White Balance Selector Tool operation

The WB selector tool still appears as though it only selects one pixel in the the "Pick a Target Neutral" array display window, the one with the x over it (regardles of whether you scale the matrix to 16x16 or 5x5 with the scale slider. It does not appear to allow averaging of adjacent pixels to reduce the effect of random noisy pixels messing up the wb. This has already been brought up in previous threads and the LR team apparently dismisses the concern. Reminder to Adobe Labs: we don't all shoot with relatively noiseless Nikon D3/ D700s. Our cameras do produce significant color noise even at relatively low ISOs. So when we attempt to find a neutral patch or pick a spot on a neutral whibal card with the color picker tool, we see a random array of various shades of gray, some a little more purple, some a little more green in the tool's selection window. Depending on which pixel we place the X on, we get a different white balance. EVEN THOUGH WE ARE HOVERING OVER WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE AN EVENLY LIT NEUTRAL BALANCE CARD! Could you guys please talk with your Photoshop colleagues and figure out how to give us a 5x5 or NxN pixel averaging white balance picker. Or maybe you confirm that I am wrong and in fact this tool already DOES average all the pixels I see in the "Pick a Target Neutral" pixel array display? This would be far more useful an option than the ability to put a decorative flourish at the bottom of a menu panel! Thanks.

In addition to the point being made above in regards to a 3x3 or 5x5 pixel eye dropper for the selection of your color balance(color temperature), it would be great to have an eye dropper to select & set your black, white & mid grey(18%) point inside of lightroom to not only neutralize any color cast but also to set your tonal values with a x-rite color checker or similar reference.

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White balance selector tool in LR

just a general question here: when using the "white balance selector" eyedropper tool in LR, is this effectively equivalent to neutralizing the greys in PS, i.e. via the midtones eyedropper in a levels adjustment? just curious...

If you have both PS/Adobe Camera Raw and LR applications, you may find this this link helpful:
http://forums.adobe.com/message/3436153?tstart=0
I have both PS CS5 and LR 3, but do 99% of my digital camera and scanner image processing in LR. For things like dust spot removal on slide and negative scans PS CS5 spot healing brush and clone stamp tools are superior to LR's. I also don't need "spot removal" and initial frame cropping of scans to be non-destructive. Once this is done I open in LR and do everything else non-destructively.

White balance selector tool

When i select the wb tool in the develop mode and move it over the image the RGB numbers do not show up in the floating grid.
Is there somthing I need to select for this to work ?
Ken

Ken,
It's a known bug with 3.3RC.
Hal

White Balance Selector Disappears when moved across the image

Hi
I am using LR 4.4 on an iMac.
Does anyone know why the White Balance Selector tool would disappear when moved across an image?
it seems to change to a vertical line with an arror top and bottom.
The areas of the image on which it disappears seem to be consistent, in other words, it disappears on the same portion of the image eveytime.
UPDATE: Since posting the above a few minutes ago I've noticed that my cursor is behaving eractically. For example, on a different image to the one used above, in the library module using the Loupe the cursor changes from a magnifying glass to an arrow pointing to the right. It does this on the same part of the image every time.
Thank you for your help
Regards
Message was edited by: iwaddo

Weird cursor problems are a FEATURE of the APPLE os.
There are complaints on the APPLE os system website since 2005.
The last time I checked there were 30 pages of discussions about this on the apple site
https://discussions.apple.com/community/mac_os/os_x_mountain_lion.
I don't think APPLE has a clue as to how to fix this. It is seen in many apps, photoshop most commonly, lightroom,textedit,exxcel, and others.
Pray that something happens in soon to be released 10.8.4.
vince

White balance selector reading

Is it possible to change a setting or preference in Lightroom so that the white balance selector tool will give a 0-255 value reading, instead of a 0-99 value? Having that option would allow users to better correlate their readings with what will show up once the images is analyzed with Photoshop's eyedropper tools and info window. Answers, Anyone?

