04:26 _30,697 _CHGBIOSA.EXE{color}*
09/11/2001 09:14 134 clean2.reg
17/07/2002 03:35 342,064 install2.exe
16/07/2002 06:55 241,664 nchgbios2.exe
18/08/2001 11:41 3,435 nchgbios2.sys
23/10/2001 18:55 11,476 nchgbios2NT.sys
26/08/2001 09:00 49,152 nchgbios2svc.exe
13/07/2001 17:05 49,152 tbdecode.dll
14/03/2002 06:42 49,152 TCHGBIOSInfo.dll
21/06/2002 11:25 1,796 tosclean2.bat
09/11/2001 12:01 967 tosclean2.pif
21/06/2002 11:34 1,841 toscleanAUTO2.bat
21/06/2002 11:44 1,796 toscleanSMS2.bat
21/06/2002 08:51 2,038 tosntclean2.bat
21/06/2002 08:51 2,084 tosntcleanAUTO2.bat
21/06/2002 08:52 2,038 tosntcleanSMS2.bat
20 archivos 1,046,461 bytes
2 dirs 9,402,781,696 bytes libres
*{color:#ff0000}They both have 20 files, and 1,046,461 bytes. I asumed they are both the SAME file{color}*.
And the readme file does not list the model 1410-604 in its readme file, therefore I cannot explain this except as a mistake from Toshiba. *{color:#ff0000}They put an incorrect BIOS in their website, and suggested the update, and somehow leaded to this kind of errors.{color}*
(Except in the case that one of those models is a different name of the 1410-604 model, and if it is the case... now I don't know why this BIOS do not work with this computer).
The worst part is that neither of those other files (V1.10, 1.20 and 1.30) lists the 1410-604, therefore there seems no possible workaround for this problem. I need an original v1.20 for this CMOS, and Toshiba seems not to have it. They offered me to solve the problem, by leaving the notebook at an ASP, and paying only 95€ for the work and about 280€ for a motherboard replacement, I will get it solved. But they offer no warranty of their possibilities because is a model 'too old' and 'discontinued' and with 'no support'...
In other words, they said "don't bother with this, just go out there and buy a new one" (something absolutely out of my scope in this crisis-time) :P
Thank you for reading soooo far.
Now what I need is to get any ideas of a workaround for this, my ideas are:
(1) This CMOS has a boot-part that still works (it allows a roll-back if you have the appropriate file). So I need a good BIOS to burn into the CMOS, from the VERY SAME model (a BIOS backup) but the backup must be adequate for the burning program (CHGBIOSA.COM).
(2) It is still possible that the BIOS could be OK but the data on the CMOS got somehow corrupted. If so, clearing the CMOS could solve de problem. But I was not able to find a clear cmos button from outside, and after disasembling I took of the battery, with no good results. I have to try leaving the MOBO without battery for longer period (I left it about 20 seconds) just in case 20 seconds don't allow all the capacitors to fully go to zero values. I have not much hope in this point.
(3) Try to get a REAL good update from Toshiba. I contacted several times technical support, and I was able to verify they are only phone-operators, with a script in front of them, and when the problem goes-out-of-scope they fall always in the same answer: "you have to go to an ASP". I still have a low hope to find someone who really knows a bit, and could enlighten with a good BIOS to put in this disks.
(4) As far as I could find, this BIOS is not from any known BIOS-maker. It seems it has been developed by Toshiba (own brand), therefore the Crisis Recovery Disk from Phoenix will not be of any help here. As well as any other BIOS recovery tool not designed for Toshiba's BIOS. But I'm open to any ideas, that could be tested more or less safely. (Remember that the 'BIOS-BOOT-PART' feature is still working, I don't want to loose this only possibility of redemption).
Wwwaaaaoooowww... what a long-post falks! Sorry for that!
Forgive me, but I wanted to be really clear.
Should anyone give some hints or advice, will be greatly appreciated.
Please don't say what I shouldn't do... I already know that. I already researched and already found my mistakes, in order not to repeat them. Now I need to move on, to advance, and to try to solve this, or at least learn how to solve similar things. As much as possible.
Thank you again, in advance, and sorry again.
FenixDigital
Message was edited by: Fenix_D
Changed subject to beter reflect what is the matter about (apparently erroneous BIOS file in Toshiba download center).

