10-Bit color calibration problem

I have the following setup:
Dual HP ZR30w Wide LCD Monitors, each connected via Display Port to each below card.
Dual ATI FirePro v7800 (FIreGL) display adapters
Latest FirePro drivers from the AMD website (file name: FirePro_8.85.7.2_Win7x64_125182.exe)
Win 7 Pro 64-bit
Spyder3Elite 4.0.2
When I enable 10-bit color in the ATI drivers, and use the Spyder 3 package to perform
a calibration the profile is absurd --- light yellows render as light green, off whites become
purple... If, in 10-bit I switch to an old profile generated when running 8-bit I get reasonable
but slightly off color. Running 8-bit with an 8-bit calibration works perfectly to my eye.
Colorvision claims there is no problem, that the above ATI/HP pipeline is really 8-bit. Here
is the quote from their tech support:
"the option you deactivated is not a 10bit communication between your graphic card and your monitor.
That's just a 10bit LUT/mode in your video card which will be reduced to 8bit output to your monitor.
Please understand we can't give you a fix for a 10bit pseudo wide color depth mode of your video card.
The output is 8bit and that's all. The only advantage is that you could tweak color with less reduction.
But this has nothing to do with the industrial standardized ICC profiling system."
Does what they say make any sense? My understanding of the HP monitors and ATI cards is that
it is a true 10-bit pipeline.
If I do have a true 10-bit pipeline, what can I do to run in that mode and have well calibrated monitors?
I contacted integrated color, as they have software that will work with my Spyder 3 sensor and they
said I would not see any benefit from 10-bit monitor color and their software does not support 10-bit
mode. Does that ring true?
Thanks in advance,
Andrew

It should also be noted here that banding is potentially a bigger problem with wide gamut, since the values are farther apart. So while 10 bit is perhaps not strictly needed, it has become more desirable.
I see clear banding on that test image, on my wide gamut/8 bit Eizo S2243.
If in-monitor calibration makes it a good match to Adobe RGB 1998, and in the context of an 8 bits/channel color pipeline, then no calibration or profile-based transform would be required when you edit in the Adobe RGB 1998 color space.
This is where I still don't agree (but we probably shouldn't go there again ) I concede that my previous position was a bit...ah, inflexible. Mainly that's because I've since realized that there are many variables that need to be brought under strict control before you can make any claims to accuracy.
So let's just say it's about peace of mind. There are many unknowns in the equation above, and it seems to me the best approach is to pin down as many as you can.
As I write this, I'm on my way to look at proofs for a book I've supplied 80% of the photographs for. I've done what I can, I have peace of mind, and still...

Similar Messages

Color calibration problems on mac pro

I have a bunch of quicktimes I captured via firewire from a 1200a deck. These quicktimes I converted to Quicktime PNG via compressor so they could be opened on a PC as well. When I open the exact same quicktime file on PC it appears much brighter than when I open it on my Mac. And I dont just mean it appears brighter to the eye, but when I hover my mouse cursor over pixels the values are much brighter (I tested this in aftereffects on both machines).
The PNG and DVCPROHD quicktimes give the exact same values on my mac (unsurprisingly), and when I view them in aftereffects or FCP they look quite dark (much darker than what I saw at the shoot). But when I view them in quicktime player they look brighter - just like how they look on PC (normally exposed). BUT when I do a screen grab using CMDCTRL+SHIFT4, and open the grab in photoshop, it looks much darker again! with the darker values!
Both PC and Mac monitors are calibrated with the eyeone Display 2 - but I dont think that is really the problem, because the actual pixel values I'm reading with aftereffects or photoshop are much darker on the mac! I have a feeling that the values the mac is giving are wrong, because everything looks really underexposed, the blacks are completely crushed etc... but I'm sure on the shoot there was much more detail in the blacks and everything was exposed properly.
Any ideas what is going on? it seems like some wierd color profile thing... but would that actually change the pixel info in the quicktime file?

Hi memosan-
I completely understand. My experience is with medical imaging, where each monitor is absolutely required to match the other. Please step back and look at the bigger picture.
You are making the leap of faith that the way each system interprets pixel values is based upon the identical math, which it cannot possibly be. Each system will do what I thinks it needs to do to display a certain pixel value based on your calibration to a desired result.
When you think of displaying the image, you must think about what happens after the data is read off of the storage device and assigned to the graphics system and prepared for display. Up until that very instant the data is identical. What happens next will determine where those white values start differentiating.
When you calibrate a monitor you essentially build a table within your system that the graphics card uses to calculate a specific value to display based on the capabilities of that particular system. Even with identical systems those numbers will be different system to system. Maximum white will equal one number, maximum black another and so on.
When you read a pixel value it is based upon the math that the system is doing in order to display the image that you have requested.
If any part of the system is different, the math that it must do to obtain a particular pixel value will be radically different than the next system. If the temperature gradients are not the same, or if the actual pixel depth of one monitor is 10 bits and another 12, or if they cannot display the same black value the results will all be the same in that pixel values will be different, sometimes very radically.
The only way to actually demonstrate this is for you to use the same NTSC or PAL monitor, matching bit depth cards in each system, calibrate each system to that monitor without adjusting the monitor, then display the same image from the same file and see what the values read. My experience would tell me that only then will you be able to get numbers that are close.
This has everything to do with the monitor displays and your calibration and your different systems.
Luck-
-DaddyPaycheck

I need help with a color calibration problem on my PhotoSmart D7360 please.

