Some installation questions concerning AS and 8i

I will be installing 8i Enterprise Edition so that I can work with 9i AS. I have read through most of the Installation Guide for Oracle 8i - Enterprise Edition Release 3 (8.1.7) for Windows NT. I have some questions that didnt seem to be addressed in the documentation.
How to access Web Site component?
Appendix A, 'Individual Components Available for Installation,' indicates that the Oracle Enterprise Manager Web Site component is not included in either the Typical or Minimal installations of Oracle 8i Enterprise Edition. Is it available through a custom installation, or how do I access this component?
Advanced Security questions:
That same appendix also makes it clear that one of the primary differences between the Typical and Minimal installations is all of the Advanced Security features (encryption and integrity support; authentication support; and so on). It seems that I will need the Advanced Security component, because I will be configuring a database that stores usernames and passwords. However, I will be working with Oracle Portal. Can security features be configured just through Portal and 9i Application Server, or do I need to use Advanced Security instead, or in addition to, Portal and AS?
From what I understand, Advanced Security works with SSL (Secure Socket Layers). Does this affect visitors' ability to access a Web application anonymously before login (doesnt interaction with an application in SSL require online exchange between computers of authenticated, encrypted digital certificates? I hope this question makes sense; I'm new to the topic.) Is there a short answer to this question?
Application Server instead of Oracle HTTP server:
I also saw in Appendix A that the Oracle HTTP server powered by Apache is included with both the Typical and Minimal installations. It's also bundled as a "Web listener" with the Oracle Enterprise Manager Web Site.
However, I will be installing 9i Application Server instead to work with the 8i database. Will this cause any conflicts? I'm just wondering if the Oracle HTTP server component can be excluded from the beginning, without doing a custom install. I did see on pg. 3-6 of the Installation Guide (under 'Oracle Enterprise Manager Web Browser Requirements') that Oracle Enterprise Web Site does support the Oracle Internet Application Server.
Also, I understand from the section on 'Mandatory Individual Component Requirements' that Advanced Security "requires preinstallation of an LDAP directory such as Oracle Internet Directory (provided on the component CD-ROM)." It refers me to the Oracle Advanced Security Administrator's Guide for further information.
Oracle Internet Directory:
However, I haven't been able to access the Security Administrator documentation yet for installation procedures since I haven't been able to successfully download 8i Enterprise Edition (with all of the supporting documentation) yet.
I looked at the online 8i documentation at http://technet.oracle.com/docs/products/oracle8i/doc_index.htm but did not see any reference to the Advanced Security Administrators Guide.
As for Oracle Internet Directory itself, I did just find the Oracle Internet Directory Administrator's Guide on the oracle8i/doc_index.htm page mentioned above - so that should help.
I also looked at the Oracle Internet Directory download page to see if links to documentation might be provided there, but saw that "Oracle Internet Directory Release 2.1.1.0 is delivered as part of Oracle8i Release 3" which leads me back to the 8i Enterprise Edition page where Ive been experiencing download difficulties. So far as I know, theres no evaluation-version CDs available for this software, though there are evaluation CDs available for 9i AS.
null

Urfaust wrote:
You can use the rankmirrors script to determine which is the fastest mirror for you.
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Mir … heir_Speed
@op - the tip that urfaust posted is contained in the beginners_guide wiki article. You should not attempt installing arch without reading this guide. If you have two computers, you can install arch on one while browsing to the guide on the 2nd.

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I have a Macbook Pro june 2011... I have 8GB ram but I only have 256mb VRAM... I've read some other questions about this and I realized... Why do I not have 560mb of VRAM since I have 8GB of RAM? Is there any way to get more VRAM to play games on steam?

