White Balance in LR vs. Aperture

I'm comparing LR and Aperture for use with my Pentax K10D. What's amazing is how different the RAW conversion is in each program. I now have a full appreciation of RAW files as "digital negatives" and the software programs as "developers".
For example, a RAW file that appears properly exposed on my K10D will also be properly exposed in LR. However, that same file will be overexposed by 2/3 a stop in Aperture (of course this is recoverable, but interesting nonetheless). I imagine this has something to do with the different tone curves applied to the RAW file by the camera, Aperture and LR. LR seems to be more similar to what is done in-camera on the Pentax K10D.
One thing I can't figure out though is why white balance values would be different in each program. I thought WB was simply stored as a number (kelvin) in the camera, and the RAW converter just reads that number. Clearly I'm mistaken here, because in several test photos I opened in both Aperture and LR, the white balance is dramatically different. (Both WB settings are "as shot"). For example, for the same photo, in Aperture WB was 5950 and in LR it was 4550.
The programs must have a different way of calculating or displaying this info, because when I use Aperture's WB settings in LR, or vice versa, the images don't look the same at all. The tint sliders seem to be very different as well.
Any insight you could offer on this would be appreciated. At the end of the day I can produce very similar results in both programs with adjustments, but I'm trying to figure out which one's default settings are closest to what I prefer.
Finally... what effect do the following preferences have, and is it advisable to use them?:
- "Make defaults specific to camera serial number"
- "Make defaults specific to camera ISO"

If you consistently get White balances in LR that are far off, it could be that the WB decoding algorithm for this camera is wrong. You might want to submit a bug report in that case. You should be able to see the actual white balance in the manufacturer's software (don't know if pentax makes any). You can also open it up in the open source dcraw (or its outstanding GUI derivative
ufraw) program. The author of dcraw has basically cracked all the RAW formats that are in use and it almost always reads white balance correctly. Also, exiftool might read those values.

Similar Messages

Canon EOS 550D JPEGs don't show white balance EXIF info in Aperture

I have 23,000 photos in my iPhoto library which I would eventually like to transfer to Aperture. I've experimented with importing just a few photos from iPhoto so that I can practise using Aperture before I go over to it completely, but have a problem in that the white balance info for JPEGs is not copying over with the rest of the metadata. The white balance column in the Info pane is empty and there are no 'cloud' or 'sun' symbols at the top right of the Info pane beside the word JPEG. The white balance info for RAW photos, however, copies over fine.
I have performed Aperture Library First Aid (repaired permissions and database, and rebuilt database) but the problem still exists. I have also created a new Aperture library and then imported some original photos from iPhoto which I exported to the desktop and then into the new Aperture library. I had the same problem, with no white balance information showing.
This question is being re-posted in a slightly different form from a similar one I asked yesterday, because it has been suggested to me that it may be a problem peculiar to Canon EOS 550D users. Has any other Canon EOS 550D user come across this problem, or can anyone suggest a remedy please? I am using the latest versions of Aperture 3 and iPhoto '11.

Hello Ernie
I think you've pinpointed the nub of the problem. As I was only trying out Aperture, I thought the best thing to do would be to import just a few photos from iPhoto and have a play, so I went to the Import button in the Toolbar and imported them from my iPhoto library individually. After reading your advice I have just changed libraries and opened the iPhoto library in Aperture and the white balance information is now showing. I can't really see what the difference is between the two, I would have thought the white balance information would show whichever way I looked at the photos but I don't care, because you have solved it for me. Thank you so much for your time. So many people have tried to help me and I'm most grateful to the Apple Support community!

Studio white balance turns blue in Aperture

I have just noticed this problem in Aperture. In the studio I shoot a grey card to set the white balance and Curves grey point afterwards for the whole batch in Aperture. It has been working fine, for several years in fact, but now the white background has a definite blue tinge which carries over to the processed image, I can correct it in Photoshop by using the white eyedropper in curves but surely Aperture should get it right at the beginning of the whole process! All my settings have remained the same.
Is anyone else having this problem?

