Who would benefit from Forte?
Ari Singh wrote a provocative piece questioning the benefits of Forte
in "Windows only", non-large scale applications. Rather than get into
a large philosopical discussion, I would like to illustrate my point
with an example taken from a current Forte project.
First, my background: 10+ years in Client server applications. Worked
for several years at Oracle and have experience with Sybase. Worked
extensively with a 2 tiered CS product (Uniface) and write C and C++.
NOT a Windows expert.
In our current application, the requirement is to allow the user to
browse literally thousands of records on the Windows Client. There will
never be lots of users doing this, but the ones that do must have
reasonable performance. Our initial tests indicated that if we simply
had the server pump the data to the client, we would have significant
performance problems and face memory limitations on the PC. SO we
utilized Forte's N-tiered capabilities. When the user starts a query
(using dynamic sql with user controlled WHERE and ORDER BY), we start
an asynchronous retrieval on the server with data is cached in an
anchored object on the server. When the query has found the first
THIRTY (30) records (2 screens worth), it posts an event to the client
and the client request the first thirty. The retrieval process continues
independently while the user can browse data on the client. Not until
the user scrolls down far enough does the client again request more
data. If the user quits from the screen or starts a new query, the
first one is cancelled. Otherwise, the query runs to completion on the
server.
This approach gives us 3-5 second response time regardless of the size
of the query result set. It minimizes the data on the client (moving
us toward a thin client). The kicker is that with the help of Martha
Lyman from Forte, we developed this technique in about 4 hours! Add
to this all the standard inheritance, OO stuff, partitioning,
customized monitoring, etc, etc, and IT IS MY OPINION that Forte
is a GOOD tool for any development that is bigger than a breadbox
and worth the $$$. And that's the way it is.... SO there...
Jerry Fatcheric
Relational Options, Inc.
Florham Park, New Jersey
201-301-0200
201-301-00377 (FAX)
[email protected]
Ari Singh wrote a provocative piece questioning the benefits of Forte
in "Windows only", non-large scale applications. Rather than get into
a large philosopical discussion, I would like to illustrate my point
with an example taken from a current Forte project.
First, my background: 10+ years in Client server applications. Worked
for several years at Oracle and have experience with Sybase. Worked
extensively with a 2 tiered CS product (Uniface) and write C and C++.
NOT a Windows expert.
In our current application, the requirement is to allow the user to
browse literally thousands of records on the Windows Client. There will
never be lots of users doing this, but the ones that do must have
reasonable performance. Our initial tests indicated that if we simply
had the server pump the data to the client, we would have significant
performance problems and face memory limitations on the PC. SO we
utilized Forte's N-tiered capabilities. When the user starts a query
(using dynamic sql with user controlled WHERE and ORDER BY), we start
an asynchronous retrieval on the server with data is cached in an
anchored object on the server. When the query has found the first
THIRTY (30) records (2 screens worth), it posts an event to the client
and the client request the first thirty. The retrieval process continues
independently while the user can browse data on the client. Not until
the user scrolls down far enough does the client again request more
data. If the user quits from the screen or starts a new query, the
first one is cancelled. Otherwise, the query runs to completion on the
server.
This approach gives us 3-5 second response time regardless of the size
of the query result set. It minimizes the data on the client (moving
us toward a thin client). The kicker is that with the help of Martha
Lyman from Forte, we developed this technique in about 4 hours! Add
to this all the standard inheritance, OO stuff, partitioning,
customized monitoring, etc, etc, and IT IS MY OPINION that Forte
is a GOOD tool for any development that is bigger than a breadbox
and worth the $$$. And that's the way it is.... SO there...
Jerry Fatcheric
Relational Options, Inc.
Florham Park, New Jersey
201-301-0200
201-301-00377 (FAX)
[email protected]
Similar Messages
-
RE : Who would benefit from Forte?
RE : Jerry Fatcheric's message about "Who would benefit from Forte?"
With regards the point mentioned in the attached message from Jerry
Fatcheric below, I would like to illustrate my point. I implemented in both
Visual Basic and Delphi, the example that is mentioned in the attached
message, about a browser application, having the capability to browse
thousands of records with the inital screenful needing to come ASAP. It took
me less than 2 minutes to implement this in VB (I timed it). Just threw a
"remote data" control and a "DBGrid" control on a form, set a few properties
and wrote a "select *" sql specifying that only 30 records be returned at a
time. For a table with 4K records, the first 30 came in and got displayed in
less than 2 seconds. In Delphi, the response was even better and whole 4K of
record could be retrieved in less than 4 second. (Yes less than 4 seconds
for retrieving 4000 records from a DB2/NT database running on a remote
machine). Even I could not believe the performance of Delphi which I haven't
used that much. These tools are THE fastest way to get the data from a
database server to a windows client. These will perform any day better than
FORTE. One of the problem that I came across FORTE in one of situations like
this was data movement across nodes is very costly. In one of our
applications, since we stored the data as objects, in a similar situation as
you have mentioned, the performance of moving a lot of data form the server
to the client was not very good and in consulation with FORTE technical
support we had to convert the data in objects to scalar (delimited string),
move across node, and convert the data back to object at a client.
Performance increase - 40 secs. vs 120 secs. earlier.