In a nutshell...The solution that HP gives for correcting a red tint when printing grey colors is to go to the toolbox and hit calibrate colors. I don't have a 'calibrate colors' option in my toolbox.
The problem I'm trying to fix. The PS D7360 has started printing greys with a red tint from my Photoshop CS5. It was working fine and then just started having this problem. I have installed the newest device drivers. Then I have uninstalled & reinstalled the printer and the newest drivers. I clicked on factory settings but it didn't do anything. I've tried both printer managed colors and photoshop managed colors. I'm wasting paper, time, money and getting a headache! I just don't know what else to do. I'm using Windows Vista(x64)

Thank you for asking. I have plenty of ink. I've printed several test pages before and after the image I'm trying to print and the solid colors are fine.

Color calibrator problem

Hello,
I have brand new T520 42424FG, i installed color by PANTONE software when i want to launch the program it says "error trying to connect to measurement device"
so what should i do ?
Thank you

Hi trd2020
PANTONE Software requires built-in colour calibrator, which is available in some W-series ThinkPad only.
Cheers
Peter
ThinkPad: W520 (4284-A99)
=============================================
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Color Calibration Issues with iPhoto 7.0.2 and H-P Photosmart 7360

I'm having color calibration problems with print output to my H-P Photosmart 7360
since iPhoto 7 and above. Is anyone else encountering this? I'm consistently getting
darker output on the printer compared to what's on the screen. Up until iPhoto 7, the
match was dead on, what you saw on the screen is what you got on the printer.
Any suggestions?

I'm having color calibration problems with print output to my H-P Photosmart 7360
since iPhoto 7 and above. Is anyone else encountering this? I'm consistently getting
darker output on the printer compared to what's on the screen. Up until iPhoto 7, the
match was dead on, what you saw on the screen is what you got on the printer.
Any suggestions?

Display Calibration Creates Color Profile Problems.

I haven't received any response out of the MBP Display forum and I thought you guys might have better insight anyway because you are dealing with color calibration more often. Here it is:
I used colorsync utility to calibrate my monitor, hoping it would at least get the colors more accurate than they are with the "Color LCD" profile. The Color LCD profile has a bad yellow tinge to it. I went through the process 4 times so I would be able to choose the best profile out of the 4. (Now I can't delete the extra profiles but I guess that is a different topic...) The color accuracy and the gray-tone is MUCH better BUT I have a slight (understatement) saturation problem.
My problem is after using Color Sync, ALL of my REDS are oversaturated and blown out. There is a problem with the blues and greens as well but it isn't as bad. Of course, they look fine in non color managed applications (ie FireFox) but everything else makes my photos look horrible. Even the RAW files straight out of the camera look blown out.
I had, at first edited these files on a PC so they always looked fine but now that I have switched to Mac I have noticed how oversaturated they are in all of its color managed applications. (Safari, preview, and even the desktop.) I thought perhaps that I had just pumped up the contrast and saturation too high on the PC and the color profile was now creating a problem because the color was set for an un-profiled file. BUT after viewing the unaltered .NEF's straight out of my camera, they too are oversaturated.
Now, I have some wallpapers I had downloaded from the web that look the same as before. It is just MY OWN photographs that are oversaturated. Obviously I have chosen the wrong color profile or something is wrong with my workflow. The wallpaper that looks the same doesn't have a profile assigned it when I view-info. It just labels the color space as RGB. All my photos that have problems, have a color profile assigned. I am using sRGB as recommended. There are a few still using Adobe RGB (which is what my camera defaults to) and they have the same oversaturation problem.
Aperture is set to export with an sRGB profile and CS2 uses sRGB as well.
Any advice? What monitor and color management profile's are you guys using?
I can't tell what is right anymore. What should I edit my photos to look good in? The only MONITOR profile that doesn't blow them out is Adobe/Apple RGB, Color LCD, and a few of the other default installed profiles.
I've got a bad case of color vertigo!