Ah hah! I have played around with the white balance tool and think I have the answer.
I foolishly thought that by clicking on a grey card with the eye dropper set to "Natural Grey" that I would get a perfect result - silly me! I now find that I have to have the eye dropper set to "Temperature & Tint" - (just like the old days!) and this produces the perfect white.
So whats the point in having a grey option when it doesn't work with grey objects, and while I'm on the subject, who'se skin tone is that setting calibrated to - a white European, a tanned European, an African, an American Indian or an eskimo, because no two peoples skin tones are the same?

How-To: White-balance your image properly Attn: Aperture Team @ Apple

Since Aperture's white balance eye-dropper is more-or-less useless I have taken it upon myself to discover a means to accurately white-balance an image using Aperture.
My method is as follows:
1. Open my desired image in Aperture and hit Z to view at 100%
2. Open up /Applications/Utilities/DigitalColor Meter
3. In DigitalColor Meter, go into preferences and select the following options:
Magnification Factor: 8x
Refresh behavior: Refresh continuously
[X] Float window above other apps
4. Set DigitalColor Meter's "Aperture Size" to the third or 4th notch to get a fairly large radius
5. Move the cursor over the image until DigitalColor Meter's "Aperture" box is over a portion of the image that you want neutral and hit Command(Apple)-L
to lock it at that position
6. Adjust the White Balance controls in Aperture until DigitalColor Meter reads equal (or approximately equal) R G B values
You now have an image that's white balanced accurately for the area you selected. If it is not satisfactory, click on DigitalColor Meter and hit Command(Apple)-L to unlock and repeat the 5th and 6th steps above with a new area.
Notice to Apple's Aperture Team: This is how white balance should work in Aperture. The white balance eye-dropper currently produces pretty random results. When working on this tool for a future update, look at allowing the user to set a radius for sampling the image and build the DigitalColor Meter into the application. This would bring Aperture closer to being a real professional tool.
Dual G5 2.5GHz, 4GB RAM, GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL Mac OS X (10.4.3)

Test Results:
Aperture 1.1:
Image Temperature: 3594
Tint: -17
When using the white balance tool on a white section of a photo, the RGB values changed from R 255 G 234 B 192 to R 255 G 230 B 197 and the Temperature changed to 3946 and Tint to 12.
The photo still remained unacceptable.
When usint the white balance tool on a grey section of the same photo, the RGB values cahnge from R 211 G 178 B 126 to R 208 G 180 B 162 and the Temperatue changed to 3154 and Tint to 2.
The photo still remained unacceptable but was notably improved.
Using Capture One Pro, the results were as follows:
Temperatue: 3850
Tint: -10
When using the white balance tool on a white section of the same photo, the RGB values changed from R 255 G 241 B 200 to R 244 G 244 B 244 and the Temperature changed to 2500 and Tint to -16.
Photo was very acceptable with no perceivable colour cast.
When using the white balance tool on a grey section of the same photo, the RGB values changed from R 190 G 153 B 108 to R 153 G 153 B 153 and Temperature to 2550 and Tint to -2.
Photo was very acceptable with no perceivable colour cast.
From this quick test on a photo, I can draw the following conclusions:
1. Aperture interprets temperature and tint data differently from Capture One Pro, although this likely due to the use of a camera profile within Capture One Pro;
2. Using the white balance tool in Aperture on a "white" section does not neutralize the RGB values;
3. Using the white balance tool in Aperture on a "white" section does not correctly remove a colour cast within a photograph;
4. Using the white balance tool in Aperture on a "grey" section does not neutralize the RGB values; and
5. Using the white balance tool in Aperture on a "grey" section does not correctly remove a colour cast within a photograph, although it does work better.

White Balance Setting Problem

APPLE COMPUTER:
THREE BASIC QUESTIONS THAT NEED TO BE ANSWERED.
1. HOW DOES THE WHITE BALANCE TOOL WORK IN APERTURE?
2. HOW DO YOUR SOFTWARE ENGINEERS AND "PHOTOGRAPHIC CONSULTANTS" USE IT TO SET WHITE BALANCE?
3. WHAT ARE THE SIMILARITIES AND/OR DIFFERENCES IN ITS USE AS COMPARED TO SIMILAR TOOLS IN CAPTURE ONE PRO AND ADOBE PHOTOSHOP?

