10.4.7 with aggregate devices

Is anyone using 10.4.7 with an aggregate device? I saw someone on Big Blue Lounge mention a problem with that.
I'm using a Motu 828 mkII with an Alesis AI3 and a Motu 828 mkI as an aggregate device, so this has to work for me.
Thanks
Dual 2.7g G5 3gig RAM Mac OS X (10.4.6)

I've been having syncing problems for a while with my firepods, but I don't think its specific to 10.4.7. Audio glitches, artifacts when recording more than 8 channels while both pods are in use. I've done everything Presonus recommended, and I still can't fix the problem. It happens whether i record to internal or external on both my powerbook (internal firewire or high quality buscard) and intel mini. It doesn't happen every time, but considering a large part of my business is going to be live recordings, its just not cutting it.
The good news is that they made a firmware update that allows you to use the Pods as hardware pre-amps, so I can get an Ensemble or RME and upgrade...

Similar Messages

Static with Aggregate Device

Hello,
I'm using multiple USB mics through an aggregate device. This has worked fine for me with Garageband 3 and Tiger. But this week I upgraded to Snow Leopard. Now, after varying amounts of time, I get static and a bit of a delay while recording. I installed Garageband '11, but the issue is still there.
So far, I've only noticed it while using the aggregate device in Garageband. If I change the mic input and then go back to the aggregate device, the problem goes away (at least for awhile).
Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks.

None of the questions sound stupid at all...
In your case there can be a couple of common problems that are tied together. Sync and latency.
I don't have GB11. I believe however, there are no longer buffer setting preferences for audio devices in GB11. ???
Previous versions allowed for minimum delay to deal with latency. So one could change the buffer settings. Which would be something I would have recommended trying if that is possible.
The Snowball is class-compliant. (driverless). But they are USB2.0 which should help over the Rock Band mics if they are USB1.
And while Apple's Aggregate Devices seem to work ok with devices not designed for sync.
The Snowball's may not work as expected. They may work fine...I can't say. If you read Blue's FAQ on the Snowball they more or less say the same thing.
My experience with aggregate devices is using three interfaces connected digitally via AES/EBU with console software to configure master/slave. No experience with USB mics or devices without word clock sync.
What I can say is, if you want to use 3 mic's simultaneously. There are certainly viable options available to you that may serve you better.
And as an aside there are USB mixers that are multichannel as well as two-channel.
And it is possible that an audio interface or a USB mixer for that matter may also suffer from latency issues. All interfaces have latency. Just like in the real world when your ear is far enough away from the source of a sound.
But most have good enough drivers or Core Audio implementation as to be difficult to discern. Still something to consider when looking for an interface.
But you won't have sync issues running 3 mic's into an interface.

Combine Motu 24I/O and internal spdif with "aggregate device"

Hi,
i'm using locic pro 7 with a motu 24 i/o for recording e.g. vocals. To improve the quality i plan to buy "benchmark adc-1 converter, but there are no digital inputs on my motu. Can i combine the 24i/o with the internal spdif input? The motu runs at 64 samples without troubles. if i combine both via "aggregate device",what about latencies? is the latency of the motu as high as the internal spdif? Should i better buy a digital card (rme)? Does anyone know a good digital card (pcin and not too expensive)? Thanx a lot,
Oliver

Send Apple feedback. They won't answer, but at least will know there is a problem. If enough people send feedback, it may get the problem solved sooner.
Feedback
Or you can use your Apple ID to register with this site and go the Apple BugReporter. Supposedly you will get an answer if you submit feedback.
Feedback via Apple Developer

Audio between Logic and Max with Aggregate Device Tutorial

Here is a link to my tutorial that shows how to create an Aggregate device and use it to send audio from Max to Logic and vice versa.
click the "logic help files" link at the top of this page:
http://home.lagrange.edu/mturner/
Hope this is helpful,
Mitch
http://home.lagrange.edu/mturner

Edgar rothermich let me know that he has written a great deal on the Aggregate Device:
quote======
For more in-depth explanation of the Aggregate Device settings and Audio Devices in general download my Personal Manual "Logic 7.2 Audio Devices"
The free pdf file is available on my website at:
http://homepage.mac.com/edgarrothermich/Manuals.html
======
Check our his Personal Manual for greater detail.
Mitch