Answer 1

Well.<br />
<br />
It's not dead, certainly.<br />
<br />
The steps that I put in my procedure were:<br />
<br />
--&gt; There are two memory sims, that I am going to identify as M1 and M2<br />
--&gt; There are two memory banks, that I am going to identify as A and B<br />
<br />
Next step in order to identify if there are some module or bank that is not working properly are:<br />
<br />
The modules were installed as:<br />
<br />
M1 --&gt; A<br />
M2 --&gt; B<br />
<br />
<strong>1--&gt; Boot without any memory chip.</strong><br />
<br />
<blockquote>
A--&gt; X<br />
B--&gt; X<br />
</blockquote>
<br />
<strong>2--&gt; Boot with ONE module</strong><br />
<br />
<blockquote>
A--&gt;M1<br />
B--&gt;X<br />
</blockquote>
<br />
<strong>3--&gt; Boot with the OTHER module</strong><br />
<br />
<blockquote>
A--&gt; X<br />
B--&gt; M2<br />
</blockquote>
<br />
<strong>4--&gt; Boot with BOTH modules swapped:</strong><br />
<br />
<blockquote>
A--&gt; M2<br />
B--&gt; M1<br />
</blockquote>
<br />
<strong>5--&gt; Boot with ONE module swapped:</strong><br />
<br />
<blockquote>
A--&gt; M2<br />
B--&gt; X<br />
</blockquote>
<br />
<strong>6--&gt; Boot with the OTHER module swapped:</strong><br />
<br />
<blockquote>
A--&gt; X<br />
B--&gt; M1<br />
</blockquote>
<br />
At this point I got a great difference. It booted, finally. But in order to make a diagnostic, I have to complete the full test, and the results were:<br />
<br />
1--&gt; Boot without any memory chip.<br />
<br />
A--&gt; X<br />
B--&gt; X<br />
<br />
<strong>NOT BOOTING</strong> Actually the computer not even tries to read the disk. Only the power led turns on, but even prior to press the 'on/off' button. I think this indicates 'no memory installed'. I would have expected a post failure beeps, but there were no beeps at all.<br />
<br />
2--&gt; Boot with ONE module<br />
<br />
A--&gt;M1<br />
B--&gt;X<br />
<br />
<strong>BOOTED NORMALLY</strong> Well. This obviously means that the 3-1-1 beep code means memory error, or one bank failing of two installed. Now I didn't know if the problem was the module, or the bank B.<br />
<br />
3--&gt; Boot with the OTHER module<br />
<br />
A--&gt; X<br />
B--&gt; M2<br />
<br />
<strong>NOT BOOTING</strong> Just like the condition in 1. Like no memory installed, therefore there are two possibilities: The bank B is not working, or the memory module M2 is not working.<br />
<br />
4--&gt; Boot with BOTH modules swapped:<br />
<br />
A--&gt; M2<br />
B--&gt; M1<br />
<br />
<strong>NOT BOOTING</strong> Just like previous to test condition. Beep code 3-1-1, no boot at all.<br />
<br />
5--&gt; Boot with ONE module swapped:<br />
<br />
A--&gt; M2<br />
B--&gt; X<br />
<br />
<strong>NOT BOOTING</strong> This was the important test, because it finally let me determine that the problem is at the module 2 (M2) not at the bank B. But still there could be a failure IN THE BANK B and IN THE MEMORY MODULE 2. Have to do the other test.<br />
<br />
6--&gt; Boot with the OTHER module swapped:<br />
<br />
A--&gt; X<br />
B--&gt; M1<br />
<br />
<strong>BOOTING NORMALLY</strong> This really confirmed there is nothing wrong with ANY bank, but one of the modules is not working, actually is not being even detected. This is quite weird, because this computer was working perfectly with those two modules, and in the moment of the BIOS upgrade it seems to fail... How come?<br />
<br />
Something weird happened here. I don't know what, but something ruined one memory module (fortunately only one), what I would like to know now is what happened. But at least I have the machine running, with very low memory, but running.<br />
<br />
What I am thinking now is what about this BIOS upgrade makes the motherboard not to recognize one of the modules for some reason?<br />
<br />
<img class="jive-emoticon" src="images/emoticons/happy.gif" border="0" alt=":)" /><br />
<br />
I will continue my research, but certainly the memory made the difference.<br />
<br />
I am not sure why I didn't discover this before, I think I didn't perform this test before, for two reasons:<br />
<br />
(1) I tried to boot with no memory, and this was impossible, so I assumed that the problem was not at the memory.<br />
<br />
(2) When I heard the beep code (3-1-1), somewhere I read it was a video problem, and I asume most probably it was a video problem (since no video at all was being displayed) but I should have take into consideration that Phoenix BIOS also means with the same 3-1-1 a DMA problem (memory problem).<br />
<br />
Okis... It's a pitty having to wait so much between a post and it's approval. I posted my answer two days ago, and since it didn't appear, I believe It didn't upload, so I replied again, and also didn't appeared... until now. It is obvious that a moderator approval is required. That's why I have to wait 24 hours or more to read my post. This slows this forum effectiveness.<br />
<br />
Thank you very much for your help. I'll keep you informed. Until we get to a final diagnosis and solution.