Test Results:
Aperture 1.1:
Image Temperature: 3594
Tint: -17
When using the white balance tool on a white section of a photo, the RGB values changed from R 255 G 234 B 192 to R 255 G 230 B 197 and the Temperature changed to 3946 and Tint to 12.
The photo still remained unacceptable.
When usint the white balance tool on a grey section of the same photo, the RGB values cahnge from R 211 G 178 B 126 to R 208 G 180 B 162 and the Temperatue changed to 3154 and Tint to 2.
The photo still remained unacceptable but was notably improved.
Using Capture One Pro, the results were as follows:
Temperatue: 3850
Tint: -10
When using the white balance tool on a white section of the same photo, the RGB values changed from R 255 G 241 B 200 to R 244 G 244 B 244 and the Temperature changed to 2500 and Tint to -16.
Photo was very acceptable with no perceivable colour cast.
When using the white balance tool on a grey section of the same photo, the RGB values changed from R 190 G 153 B 108 to R 153 G 153 B 153 and Temperature to 2550 and Tint to -2.
Photo was very acceptable with no perceivable colour cast.
From this quick test on a photo, I can draw the following conclusions:
1. Aperture interprets temperature and tint data differently from Capture One Pro, although this likely due to the use of a camera profile within Capture One Pro;
2. Using the white balance tool in Aperture on a "white" section does not neutralize the RGB values;
3. Using the white balance tool in Aperture on a "white" section does not correctly remove a colour cast within a photograph;
4. Using the white balance tool in Aperture on a "grey" section does not neutralize the RGB values; and
5. Using the white balance tool in Aperture on a "grey" section does not correctly remove a colour cast within a photograph, although it does work better.

Question about stamping white balance

Hello,
I'm a beginner in Aperture and have the following question for which I haven't found an answer yet.
Let me explain what I did and where the problem rose:
I have a set of photo's (400+, RAW), all taken at the same location under nearly same conditions (oldtimer rally, outside, sunny weather).
I've adjusted the first image by choosing:
Exposure: 'auto'
White balance: 'auto'
White balance was changed by Aperture in (in the Inspector): Temperature & Tint and for both a specific value.
I changed the second image the same way.
Again Aperture choose Temperature & Tint for white balance and specific, but other, values than for the first image.
Fine sofar.
I lifted the adjustments of the second image:
Adjustments:
White balance : Auto White Balance
Exposure : Auto Exposure
Deselected everything but Adjustments for White balance and Exposure.
Selected image 3 until the last one and stamped them.
80% of the image's OK but for about 20% of the photo's, Aperture came up (in the Inspector) with "White balance: natural gray".
So I thought to be smart and changed one photo (White balance : natural gray) to Temperature & Tint.
Photo adjusted: OK.
If I lift the adjustments of this photo, Aperture shows:
Adjustments:
White balance : Temperature (4851.60), Tint (10.68)
Exposure : Auto Exposure
If I select this and use it to stamp all "White balance: natural gray" photo's, I have the problem that the 'stamp' also stamps the temperature and tint values where I want it, of course, to 'auto detect' these values as they are not the same for each photo for the best result.
Any solution for this?
Kind regards,
emeu1

oh, well that tell me a lot, it blends in on the other iPhones and iwas thinking about switching for the firs time and getting an iPhone 5s silver since its dropped down. I guess in all actuality it doest matter much, I'm jet one of those users with ocd and detail analysis, making sure its always up to standards. but all in all, I'm thinking to spend more time at an apple store messing with the white iPhones
but it always helps to get a users opinion
thanks

Can you remove the camera white balance setting in Aperture

I have a Canon 7D and use Aperture for processing and storing my images.
With the Canon I shoot both video and still and frequently adjust the white balance in the camera. I make a frequent mistake in leaving the wrong white balance setting on - eg when taking video indoors in the evening I set the white balance to indoors (the Canon seems poor at white balance decision making on video) and then I forget I'm not using auto white balance and switch to taking a photo with flash. The result is a horrible blue photo - which if I don't spot the problem at the time seems very hard to correct afterwards.
I use the Aperture white balance adjustments frequently but unless there is a patch or white or grey I an use the dropper on, I find this particular situation seems to be right off the scale of what I can fix in Aperture. I end up with sliders at the extremes of the scales and no intuitive sense of what numbers to type in manually to try and get realistic colour - so I often end up discarding these photos even if the shot itself is something I'd like to use.
So my question is given I'm importing RAW, is there a way to show the phoo without the (wrong) white balance setting I applied in the camera, to let me choose white balance from scratch?
Or if not, do you have any advice about how to adjust from this very bluey unrealistic colour of image?