About my background. I have worked about 8 years in application development
and for the past 4 years have been working in a client server environment.
Being a consultant, I have used many tools, including FORTE for one year, to
provide my clients with the most bang for their buck, which to me is the
topmost priority as a Consultant. I do not decide for my clients what
technology they should use but sure evaluate the various options they have
and recommend more than one solutions, listing the advantages and
disadvantages.
Currently working on coming up with a solution for a client with a customer
service application need with around 50 users now, scaling up to 100 users
in the future. The best solution that I could come up with was a logical
3-tier with the presentation and the business layer running on NT
workstation (client) and the database on NT server (server). With all the
processing on a powerful and healthy (not "fat") client the system, I feel
can scale very well. For a 500 user system, you literally have 500
application server (physically on the client machine) being served by one
data server. To the data server, having a physical middle tier between the
client and the data server, I feel would not help, at least in our
situation. Almost everything that the middle tier could do to reduce the
load on the data server can be handled by the "business layer" running on
the client machine. It does mean that each user connects to the database
directly so in a case of 500 user, there are 500 connections to the database
but lately with the sophisticated DBMS, this is no longer an issue. The DBMS
can manage this many user very economically (read the benchmark about SQL
server with 5000, yes 5k user at "www.microsoft.com/sql") and almost as well
as a middle tier. It is fault tolerant - nothing can bring down the system
except a client failure, the data server failure or a network failure, the
same failure points as a N-Tier solution unless you are replicating or
duplicating the database. In our solution our application is as scaleable as
the database is, and the databases available today are very scaleable if you
look at the current database technology offerings.
As you may have guessed the abovementioned solution is cheaper with a very
fast "time to market" than a forte solution (we started this about 6 months
back and are in production for the past 1 month). This may not have all the
features that FORTE offers, but for our purposes and I feel in similar
applications, what we got was what we needed. By no means, this is going to
meet all information tecnology needs for everyone and in many situations I
believe FORTE would be well suited than any other tool.
I still use FORTE can would continue to do so for some of the solutions that
we develop, but I do not think that one shoud be using FORTE for "any
development that is bigger than a breadbox" as Mr. Fatcheric suggests in the
attached message, simply because if I do that, than I think that in some
cases I would be selling the user a tank when the user just needs a rifle.
I consider giving my clients the most value for their money in getting this
solution developed. I would suggest my clients FORTE when I think they needs
them but would definitely suggest another solution if I think that they can
get their solution developed and get more value for their money using some
other tool. Towards this end I would like to find out what kind of solutions
people are developing and what kind of performance they are getting
specially related to Windows platform.
Any information about the benefits (actual benefits) you are getting from
FORTE would be highly appreciated which would let a lot of us decide when to
use FORTE and when not to use FORTE to meet ours and our clients'
everchanging information technology needs.
- Ari Singh
[email protected]
Ari Singh wrote a provocative piece questioning the benefits of Forte
in "Windows only", non-large scale applications. Rather than get into
a large philosopical discussion, I would like to illustrate my point
with an example taken from a current Forte project.
First, my background: 10+ years in Client server applications. Worked
for several years at Oracle and have experience with Sybase. Worked
extensively with a 2 tiered CS product (Uniface) and write C and C++.
NOT a Windows expert.
In our current application, the requirement is to allow the user to
browse literally thousands of records on the Windows Client. There will
never be lots of users doing this, but the ones that do must have
reasonable performance. Our initial tests indicated that if we simply
had the server pump the data to the client, we would have significant
performance problems and face memory limitations on the PC. SO we
utilized Forte's N-tiered capabilities. When the user starts a query
(using dynamic sql with user controlled WHERE and ORDER BY), we start
an asynchronous retrieval on the server with data is cached in an
anchored object on the server. When the query has found the first
THIRTY (30) records (2 screens worth), it posts an event to the client
and the client request the first thirty. The retrieval process continues
independently while the user can browse data on the client. Not until
the user scrolls down far enough does the client again request more
data. If the user quits from the screen or starts a new query, the
first one is cancelled. Otherwise, the query runs to completion on the
server.
This approach gives us 3-5 second response time regardless of the size
of the query result set. It minimizes the data on the client (moving
us toward a thin client). The kicker is that with the help of Martha
Lyman from Forte, we developed this technique in about 4 hours! Add
to this all the standard inheritance, OO stuff, partitioning,
customized monitoring, etc, etc, and IT IS MY OPINION that Forte
is a GOOD tool for any development that is bigger than a breadbox
and worth the $$$. And that's the way it is.... SO there...
Jerry Fatcheric
Relational Options, Inc.
Florham Park, New Jersey
201-301-0200
201-301-00377 (FAX)
[email protected]RE : Jerry Fatcheric's message about "Who would benefit from Forte?"