For Patrick Sasso/Rohan -- Aggregate Device Question

Patrick and Rohan,
I noticed that the thread which Patrick started was "archived" and replies are not allowed. ( http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=237354&tstart=0 )
Wondering what that's all about... But anyway, here's my question:
I'm also running a PCI-424 and some MOTU interfaces also (old 2408 and some 1224's), but I'm not using the aggregate devices settings. So I'm wondering if I'm not aware of some useful aspect of the whole aggregate device thing... What are you using the aggregate device setup for? Is there an advantage to using it with a straight-forward audio recording/playback situation using the existing capabilities of the PCI-424 + interfaces?

AFAIK this has always been possible (in panther....)
as the 424 is configured, but appears as 1 device to
the OS. Make sense or did I misread?
I think you could do it off the MOTU PCI without
aggregation, right? I am not a big MOTU guy but...
Well, let's put it this way: when I got my G5 one of the first things I did was pop in the 424 card, hook up the interfaces, run the MOTU config thingee and it recognized all 3 interfaces without a hitch. Great!
Then I installed Logic and without glitches it saw all of the MOTU ins and outs. Great!
In my 40 output setup, Logic simply numbers the outputs consecutively, in the order that the interfaces are plugged into the 424 card. Within Logic there is no designation of outputs belonging to any particular device, i.e., none of the audio output labels are designated "MOTU 2408" or "MOTU 1224 #1" or "MOTU 1224 #2". They're just outputs 1 - 40. So in a sense, the way Logic "expresses" the MOTU outputs, it's as though they're "aggregated" -- a single device.
It was only many weeks after I got my system up and running that I decided to explore the menus in the Audio MIDI Setup, and ran across this strange thing called "aggregate devices". There was zero, zero, zero documentation about it in the G5 manual nor in on-board Help, and a search of Apple's website turned up virtually no information. So basically, all this time I've been running with my MOTU interfaces, never configured anything having to do with aggregate devices, and I've yet to experience any kind of audio glitch with Logic. Great!
So in conclusion, I'd say that if an audio system consists exclusively of MOTU devices, setting up aggregate devices isn't necessary. Same situation with the MIDI side of AMS, really... with Logic you don't need to configure AMS MIDI to do anything. In fact, as you may have read in some of my prior posts, setting up MIDI in AMS actually creates more work than it's worth.
Therefore, my AMS is devoid of any user settings, except for the (seemingly) mandatory AMS-audio settings for "internal clock".