sorry uberfoto, did not get what MBP meant at first.
what Jan says about color calibration tool is right....and start again from the RAW.....
i am photographer in the advertisement, reportage, portraits and landscape.
my problem was to get the thinks printed as I saw them on the screen.
here what I have to say on that (part of another discussion):
".... Sorry, but no AppleTFT Display comes close to a hardware calibrated display. Maybe they are semi-professional. I do not say this to insult Apple, ore somebody else, but i say this to sway out the illusion of , " if I just spend more money on the calibration tool and software, I´ll have better prints". It´s just not possible, because the display cant show what is there. A Apple CRT Studio Display is far better in this. I you want to have a flat-screen TFT Display to bring good results, you have to choose one that is able to be hardware calibrated and has a higher lookup table (EIZO, LaCie, QuatoGrafics......)
I use use one professional EIZO CG21" and one semi-prof. EIZO FlexScanL985EX(21") and the diffrence is important between the two.
But i need only one to be Print Proof ready.
Before i was always afraid when i gave the picture file to my client, because of what my pictures look like once it is printed. Now the outcome is right or differs only very little from what I saw on the screen. my calibration tool is EYE ONE. "..
BUT your main problem is how it looks in the web.
my thoughts and suggestion on this:
1. most people see the web on PC Display. those use a gamma of 2.2
(apple = 1.8) so pictures appear more blue with more contrast. this setting is made to hide the low ability of the system and display to show colors as they are and give and give crispy impression. So you will have to consider this when you prepare the pictures for the web. therefor the standard calibration of your MBP is best for your needs. ( for printing the Display has to be set on 5.600 kelvin ,that would be to warm 4 the wwweb).
2.
a) In the beginning I use Aperture 1.5 (or Lightroom) to select and prepare the pictures as I like them.
b) then I export them in 8 bit/300 dpi in the size they will be used as PSD or TIFF.
c) I will then open them in Photoshop (color-settings=web /internet) make the cleaning and so on.( 4 the web I always increase the saturation because sRGB and JPG will throw away lots of colors).
d) AND NOW "save for the web ". This is definitely the best tool to prepare pictures for the web. on the right upper part of the window there is a flash-open menu where you may choose to see the colors like in windows or macintosh system.
and on the lower right of the application-window there is a roll-down menu where you may preview the results in different browsers of your choice.
It is here where you can produce amazing high Q pictures 4 the web under 100 kb.
Hope this may help.
good luck,
larry
G5 dual 2.3/4,5 gigRam/ATI 9600 128MB-PB G4 12" Mac OS X (10.4.2) EIZO CG 21"+EIZO L985ex 21"
G5 dual 2.3/4,5 gigRam/ATI 9600 128MB-PB G4 12" Mac OS X (10.4.2) EIZO CG 21"+EIZO L985ex 21"
G5 dual 2.3/4,5 gigRam/ATI 9600 128MB-PB G4 12" Mac OS X (10.4.2) EIZO CG 21"+EIZO L985ex 21"

W520 External Color Calibrator stopped working with updated Pantone v1.1 software