With regards the point mentioned in the attached message from Jerry
Fatcheric below, I would like to illustrate my point. I implemented in both
Visual Basic and Delphi, the example that is mentioned in the attached
message, about a browser application, having the capability to browse
thousands of records with the inital screenful needing to come ASAP. It took
me less than 2 minutes to implement this in VB (I timed it). Just threw a
"remote data" control and a "DBGrid" control on a form, set a few properties
and wrote a "select *" sql specifying that only 30 records be returned at a
time. For a table with 4K records, the first 30 came in and got displayed in
less than 2 seconds. In Delphi, the response was even better and whole 4K of
record could be retrieved in less than 4 second. (Yes less than 4 seconds
for retrieving 4000 records from a DB2/NT database running on a remote
machine). Even I could not believe the performance of Delphi which I haven't
used that much. These tools are THE fastest way to get the data from a
database server to a windows client. These will perform any day better than
FORTE. One of the problem that I came across FORTE in one of situations like
this was data movement across nodes is very costly. In one of our
applications, since we stored the data as objects, in a similar situation as
you have mentioned, the performance of moving a lot of data form the server
to the client was not very good and in consulation with FORTE technical
support we had to convert the data in objects to scalar (delimited string),
move across node, and convert the data back to object at a client.
Performance increase - 40 secs. vs 120 secs. earlier.
About my background. I have worked about 8 years in application development
and for the past 4 years have been working in a client server environment.
Being a consultant, I have used many tools, including FORTE for one year, to
provide my clients with the most bang for their buck, which to me is the
topmost priority as a Consultant. I do not decide for my clients what
technology they should use but sure evaluate the various options they have
and recommend more than one solutions, listing the advantages and
disadvantages.
Currently working on coming up with a solution for a client with a customer
service application need with around 50 users now, scaling up to 100 users
in the future. The best solution that I could come up with was a logical
3-tier with the presentation and the business layer running on NT
workstation (client) and the database on NT server (server). With all the
processing on a powerful and healthy (not "fat") client the system, I feel
can scale very well. For a 500 user system, you literally have 500
application server (physically on the client machine) being served by one
data server. To the data server, having a physical middle tier between the
client and the data server, I feel would not help, at least in our
situation. Almost everything that the middle tier could do to reduce the
load on the data server can be handled by the "business layer" running on
the client machine. It does mean that each user connects to the database
directly so in a case of 500 user, there are 500 connections to the database
but lately with the sophisticated DBMS, this is no longer an issue. The DBMS
can manage this many user very economically (read the benchmark about SQL
server with 5000, yes 5k user at "www.microsoft.com/sql") and almost as well
as a middle tier. It is fault tolerant - nothing can bring down the system
except a client failure, the data server failure or a network failure, the
same failure points as a N-Tier solution unless you are replicating or
duplicating the database. In our solution our application is as scaleable as
the database is, and the databases available today are very scaleable if you
look at the current database technology offerings.
As you may have guessed the abovementioned solution is cheaper with a very
fast "time to market" than a forte solution (we started this about 6 months
back and are in production for the past 1 month). This may not have all the
features that FORTE offers, but for our purposes and I feel in similar
applications, what we got was what we needed. By no means, this is going to
meet all information tecnology needs for everyone and in many situations I
believe FORTE would be well suited than any other tool.
I still use FORTE can would continue to do so for some of the solutions that
we develop, but I do not think that one shoud be using FORTE for "any
development that is bigger than a breadbox" as Mr. Fatcheric suggests in the
attached message, simply because if I do that, than I think that in some
cases I would be selling the user a tank when the user just needs a rifle.
I consider giving my clients the most value for their money in getting this
solution developed. I would suggest my clients FORTE when I think they needs
them but would definitely suggest another solution if I think that they can
get their solution developed and get more value for their money using some
other tool. Towards this end I would like to find out what kind of solutions
people are developing and what kind of performance they are getting
specially related to Windows platform.
Any information about the benefits (actual benefits) you are getting from
FORTE would be highly appreciated which would let a lot of us decide when to
use FORTE and when not to use FORTE to meet ours and our clients'
everchanging information technology needs.
- Ari Singh
[email protected]
Ari Singh wrote a provocative piece questioning the benefits of Forte
in "Windows only", non-large scale applications. Rather than get into
a large philosopical discussion, I would like to illustrate my point
with an example taken from a current Forte project.
First, my background: 10+ years in Client server applications. Worked
for several years at Oracle and have experience with Sybase. Worked
extensively with a 2 tiered CS product (Uniface) and write C and C++.
NOT a Windows expert.
In our current application, the requirement is to allow the user to
browse literally thousands of records on the Windows Client. There will
never be lots of users doing this, but the ones that do must have
reasonable performance. Our initial tests indicated that if we simply
had the server pump the data to the client, we would have significant
performance problems and face memory limitations on the PC. SO we
utilized Forte's N-tiered capabilities. When the user starts a query
(using dynamic sql with user controlled WHERE and ORDER BY), we start
an asynchronous retrieval on the server with data is cached in an
anchored object on the server. When the query has found the first
THIRTY (30) records (2 screens worth), it posts an event to the client
and the client request the first thirty. The retrieval process continues
independently while the user can browse data on the client. Not until
the user scrolls down far enough does the client again request more
data. If the user quits from the screen or starts a new query, the
first one is cancelled. Otherwise, the query runs to completion on the
server.
This approach gives us 3-5 second response time regardless of the size
of the query result set. It minimizes the data on the client (moving
us toward a thin client). The kicker is that with the help of Martha
Lyman from Forte, we developed this technique in about 4 hours! Add
to this all the standard inheritance, OO stuff, partitioning,
customized monitoring, etc, etc, and IT IS MY OPINION that Forte
is a GOOD tool for any development that is bigger than a breadbox
and worth the $$$. And that's the way it is.... SO there...