You may have noticed that the values shown in the WB probe loupe are the same as those shown under the histogram. These numbers represent RGB values in a unique hybrid color space, Melissa RGB which has the ProPhoto RGB gamut and the sRGB tone curve. RGB values are always relative to a particular color space, therefore when the image is exported in one of the more standard spaces the numbers will be different. Even if you export in ProPhoto RGB the values will be different because although the gamut is the same the tone curve is gamma 1.8 instead of the "sort of" gamma 2.2 of sRGB. That is why the numerical read-outs - histogram and WB probe - are given as percentages instead of absolute 8 bit values - to avoid confusion that could be caused by displaying numbers that are essentially meaningless. However, in LR4 and LR5 you can soft proof to one of the standard spaces and at that time the read-out under the histogram will be in 0 - 255 numbers. You can even change the targeted proof space and see how the values change for the same pixel. Moreover, in LR5 you can change the read-out during editing to L*a*b* numbers if you find that more useful.

White Balance Selector Target Calibration

I utilize a target calibration system with a panel that is 18% grey. With Lightroom 2 I would simply use the white balance selector and click on the grey and have perfect white balance. However with Lightroom 3 this no longer works consistently. In fact sometimes the White balance set to off the chart numbers like 12,000. Any ideas or thoughts?!
Thanks,
David

Could you post a screenshot of how it looks like.
I guess you could be talking about the White Balance Loupe.
You can disable that by unticking "Show Loupe" when you have the White Balance Selector active. (But I wouldn't call the Loupe a "weird little mess of different coloured dots", more like a gride. And it doesn't obscure the pipette either).
/Andreas

RGB % values no longer visible in white balance selection tool loupe

When using the white balance selection tool in LR3.3 RC the RGB values no longer show in the loupe window while moving the tool around the picture. The only way I can get the values to show is to stop moving the tool and then click any one of several keys (e.g. Ctrl, or Shift, or Alt, or \, etc.) As soon as I then move the tool the RGB values again disappear until I stop and again click one of the keys. It had worked fine previously in LR3 (?before I updated from 3.2 to 3.3 - that is, the values would show continuously as I moved the tool around the image. Any thoughts about what to do?
Thanks.

Tom Hogarty wrote:
We did catch this bug and it will be fixed in the final Lightroom 3.3 release. Thanks for posting your experience.
Regards,
Tom Hogarty
Lightroom Product Manager
Nice to see you here Tom.. Thanks for the update. Is it somehow related to some of the other issues being reported about the TAT tool, just thinking they are both perhaps "pointer" related?
Jay S.

Local white balance adjustment tool

I really like the new local white balance adjustment tool. If I could change something will be to give a real color temperature to the tool instead of a number from -100 to 100. Let me give you an example of how I used it today.
I forgot to bring some gels for my flashes for a photo shoot. I was using the flashes to illuminate the foreground and I had fluorescent lightening on the background. It was the perfect opportunity to try the new tool. I knew exactly what the color temperature for both front and back were. I applied the background color temperature of 3200k to the picture and when to locally change the foreground. At this point I was guessing what it should be at. My monitor is color calibrated but I was under fluorescent lights with my laptop. Instead I could have added +2200k or dialed 5500k to the local adjustment tool.
Please let me know if you need more information.

I'm sorry I found another discussion about this topic already. Shame on me I didn't do a more thorough search on it before.
You can find that discussion here
http://forums.adobe.com/message/4138582#4138582

Lightroom White Balance Selector

Why are the RGB numbers in the Lightroom White Balance Selector different than the RGB numbers in Photoshop's Info palette?
If you convert the image in Photoshop to 32bit the RGB numbers are the same as the White Balance Selector in Lightroom, is Lightroom's WB Selector reading 32bit RGB values?