Can someone from Lenovo help me with this issue? Lenovo updated the color calibrator software in Aug 2012. They broke an external color calibrator working. L1/2 has been completely unhelpful. I also escalated to customer service with little result except that they say it is not Lenovo software and they do not have to support it! Unacceptable, the software isprovided by Lenovo. Lenovo doc also says an external color calibrator is supported. Lenovo needs to take responsibility for fixing this. Here are the email chains. I really want a refund or someone to ensure this package that Lenovo distributes is fixed!
Thanks for your help.
From: Christopher Lang [mailto:christopherlang1] Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 11:34 AM To: 'Kelli' Cc: doris Subject: RE: SF184142 Re: Fw: Error with latest update to Pantone Color Calibrator Software (v1.1) and Eye one external calibrator - case 184142 Importance: High Sensitivity: Private
You are distributing this software and it is defective. Who do I NEED TO SPEAK TO AT LENOVO TO RESOLVE THIS? I WANT A REFUND ASAP!!!
From: Christopher Lang [mailto:christopherlang1] Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 11:25 AM To: 'Kelli' Cc: doris Subject: RE: SF184142 Re: Fw: Error with latest update to Pantone Color Calibrator Software (v1.1) and Eye one external calibrator - case 184142 Importance: High Sensitivity: Private
Hi Kelli,
I do not want this case closed and disagree. This is Lenovo provided software and according to Lenovo an external calibrator is supported. I want someone to take responsibility for getting this fixed. Lenovo has provided this software and needs to work with the vendor to ensure it works. Who do I need to speak to in management? I do not appreciate the way support has just shuttled this around and nothing has gotten done.
Sincerely,
Christopher
Lenovo Doc:
3.0 System requirements ======================= Hardware requirements: - Must have an embedded or external color sensor - Can be integrated or used with a USB color sensor device. http://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/pc/pccbbs/mobiles/pantone_color_calibrator_v1.1.0.txt
From: Kelli Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 11:12 AM To: christopherlang1@ Subject: SF184142 Re: Fw: Error with latest update to Pantone Color Calibrator Software (v1.1) and Eye one external calibrator - case 184142 Sensitivity: Private
Mr Lang,
Please be advised that I have taken this case assigned to Doris. Lenovo is not able help you with this issue, We cannot provide support for a third party product. The calibrator you are using is supported by X-Rite; any issues with the device need to be addressed by them,
I am sorry for your frustration however Lenovo has exhausted all means to help with a non-hardware issue. At this time Lenovo is closing this case.
Kelli Customer Advocate Customer Complaint Resolutions Lenovo US 1009 Think Place, Bldg 2 Morrisville, NC 27560
Hi Doris, Got you VM. No, Engineering is not wanting to do their jobs. What they are saying to you makes NO sense. There is even mention of an external calibrator being supported in the Lenovo doc. MANY PEOPLE USE EXTERNAL DISPLAYS AS WELL. Here is the Lenovo doc: 3.0 System requirements ======================= Hardware requirements: - Must have an embedded or external color sensor - Can be integrated or used with a USB color sensor device. http://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/pc/pccbbs/mobiles/pantone_color_calibrator_v1.1.0.txt    This is really upsetting me!!!! Can we escalate to higher management? Thanks, Christopher
Hi Doris,
Got you VM. No, Engineering is not wanting to do their jobs. What they are saying to you makes NO sense. There is even mention of an external calibrator being supported in the Lenovo doc. MANY PEOPLE USE EXTERNAL DISPLAYS AS WELL. Here is the Lenovo doc:
3.0 System requirements
=======================
Hardware requirements:
- Must have an embedded or external color sensor
- Can be integrated or used with a USB color sensor device.
http://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/pc/pccbbs/mobiles/pantone_color_calibrator_v1.1.0.txt
This is really upsetting me!!!! Can we escalate to higher management?
Thanks,
Christopher
From: Christopher Lang Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 12:19 PM To: 'Doris' Subject: RE: FW: Error with latest update to Pantone Color Calibrator Software (v1.1) and Eye one external calibrator - case 184142 Importance: High
Hi Doris,
I have the internal calibrator I purchased with my W520 and also an external calibrator from x-rite. The device is an i1 Display 2. The external calibration is what fails with the updated calibrator software package.
Thanks,
Christopher
From: Doris Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 12:13 PM To: Christopher Lang Subject: Re: FW: Error with latest update to Pantone Color Calibrator Software (v1.1) and Eye one external calibrator - case 184142 Importance: High
Hi Christopher,
I'm still working wtth L2.
What exact model of color calibrator device do you have?
Sincerely,
Doris Customer Complaint Advocate Lenovo
www.lenovo.com/www.lenovo.com Print only when necessary
"Christopher   Lang" <christopherlang1@>
11/07/2012   04:22 PM
   Subject
   FW:     Error with latest update to Pantone Color Calibrator Software (v1.1) and     Eye one external calibrator - case 184142
Hi Doris, Thanks for your time, re: case 184142. Can we get this package fixed? Jeremy’s response below just makes no sense to me, same as that call center in Atlanta is so problematic. I work in IT and when I phone that call center I really wonder sometimes whether I am even speaking with another IT person on the other end of the line. These are Thinkpad, mines is an expensive one, and I am very upset that this is the level of support I get (especially after upgrading my warranty even!). Please see what you can do. I would also like a manager to speak to DeAndrea at the call center. I am sure the calls are recorded and he was completely out of line and not helpful. Just like now I wonder ‘why did Jeremy even contact me!’ what with the response below. Please phone me tomorrow as we discussed. Have a great day! Thanks, Christopher From: Christopher Lang [mailto:christopherlang1@] Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 9:38 AM To: 'Jeremy' Subject: RE: Error with latest update to Pantone Color Calibrator Software (v1.1) and Eye one external calibrator Hi Jeremy, I am really not sure how Doris will help me with this technical issue? I fel like I am getting the run around and I AM. Thanks, Christopher From: Jeremy Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 9:34 AM To: Christopher Lang Subject: RE: Error with latest update to Pantone Color Calibrator Software (v1.1) and Eye one external calibrator Chris, I never said to call level one. I literally said "please contact your Customer Service rep". Your customer service rep is the highest level you will get at Lenovo to be able to assist you. He/She is also the same person that got you in touch with me in the first place. I hope this helps. Thank you!
Jeremy Level 2 Support Lenovo Systems Experts Lenovo USA 1009 Think Place Building 2 - Lab 2P22
   "Christopher   Lang" <christopherlang1@>
11/07/2012   09:08 AM
   To
   Jeremy
   Subject
   RE:     Error with latest update to Pantone Color Calibrator Software (v1.1) and     Eye one external calibrator
Hello Jeremy, Uhhh.. My case was escalated to you now you are telling me to call level one again? WTH? You know…I just started on a contract with IBM. You know what they give us…Not ‘Thinkpads’ but Toshibas. You ought to think about that. I expect a phone call ASAP. I have also left a message with customer relations. Thank you, Christopher
From: Jeremy Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 7:46 AM To: Christopher Lang Subject: RE: Error with latest update to Pantone Color Calibrator Software (v1.1) and Eye one external calibrator Chris, This is not my department... please contact your Customer Service rep to get updates. Thank you!
Jeremy Level 2 Support Lenovo Systems Experts Lenovo USA
www.Lenovo.com/United   States Print only when necessary
"Christopher   Lang" <christopherlang1@>
11/06/2012   04:08 PM
   To
   Jeremy cc        Subject
   RE:     Error with latest update to Pantone Color Calibrator Software (v1.1) and     Eye one external calibrator
Hi Jeremy,
Any update on this package being fixed?
Thanks,
Christopher
From: Christopher Lang [mailto:christopherlang1@] Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 12:42 PM To: 'Jeremy' Subject: Error with latest update to Pantone Color Calibrator Software (v1.1) and Eye one external calibrator Importance: High
Started failing when Lenovo updated the package for the w530.
Token Ring
Posts: 473 Registered: 03-10-2009
0
Error with latest update to Pantone Color Calibrator Software (v1.1) and Eye one external calibrator 09-19-201211:39 AM - edited 09-20-201209:10 AM Hi. Can someone have a look at the Pantone 1.1 package. I am using an eye one display calibrator with the updated Pantone software and the calibration does not work. I get an error about an 8 bit image missing (have attached a screenshot). The calibration is not correct and Windows Photoviewer is pink. This was working OK with the v1.0 of the software (no longer on the w520 driver page). The error message is "There was an error loading the specified profile. Please make sure the image has an embedded profile and it is an 8-bit image." This was working fine before the update to v1.1. Thanks
Re: New Pantone Color Calibrator posted [ Edited ]
10-21-201202:43 AM - edited 10-21-201202:47 AM This is broken on the w520. The external calibration does not work properly. You get an error about an 8-bit image missing when calibrating. Does anyone have a link to the v1.0 version that DOES WORK? Thanks Why is the support in Atlanta so awful that people keep telling me I need to REIMAGE my machine to repair this IDIOT problem!!!!!
Re: New Pantone Color Calibrator posted [ Edited ] Options ·         Mark as New ·         Bookmark ·         Subscribe ·           ·         Subscribe to RSS Feed ·           ·         Highlight ·         Print ·         Email to a Friend ·           ·         Report Inappropriate Content 10-21-201205:23 AM - edited 10-21-201205:26 AM
christopherlang wrote: This is broken on the w520. The external calibration does not work properly. You get an error about an 8-bit image missing when calibrating. Does anyone have a link to the v1.0 version that DOES WORK? Thanks Why is the support in Atlanta so awful that people keep telling me I need to REIMAGE my machine to repair this IDIOT problem!!!!!
I've uploaded the 1.0 program.: http://www.mediafire.com/?62shz55gl757ahu
From: Jeremy Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 11:24 AM To: christopherlang1 Subject: contact info
here it is
Moderator note; full names and full or partial contact details of Lenovo employees / agents edited Forum Rules