Jerry Fatcheric
Relational Options, Inc.
Florham Park, New Jersey
201-301-0200
201-301-00377 (FAX)
[email protected] -
FW: Who is FORTE for ? Who would benefit from FORTE?
Hi-
You made some good points in your recent posting. I like Forte' but also
see
advantages to using other tools based on specific requirements. See my
responses
below.
From: [email protected][SMTP:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, August 12, 1996 10:03 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Who is FORTE for ? Who would benefit from FORTE ?
Who is forte really for ? Who would benefit from FORTE ?
The main benefit of Forte' is the abilitity to develop on a particular
platform and deploy to a multi-tier environment with platforms of any
type.
Specifically I am wondering if it makes a lot of sense for
shops having all Microsoft Windows platform - both for client and
server to gain from FORTE.
IMHO, Forte' may not be the ideal solution in that kind of
environment. Although, it would work fine, there are plenty
of windows based tools and apps that would work fine and
probably faster and cleaner.
I think that there are so many easy-to-use and economical tool
which can do RAD and give decent client-server performance on
Microsoft Windows platform costing much less than a FORTE solution.
I agree. Forte' is expensive and would be overkill if you just needed
a C++ app using ODBC going against a small local database.
And with these solutions you can easily put your data server on a
Unix box and access it seamlessly on Windows platform without
any extra tools (almost all popular databases come with
this database connectivity built-in).
Correct, as long as you don't need to put business logic
on the same server as well. You add a lot of complexity
going to multi-tier but add the advantage of load balancing
and failover.
What I think is unless you have run your application (or at least
a piece of your application) on operating systems like Unix or DEC
or unless if you have different platforms in your organization to
deploy your application on, there is not much you'll gain from FORTE.
I like Forte', but I have to agree with you. In a straight Windows 95/NT
environment with a Unix database server, I'd go with something like
MS Viz C++ and MS Access or Oracle. Forte' offers a lot for the multi-
platform environment but does have a fairly steep learning curve,
especially
when it comes to the system admin piece. And initially, your system will
need a lot of hand holding till all the pieces fit. The lack of CM,object persistence,
use of their proprietary object broker etc are things that they'llneed to address
in upcoming releases to remain competitive.
Also if your application is not for a large number of users (large,
I think is 200+ user), you gain little from your investment in FORTE.
I believe that in this case you do not need a middleware, you can
have logical 3-tier (or n-tier) and deploy your application on
physical 2-tier (client and server) with more than one logical tier
running on one of the physical tier (client or server). Middleware,
I believe, is not worth the cost, effort and time unless you
absolutely need it.
Agreed, but it depends on your needs and requirements. We
at Corning, are developing some apps in Forte' and some in
C++ and are looking at object broker middleware to allow all
apps to share common objects. Our determination as to which
language/environment to use is based on many factors, some of
which you've already mentioned. Our servers are Vax OVMS, Alpha VMS,
and Alpha NT. Our clients are PCs (NT 3.51, NT4.0, W95, W3.1) and Alpha NT.
We had a couple of Macs but development and end user response was so
painfully
slow that they were replaced with far superior NT PCs (again, IMHO).
PS- You may want to check out Forte' Express before you make adecision, especially
if you are building DB apps with table editors/browsers. It is anexcellent rapid development
tool, and teamed with Select Enterprise (for round trip Development<--> Documentation)
it makes a great package._______________________________
Jeff Austin
Corning / CTE
[email protected]
http://fortefy.wilmington.net>
Hi-
You made some good points in your recent posting. I like Forte' but
also see
advantages to using other tools based on specific requirements. See my
responses
below.
From: [email protected][SMTP:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, August 12, 1996 10:03 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Who is FORTE for ? Who would benefit from FORTE ?
Who is forte really for ? Who would benefit from FORTE ?
The main benefit of Forte' is the abilitity to develop on a particular
platform and deploy to a multi-tier environment with platforms of any
type.Specifically I am wondering if it makes a lot of sense for
shops having all Microsoft Windows platform - both for client and
server to gain from FORTE.
IMHO, Forte' may not be the ideal solution in that kind of
environment. Although, it would work fine, there are plenty
of windows based tools and apps that would work fine and
probably faster and cleaner.I think that there are so many easy-to-use and economical tool
which can do RAD and give decent client-server performance on
Microsoft Windows platform costing much less than a FORTE solution.
I agree. Forte' is expensive and would be overkill if you just needed
a C++ app using ODBC going against a small local database.And with these solutions you can easily put your data server on a
Unix box and access it seamlessly on Windows platform without
any extra tools (almost all popular databases come with
this database connectivity built-in).
Correct, as long as you don't need to put business logic
on the same server as well. You add a lot of complexity
going to multi-tier but add the advantage of load balancing
and failover.What I think is unless you have run your application (or at least
a piece of your application) on operating systems like Unix or DEC
or unless if you have different platforms in your organization to
deploy your application on, there is not much you'll gain from FORTE.