Logic Mics, Aggregate Devices and The Input Issue

There is a lot of discussion about Logic's inability to accept simple microphone inputs, and I ran into this for two frustrating DAYS of trying all the things in the Logic Express 8 Docs to fix it—to no avail.
But now it is solved, so I'm trying to create a DEFINITIVE list of steps and principles here so others may quickly blast past this issue.
The equipment I have seems to be emblematic to the problem. The Blue Snowball is one of those USB mics that simply doesn't automatically show up in Logic's Preferences > Devices > Core Audio >Device list. The fix for this is never mentioned in the Logic manual or Getting Started docs that I can find. There is a passing reference on page 100 that is virtually zero help, and does not bother to mention how this Prime Gotcha can bring you to your knees.
Principle #1: Logic uses the Preferences > Devices > Core Audio >Device (list) process to identify which microphone you can record with. The list has to have in it an entry that makes sense for both the incoming audio and the playback path that Logic uses to feed earphones or an external monitor.
Normal items on that list look like this:
Built-in Output/Line Input
Built-in Output/Digital Input
Built-in Line Output/Input
Built-in Line Output/Digital Input
Built-in Digital Output/Line Input
Built-in Digital Output/Input
The Built-in Output is the computer’s inner speaker or headphones. The Built-in Line Output is the computers stereo jack for feeding to an amplifier. The Built-in Digital Output is the fiber optic feed that can also feed an amp with up to six parallel audio channels (okay, 5.1 channels).
Nothing on that list will show a fully functional USB microphone that is being viewed on the computer’s System Prefs > Sound > Input page, even though the metering dots there show that the computer sees a live, active microphone.
Selecting the Mic in the Sound prefs page does nothing to pass it on to the Logic > Preferences > Devices > Core Audio >Device list of selectable items. This is frustrating, since GarageBand sees the live mic without any problem, but GB is a simpler program that has fewer options while Logic has many other potentials, so a one-size-fits-all solution may not be its best default setting.
To get the mic into Logic, you have to go into the Audio MIDI Setup utility program where a peculiar option appears that is called “Aggregate Device”.
This keyword is not found in the Mac docs, and understanding it seems to be a big secret. Even the Audio MIDI Setup help page will show you how to find it, but not how it works or how to use it for Logic. Ahem.
You open Audio MIDI Setup and under its header bar Audio is only one item, sure enough, Open Aggregate Device Editor. That opens a window that has two sections, an upper window with Aggregate Devices / In / Out across its top, and a lower window that shows all the options that the computer is aware of. The lower window is called “Structure:” and columns show Clock / Use / Audio Device / In / Out / Resample.
A default item “Aggregate Device” shows in the top panel, and you can add others and double click on one to change its name. You can make many variations here.
By default these will be present:
Built-in Line Input
Built-in Digital Input
Built-in Output
Built-in Line Output
Built in Digital Output
At the bottom of this list any other audio input devices that are plugged into the computer should show up. If they can be seen in the System Prefs > Sound > Input page, they’ll be here, too.
When I plug my Blue Snowball USB mic into the computer, it shows up here as Blue Snowball.
You create an Aggregate Device by clicking on your sound source, in my case, the Blue Snowball, then adding one or more other options.
When you click the Use check box for any entry, it pops to the top of the list.
Principle #2: An Aggregate Device is used by Logic to “see” both an audio input and an audio output path at the same time. The Device you’re creating at this point must include an input Audio Device AND at least one Output item to be fully functional for Logic. A Help page in Audio MIDI Devices called “Combining multiple audio devices” explains this in bare bones, but you can’t see that help page unless the Audio MIDI Devices utility is open.
In my case, I’ve checked the Blue Snowball and Built-In Line Output, so I can use that combo in Logic to define where the mic is coming from and where the Logic audio output should go to my line-input amp and speakers.
In the Audio MIDI Setup utility, simply selecting the Blue Snowball as the “Default Input:” device and/or the “Properties For:” options shows that the Audio Output area of the page has this cryptic message: “Output is not supported.”
At this point, you’re almost ready to go, and you can close the Audio MIDI Setup utility. But there is at least one more “gotcha” to conquer.
Principle #3: Logic ONLY looks for its list of usable Core Audio Devices when it starts up. If you have it open right now, all the choices made for Aggregate Device will not show up as selectable. Save any work in Logic, shut it down, then boot it up again.
Now you can use Logic's Preferences > Devices > Core Audio >Device list to see your Aggregate Device. I’ve named mine “Snowy Line Out” to trigger my recognition of what it contains. Another one is called “Snowball + Line + Digital” and it has both line and digital outputs aggregated to the Snowball mic input.
You can make one in the Aggregate Device Editor that combines a microphone plus earphones (Built-in Output) plus Line and/or Digital Outs, too. You'll have to switch among them in Logic as you work, but each will carry the live mic direct to recording.
I hope this gets you through the frustration of not knowing what to do when confronted with the lack of clear docs and complete steps to get a USB mic or other seemingly opaque input issue. Feel free to add to this so others in my former state of bewilderment can gain understandings.
If Steve Jobs were to encounter the level of opacity, ambiguousness and frustration that setting up a simple USB microphone can create in Logic, you can bet that the several programs and their intimate interdependency would be either automated or fully explained in the documentations that followed his fiery analysis of the issue.