I have a Macbook Pro june 2011... I have 8GB ram but I only have 256mb VRAM...
I've read some other questions about this and I realized... Why do I not have 560mb of VRAM since I have 8GB of RAM?
Is there any way to get more VRAM to play games on steam?
I've learned by reading other topics that I can't upgrade my graphics card on my Macbook Pro because it's soldered into the motherboard or somthing like that, but please tell me if there is any way to get more video ram by chaning some setting or upgrading something else. I'd also like to know why I only have 256MB of VRAM when I have 8GB of RAM, since I have 8GB of RAM I thought I was supposed to have 560mb of VRAM...
So the two questions are...
Is there any way to upgrade my VRAM, so that I can play games on steam?
Why do I only have 256MB VRAM when I have 8GB total RAM?
Other Info:
I have a quad core i7 Processor.
My graphcics card is the AMD Radeon HD 6490M.
I am also trying to play games on my BOOTCAMPed side of my mac, or my Windows 7 Professional side.
THANK YOU SO MUCH IF YOU CAN REPLY,
Dylan

The only two items that a user can change on a MBP are the RAM and HDD (Retinas not included). You have what the unit came with and the only way you will be able to change that is to purchase a MBP with superior graphics
If you are very much into gaming, the I suggest A PC. They are far superior for that type of application to a MBP.
Ciao.

Some basic questions on ESS and MSS

Hi Experts,
This is the first time I am going to deal with
ESS and MSS.
I have some basic questions about it and they are
listed below:
1. In an organization if they want to integrate
ESS and MSS, how do they go about? What I mean
is, will they install the packages in the R/3
system and then use the to portal features to
make iViews of ESS and MSS.
2. Or is there a seperate package for the portal
and the R/3 system
3.What is the best way to customize ESS and MSS
iViews? Is WebDynpro used to customize ESS and
MSS applications, if yes how?
4. Are these ESS and MSS packages different for
ECC and the older version of R/3 systems? If yes what are the major differences?
Please do let me know on these subjects and also
if anyone of you have any links or documents
associated with this scenario please do send me.
Thank you
Regards
Luke

Hi,
here is what I know..
1 & 2. Depending on the backend SAP version, the relevant ESS/MSS Business Packages have to be installed on the Portal. On the backend it will be via an Add-on.
3. The webDynpro versions of ESS/MSS are available from mySAP ERP2004/2005 (ECC5/6). The best way to customize the iViews would be through the NetWeaver DevStudio.
ent
4. Yes, the ESS/MSS packages are differ depending on the backend SAP version.
You can find all the different packages & their info right here on SDN. From the home page click on the Portal Content Portfolio on the right hand side of the page>Browse Content Portfolio>Self Service for ESS & Line Manager for MSS.
Regards,
Suresh Datti

Just installed 10.4 and have some installation questions

I just installed 10.4 and immediately updated it to 10.4.11. Unfortunately, when I installed 10.4, I had to do it as an Erase and Install, because of some issues that were keeping me from being able to Archive and Install. Anyway, I'm in the process of reinstalling all my software. I'll also need to re-create the Classic environment; I've never done this before, because when I first got this G4 it already had both OS 9 & 10 on it. I'd sure appreciate any tips anybody can give me as to what steps to go through to make the process as smooth as possible, and what else, if anything, besides running Repair Permissions I should do before/after/between installations. Any information that anyone can provide will be gratefully appreciated!

Hi-
You can install OS 9 after OS X has been installed, though the method varies depending on the OS 9 version that you have. If you have a retail version of OS 9:
-Start up from the CD, and open the Installer.
-Click the Options button in the Installer to access the clean installation option.
-Select the checkbox for clean installation.
-Install the software.
If your computer came with Mac OS 9.2.2 and Mac OS X 10.2 or 10.3, and a non-bootable Software Restore CD which includes Mac OS 9.2.2, do this:
-Open Software Restore, and select to restore only Mac OS 9.
-Open Classic preferences and verify that System Folder (the one that was just installed) is selected for the Classic environment.
More information is available in this document.
As everything is "new", you shouldn't need to worry about permissions.

Some Technical Questions Concerning iPhoto 09.

I would like to use iPhoto to arrange, organize, tag, and otherwise un-mangle my family photos taken within the last ten years. However, I have never so much as launched an instance of iPhoto! I have a couple of technical questions that I'm hoping can be answered by a forum guru.
1.) I love the idea of iPhoto tagging and organizing my photos via places, faces, events etc. How does iPhoto store the metadata which allows it to organize as such? Is this data added to the photo files as additional EXIF data? Or is there an iPhoto database file/files which needs to be maintained?
2.) When "importing" photo files into iPhoto, I'm assuming that additional thumbnail files are created and stored. Does it store additional "full" versions of the photo files by default (as iTunes will do with MP3s if you are not careful?) And when you start creating smart albums et al, I'm sure something similar to iTunes Library files (.ITL, .XML etc) are also created. What are the important files and directories created in the process?
Perhaps these questions can be answered appropriately by addressing my third question...
3.) Can someone point me to a whitepaper, article, webpage or discussion of iPhoto which goes beyond the available Apple.com tutorial? I know there must be a book available, but I really don't have the time to dedicate to a full book on the subject. I'm extremely lazy and still haven't finished the copy of Ulysses I purchased ten years ago. Just need some quick and dirty explanations...
~( ):>
Message was edited by: liquidmice