I like Forte', but I have to agree with you. In a straight Windows 95/NT
environment with a Unix database server, I'd go with something like
MS Viz C++ and MS Access or Oracle. Forte' offers a lot for the multi-
platform environment but does have a fairly steep learning curve,
especially
when it comes to the system admin piece. And initially, your system will
need a lot of hand holding till all the pieces fit. The lack of CM,
object persistence,
use of their proprietary object broker etc are things that they'll
need to address
in upcoming releases to remain competitive.Also if your application is not for a large number of users (large,
I think is 200+ user), you gain little from your investment in FORTE.
I believe that in this case you do not need a middleware, you can
have logical 3-tier (or n-tier) and deploy your application on
physical 2-tier (client and server) with more than one logical tier
running on one of the physical tier (client or server). Middleware,
I believe, is not worth the cost, effort and time unless you
absolutely need it.
Agreed, but it depends on your needs and requirements. We
at Corning, are developing some apps in Forte' and some in
C++ and are looking at object broker middleware to allow all
apps to share common objects. Our determination as to which
language/environment to use is based on many factors, some of
which you've already mentioned. Our servers are Vax OVMS, Alpha VMS,
and Alpha NT. Our clients are PCs (NT 3.51, NT4.0, W95, W3.1) and
Alpha NT.
We had a couple of Macs but development and end user response was so
painfully
slow that they were replaced with far superior NT PCs (again, IMHO).
PS- You may want to check out Forte' Express before you make a
decision, especially
if you are building DB apps with table editors/browsers. It is an
excellent rapid development
tool, and teamed with Select Enterprise (for round trip Development
<--> Documentation)
it makes a great package._______________________________
Jeff Austin
Corning / CTE
[email protected]
http://fortefy.wilmington.net -
Who thinks AppleTV would benefit from having Safari on it? I do!!! It wouldn't have to be a full "computer style"/MacOS implementation; I think it could be done in a method similar to the Safari on the iPhone. I was thinking how nice it would be to add the capabilities of web browsing to AppleTV very similar to and right next to YouTube in the menu. Then I could do things like listen and watch my xmradio.com website on my AppleTV. I think the possibilities are endless! How would we suggest such a thing to Apple? do you feel there is an interest in such a feature? Do you feel Safari would benefit AppleTV?
Chenks... buying a mac mini to me is the "just throw another computer at it mindset"... to me that goes against the direction I'm going... simplification, of having one computer be a repository of all my media (FYI a mini would be a tad light for that task) , I feel the whole future of computing going in a "thinner" direction. What I like about AppleTV is the ability to have AV content stream and/or store at point where I can watch it on my HDTV and 5.1 Sound System. So to me it solves the problem of connection of my (current & already owned) MAC's "output" to another device (the value to me in it leverages an expensive TV set as a device to my MAC). So adding another computer only muddies those waters and was not my goal there. As such, I feel the AppleTV could be even better with a 'lite' implementation of Safari. What say you?
-
How do I know if I would benefit from an SSD?
I use my MacBook Pro (Mid 2010) for development. It hits the CPU hard, but there are also a lot of reads and writes of small files, and sometimes the computer is very sluggish even when Activity Monitor shows the CPU is not maxed out.
What's the maximum data throughput, in MB/sec, I should see in the Disk Activity section of Activity Monitor? It's peaking at a little above 3MB/sec, which seems very low. Would an SSD give me a noticeable speed boost?Have you installed 8GB of RAM? If not, you might do that first.
Regarding the benefits of SSDs, go to the OWC website and look at the bench tests that they have performed with SSDs vs conventional HHDs. They have quantified their results and that should give you a better indication of what to expect than some one saying that 'its way faster'.
Ciao. -
Anyone else feel they would benefit from a 'LIKE' button when texting ?
I find when iMessaging a group of people there is some messages i find the want to just LIKE it as in the way you would like a comment it post on Facebook ? I definitely think it should be considered in the next update !
We're all just users here so if you have a suggestion for Apple send them feedback. See http://www.apple.com/feedback/
-
Would my 400 AP`s benefit from a static address ?
hi all
just wondering if ap`s would benefit from a static address range
presumably they collect the same address after lease expiry
now i need to find 10 new addresses for new non wireless equipment n order for the server team to have a nice continous address range , if i reboot the ap`s and their existing 10 addresses are taken will they pick up new addresses in that range (given that there is still 10 spare)
many thanks
Megzthanks sabhasin,
i kinda guessed this was the case. if i static the ap`s then at least there fixed with permanent addresses.
is there any kind of risks accociated with ap`s on non statics i.e will a renewal create a blip or is it quicker than that.
how is the layer 3 lwapp working in this way.
great help so far btw ;)
Megz -
Accessing AS/400 data from Forte
Dear Forte Users,
How are you accessing data stored on your AS/400 from Forte running on a
Unix node?