I don't know of another way to get the Blue Snowball USB mic to show up in Logic. If you can do it without having to go through the Aggregate Device route, feel free to post here how to get that to happen.
I didn't have a different mic available when I started trying to do what seemed to be the simplest of things -- record and play back an audio track -- and nothing else seemed to work.
There are a lot of Aggregate Device threads around here, many associated with Blue Snowball, Blue Snowflake and other things, but none of them laid out the principles of how Aggregate Device Setup needs to work or what to do to force it into compliance.
As I said, the clues in the Logic docs and in-mac docs are minimalist, at best, none of them bringing instant head slaps of success readily.

Aggregate device: BIG PROBLEM with mbox(digidesign)

i must admit, meanwhile i am truly desperate...
MAYBE ONE OF YOU HAS THE SAME EXPERIENCE AND HENCE A SOLUTION TO IT... problem is as follows:
i have a mbox1 connected via usb to my ibook g4 1.33ghz (ppc) and want to make an aggegate device in the osx 10.4.9 system preferences (audio-midi-setup) together with the built-in audio in order to be able to use 4 audio outs simultaneously within NI traktor dj studio 3 so that i'd have 2 channels for master out and the other ones for monitor.
but: when trying to make the aggregate device, mac os only shows up the built-in audio. the digidesign mbox seems to be vanished, although i can use and choose it seperately as my main out. but not in the latter mentioned dialogue. so what the heck is wrong? btw, i have coreaudio 7.3 installed properly (the one that fits for ppc-macs)...
- is it maybe because of clocking issues?
- built-in is on 16bit only, the mbox is on 32bit... what about this?
- is the mbox1 (folks, i just purchased it 5 years ago) not working with newer systems anymore in full effect?
- is it the coreaudio-driver itself (although it is visible/selectable in audio preferences)?
PLEASE HELP! I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO NOW ANYMORE...
sincerely yours
00piano

any suggestions out there?
plz help!

Trouble with audio midi set up new aggregate device

hello im alex, im using apogee duet with logic and live, sorry for the mistakes , i am italian.
a guy from ableton suggest me to create a new aggregate device made by apogee out and built in out put together in order to have a pre in the headphones
THE PROBLEM : after create a new aggregate device , when i check the boxes to select inputs and outputs, the boxes stay empty, unchecked.
(sometime i see flash of the window opening but after a millisecond desapperead)
somebody can tell me something good to resolve ? thank u
alex

I'm having this same problem. Makes no difference which devices are selected, it isn't possible to create a new aggregate device with any devices at all, internal or external. 10.5.8 Audio MIDI setup 2.2.2
Message was edited by: audiobiscuit

Problems with aggregate sound device

Hi,
when making an aggregate sound device in the Audio Setup, I only get one source to pass it's sound through the device. I've tried different sources: USB-microphone, usb-soundcard, internal microphone, soundflower and so on. They all work fine, but only one at a time. If I add multiple devices only the first one added will work.
The odd thing is that the level indicator, e.g. in Quicktime, shows sound from both sources, while only the first one added will be recorded.
And yes, I've set the sampling rates of all devices to the same value (44100,0 Hz).
Please help!

And to add to the saga one last time, I can't reproduce that success reported in the last message.
Does anyone know where on the filesystem these settings are actually stored? /Library/Preferences/com.apple.audio.DeviceSettings.plist seems like a likely candidate, but it doesn't say anything about my aggregate device that Audio MIDI Setup clearly shows... And /Library/Preferences/com.apple.audio.AudioMIDISetup.plist is just a very short file containing a serialized ObjC object or three...
Back to square 1.5,
-ECL

I am trying to use 2 MOTU 896's as an aggregate device in Logic Pro 8

I am using Logic Pro 8 on a Macbook Pro OS 10.6.8. I am trying to use 2 MOTU 896's as an aggregate device to have total of 16 inputs. I am daisy chaining the 896's via firewire. I can select channels 1-16 as inputs in Logic. I am getting signal input in channels 1-8 in Logic. However, I am getting no signal input in channels 9-16. I've also tried using ADAT light pipe as output from the 2nd device to the 1st one and that didn't work either. I have created the aggregate device under audio-midi setups and I've set the 1st 896's clock source to internal and the 2nd 896's clock source as the 1st 896. I've also tried both 896's clock source as internal. Has anyone had any success in using 2 896's as an aggregate device in Logic Pro 8? I need to use this setup to record a large band. I would greatly appreciate any tips that anyone has. Thanks.

