Washed-out Quicktime Renders...

Whenever I export a clip from FCP in any other codec than Animation, the result is always a washed-out looking clip (even when working within the same codec).
The loss of quality is about 15-20%. I've had the same problem for some years now. I first realized this when exporting from FCP, I tried then to export from AE, Commotion, etc., and the result was always the same. I came to the conclusion that it must be something to do with the QT core (since all these applications use it). My HD has already been re-formatted and both OS and all applications have been re-installed. I have two computers and it happens in both of them. I ended up rendering everything on animation which is an OK solution for SD but a nightmare for HD. Every time I render a clip it quadruples it's size!!!
Any help will be highly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
E.C.

First off, Apple doesn't read these forums for the most part. Not the people who deal with the making of FCP at any rate. It is a community they created for people to help people.
Second never ever EVER judge the quality of the footage using your computer monitor. Not the Final Cut Pro Canvas, Quicktime player, After Effects window...nowhere. ONLY on a broadcast monitor attached to the system. My clip I have in FCP, looks the same this way when viewed in FCP, from After Effects, Shake...even QT player.
What you are seeing is the differences in the ways various applications show the footage.
BUT...there is something that is happening. I will quote a post on another forum, because the thread is REALLY long and this post happened near the end.
Jude Cotter:
"The problem is RGB vs Y'CbCr.
When you import a Y'CbCr file into a RGB application like Shake or AE or Motion, it maps 0 percent values to 0 and 100 percent values to 255. This means that any luma or chroma values outside super black or super white get clipped, and that the values inside these units get adjusted accordingly.
Older versions of FCP also apply gamma adjustments on import (as Stu says) but FCP 5.1.2 has a new system for handling gamma - it doesn't apply extra gamma correction on output anymore, and there is a user selectable preference for import gamma handling.
But if you are moving to or from RGB applications and FCP (in a broadcast environment), you need to understand the changes that being applied and pre-compensate.
I've only just started to get a handle on this, so I'm not the font of all knowledge on gamma in FCP. If you need to understand this stuff (most people don't, really) I can recommend a new book called The Encylopedia of Color Correction by Alexis Van Hurkman"
Here is the thread:
http://www.lafcpug.org/phorum/read.php?1,168873,169120#msg-169120
Shane

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QTs are washed out when rendered.

HI there
I'm rendering out through AE (v12) and through numerous codecs - animation,H264, ApplePro, tiffs, etc.... - and all QTs look washed out when compared to the AE project. Does anyone have a solution or know the cause of this? (OSX 10.8.4 & GeForce GT650M)
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E

Tiffs and Targa sequences still seem to drop less so.
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The web seems rife with theory about this, but can someone explain why my output from the FCP timeline to a quicktime movie (using current settings, DV, HDV, doesn't matter, even ProRes) is washed out? The Enable Final Cut Color check does not fix this problem.
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Thanks Steve, Steven and Todd for your responses. I am sorry that I hadn't mentioned my OS is Windows Vista with AE CS3.
Steve : In the output module, I selected Quicktime Movie format and by default the codec is H.264 which I think is the culprit for making the washed out mov. I then followed your advice to use Animation and the result was great! I'll try different settings for a better result. But I wonder why H.264 yields such a poor result as most movies nowadays use this codec.
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Best Regards
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Thanks Steve, Steven and Todd for your responses. I am sorry that I hadn't mentioned my OS is Windows Vista with AE CS3.
Steve : In the output module, I selected Quicktime Movie format and by default the codec is H.264 which I think is the culprit for making the washed out mov. I then followed your advice to use Animation and the result was great! I'll try different settings for a better result. But I wonder why H.264 yields such a poor result as most movies nowadays use this codec.
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Thanks Steve, Steven and Todd for your responses. I am sorry that I hadn't mentioned my OS is Windows Vista with AE CS3.
Steve : In the output module, I selected Quicktime Movie format and by default the codec is H.264 which I think is the culprit for making the washed out mov. I then followed your advice to use Animation and the result was great! I'll try different settings for a better result. But I wonder why H.264 yields such a poor result as most movies nowadays use this codec.
Steven : I tried switching on "Match Legacy After Effects Quicktime Gamma Adjustments" in Project Settings, and left everything default, but the result was the same, e.g. the color of the rendered mov was lighter than the original.
Todd : I'll read carefully the information on the link that you mentioned.
Best Regards
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Hi
Me total Amateur - just thinking.
How do You judge Your renderings etc.
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Sample.
http://mediaartproductions.com/Media_Art/Welcome.html
Message was edited by: Erik Naso

No, this isn't a rookie thing. I believe the problem lies within the new quicktime update, the last one did the same thing. However, this is a frustrating problem, but my suggestion is to wait a few days, and see if apple picks up on the problem and releases a fix.
DON'T UNINSTALL QUICKTIME USING PACIFIST!!! I tried that and had to reinstall my operating system. I don't know why, but it is not advisable.