Kirkby - thanks for the quick reply.
Didn't know you could drag inside a value field - that's helpful.
But being able to get different numbers on the slider isn't the root of my problem.
In a specific example I have two photos - one taken with white balance set to flash and the photo was with flash, where after a bit of tweaking to get the colour I want the temp slider is at 5000K (and tint 0). The second photo has my shooting error with interior lighting white balance but taken with flash. The two shots were taken from almost the same point of the same view (but different people in frame). The shot with the white balance error comes off camera horribly blue coloured. I can fiddle with the two sliders - I take temperature to 20000K and tint to 40 to do the best with it I can, and with those settings one of the two faces is approaching flesh colour but the wall behind the subjects (which is a light blue in reality) is now appearing light yellow in places. I just can't get a good looking colour effect no matter ow extreme the slider settings.
I may have phrased my question badly - as I totally agree you can't show a raw without a colour setting - so maybe I'm better asking to be able to use a different colour setting on the raw data rather than having to start with adjustments on top of my white balance mistake.
Given the two shots were in the same place against the same background and the same lighting (both with flash) it seems to me I ought to be able to get a similar colour effect on both and I just can't. To illustrate here are the two photos (the one on the left was shot with flash wb and in Aperture I'm viewing it with 5000K and 0 tint, the one on the right was shot with indoor wb and in Aperture I'm viewing it with 20000K and 40 tint and it looks terrible!)
https://www.box.com/shared/qle3t6ovyhrd1egez3vc

Aperture white balance default

I'm new to Aperture
The Aperture white balance default is 6826 (tint 13).
I set my camera wb to Flash.
How can I change the Aperture default WB to Flash?
In my meta data all my images have a wb=Flash. Should Aperture read the metadata to set the WB?
Tony

Hello Tony,
welcome to the Aperture Forum of the Apple Support Communities. Can you explain a little bit more, which default setting you are talking about?
At first I thought you were talking about the default setting for the White Balance adjustment in the adjustment panel of the Library inspector. But that one is set to a color temperature of 5000K (Horizon daylight), a suitable preset for landscape photography - at least, that setting is what I see in my Aperture version.
The number you quote "6826 K" is in the range of the color temperature of a LCD or CRT screen, suitable for the display of digital images on a screen. Where did you find that setting?
If you want to adjust any image to the setting the white balance your camera was set to, then you need to define a preset for the White Balance adjustment in the adjustment panel of the Library Inspector. Set this to the color temperature of your flashlight - it should be somewhere in the range of 5,500–6,000 K. Do you know the exact color temperature for the flash setting of your camera?
Regards
Léonie

Problem transferring white balance Exif info from iPhoto to Aperture

I originally posted this question on the Aperture discussions page, but it was suggested to me that maybe I should try asking it on the iPhoto page as well.
I want to transfer my iPhoto library over to Aperture, but am reluctant to do so until I have familiarised myself with the new program. (I have over 23,000 photos in iPhoto.)
As a start, I have imported a few of my recent photos from iPhoto so that I can find my way around Aperture. One thing puzzles me. I can see the white balance information for each photo in iPhoto but the white balance field is greyed out in the Aperture metadata, and there is no 'cloud' or 'sun' picture at the top right of the Info panel, even though the white balance field is ticked in the Metadata Fields panels for Exif Info and Camera Info. I really need to know which camera setting I used for each photo to help me learn how to take better photos, but as far as I can see the information is not available to me anywhere in Aperture.
I have performed Aperture Library First Aid (repaired permissions and database, and rebuilt database) but the problem still exists. At the suggestion of someone on the Aperture page I have also created a new Aperture library and then imported some original photos from iPhoto which I exported to the desktop and then into the new Aperture library. I had the same problem, with no white balance information showing. That's when I was advised to try the iPhoto discussions page as well!
Does anyone have any ideas for me please?