David,
Learning is not a bad thing, I'm just saying what you thought MIDI did is in error, you're not the first.
Here's an article explaining what MIDI is and how it works, it probably seems less than you thought it capable of but the fact is, since it's standardization in 1983 it completely revolutionized electronic music. By the Way, the designers of the Prophet 8 (Dave Smith & Sequential Circuits) had a lot of input into the MIDI protocol, in fact, if you had to say one company/person came up with the basics of MIDI it was Sequential Circuits. They also came up with the first polyphonic, fully programmable analog synth. I had a very basic MIDI studio at the end of 1984.
http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/midi1.htm

How to use an Aggregate device for Garageband (iLife '11)

Here is what I have,
Komplete Audio 6 interface (USB)
M-Audio Mobile Pre interface (USB)
2010 Macbook (white) running OS X 10.6.8
Garageband from iLife '11
I found out (supposedly) how to use both of the interfaces together by creating an Aggregate device.
I have gone through all the setup steps to create an aggregate device and put both interfaces on the Aggregate list to be used.
HERE IS WHAT I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT!
When I open Garageband and designate the Aggregate device as my sources of hearing and recording (Input and Output), the M-Audio doesn't even register sound. When I hook up the M-audio interface by itself, it works. Same with the Komplete interface. They work perfectly individually. But together, Garageband only recognizes channels 1 & 2 coming from the the Komplete interface.
1) How do I make it so both show up as recording to Garageband?
2) How can I hear them in my headphones (monitors)?
Thank you!

Maybe an alternative would be to put this logic into the select.
select u.object_name,
       u.object_type,
       count(case when u.object_type = 'TABLE' then 1 end) over () count_tables,
       count(case when u.object_type = 'VIEW' then 1 end) over () count_views
from user_objects u;This would count the number of tables and views in the data dictionary. And it is returned as a column value.

Audio MIDI setup not allowing aggregate device

I recently upgraded to a mac pro, and transferred everything from my old mac via firewire..
On my previous computer, using my aggregate device (Roland Fantom + Built-in output + built-in input) was no problem. I would simply choose in Logic my aggregate device under the core Audio preferences, and I could play logic software instruments with the roland keys, record audio through the roland, and play it back through the built-in line output no problem..
Now, on my mac pro, I can't do this because the aggregate device I created on my previous computer is not showing up under the devices pull-down menu in the core audio preferences in logic, and I cannot create a new aggregate device on this computer, as a matter of fact I cannot even seem to delete the old one... when i click the plus or minus (+/-), the blue shade highlighting the selected audio device just goes straight to the device at the top of the list (which happens to be built-in mic). it does not even allow me to deselect or select any checkboxes within the existing "9/25 aggregate".. when I try it just makes the devices listed in that window wiggle...
I have attached a screen shot of the Audio Midi setup screen (where one should be able to create aggregate devices)
Please let me know if you know what could be causing this..

Ojan36 wrote:
Could uninstalling and reinstalling Logic completely possibly fix it? I guess that would be unlikely because the audio MIDI Setup window is OS X, unrelated to Logic..
Correct.
when i click the plus or minus (+/-), the blue shade highlighting the selected audio device just goes straight to the device at the top of the list
This is one of the reasons why I am still suspecting some kind of permissions problem, even though you said this user has Admin privileges. I suspect a permissions problem because the symptom you described ("the blue shade highlighting the selected audio device just goes straight to the device at the top of the list") is exactly what happens if you do not have Admin privileges and you press the + button.
I think this issue has to do with the fact that there was not a clean install of snow leopard
I agree. My theory is that something about the way you moved items to this machine led to a permissions problem, and this permissions problem is causing AMS (Audi MIDI Setup) to behave the way you see.
I recently upgraded to a mac pro, and transferred everything from my old mac via firewire..
I know you connected via FireWire, but how did you control what was being transferred? Did you use Migration Assistant, or some other method?
In my comment here, I advised 55plus to check something. What happens when you check the thing I advised him to check?
You have not mentioned Disk Utility. I would use it to Repair Permissions. Then launch AMS. Does the + button work now?
Next I would try this: create a new OS X user account, with administrator privileges, and log in as that user. Then launch AMS. Does the + button work now?
55plus, I intend to respond to you too, but this is all I have time for right now.