>Since prophotoRGB has a 1.8 gamma and prophoto has a 1.8 gamma, the numbers will be different, even if you do the math (divide by 2.56 for the 8-bit display).
Actually, while the histogram and samples are in "Melissa RGB" (so named by Mark Hamburg in tribute to Melissa Gual, the LR QE) in fact, the processing pipeline is using a linear gamma version of ProPhoto RGB. All of which means that the numbers shown in Lightroom really don't bear any relationship to any usable normal color spaces as you would have in Photoshop with a given working space.
The net result is that Lightroom reads out in %s instead of an arbitrary color space. Since, in Lightroom in Develop, the image isn't yet in a defined color space, it would be useless to actually give you readouts in a color spacewhich is what Photoshop can do (since the image is in a defined color space).
So, Lightroom and Photoshop are using different scales...

I am on Lightroom 5 and the exposure and white balance adjustment tools on the right side of the scr

I am on Lightroom 5 and the exposure and white balance adjustment tools on the right side of the screen have disappeared. How do I restore them?

Right click on one of the other panel headers e.g Tone Curve and a menu will pop up for you to select Basic.
How it gets de-selected is not apparent but several users have had this happen since the release of version 5. It has ahppened to me on at least two occasions.

The Lightroom Manual is Not Clear on Options for the White-Balance Tool

In the section "Working with image tone and color" the Lightroom manual states:
Specify a neutral area in the photo
1. In the Basic panel of the Develop module, click the White Balance Selector tool to select it, or press the W key.
2. Move the White Balance Selector into an area of the photo that should be a neutral light gray. Avoid spectral highlights or areas that are
100% white.
3. Set options in the toolbar as needed.
Sets the White Balance Selector tool to dismiss automatically after clicking only once in the photo.
Displays a close-up view and the RGB values of a sampling of pixels under the White Balance Selector.
Zooms the close-up view in the Loupe...."
Item 3 is unclear. I selected the white balance selector, and moved it to an area as instructed,
but I cannot find any toolbar with the options described.
How do I get to this mysterious toolbar?? Everyone seems to think its a simple thing, but I cannot find it and I am not able to set any of the options described!
While I am sure this is a simple thing, I think that the manual should be much more clear about this description; what is there now is very inadequate.

It should be directly underneath the image preview - press the T key if it's not there.

Images look different with same white balance

Hey folks,
Just ran some tests between a Nikon D300 and a Nikon D7000. I pulled both images into Lightroom 3.4 (PC), and matched the white balance using the White Balance Selector tool and a WhiBal card in a test image. And even though they now have the same white balance, the colors are distinctly different. How is this possible? (The same image shot with a D200 looks nearly identical to the D300.) Examples:
D7000
D300
All other specs the same:
Nikon 17-55mm f/2.8 @50mm
1/80 @ f/5.6, ISO 200
RAW
Color space: AdobeRGB
Picture Control setting: SD (standard)
Custom white balance from WhiBal card, matched in Lightroom 3.4: 5200, +38
I need to be able to shoot with multiple bodies and sync them so I don't have to adjust the batches separately.
Thanks in advance

WB is not the only factor involved in how colour is created in a digital image. The WB just sets the colour temperature. How the colour is created is effected by many other factors, hence calibration profiles. By calibrating the sensor you can produce a standardised response for a particular individual sensor. You could then carefully match this with a different sensor. However there will always be subtle differences. It would be far easier when requiring a particular shoot to have exactly the same look, to use one camera and one lens to achieve it.
When making a film, directors, such as Hitchcock, would insist on not only using the same film stock, from the same batch, but in the case of Vertigo even had the same water source used for all processing to achieve the look he was after.