I am getting the runaround!!!
Hi Doris,
I just left you a voice mail. One of the reasons I bought this laptop was for 3d photography. If I cannot use an external color calibrator and display then the laptop is not fit for purpose for the reasons I bought it. This software is ONLY available from Lenovo. According to Lenovo’s own doc, and the software’s doc, an external color calibrator is SUPPORTED. Lenovo needs to step to the plate and fix this. Not ME. If Lenovo needs to go to Pantone, or x-rite, then they Need to do that. Lenovo provided software that is not available to the public from x-rite or Pantone, and the software is to support Lenovo provided hardware (least so far as the internal calibrator), this software ALSO supports an external calibrator for use with an external display. The software supports both internal and external, and I would like to use my external display for 3d photography. This needs to be fixed please.
What are we going to do to resolve this? At his point of the runaround I’ve been getting I would like a complete refund.
Thanks,
Christopher
From: Christopher Lang [mailto:christopherlang1@]
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 2:35 PM
To: 'Kelli'
Cc: doris
Subject: RE: SF184142 LENOVO
PS I hope you are aware Kelli that the Pantone software is not available from Pantone to customers….
From: Christopher Lang [mailto:christopherlang1]
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 2:26 PM
To: 'Kelli'
Cc: doris
Subject: RE: SF184142 LENOVO
Importance: High
Hi Kelli,
As you know the ‘software’ purchase is by virtue of purchasing the laptop with the color calibrator. Are you saying you will refund my cost for the calibrator? I don’t think you quite get how much time I have spent with support with this laptop. I have had multiple issues with the it. The calibrator, failed BT adapter, Sudden Shutdown syndrome (where the machine would just shutoff on its own –well documented in the Lenovo forums and I have at least a dozen emails on this issue) as well as many issues with the Displayport connection and an external 3d display for which I spent months working with Nvidia to resolve. This laptop has wasted a huge amount of my time. The support has been atrocious.
I would like a refund for 1. The laptop 2. The external color calibrator I cannot use because the software from Lenovo does not work (this package is NOT available from x-rite as well –It is sold to Lenovo). I have a receipt for the color calibrator and would be happy to provide that.
Thank you,
Christopher
From: Kelli
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 2:09 PM
To: Christopher Lang
Subject: RE: SF184142 LENOVO
Mr Lang,
Your request for a refund on the laptop is declined. The machine has had not hardware issues and was purchased in February. We are willing refund the software only.
Kelli
Customer Advocate
Customer Complaint Resolutions
Moderator note; full names and full or partial contact details of Lenovo employees / agents edited Forum Rules