IF you're not too lazy to read the replies:
1.) I love the idea of iPhoto tagging and organizing my photos via places, faces, events etc. How does iPhoto store the metadata which allows it to organize as such? Is this data added to the photo files as additional EXIF data? Or is there an iPhoto database file/files which needs to be maintained?
This metadata is stored in the iPhoto database. It can be written to the files on export. Prior to Export there's no need to. I have no idea what you mean by "iPhoto database file/files which needs to be maintained?"
2.) When "importing" photo files into iPhoto, I'm assuming that additional thumbnail files are created and stored.
Correct. They are what you see in the iPhoto Window in Organising mode.
Does it store additional "full" versions of the photo files by default
Yes.
And when you start creating smart albums et al, I'm sure something similar to iTunes Library files (.ITL, .XML etc) are also created.
No there aren't. Again, this is all stored in the iPhoto Database.
What are the important files and directories created in the process?
There's only one you need back up. It's the iPhoto Library in your Pictures Folder.
At a guess this question:
Does it store additional "full" versions of the photo files by default
suggests you don't want this to happen.
You can run iPhoto in Referenced Mode where this won't happen. I strongly urge you not to, expecially as you haven't a clue about iPhoto and are very lazy.
*How to do it:*
Simply go to iPhoto Menu -> Preferences -> Advanced and uncheck 'Copy Files to the iPhoto Library on Import'.
*What Happens:*
Now iPhoto will not copy the files, but rather simply reference them on your HD. To do this it will create an alias in the Originals Folder that points to your file. It will still create a thumbnail and, if you modify the pics, a Modified version within the iPhoto Library Folder.
*Some things to consider:*
1. Importing and deleting pics are more complex procedures. You have to to put the files where they will be stored before importing them. When you delete them you'll need to remove the files from the HD yourself.
2. You cannot move or rename the files on your system or iPhoto will lose track of them on systems prior to 10.5 and iPhoto 08. Even with the later versions issues can still arise if you move the referenced files to new volumes or between volumes.
3. Most importantly, migrating to a new disk or computer can be much more complex.
4. Because iPhoto has no tools for managing Referenced Files, if, for some reason, the path to the photos changes then you could find yourself resolving aliases for +each photo in the Library+ one by one.
My own opinion:
I've yet to see a good reason to run iPhoto in referenced mode unless you're using two photo organiser
If disk space is an issue, you can run an entire iPhoto Library from an external disk:
1. Quit iPhoto
2. Copy the iPhoto Library as an entity from your Pictures Folder to the External Disk.
3. Hold down the option (or alt) key while launching iPhoto. From the resulting menu select 'Choose Library' and navigate to the new location. From that point on this will be the default location of your library.
4. Test the library and when you're sure all is well, trash the one on your internal HD to free up space.
If you're concerned about accessing the files, There are many, many ways to access your files in iPhoto:
*For Users of 10.5 and later*
You can use any Open / Attach / Browse dialogue. On the left there's a Media heading, your pics can be accessed there. Command-Click for selecting multiple pics.
Uploaded with plasq's Skitch!
You can access the Library from the New Message Window in Mail:
Uploaded with plasq's Skitch!
*For users of 10.4 and later* ...
Many internet sites such as Flickr and SmugMug have plug-ins for accessing the iPhoto Library. If the site you want to use doesn’t then some, one or any of these will also work:
To upload to a site that does not have an iPhoto Export Plug-in the recommended way is to Select the Pic in the iPhoto Window and go File -> Export and export the pic to the desktop, then upload from there. After the upload you can trash the pic on the desktop. It's only a copy and your original is safe in iPhoto.
This is also true for emailing with Web-based services. However, if you're using Gmail you can use iPhoto2GMail
If you use Apple's Mail, Entourage, AOL or Eudora you can email from within iPhoto.
If you use a Cocoa-based Browser such as Safari, you can drag the pics from the iPhoto Window to the Attach window in the browser.
*If you want to access the files with iPhoto not running*:
For users of 10.6 and later:
You can download a free Services component from MacOSXAutomation which will give you access to the iPhoto Library from your Services Menu. Using the Services Preference Pane you can even create a keyboard shortcut for it.
For Users of 10.4 and later:
Create a Media Browser using Automator (takes about 10 seconds) or use this free utility Karelia iMedia Browser
Other options include:
1. *Drag and Drop*: Drag a photo from the iPhoto Window to the desktop, there iPhoto will make a full-sized copy of the pic.
2. *File -> Export*: Select the files in the iPhoto Window and go File -> Export. The dialogue will give you various options, including altering the format, naming the files and changing the size. Again, producing a copy.
3. *Show File*: Right- (or Control-) Click on a pic and in the resulting dialogue choose 'Show File'. A Finder window will pop open with the file already selected.
You can set Photoshop (or any image editor) as an external editor in iPhoto. (Preferences -> General -> Edit Photo: Choose from the Drop Down Menu.) This way, when you double click a pic to edit in iPhoto it will open automatically in Photoshop or your Image Editor, and when you save it it's sent back to iPhoto automatically. This is the only way that edits made in another application will be displayed in iPhoto.
Note that iPhoto sends a copy+ of the file to Photoshop, so when you save be sure to use the Save command, not Save As... If you use Save As then you're creating a new file and iPhoto has no way of knowing about this new file. iPhoto is preserving your original anyway.
Regards
TD

