14-bit NEF to DNG conversion

Hi all,
since I can't seem to find any definitive information on this... how's Lighroom 4 dealing with 14-bit raw NEF files (coming from a D7000 in this case) when it is converting to DNG? Is the entire 14-bit colour information being kept or is there some sort of loss or conversion going on?
Cheers
Michael

it sort of depends.
NC: Thanks so much, I think at this point the one biggest question I want to put to rest is this: When comparing the pure, raw, unmodified mosaic data in the original raw capture, is there any difference at all between that data and the image data contained in the DNG? A while back someone was trying to convince me they don’t like DNG because the raw data is being modified from the native capture. I’ve never believed this to be the case. Can you describe to me the nature of the image data in the DNG as it compares to the data in the original native file?
EC: This is a tough question to answer. It is a bit of a gray area. The shortest and most honest answer is: it depends!
now the important part for you:
NC: Great, got it. Just one final question, if you don’t mind: if I convert a raw file from a _typical_ DSLR (eg my Canon 5D Mark II) is the scene-referred data contained in that DNG any different than the original scene-referred data in the native raw file?
EC: No, they should be identical in the typical case (e.g., Nikon SLR, Canon SLR). An exception in the case of Canon SLR is the S-RAW and M-RAW modes. Those are not really mosaic files; they are stored in a quasi-JPEG like YCbCr space (luminance and color components), which DNG does not natively support. As a result, if you convert a S-RAW or M-RAW Canon file to DNG, it will get mapped to a RGB color space before getting stored into the DNG container (and hence will not be the same as the original).
read more here:
http://www.natcoalson.com/blog/2011/11/29/my-adobe-dng-chat-with-eric-chan/

Similar Messages

Did my NEF to DNG conversion work properly?

I had read that when I convert to DNG in Lightroom (v4), the file sizes will drop by about 20% (I checked the check box for compression). I'm converting from a batch of 16-bit NEFs I created when scanning slides using the Nikon LS-5000 scanner. Those scans and files were created with Nikon Scan 4.0. After doing the conversion in Lightroom, the DNG file sizes are around 3MB-17MB. The original NEF files were about 135MB. Where in the world did all my data go? I'm concerned that the conversion to DNG threw away a ton of the original data. How is that much of a reduction possible? I'm hoping that there wasn't some catastrophic problem during the conversion, as I also checked the check box to delete the originals after the conversion is finished.
The image quality seems to be okay when looking at the DNG files in Lightroom.
Thanks,
Jay

I scanned at the full resolution (4000dpi, I think) of the LS-5000. The DNGs all appear to have their full original resolution, 5782x3946. This was one of the first things I thought about, too, but the resolution doesn't appear to have been changed any.
Jeff, upon re-opening the Convert Photo to DNG dialog box, I see that I did check "Use Lossy Compression." I spaced. I belived I was telling it to use lossless compression (I was assuming that no compression would have been used otherwise). So the conversion makes them into a high-quality JPEG, basically (but still 16-bit)? If I don't check that, will the DNG conversion use lossless compression, or no compression at all?
These slides are from a few decades to several decades old, all shot by my dad. I'm wondering if I would even see any degradation from using the lossy compression option. 135MB per image seems WAY beyond what is necessary to maintain the quality of these slides, so I would like SOME compression, but don't want to see any clearly visible signs of quality loss. Any words of wisdom welcome.

.NEF to .DNG conversion - why the weight loss?

What info is tossed when converting from .Nef > .DNG?
For example, I just converted a file and the Info says:
.NEF (15.6MB) > .DNG (10.9)
Is that one third drop in MB just Nikon encoding? Or is the image affected?

Try posting in the DNG forum. There are separate forums for DNG and for ACR.
http://forums.adobe.com/community/dng#
http://forums.adobe.com/community/cameraraw
(The answer is probably DNG compression; but let the pros there tell you.)

D40x .NEF to DNG conversion fail

I recently got interested in taking HDR photos with my D40x and have taken a few RAW formatted photos that I was going to use. Excited as I was when I tried opening them in PS CS2 I was equally disappointed when I realized I couldn't get them to open. I've never updated my PS CS2 program since the day I got it so I've tried everything and I'm still at a loss, I did the following please let me know if I missed something...
Downloaded PS CS2 version 9.0.2
Downloaded DNG Converter and Camera Raw 3.7
When I open the converter I select the folder that my .NEF files are in and select CONVERT and it spits out this message, "There was an error parsing the file," for every image status. I eventually gave up trying to convert them to DNG and just tried opening them directly into PS CS2 by going to File/Automate/Merge to HDR. Doing this gave me an error message as well but said, "Could not complete the merge to HDR command because a command was not available." So I tried to open it by simply going to File/Open and I received a message that said, "Could not complete your request because it is not the right kind of document."
Anyone else have some ideas of what I could possibly do to get these RAW .NEF photos into my CS2? Any help is appreciated!
Thanks in advance,
Corey

Of course you can use the free DNG converter, but if you want the convenience of opening your NEF files directly, there's no time like the present to upgrade to Photoshop CS5. I don't think you'll get upgrade pricing any longer once Photoshop CS6 releases.
-Noel

NEF --- DNG Conversion: Is it lossy or lossless?