Color space problem/confusion

I posted the following message to another thread, but at the recommendation of a member I am starting a new thread here. For a couple of answers see the thread below.
http://forums.adobe.com/message/3298911#3298911
I will provide much more information hoping an Adobe support person will chime in. This is extremely odd.
System: HP, AMD, Windows 7 64-Bit, Nvidia 9100, all updates to Windows, latest Nvidia 9100 driver
Display: Samsung 226CW, Windows settings 32-bit color, correct resolution,
Calibration: Done with ColorMunki, D65 target, done after monitor has been on for more than 30 minutes
Personal: (I am adding this information with some hesitation, please excuse it if it sounds like I'm bragging; I am not). I have multiple posts on my blog, have made many presentations on color managed workflow and am very comfortable with the settings in Photoshop and Lightroom. Please take this only as a baseline information, I am not bragging. In fact, I am begging for information!
Problem:
Any, I mean ANY, original JPEG image in sRGB space coming out of the camera with no adjustments, any PSD file in sRGB space, any TIFF file in sRGB space look significantly paler in Lightroom and in Photoshop CS5 than they look in other Windows based image viewers like FastStone or XnView. This should not need these applications to be color space aware, but the situation is the same with or without their color managment turned on or off. I have done the following:
1. Totally uninstalled Lightroom 3 and reinstalled it
2. Recreated a brand new Lightroom catalog/library and reimported all the images, converting all the RAW files to DNG (just in case!)
3. Recalibrated the display
When I view a file, any file and I will use for the sake of simplicity a JPEG file in sRGB color space, in Lightroom it looks pale. Since the file is in sRGB color space, I have verified this, the rendering in Lightroom should be the same as rendering in anything else. But it is not. I took my monitor and connected it to this system with the same odd behavior of rendering in Lightroom being much paler than outside. It appears as if I am viewing an image in Adobe RGB in a windows viewer that is not color managed.
I further tried the following:
1. I copied various versions of one file, all in sRGB color space. One PSD and two JPEG files from the folders of the above system and copied them to my system, Intel, Windows 7 64-bit, display calibrated and profiled with ColorMunki to the same standards as the problem system above.
2. Imported them to Lightroom on my system
3. The rendering in Lightroom is identical to rendering outside Lightroom for all the files and all are same as the rendering in FastStone on the problem system. Outside rendering was done using FastStone as on the problem system.
My deduction is that something on the problem system outlined in the opening of the message is interfering with the Adobe rendering engine and I have no idea what it could be. I WILL GREATLY APPRECIATE if an Adobe engineer could chime in and steer me in the right direction. I am willing to try other things but I have run out of ideas despite the fact that I have reduced much of the problem to the lowest common denominator of sRGB and JPEG against a PSD in sRGB.
Waiting anxiously of your help.
Cemal

Also, I know enough to calibrate a monitor when it is connected to a new computer. That said, even without calibration the behavior should have changed to display all the images in question the same but perhaps with somewhat off colors. Am I right? I am not arguing the point, I am rhetorically raising the question. If the 226CW is wide gamut and 244T is not, when I connect 244T on the same computer the wide gamut issue should be eliminated, should it not? I am not talking at this point about the "correct" color, but the same color in or out of Lightroom.
Unfortunately when you connect another monitor to a computer and don't calibrate or manually change it, Windows will not change the monitor profile. Macs will autodetect and change the profile but this innovation has not reached windows yet. The behavior you observe is caused by managed apps using the monitor profile and unmanaged apps not. If the monitor profile is not changed, the behavior doesn't change.
BTW, for a "cheap" software to be color space aware it does not need a quantum leap in technology I believe. It simply needs to know how to read the ICC profile and the LUT, is that correct?
It's extremely simple to program color management into apps. Standard API libraries have been available in Windows for over a decade. The reason why this hasn't happened is related to the fact that Microsoft hasn't made IE color managed and the software makers do not want to confuse folks when images look different in their program vs IE. Considering that this still is the biggest issue people wrongly complain about in every color managed application (just check Photoshop fora) that is maybe not that strange.

W520 - Color Calibrator won't work.

Hello guys, I'm stuck. I want to calibrate the monitor through the Color Calibrator Tray that always complains that the monitor needs new profiling. When I start the application and I shut the laptop to run the first test it says "No connection possible". I do not find drivers or any other things. Could it be - that the hardware isn't installed although the Lenovo System Update installed the Calibrator Tools? I have Lenovo Model Type: 4282RD4
Can anyone help?
Solved!
Go to Solution.

Grüezi Benji:
I had a bit of a problem getting this colour calibrator to work when my new W520 arrived a few weeks ago.
I am by no means an expert on this subject, so, take what I say with a grain of salt.
It appears to me that the software that actually calibrates the colour does not come from Lenovo's website. I went to this website: X-Rite Pantone Calibrator and downloade a small application from there. I installed it, and now the calibrator works fine. Below is a picture showing the product I downloaded.
Michael
W520 (4270 CTO), which replaced a W500 (4062-27U), which replaced a T42P, which replaced an A21P...

W701 with Pantone Color Calibrator Program

Hi all,
I read, that for the ThinkPad W520, W530, W540 is a newer color-calibration-program "Pantone Color Calibrator".
The W701 isn't remarked as a compatible system, which I find a little bit strange.
At the official driver-download of the W701 isn't any color-caliobration program.
I has an old version of Huey-Pro, which is a very old version only for WIndows 7, but also runs under Windows 8.1 - sometimes with some problems.
Therefore my question:
Does anybody know, if the newer Pantone Color Calibrator also runs with the W701?
Thanks a lot,
Klaus Zaeper
Solved!
Go to Solution.

I tested it now:
The Pantone Color Calibrator program doesn't work with the Lenovo W701 Color-Sensor.
So you've to use the Huey Pro-Program (marked as compatibel on WIndows 7, but is also working under WIndows 8.1), downloadable from the official Lenovo-driver-site.

Can anyone suggest me a color calibrator please?

Hey everyone,
First of all, sorry for posting in this forums, couldn't pick any better.
Can anyone suggest me a good value/price balanced color calibrator? I was looking into Spyder 3 and X-Rite Eye-One Display 2. But also, i've noticed that Pantone and Eizo also offer approx the same devices - "Eye-One Display 2". And that put me into a doubt.
Can anyone please advice me something? Also I'm willing to have that device working on Windows too (specifically Vista 64 bits).
Thanks in advance.