Question Concerning Erase and Sync and Itunes backups

Earlier this year my Computers Harddrive exploded without me making a backup. overtime I have moved all my new data to a new Itunes library and now after just about everything has been moved My Itunes is telling me that for my 5 devices, That I need to do an Erase and Sync. If I were to first backup my devices in Itunes would I be able to recover everything after the Erase and Sync ( Notes, Contacts, Remiders,ect.) Also a side question, If I restore my phone from a backup, are the data in the Apps Lost
Sorry For Poor Grammar did this in a hurry

If the songs are still on your computer then you'll have to add them back into iTunes and rebuild your library. Once you've done that you can reload your iPod. Pressing "Erase and Sync" when iTunes brings up the dialogue window asking whether you want to replace the songs on your iPod with the songs in this iTunes does exactly what it says. If you linked to an iTunes with only a few or completely different songs it will have erased your original iPod song list, iTunes itself must have been empty at that point as erase and sync erases the iPod not iTunes. If you lost your songs entirely from the computer and the iPod there are some data recovery programs on the market. I've no personal experience of them so I can't say how effective they are, here's an example: iPod Data RecoveryBuegie - Recovering Songs
None of the recovery programs are particularly cheap so you have to decide if in your particular circumstances it's worth it to get your songs back. It may be if you have a lot of purchased tracks which you would have to pay to download again. If they came primarily from your CDs then it's most likely not as you can re-rip them.

Some PI questions regarding RFC and receiver determination

If we import the design objects in one customer system from another customer system , and in the original system there is an imported RFC ,
This RFC has been created in the new SAP customer system.
My question is do we have to import the RFC again , as it is already in the imported design objecs.
My second question is , di we need to create a receiver determination for the answe in a synchronous send step of the BPM ,
Thanks

My question is do we have to import the RFC again , as it is already in the imported design objecs
Yes....the RFC/ IDOC should be imported from the system to/ from which you will send/ receive the data.
If the RFC was in system1 earlier and now in system2.....then you have to delete the RFC imported from system1 (if it is not used) and then import it from system2
My second question is , di we need to create a receiver determination for the answe in a synchronous send step of the
BPM ,
Irrespective of sync/ async send step.....you should create Receiver Determination....which will have BPM as sender and the TO_SYSTEM as receiver.....not separately for response....just once
Regards,
Abhishek.