Well, Terence, it duly showed up the white balance data when I shot a Raw photo. But I don't understand why Aperture recognises white balance for Raw but won't show it for Jpegs, whereas iPhoto recognises both.

How do I include metadata information (aperture, shutter speed, ISO and white balance) to each image on contact sheet?

How do I include metadata information (aperture, shutter speed, ISO and white balance) to each image on contact sheet?

Just to expand JimHess reply. This are all the EXIF data you can include on a print. As far as I know, WB is not written to any standard EXIF fields.

Aperture 3 - Multiple White Balance Presets

Just installed the Aperture 3 Trial and found that on the Adjustments pane, I'm seeing to White Balance preset flyouts under the Presets dropdown. The entries on each of these flyout menus are different. Plus, I can't see what the actual settings are for each preset when I try to edit. Any idea what's going on?
Thanks.
- Leon

I think I may have answered my own questions. It looks like Aperture 3 provided it's own presets for White Balance and it imported the one's I created in Aperture 2, but put them under a second White Balance flyout. That explains mystery number one.
Regarding the ability to see the values included in the preset, they used to show up in the edit window. Now it looks like the only way to see them is to select them and see the settings they apply in the Adjustments pane.
Can anyone confirm these behaviors?
Thanks.
- Leon

Does Aperture always apply white balance to RAW files?

Hi Aperture users,
I have been an Aperture user for many years. Aperture handles the white balance of my Canon XTi RAW files just as I want it to: it interprets the RAW data by applying the white balance selected at the time of the photo. I.e., when Aperture decodes the RAW file, it makes it look more-or-less like the in-camera JPG with respect to the white balance.
However, in the past several months, many well-known contributors of this forum have stated "RAW is RAW -- Aperture will not apply any camera settings." This statement was made in response to many "novice" questions about why a RAW photo in Aperture did not look anything like the JPG from the camera.
So, my questions:
Does anyone have a camera to whose RAW files Aperture does not apply in-camera white balance settings?
Does everyone else agree that this exception to "RAW is RAW" is acceptable?
thanks,
nathan

Hi Nathan -- I was hoping someone much more informed than me would weigh in with some engineering truth. All I got on offer is the thin gruel of observation.
Mr Endo wrote:
So, my questions:
Does anyone have a camera to whose RAW files Aperture does not apply in-camera white balance settings?
Does everyone else agree that this exception to "RAW is RAW" is acceptable?
1. I don't. RAW is sensor data. Most cameras record the White Balance camera setting as a metadata tag attached to the RAW data (The WB has no effect at all on the captured data.) Most RAW converters use this setting as the default WB. Some RAW converters perform "colorimetric interpretation" -- they basically compare the data captured to a generic color space and assign a WB. (This is, I assume, the same thing a camera set to "Auto WB" does. My camera is superb at assigning a WB for any mixed scene; it's repeatably bad, though, whenever the actual scene is truly colored (meaning "away from average").) In both cases -- 1. using the attached-to-the-RAW-data WB, and 2. analyzing the captured data to intelligently predict the WB -- a WB is applied to the RAW data. It has to be, in order to produce an image from the data.
2. The problem here isn't that this is an exception -- it's that different people mean different things when they say "RAW". The RAW data is RAW data. As above, the WB setting has no effect on it. But the image derived from the data -- any image produced from the data -- much have a WB set (and, for human use, a tone-curve applied). Some people mistaken think that RAW is an image format, or that the image produced by the RAW converter is a "RAW" image. It is not. RAW data must be converted to an image format in order to be displayed as an image. The conversion must apply a WB.
I have found it useful (though perhaps mistaken) to conceive of my data-gathering to picture-making as following these steps:
. Capture a pattern of light. This is just data.
. Convert the data to an image. RAW conversion done by Aperture. (NB: the settings for this can be changed.)
. Adjust the image to my artistic satisfaction
. Convert the adjusted image to an image format file
. Publish the image-format file in one or two now standard forms: to be viewed on a computer monitor, or as a print.
I mention only because at some point I consciously added the "Convert data to image" step in order to better grasp the process. RAW data is RAW data -- but that step identifies an intermediate that many overlook. At that step the information recorded along with the RAW data and stored in the RAW file is applied to the RAW data.
To me, "RAW is RAW" is correct. "Aperture will not apply any camera settings," is wrong.
I am happy for any clarifications or corrections.