Latency and Aggregate Devices

Hello. I'm using an aggregate device for the first time. I have a Line6 Toneport GX and a Presonus Firebox; I combined them into an aggregate device in Audio MIDI Setup and can access each interface in Express. Pretty cool.
However, latency seems to be an issue. For example, there is noticible latency when playing through the Toneport - to the point where I get thrown off while trying to play live. I disassembled a number of components and tried just the Toneport by itself and found the latency to be a non-issue.
Do aggregate devices introduce the latency of each interface? Does the fact that they're on different busses (one USB 1.1, the other FW400) contribute to my problem?
Is latency something that using a faster connection (say, the USB 2.0 on my laptop from work) would help correct? Finally, would the faster processor from my work machine solve this issue as well?
Thanks, all.
James DiStefano

USB 1.1 is slow. Many devices just wont work on it.
If you use just one device or the other do you get latency then?
It maybe that there is a bottleneck of data from the firewire port waiting for data from the USB going into the aggregate device. To be honest I don't know how the aggregate device works, but you definitely have 2 very different data transfer speeds into one device.
If the USB device, whichever it is, is USB 2 compatible, you can get a USB 2 pci card for about £15 UK, perhaps 20-30$ US with 4 or 5 USB 2 connections.
You are using basically the same setup as my previous machine (G4 1.25GHz dual). Installing the USB 2 card opened up a whole new world for that machine.

Aggregate Devices - any tips appreciated

Can anyone give me some pointers to info on handling aggregate audio devices with L8 + 10.5.1? Keyword and topic searches across the forums don't return anything useful.
This is the setup:
2x MOTU Traveler 22-in/22-out interfaces (counting ADAT, SPDIF + AES/EBU), each running identically w.r. to data rate (48kHz), clocking (normally internal), and FW connects (each to its own PCIe card+bus) into the MacPro.
AudioMIDI Setup is OK w.r. to making the pair into an Aggregate Device, which "sticks around" between sessions/peeks.
However Logic8 (and every other host) does not recognize the aggregate dev and sees only two separate units. This isn't the end of the world, and there are workarounds in the studio (e.g. going to analog audio + sub-mixes). But it puzzles me as to why I can't stay digital + aggregated, and instead have to be limited by the CoreAudio "rule" of "one device for input and/or output".
Previously, under 10.4.x (and for a while under 10.5.0) the setup worked without problems, even when clocked externally.
Any ideas on where to look / how to find out what's going on?
Any advice much appreciated.

Found the answer ... make the aggregate device with root privileges before using.

Can't create aggregate device?

Can anyone help me here, I know exactly how to create an aggregate device but when I go to hit the check boxes for various ins/outs it flashes like it worked for a second then appears back where it was on the list, unchecked. I have no idea what the problem is, but it won't let checks appear, it just appears checked and goes tot he top of the list for about a nanosecond and then appears again at the bottom unchecked, hence i cannot create aggregate audio devices.
EDIT: also, i've tried restarting, etc numerous times to no avail.
Message was edited by: samonguitar

As a longtime user of Aggregate Devices, I can assure you that this issue is in fact real, and VERY new. What has happened since two weeks ago since I last used my setup?!?
Basically everything looks normal until you try to check the box to add the device to the list. You can click the plus sign, but when you try to check the boxes the check mark flashes in the box, and the "selected" item moves to the top for an instantbut then returns, unchecked to its original location in the list.
The forums and the genius bar have been no help (because I know more about this software than the staff) and I have tried varying the USB/firewire ports, only using certain devices, trying different devices... essentially everything I can think of save a system restore to earlier last month, which I do not have time to deal with right now.
This is a nightmare as I have a recording session tomorrow and have spent all day trying to figure out what is wrong... with no end in sight. Does anyone have a solution?
Apple, please address this issue ASAP!

10.4.7 with aggregate devices

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