Question concerning WebService and certificates

Hi, well i'd like to get data from a WebService. Scenario is RFC to WebService in SAP XI.
Therefore i also have to use user&pw and a certificate key i got previously!
So i created the receiver channel and now i am stuck. There is the option User Authentification and Configure Certificate Authentication. What do i have to use and how to configure. I know i have to use the keystore-service in VisualAdmin, but how?!
I already read this: /people/rahul.nawale2/blog/2006/05/31/how-to-use-client-authentication-with-soap-adapter but it does not fir my needs actually.
Again, i have user&pw AND certificate-key (only key in plain characters!). how to use these 3?!
thx in advance, br

Hi Jens,
Go through following pdf. It will clear some of you doubts.
https://www.sdn.sap.com/irj/sdn/go/portal/prtroot/docs/library/uuid/964f67ec-0701-0010-bd88-f995abf4e1fc
-Pinkle

Some installation questions.

Hi, ive decided to install Arch this weekend, i come from Ubuntu Linux and i have a few questions:
- in /etc/rc.conf, in the "Localization Section", i shall type "America/Argentina/Buenos_Aires"??
- archlinux.org will be a good pacman mirror? or there is another better?
- For an ATI video card, should i use the free driver or the closed source one?

Urfaust wrote:
You can use the rankmirrors script to determine which is the fastest mirror for you.
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Mir … heir_Speed
@op - the tip that urfaust posted is contained in the beginners_guide wiki article. You should not attempt installing arch without reading this guide. If you have two computers, you can install arch on one while browsing to the guide on the 2nd.

Question concerning Selecting and Deselecting Toggle Buttons

Hello Everyone,
I am still relatively new to the adobe web suite (still in the trial period in fact). I am working on creating a mock-up of a main web page design to demonstrate and discuss with management. The decision associated with such would determine if we go forward with purchasing adobe products, continuing a redesign of our website among many other things.
The big issue that I am running into at the moment is creating a series of interactive thumbnails.
I have the following set up on the page:
- A section for the actual image (full sized) complete with a title and description provided at the side for one of potentially many topics.
- Below the topic/image section is a series of thumbnails, which the first one is set for full opacity and marked as selected. (All of these thumbnails are in a Custom Component and break down into a Toggle Button component each, if the image is unselected it remains set at a low opacity)
- When selecting one of the other thumbnails, I need it to change the image (this part works), select/set the thumbnail to full opacity (this part works as well, given it is a toggle button feature), and lastly unselect the previous thumbnail (causing it to go to a lower opacity, I cannot figure out a way to accomplish this one)
- In the future I intend to design side bars (left and right) for both thumbnails and the section above (effectively changing the topic to a new one)
The ultimate idea is to create articles, provided with thumbnails associated to the article at the bottom and to allow clean alternation between the thumbnails, and likewise be able to switch to a new article (with a new set of thumbnails associated to the new article) as well.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
-Steven

I think I found the solution of my own question. I share it in the hope that it’ll be useful to other people. Remind that I use Cp 6.1.0.319. I modified the project as follows: 1) I unchecked “Visible in output” for the button “Audio Play” (Bt_play) 2) I modified the AA associated to the audio on/off buttons as descrived below: Action Name: Play Assign cpCmndMute with 0 Show Bt_Stop Enable Bt_Stop Hide Bt_Play Disable Bt_Play Action Name: Stop Assign cpCmndMute with 1 Show Bt_Play Enable Bt_Play Hide Bt_Stop Disable Bt_Stop In this way the two buttons in the same location work well as a real toggle button! Greetings Elena

Straightforward question concerning borders and frame position

Two small questions:
How would you create a frame ( or something similar) that does not have the standard blue bar on its top? I'm trying to code a slash screen and the bar makes it just look silly.
Secondly how would one predetermine where a JFrame showed up on the screen? Specifically, I just want to center it.
Thanks guys.

Use JWindow instead of JFrame for a splash screen, there's no title bar. And the code to center it:
Dimension d = Toolkit.getDefaultToolkit().getScreenSize();
setLocation((d.width / 2) - (getWidth() / 2),
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Question Concerning "Terms and Conditions"