Here at CIBA Vision we would like to see the AS/400's physical files
(which I believe are DB2 tables) from Forte on an HP-UX 10.20 node as a
database (i.e. be able to use a DBSession object) and be able to select,
insert, update, and delete from them . Is there a simple solution like
make a DB2 resource manager on the HP-UX node and tell it to connect to
the AS/400 (I wish it were that easy). I've only researched two ways
that it could be done so far and haven't actually proven that either one
of them works (or performs) yet:
1) Use Oracle's "Transparent Gateway" to make the AS/400 look like an
Oracle remote database
2) Use Intersolv's (now Merant's) ODBC to make the AS/400 look like an
ODBC data source
IBM's Client Access 400 comes with a DLL under Windows that uses this to
make the AS/400 look like an ODBC data source. From researching Client
Access I know the AS/400 has a TCP/IP listener running on port 8471 (the
AS/400 calles it port "as-database"). What is this listener -- IBM
makes this sound like an ODBC listener? Is this an ODBC listener and if
so can any ODBC client talk to this server? Unfotunately Client Access
is only available on Windows platforms and using NT as our application
server is out of the question. IBM referred me to StarQuest, a company
who makes Client Access for Unix. However, the salesman there was
unsure if they had replicated all of the PC Client Access (including
the ODBC shared library). However, they did say they were working on
making a Unix ODBC driver that talked to the AS/400 in RDMA (or
something like that -- the DB2 native language).
Any help or insight would be helpful. Thanks in advance.
-J.C.
J.C. Hamlin, Senior Consultant, Forte National Practice
Born Information Services, Inc., Wayzata, MN
Ph1: (612) 404-4000 Ph2: (612) 783-8270 Fax: (612) 404-4441
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
To unsubscribe, email '[email protected]' with
'unsubscribe forte-users' as the body of the message.
Searchable thread archive <URL:http://pinehurst.sageit.com/listarchive/>hi,
A linked button works the same as an edit text. Just cast the specific object of the cell in an edit text object
In C# code this gives the following
string val = ((SAPbouiCOM.EditText)mtrx.Columns.Item(colID).Cells.Item(row).Specific).Value;
Yannick -
How do I know if my MBP will benefit from heatsink paste reapplication?
Dear Mac Users
I know the theme of hot MacBook Pro's has been done to death, but I would like to add my two pennyworth with respect to the specific question: How do I know if my MBP will benefit from reapplication of the heatsink compound? I have trawled numerous very long threads here and not found a satisfactory answer. The reapplication of the heatsink paste is a bit of a schlep and not without some risk of breaking it, so it would be good to know if the benefit is worth the risk.
One common question is: "Are my MBP temperatures unusual?". A useful mac temperature database can be found at the following link:
http://www.intelmactemp.com/list
Consulting this list should set some parameter space for many users - there does seem to be considerable variability - suggesting highly variable quality of heat sink paste application by Apple. In my particular case I have an early 2011 MBP (i7, quad core, 2.2GHz). This certainly ran very hot. I even had a burn on my thigh from it, which took a while to heal. I know, they are notebooks, not laptops, but still . . . . To put very hot into perspective, the CPU was sitting at over 60C at idle, and whole case would be hot to the touch, such that resting your hands on it was uncomfortable. And yes, the computer was idling, there were no rogue processes chewing up cycles. At full load, the CPU would run at 90C and the whole thing would get very hot. I avoided running major projects or rendering jobs on it to preserve it from heat fatigue - the warranty is now up.
My first attempt at reducing the temperatures, was to clean it. The clue was in the USB/Firewire etc ports. All were very fluffy, which suggested that there was a lot of crud in the heatsink fins. Fixing this was simple; adopt anti-static precautions; remove the back panel; blow air into the exhaust vents at the base of the screen. Numerous large fluff bunnies popped out of the fans and elsewhere. Alternatively, you can unscrew the two fans and partially lift them out (without removing the power cables to the motherboard). Major fluff on the heatsink fins can then be tweezered out, prior to blowing it through, to ensure all debris is removed. I did this subsequently on my Core 2 Duo MBP. After defluffing the idle i7 CPU temperatures dropped from 60C to 43C, but perhaps of more importance was that the whole case was much cooler and the keyboard temperature was close to ambient - much nicer to use.
So that fixed the major heat problem. However, the question remained, would I see any further improvements by stripping the thing down and reapplying the heatsink paste? What I was looking for in this forum was a rule of thumb based on temperature measurements to help me make an informed decision on whether to strip the thing down. As my machine was out of warranty, I wasn't worried about voiding that. Also, where I am there is zero support (Africa), so Genius Bar or similar was not an option. But jiggering a 14month (very expensive) laptop was not something I wanted to do for thrills. The data in many of the posts did not provide any answers. In the end I made some measurements and decided to do the fix. The step by step instructions I followed were very clear and can be found for many Macs/models at:
http://www.ifixit.com/Device/Mac
This guide made life a lot less stressful, as pulling a connector the wrong way could trash the motherboard, and those connectors are so very tiny and fragile. It is very important to take it slow and follow each step to the letter (and not skip steps inadvertently). My before and after heatsink paste fix temperature data are shown below. The idle temps are improved, while the full load temps look like a marginal improvement. However, CPU temperature is not the only story. Certainly after the fix, the whole case is generally cooler, so the heat extraction system is working better. Also, the CPU before and after temps are quite similar at full load, but that assumes the CPU is running at the same power. I do not know enough about the i7 architecture to say if the before speed was being limited by heat, while in the after case the turbo-boost was able to run out to the maximum. Unfortunately, I didn't do any CPU performance tests. So, based on temperatures alone, it looks like a marginal improvement, but it is certainly making a difference to case temperatures.