I use the X-Rite Eye-One Display 2, and have had no problems with it. I had tried the Spyder 3, but it seemed like their tech support wasn't all that good when I had an installation issue. Also, the sensor cord seems thicker on the X-Rite, which might result in the cord lasting longer (a thicker cord appears to be a good thing, since the sensor hangs by the cord while the monitor is being calibrated).
Given that the cost of the 2 units I tried is roughly the same, the X-Rite appears to be a better choice.

PLEASE HELP - COLOR SHIFTING PROBLEM on output NTSC monitors

http://www.smmlv.com/testproject/
Above is a link to a layered photoshop file that has a USA map and over a dozen network overlays used in a section of our video. I animate each layer on sepeartely in the video and have noticed a major problem recently, the color of the art does not hold true to placement. I created the art originally in Illustrator and then converted the file to Photoshop at 640x480, 72dpi. This has always worked perfectly in the past to display and animated artwork in FCP.
Right now, in FCP I am using the NTSC DV 3:2 frame size, and the compressor of DV/DVCPRO - NTSC. I have a JVC Profressional DV deck that hooks up through firewire and sends S-Video to my monitors. This setup has always given me a great picture even though it is not completely upcompressed. Using these settings and this art, the color lines on this map in red, light blue, yellow and purple all have a "color shift" to the left about 5 pixels. It makes it appear that the line is where it is in the file, but the color overlaying the line is offset to the left 5 pixels and transperant to about 50%. This occurs only when viewed on some TV's and NTSC monitors and projectors. The strange thing is, some monitors display the color aligned almost perfectly on these maps and other monitors and projectors show this "digital halo" of color shifting really bad. If I take the layered network overlays in these colors and color tint them to black or grey, white, light green, or even light orange, they no longer have the color shifting and the detail is perfect.
Is there any way to fix this problem? I have tried duplicating the sequence and setting the compressor to 8bit Uncompressed, and while my captured footage is not this compression, in theory the art should render at this higher resolution setting. This did nothing to solve the problem.
I also have tried using different Broadcast safe and Y/C corrector filters with different results. The Y/C filter allowed me to reposition the color problem and thus removing most of the problem, but also removing most of the color. Nothing else has allowed me to seemingly move the color into the proper possition.
What is causing this color shift on the displayed NTSC image?
In FCP 4.5 I can see my rendered video in the program viewer screen and besides the pixel compression appearing on the lines, overall the video looks great paused or even better when playing. Then you view it through my deck onto my Pro Sony NTSC 19" color monitor and it also appears great, with a slight color halo to the left of these colors, but the color in the lines are there. If you are a few feet from the screen and know what you are looking for you might see it, but doubtful. Then you view it using the same signal on a 17" Samsung TV and the color shifting makes the map and other art, like the clients blue logo, look horrible, with each color line appearing twice and offset left from each other as if you had double vision. Normally I would think it is the TV causing this, but then we tested this same movie on 2 differnt projectors. The $700 Epson projector displayed everything beautifully, again with only the slightest color halo to the left, but then the Panasonic $4000 projector made everthing in these colors look double vision again. What is going on???
One more thing to keep in mind, my color bars also show this problem with these colors as well as shot footage of these facilities. There are tall red poles in the shots and everything displays fine except for the red pole color looks like it's glowing off the pole to the left.
PLEASE tell me there is a solution to this.

I have tried Degaussing, using filters, changing cables, and testing other monitors and systems on these monitors, everthing I can think of to solve the issue. Is it FCPo or is it the monitors?... or is it a signal strength thing. Can monitors and projectors shift color when the signal is read from a DVD or Mini DV Deck? Is there a fequency difference (Ie: 75mgz or 80 mgz) that might be causing the shift in some monitors and not so badly in others. But if this was true, how would some DVD's (like Baby Einstein DVDs that use really bright colors) display red and blue perfect using these same player and monitor, while my projects is shifting color? Doesn't that rule out the signal from the DVD player if other DVD's do not have this issue?
I have uploaded the original art used, an exported .jpg file from the FCP timeline and sample photos of 2 different monitors to show to show this problem as best I can. http://www.smmlv.com/testproject/
Someone out there must have had this problem before. There's no way a color shift problem like this with Mini DV has gone on this long without someone seeing it.
One last thing about what I have tried... I do understand that with editing in Mini DV instead of uncompressed or HD video I lose a bit of resolution (4:2:2) and I see this compression occuring in some of the areas in the video where these problems persist. But, I did remake the art and rerender this project in an 8bit uncompressed settings and then displayed that up on the screen and I get the same color shift. I keep going in circles trying to find the culprit that is causing the delema.
PLEASE HELP! There are large tours going through our facilities daily and the large screen projector is displaying this problem as well. Let's just hope they don't notice and that their TV's at home or office does not display it on our final DVD's made.

What is the rationale behind the "Adobe Standard" color calibration profile?