Real Problems With White Balance Tool

I attempted to white balance an image I took using the White Balance eyedropper tool, and selecing an area on a Grey Balance Target. Well, Aperture is doing a horrible job of white balancing the image. With Aperture, I exported the image to Photoshop and white balanced it using levels.
You can see the side by side images here along with the corresponding RGB values. The image on the left, is the one that Aperture "thinks" is white balanced. Since there doesn't seem to be a way to check RGB values within Aperture I can't say what they really are, other than to use OS X's Digital Color Meter, which shows exactly what Photoshop is telling me...the image has a definite blue cast to it.
http://www.johnburdick.us/WhiteBalance.jpg
I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, or if Aperture's white balance function is not working as advertised..
Any suggestions? Has anyone else had these issues?
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.3 4.5Gb RAM Mac OS X (10.4.2)
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.3 Mac OS X (10.4.2)

Apple are being deliberately deceptive on this issue.
I have been to a couple of demo's at their store and watched the demonstrator use the same wedding photo each time to highlight the power of the white balance eye-dropper. I think this is the only photo on the face of the earth to give a half-way decent result from the eye-dropper (and even then it's still a little blue).
When I cornered the demonstrator on this specific issue he tried to use another image (one of the Tibet portraits) and the results were horrible and he was forced to concede that this tool was lousy.
I simply don't believe the software developers weren't aware of the shortcomings of this and yet they still decided to release and insult their customers with it.
But this is a minor issue compared with the overall quality of the images coming out of the RAW adjustments.
I can't understand why photographers are still fighting to make this application work. Sure, as a image selection/management tool it's very nice but beyond that it's garbage.
I've returned my copy to the Apple Store where I purchased it and received a full refund thankfully.

White Balance not working

I'm using Aperture 3.2.2 and when I use the white balance 'pipette' tool to select neutral grey area no changes are applied. I think I know how this tool works as I have used it in the past. The image I am trying to adjust I also know needs adjusting as it was shot using bounced flash off an cream surface. Of course I can manually change the white balance using the temperature and tint sliders but have found better results in the past using the select neutral grey.
Anyone else having this issue and know of a fix?

Is it only on certain images that the white balance pipette tool does not work, or is it a general problem?
If it does not work on any images, delete the Aperture Preference files, as described in
Aperture 3: Troubleshooting Basics: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3805
for sometimes user interface elements do not work, when preference files are corrupted.
If only some images cannot be adjusted, then try the library "first aid": repairing permissions and library.
Regards
Léonie

A dumb question about kelvin and white balance in Lightroom

I keep reading a high kelvin number is cooler and a low number is warmer, but in light room, in the develope module, the lower number ( 3500 ) is blue, and a higher number, (7000) is very yellow. What am I missing?

Lee is essentially correct with his analysis but incorrect with the details. The Kelvin colour temperature scale is between Yellow and Blue, not Red and Blue as stated.
There's a lot of confusion about this, with many digital photographers missing the significance of the difference between cyan and blue, magenta and red etc.
To be fair, the printing industry has added to the confusion by traditionally calling printing inks Blue, Red and Yellow when they really are cyan, magenta and yellow.
Even Adobe can get it wrong. In the initial Lightroom beta release, the temperature scale had the colours Cyan at one end and Yellow at the other. I suggested it be changed to Blue to make it correct and less confusing which thankfully was implemented in the next update.
Despite decades of working with colour both in the darkroom and with Photoshop, I too struggle with the counter-intuitive approach of the colour temperature reading in Lightroom.
Essentially, if you shoot in light that is too blue, then you need to add Yellow. So the Kelvin number displayed in Lightroom isn't the 'Mired' correction or the amount of Yellow added, but a readout of the scene's original colour temperature before the Yellow correction.
This can be really useful. I use several different branded flash units with various reflectors and attachments. I recently ran a test, shooting a Macbeth colour checker with all the different combinations.
I then used the White Balance Selector (dropper) on the neutral 5 patch and wrote down the resulting colour temperature.
From that I could work out what filter corrections I needed to use on each flash and reflector to produce consistent daylight balance.
Most flashes seem to be around 6000ºK but I had variation between 5200ºK & 6400ºK with the combinations.

White Balance Selector Tool operation

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