Note all temperatures were measured at an ambient temperature of 20C on a flat, hard surface using Marcel Bresink's Temperature Monitor. Fan speed was measured using the Fan Control software - set to allow firmware control at idle.
Apple original heat sink paste - big dollop of grey crud and lots of extrusion at the sides.
Idle
CPU 43C
GPU 38C
Heat Sink 2 36C
Heat Sink 3 35C
Fan Speeds 2000rpm
Full Load (all cores maxed with a Boinc Distributed Computing Project (Rosetta - the project, not the Apple technology).
CPU 89C
GPU 57C
Heat Sink 2 52C
Heat Sink 3 49C
Fan Speeds 6200rpm
Arctic Silver heat sink paste
Idle
CPU 38C
GPU 34C
Heat Sink 2 33C
Heat Sink 3 32C
Fan Speeds 2000rpm
Full Load
CPU 86C
GPU 59C
Heat Sink 2 50C
Heat Sink 3 50C
Fan Speeds 6200rpm
Back to my original question: How do I know if my MBP will benefit from reapplication of the heatsink compound? I think temperatures alone will not give a good answer - mainly because the CPU probably has variable output - due to turbo boost. One thing I did notice is that the temperature response of the CPU when it gets switched to full load, does vary according to the quality of the heatsink paste. With the original Apple paste, when I switched the CPU to full load (from idle) the temperature of the CPU went up to its maximum almost instantaneously and stayed at that level ie the graph of temperature vs time was a step function. This suggests that the CPU may be controlling the temperature by throttling itself. Otherwise, as the heatsink warmed up, the CPU should also rise in temperature - mine stayed bang on 90C and fluctuated only by a degree either side. After application of heat sink paste, the CPU has a much larger effective thermal mass and consequently heats up much more slowly. Turning the CPU up to maximum from idle resulted in the temperature climbing to a maximum over about 3-4s. After peaking at around 92C it dropped back as the fans kicked in, to around 86C.
So perhaps one way of assessing the quality of your heatsink paste is to ramp the CPU to maximum from idle and look at the shape of the temperature profile. A step function suggests a lousy job and benefit may be had from reapplication. A more gently sloping profile, followed by a dip due to the fans kicking in, may suggest you are in good shape. Obviously, this presupposes that your Mac temperatures are not insanely hot to start with (i.e. high 90sC+). In which case, if defluffing doesn't do the job, then new heatsink paste is almost certainly required.
Regards, BBI'm sorry but this is too funny to pass up.
-
PHP email form - issue with who it's from
Hi,
I've got a referral page on my site where the user puts in their details and a friends details and the form fires off a email to the friend. The form is in HTML and posts it to a PHP file. The problem is I get in the email for who it's from:
from
"Scott Bradshaw"@server74.ukservers.net
I don't want the
@server74.ukservers.net
in their.
Is this an issue with PHP files and forms or is their a way round it? I know I could do a mailto: form but don't want to. What are my options?
Thanks, ScottI'm making the website for someone and they had the hosting set up already but thanks for telling me. I think this is right what I've done:
function detectSuspect($val, &$ok) {
if (preg_match('/Content-Type:|Cc:|Bcc:/i', $val)) {
$ok = false;
$YourName = Trim(stripslashes($_POST['YourName']));
$YourEmail = Trim(stripslashes($_POST['YourEmail']));
$RefName = Trim(stripslashes($_POST['RefName']));
$RefEmail = Trim(stripslashes($_POST['RefEmail']));
$EmailFrom = $YourEmail;
$Subject = $RefName;
$EmailTo = $RefEmail;
// validation
$validationOK=true;
detectSuspect($YourName, $validationOK);
detectSuspect($YourEmail, $validationOK);
detectSuspect($RefName, $validationOK);
detectSuspect($RefEmail, $validationOK);
if (!$validationOK) {
print "<meta http-equiv=\"refresh\" content=\"0;URL=error.html\">";
exit;
// prepare email body text
$Body = "Hi $RefName,
$YourName thought you would be interested in viewing this online video called A
tale of 2 customers (< 3 mins).
www.easybench.org/ataleof2customers3";
$Body2 = "";
$Body2 .= "User Name: ";
$Body2 .= $YourName;
$Body2 .= "\n";
$Body2 .= "User Email: ";
$Body2 .= $YourEmail;
$Body2 .= "\n";
$Body2 .= "Referral Name: ";
$Body2 .= $RefName;
$Body2 .= "\n";
$Body2 .= "Referral Email: ";
$Body2 .= $RefEmail;
$Body2 .= "\n";
// send email
$success = mail($EmailTo, $Subject, $Body, "From: $EmailFrom<$EmailFrom>");
mail("[email protected]", "Referral details", $Body2, "From: [email protected]");
// redirect to success page
if ($success){
print "<meta http-equiv=\"refresh\" content=\"0;URL=thankyou2.html\">";
else{
print "<meta http-equiv=\"refresh\" content=\"0;URL=error.html\">";
?>
I've also got a feedback form thing too, the script above wouldn't work for it I guess as it's protecting against different thing but what's the best way to protect the feedback form? I've heard of a honeypot thing where create hidden form field.
Thanks, Scott -
Who have knowledge from Femtocell technology at Sony (Xperia Z2 and Zperia Z)
Contact request for a person who have knowledge from Femtocell technology at Sony (Xperia Z2 and Zperia Z).