I am unable to find white balance in Aperture?

Get my RAW images down loaded into a new project,
Where do you find white balance setting to manipulate?
Only facilities available are crop, touch.
Am I missing something here?

That depends on what you want to do with your images.
First you should calibrate your monitor..
And if you then wan to print images with one of your printers you should select the approriate profile in the proofing menu.
check here for more about colour proofing/calibration in Aperture:
http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2007/02/13/insideaperturepodcast-9.html

Aperture: White Balance in Adjustments inspector no longer appears by default

Aperture 3.3.2
In the past week, the White Balance adjustment in the Adjustments inspector no longer appears by default in my program. It's always been there, above Exposure, Enhance, and Highlights and Shadows.
Now, White Balance is gone, and I have to click 'add adjustment... White Balance' for every single photo, which is hugely frustrating. I shoot in Canon RAW.
What happened to my default White Balance, and can someone help me put it back?
Thanks!

Click the cogwheel beside the White Balance adjustment and add this adjustment to the default set.
Regards
Léonie

Iso, Shutter Speed, Aperture, White balance for music videos or film?

Hello everyone. I just started making music videos. I just want some tips or can someone direct me to a good guide for music videos. I know the basics of iso, shutter speed, and aperture already. I read some guides and so far I know I gotta put my shutter at 1/50 or if i'm recording something at high speed, i increase it. is it so? Also, I always put my aperture at the lowest. I have a Canon T2i and Canon lenses 50 f/1.8 and kit lens. I always put my aperture at the lowest 3.5(kit lens) or 1.8. The tricky part is the ISO. I don't know where to put my ISO. I know the lowest ISO is good but sometimes the video looks dark. Do I fix this in video editing programs? Like should I always stay at ISO 100? What about white balance? I use Final Cut 7.
Also, what about during the day and night? Indoors? etc I also have a cheap LED lights.

your questions are about the very basics of photography.
I would consider to buy a book, which explains photography 'from the ground' ("... for dummies.." not meant as an offence!)
in short:
a scenery offers a defined amount of light.
Your cameras 'film' aka sensor, needs a defined amount of light to deliver a picture.
So, on recoprding, you have to control the amount of light, and the controls are:
aperture - opened or closed
shutter - shorter or longer
speed (ISO) - higher or lower.
Imagine the light as a stream of tiny balls, coming from your scenery: a bigger hole = aperture lets more balls into the cam. A shorter shutter speed reduces the amount of balls. And a higher ISO catches more balls than a lower. ..
Understanding that, you realize that those parameters are crosswise-related: an open aperture + a shorter shutter speed results in the same amount of light on the sensor as a closed aperture and a longer shutter speed.
If the amount of light is still too much, lower the sensitivity = ISO.
If the amount of light is too little, open the aperture, or use a longer shutter speed or raise the sensitivity.
When you set one or two parameters in this equation, you have to adjust the other ones: Video-makers start with the shutter speed, usually set to 1/2 of frame-rate = 1/50 - 1/60 - why? Because it allows a nice looking 'smear' aka motion-blur aka 'film look'.
Now, with a given speed, you can conrtol teh amount of light for the sensor only by aparture; and when you reach limits, by setting ISO.
When you understood this BY PRACTICING, you're next step is the concept of 'shallow focus'/depth of field. And when you understood this BY PRACTICING, you'll will understand the need of Neutral Densitity Filters for movie-makers...
But first things first: buy a book; read your cam's amnual; practice the settings and watch carefully the different results, diff. settings result.
... and it's really just about basics - independently of your device and/or your software.
None of the things mentioned above can be done or 'fixed' in post... (basically...)
happy movie making!

White Balance in LR vs. Aperture

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