Hi! I'm trying to figure out how to make the most of the various color calibration profiles Adobe offers for my cameras with Lightroom 5. I do understand the purpose of the camera-specific options--they're designed to help approach camera JPEG processing mode colors. And they work wonderfully--they're very helpful!
But I don't really understand the purpose of the "Adobe Standard" calibration option. What is it for? Why does it look the way it looks? Has it been designed to ease certain processing goals? To enhance certain colors or tonal combinations? Is it designed to be more accurate than the manufacturer profiles in some way? What can I do with "Adobe Standard" that I can't do with one of the camera-specific calibration options?
I would find it *extremely* helpful if someone who's involved with the engineering behind Lightroom's color (or anyone else who's especially knowledgeable about Lightroom's design) might talk a little bit about why "Adobe Standard" looks the way it looks. What's it for? To what purposes can I leverage it?
Thanks so much!

MarkJoseph wrote:
I would find it *extremely* helpful if someone who's involved with the engineering behind Lightroom's color (or anyone else who's especially knowledgeable about Lightroom's design) might talk a little bit about why "Adobe Standard" looks the way it looks. What's it for? To what purposes can I leverage it?
Adobe Stadnard is the name for the individual profiles Adobe builds for each camera it receives. A new camera ships, Adobe gets their hands on one and builds a profile with that sample. It isn't suppose to mimic the in-camera JPEG settings, I don't believe it's supposed to mimic anything but instead produce what is (and quotes are super important in this context) the most 'accurate' color response from the target they use to create the profile. But here's the rub. Not all cameras from the same make and model behave identically. Adobe simply can't get piles of the same body and build then average that response. So they provide a means for you to build your own custom DNG camera profile and for differing illuminates. So if you want to leverage it, you'd get a target (MacBeth 24 patch, X-rite Passport) and build your own custom profile. It can really help depending on how your sensor deviates from the sensor Adobe got to build their profiles.
For more info on DNG profiles and rolling your own:
In this 30 minute video, we’ll look into the creation and use of DNG camera profiles in three raw converters. The video covers:
What are DNG camera profiles, how do they differ from ICC camera profiles.
Misconceptions about DNG camera profiles.
Just when, and why do you need to build custom DNG camera profiles?
How to build custom DNG camera profiles using the X-rite Passport software.
The role of various illuminants on camera sensors and DNG camera profiles.
Dual Illuminant DNG camera profiles.
Examples of usage of DNG camera profiles in Lightroom, ACR, and Iridient Developer.
Low Rez (YouTube):
http://youtu.be/_fikTm8XIt4
High Rez (download):
http://www.digitaldog.net/files/DNG%20Camera%20profile%20video.mov

Is my Cinema Display running in 32-bit color mode?

I'm calibrating my Cinema Display and have read that I should check to see that it is running in full 24- or 32-bit color mode. Can anyone tell me how to do that? Thanks.

Open the Displays pane of System Preferences. If you're given the option to change the monitor's bitdepth, choose at least millions of colors.
(119642)

Pictures too dark - not a monitor calibration problem

I believe this is some kind of color space or EXIF data issue I'm having. The jist of it is this: if I view one of my pictures (they're in jpg format) in Windows Explorer, they look fine. But when Lightroom opens the picture or displays it in the library, it looks too dark. (Important note: this is not a monitor calibration issue. Searching on Google reveals tons of advice along these lines, but that's not what's happening here. Lightroom is simply displaying things differently than anything else.)
Photoshop had this problem also, but Adobe supplied a patch that made Photoshop ignore the color space EXIF data so my pictures would display "correctly". There does not seem to be any such equivalent fix for Lightroom. I'm using Windows XP - perhaps there's something I can do in the OS to fix this issue? I believe most of my pictures are sRGB.
How do I get Lightroom to display my pictures correctly? They are, of course, impossible to edit while they display like this. Thanks in advance for any help!

Thanks for the responses. I freely admit I don't understand color management. I also admit I have not calibrated my monitor. I know, therefore, that my colors are not perfectly synchronized across all my devices - and I'm fine with that for the moment, because they are close enough. What comes out of my camera, what is displayed on my monitor, and what comes out of my printer are all pretty close. I will calibrate soon and get even closer, but for now perfect color isn't my chief concern.
My problem is not that the colors don't match, it's that the pictures are too dark when displayed in Lightroom. By "too dark", I mean several stops of exposure too dark. A picture will display a certain way on my camera and in Windows, and the histogram reflects this. Then I load it into Lightroom, and while the histogram looks the same of course, the picture itself is being displayed like I took it at night. Hence, as far as I can tell, it's not a monitor calibration issue. If I were to calibrate the monitor to display the pictures in Lightroom correctly, everything else would look too bright, wouldn't it? Including Lightroom itself. Besides, it wouldn't be possible to brighten my monitor to the point that the pictures looked acceptable - that's how dark they are.
Here's another clue: if I'm at work, and I RDP to my PC at home, and open Lightroom in the RDP session, everything looks great. So, I'm thinking it's a Windows color space issue of some kind. The question is, since I admit I don't know much about color space, what might be the problem and how might I fix it?
So to summarize: incorrect color calibration isn't my problem (though I know it's something I have to do if I ever want to perfectly match output on my monitor and printer). The colors across all my devices are close enough for my purposes. Incorrect color isn't my problem at all. The problem is that Lightroom on my PC displays pictures as if most of the histogram was on the left, even when that's not the case. The pictures in Lightroom look nothing like they look on my camera, in Windows Explorer, or when printed on my printer. Why is that, and what can I do to fix it? Thanks.

10-Bit color calibration problem

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