I have been unable to resolve mobile data connectivity issues occuring with femtocell. Me and the operator have been trying to find a resolution for 2 months now. The thing is that this problem occurs only with Sony mobilephones. So i would need to find a developer from you who have better knowledgemtnt from the technicalside of your phones.
Solved!
Go to Solution.Contact your local Xperia Care regarding this issue.
http://support.sonymobile.com/global-en/contactUs/
"I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." Kurt Cobain (1967-1994) -
Calling a PL/SQL from Forte code
Hi, We are using the Sun UDS 5.1.3
I need to call directly from the code a PL/SQL stored procedure. It is true that this would defeat the Forte layer purpose but I have a very specific case. Is there an easy way to do so?I don't remember how after all these years, but I remember that I made a native Informix call in a special way. So it seems logical that you should be able to do the same for Oracle...
Scott -
To: [email protected]
cc:
Subject: Calling COBOL from Forte
We have a large complex COBOL program that we've purchased that we
currently run on our mainframe system. We are in the process of re-writing
our system into FORTE but we want to keep this COBOL program. This COBOL
program would need to be called from FORTE and it in turn would need to
call FORTE methods. The interface between FORTE and COBOL would be done by
passing large data structures as parameters containing both Character and
Integer data fields. Can this be done since I'm not looking forward to
having to re-write this entire program in FORTE?
David Wilbur email: [email protected]
University of Windsor phone: 519-253-4232 ext. 2779
Windsor, Ontario Canada
-----------------------------------------------Another alternative is to use the ExternalConnection class (in the
Framework project).
This would entail developing a "COBOL Function Server" on the mainframe to
"serve" the COBOL functions. I don't know if you can use COBOL for that,
but you should be able to use C, or PERL, or some other scripting language
that you can code a simple socket listener with on the mainframe.
This server would listen for requests to execute a COBOL function at a
designated port, call the COBOL function, and return its results via the
socket. On the Forte side you would use ExternalConnection to connect to,
send requests, and receive responses from the COBOL server. You can also
have a Forte server listen in on another port for requests from the COBOL
program and "serve" it Forte functions.
You would, in essence, be developing a COBOL/Forte gateway.
You would need to think about a simple application protocol to make the
requests/responses work. Something based on paramter=value pairs should
work well, is simple to code for, and simple to synchronize. For example :
request=get_employee_data
employee_no = 12345
<end_of_request>
request=produce_payroll_report
report_no=1705
format_no=1001
output_to=xyz
<end_of_request>
ExternalConnection class is a great way to create general Forte interfaces
to external systems. It does require some setting up, but is is worth the
effort.
Hope this helps.
-Nabil
At 03:21 PM 2/6/97 PST, Digital/Forte 06-Feb-1997 1512 wrote:
The only way I am aware of calling COBOL programs from Forte is through
C-wrappering since Forte does not provide a direct interface to COBOL.
This has been done on various platforms but with complex data structures
this can be turn out to be messy.
There are a lot of other middleware supported by Forte like
ObjectBroker&DCE but COBOL is not supported directly by these productseither.
>
I am not aware of what kind of processing your COBOL and Forte apps
do (interactive/batch) or what databases (if any) are involved,but it may be
easier for both to interact with a common database if it is feasible.
Does anyone else have better ideas?
- Arvind
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Arvind Kumar Krishnaswamy
Digital/Forte Software Products Group
Digital Equipment Corporation ______________________
1800,Harrison Street,Suite 1700, | | | | | | | |
Oakland.CA 94612 USA |d |i |g |i |t |a |l |
| | | | | | | |
Tel : 510-251-6537 ----------------------
Fax : 510-251-6531
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
==================================================
Nabil Hijazi Optimum Solutions, Inc.
[email protected] 11654 Plaza America Drive
Phone: (703) 435-3530 #501
Fax: (703) 435-9212 Reston, Va 20190
-------------------------------------------------- -
Can it be possible to disable outlook anywhere for some few users who are working from home ?
One of my customer wants to disable outlook anywhere for some of the users who are working from home.They have exchange server 2013 in their premises and also have outlook 2010/2013 on their clients machine.Please advice?
Hi,
In Exchange 2013, all Outlook connectivity (Internal and External) are using Outlook Anywhere anyways. It is not recommended to use the following command to disable Outlook Anywhere for a specific user:
Set-CASMailbox UserA -MAPIBlockOutlookRpcHttp $True
If you disable it, the UserA would not be able to access the mailbox from both Internal Outlook client (Office) and external Outlook client (Home).
For your requirement about disable Outlook anywhere for some few users instead of all external users, there seems to be no method to achieve it directly in Exchange server. Sorry for any inconvenience.
Regards,
Winnie Liang
TechNet Community Support -
I'm currently in Auckland NZ for a year. I'm originally from Winnipeg, MB Canada. I spilt liquid on my iphone and need to purchase a new one. I'm still under warranty and would like to know who to contact from Auckland NZ to buy another iphone from Canada and have it shipped to me. So far the numbers that I've called haven't worked. Help!
Apple will not ship out of the country at all.
The warranty is irrelevant. As with any warranty on any product, damage is not covered.
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