Lately I have been pondering about whether I should put iPodLinux on my 3rd Generation iPod so that I can play videos on it and more that Apple doesn't allow you to do. I would normally do this in a heartbeat, only my Apple Care extended warranty doesn't expire for 5 more months. So, I looked at the "Terms and Conditions" for my warranty and found an interesting bit....
The plan does not cover:
"Damage to the Covered Equipment caused by accident, abuse, neglect, misuse (including faulty installation, repair, or maintenance by anyone other than Apple or an Apple authorized Service Provider), unauthorized modification"
That does on, but you can see the point I'm making just from that. According to the section I just read, it is not violating your warranty to install other software on your iPod, but Apple won't cover it if your iPod is damaged because of the software. So, say I installed iPodLinux on my iPod, and it was working fine, but one day my scroll wheel just stopped working... I could get my iPod repaired because it is still covered under the warranty, correct?
Please let me know if I am interpretting this incorrectly.
-Timo

^Thats what I suspected, only I couldn't find anything about just installing it and voiding your warranty, only that AppleCare doesn't cover damage resulting from manipulation of your iPod.
Of course, I wasn't reading the original iPod warranty...
-Timo

Question concerning Eclipse and Tomcat Plugin and JSP

I have a Tomcat-Project that I am working on in Eclipse and quite a few external JARs. Everything works fine, when I run my Test class within my project (in Eclipse). But as soon, as I am trying to call the jsp in my browser I get Exceptions: "java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: org/apache/log4j/Logger" for example, which tells me that in the browser it can't find the JARs... I'm guessing something's wrong with the classpath but I was thinking that Eclipse would handle those things for me...
I've added the JARs to my project via Eclipse (Properties -> Java Build Path -> Libraries -> Add external JARs). And I've created a subdirectory for my jsp files and allowed my project to update the .xml file for the settings and all... Do I need to do anything else? What have I done wrong so far, have I forgotten to do?

I solved the problem...

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Hi,
After having sound problems with Warsow, I wanted to rebuild OpenAL as it seemed to use OSS by default. However, the PKGBUILD currently in ABS does not work anymore, the download for the source is invalid. I wrote my own PKGBUILD for openal-soft, which seems to work OK so far (I just had to create a symbolic link for libopenal.so.0, as libopenal.so.1 is now created by default). This version linked against my alsa-libs works without problems. Would it be possible to to replace openal with openal-soft or at least change the PKGBUILD or is there a reason the old version is still the standard in the repos?
Another issue was sound in Urban Terror, which also seemed to use OSS by default. As this game only uses SDL Audio and cannot be compiled to use OpenAL (the flags are ignnored), I wondered why SDL uses OSS by default and not alsa. The current SDL-version is compiled with ALSA and OSS support, but it always used OSS. After rebuilding and reinstalling SDL with --disable-oss, it worked properly (read: I could play music and Urban Terror at the same time). I don't know if there is a configuration file for SDL somewhere, I found nothing in /etc/, but as ALSA is preferred over OSS nowadays, perhaps --disable-oss could be added to the PKGBUILD for SDL. Perhaps I built SDL from source with OSS installed using the standard PKGBUILD, and OSS is not enabled in the repo's SDL, but I think this could be updated nevertheless.

Yes, it does work, but I find it a bit irritating that OSS is default for SDL, as the majority of users use ALSA nowadays. Same goes for OpenAL according to http://icculus.org/lgfaq/#setthatdriver - perhaps this should be noted somewhere?

Question concerning Hibernate and EJB3 Annotation overlap

Consider the following, from the JBoss EJB3 Tutorial:
@OneToOne(cascade = {CascadeType.ALL})
@JoinColumn(name = "ADDRESS_ID")
public Address getAddress()
return address;
The above two annotations are applicable, using JBoss Libraries and Hibernate Libraries.
If one wishes to use both JBoss EJB3 annotations, and Hibernate with Annotations,
do annotations need to be used twice? Naturally, if Hibernate and Jboss identical
annocations are imported, there will be a compilation conflict error.
I know that full package names can be used on annotations to avoid that.
So, if I used the above code snippet, and I want to Hibernate using
the equivalent hibernate annotations, what should one ideally
do and why?

Zac1234 wrote:
I know that Netbeans automatically may build and deploy the completed
EJB using ant to gather resources behind the scenes.
which is why you shouldn't use it to learn about things. It hiding things from you means you don't learn all you need to know.
with V2.1, regardless as to the container software that I'm deploying the bean to,
am I now required to have an appropriate XML deployment descriptor,
yup, and the ANT build file is not it.
or is this something unique to jsps/servlets?Not the same thing. Different deployment descriptors for different applications.

Some installation questions concerning AS and 8i

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