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Hey-
This sounds like a classic gamma problem, but i don't know where to look to fix it. Basically, my edit looks one way, but when i export the quicktime of the timeline, playback in quicktime is washed out, drab, low contrast, and has less saturation than it does in the edit in FCP.
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Chris
afraid you are mistaken, looking at the file on a PC will be quite different to looking at it on a mac and I am thinking this may be where your issues start.
(Sorry if the following is sucking eggs)
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Yeah, sorry, this was actually a graphic created in Motion 3 then sent to FCP to sync with some audio and other sound effects. The entire workflow is HDV 1080p24, compressed to various sizes of h.264 and meant for web only. Because it is meant for the web, I have bypassed a calibrated monitor and am just doing all the work on my Apple Cinema displays.
Like I said, I can take the exported h.264 version from FCP, open it in quicktime and hold it up right next to my FCP canvas and the luma and chroma values are noticeable muted, less vibrant, and just not as much fun to look at.
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I have both my PC & Mac running through the same display, the Mac digital and the PC analog, easy enough to switch between using the monitor front panel.
They look about the same to me, I had a custom calibration on the PC which had the gamma raised so it looked a a little washed out but only by a small amount, changing to a standard calibration and they looked nearly identical.
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The contrast alone might do it but I would try both.

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Thanks!
Oliver

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Washed out color - McGamma Shift?

In a major bind... Since switching to a new machine and Snow Leopard, my video looks washed out when out putted....
http://www.flickr.com/photos/realestateconvergence/4341439404/sizes/l/
The link above takes you to the photo samples of the video...
Photo on the left is rendered in h264 using Snow Leopard
Middle photo is from the timeline
Photo to the right is rendered in h264... Again using quick time conversion
The sweater, skin tone and blackness of the chair are the most obvious indications of the problem.
The setting aren’t so important, I’ve been using the same work flow for years without any problems...
The drop off in color is my concern... I was told it was a Snow Leopard problem, so I un-installed it on one machine and downgraded to Leopard... As you can see there has been no improvement...
In most of the forums the problem is refereed to as the McGamma Shift...
I just need a fix....
Thanks to anyone and everyone in advance for your help.
Jeff Brooks
Video Fishbowl

Hi Jeff - hope this helps.
I was having the same problem since upgrading to a new i7 iMac with Snow Leopard. A post on Creative Cow directed me to a Quicktime Preference fix.
Go to your preferences and under the "General" make sure that both "Enable Final Cut Studio color compatibility" and "Use high-quality video setting when available" are checked. This seems to have resolved the problem for me.
Cheers,
Karen

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I can't seem to export an H.264 video without it being washed out. Lower contrast, lower saturation, very noticeable. As if there's a hidden conversion to rec709 or some such that I can't turn off.
PC
Premiere Pro CC
Exporting from Premiere Pro through Media Encoder to H.264 in an MP4 container.
Video appears the same in VLC, QuickTime, and on Vimeo.
I've looked and looked and all the solutions I've seen relate to H.264 within a MOV container. Nothing I've seen works.
Other codecs play back as expected. Definitely not a driver issue.
This is infuriating. Thoughts?

Tried exporting a 10-bit DNxHD and taking it through DaVinci Resolve, exporting an H.264 (mov) using Data Levels, and it exports and plays correctly. As a test, I ran this file through Media Encoder reconverting to H.264 (mp4) and the result plays correctly (at data levels).
This seems to confirm that Premiere Pro / Media Encoder by default (and without an option to change it) export H.264 with video levels. In a day when web video trumps television, it seems at the very least there would be an option to export using data and not video levels, especially when Vimeo and YouTube both request H.264 files. Am I missing something obvious, or this completely retarded?

Has anyone solved the "washed out colors" / gamma correction problem?

I'm trying to create a high-quality slide show from pictures. I've tried iPhoto, iMovie, and FotoMagico. What they have in common in the Quicktime engine for compression. There seems to be a problem with washed-out colors - across all programs - when trying to export the slideshow. I've tried many different codecs (H.264, x264, Photo-JPEG, PNG, JPEG-2000), as well as a variety of settings and filter corrections. Nothing has been effective. Last year, I was able to use FotoMagico with the Photo-JPEG codec, and the photos looked great. This year, things are not working (see photo below). The folks at FotoMagico attribute problems to Quicktime. And since I've tried creating the slideshow on a variety of platforms, I have to agree.
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http://www.smugmug.com/photos/1140668576_UHnXX-L.png

Seriously Apple... this has been an issue for many years now!
Why can't this be fixed once and for all?
The ridiculous thing is that VLC play H.264 videos with much better colors than QT.
This question has been asked many many times over the years and i have yet seen a single reasonable explanation from Apple.
Here's a quick test of a color image screen recorded to a mov and viewed on screen together with the TIFF image (screen shot of everything in OS X 10.6.6)
The washed out look doesn't show as much in this simple color test but is very obvious in normal videos.
http://screencast.com/t/qQFCKZ0lgg5
1. TIFF image
2. Screen recording of above image with Intermediate Codec, viewed in QT 10 (colors not 100% but ok)
3. Same screen recording exported from Intermediate to H.264, viewed in QT 10 (colors washed out, red very wrong)
4. Same H.264 video (viewed in VLC 1.1.5)
Will this problem ever be fixed, or just ignored until no one use H.264 anymore?
Cheers

Washed-out Quicktime Renders...

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