I was recently reading on a Nikon Forum where a writer stated that some data is lost when converting to DNG in Lightroom. His comments follow.
I'd appreciate if some of the seasoned experts here would offer an opinion, and hopefully, a rebuttal. Thanks for any information you can share on this subject
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Every compression algorith is flawed if a single bit is lost and the original can not be recreated. Since the DNG converter must know about your camera model and it actually converts the NEF into an image before compressing the image, AND you can not, after converting to DNG convert back to original NEF, it is to me obvious that it is indeed a lossy compression, not just 'simple' data compression like zip, tar or whatever other type of data compression you want to compare with, which is truly lossless.
The Nikon lossless compression works entirely on data compression principle, preserving every bit and recreating every bit of data when you edit the raw image, and that can not be done once the image is converted to DNG. That is why many people, who use DNG, also preserve the original NEF, which in my opinion, is a totally pointless work flow. The only reason I can see to use DNG is the ability to share the image with somebody else who is not able to edit NEF, but I might as well use TIFF in that case.
The DNG converter must have knowledge of the camera model concerned, and be able to process the source raw image file, including key metadata to be able to convert and compress. A real lossless compression algorithm NEVER looks at the contents of the data because it is totally irrelevant for the converter to know what type of data you convert and try to compress, since it is based on mathematical patterns and statistics only.
I look at DNG like I look at PDF. A Word document, especially with photographs in it, can be converted to PDF and it may look like you have not lost anything, but yes, you have lost a lot actually and you can never ever recreate the original Word document with the same quality like you have had in your original.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

727737757 wrote:
The only reason why I convert NEF to DNG is that I like *not* having sidecar files.
A perfectly valid reason to convert to DNG, in my opinion.
And if you are using in Adobe software, you will notice no ill side-effects (e.g. no data loss) whatsoever, so I think you can have full confidence..
But to offer a little more explanation:
The DNG converter needs to know the camera model because it's doing a lot more than "zipping" up the raw data. e.g. it's also creating a camera profile, and interpreting white balance..
Obviously, lossy compression is, well, lossy - I was talking about the lossless compression of raw data, which is 100% perfectly lossless (not a single bit is dropped..).
But if you open a NEF in Aperture, you can see the focus point. If you open the converted DNG, you can't. Not because the focus point information is not in the DNG file, but because it's not in a prescribed place where Aperture can find it - so you could say it's "lost" for practical purposes, although that's not how I think of it.
Cheers,
Rob

LR and DNG conversions from NEF

Just received a batch of Nefs and corresponding dng conversions from a client. I immediately noticed that there was a serious white balance difference between these pairs--LR shows the Nefs at 5600 and the dngs at 7100. Is this typical. I have worked with dngs a few times, but this is the first set of images that I have seen with side by side conversions. Is this typical? Neither the dngs or nefs have been previously edited. I don't normally work with dngs--only when a customer insists.
Very curious about this WB difference. Any explanations from the color gurus here? TIA

I was aware that the numbers were relative and would likely be different, but in this case the images are visibly very different--I just gave the numbers to indicate what LR saw them as. When the difference is between 5600 (NEF) and 7100 (dng) one sees a big difference between the cool NEF and the warm dng on the screen. This difference is seen systematically in a batch of about 75 images. LR shows no metadata differences except the WB reading. Could this have resulted from a dng conversion in an older dng converter?

DNG conversion fail and Photoshop will not open my NEF files (Newbie question)

Two part question. First, I just recently installed photoshop CS4 to my (windows vista) computer and I go to upload NEF photos to bridge and I check the box that says "Convert to DNG" and when it finishs uploading it says "Files successfully copied, However, DNG conversion failed." It says it everytime and I don't know what to do about that.
Second part: I try to open my NEF files in photoshop it says "Could not complete your request because it is not the right type of document." I am using a Nikon D90 and I don't know if that has anything to do with this. I apologize if this question is in the wrong forum, I am new to this and I thought maybe camera raw had something to do with this at least.
Thanks for any help

You need to update your Camera Raw plug-in to either version 5.2 or 5.3RC, as well as the new DNG converter. They are available on the Adobe download page, and there are complete instructions for installation available there.

"There was not enough memory" error, DNG conversion.

I have CS4 and I like to convert my files to dng, however, I can't seem to do it on multiple raw files, because after fifty or so, I get the message, Incomplete because 'There was not enough memory.'
I originally thought this may have had something to do with Bridge and trying to save way too many files through acr in bridge, since bridge is a bit of a ram hog at times and has cache issues, so I tried using the Adobe DNG Converter standalone application, and the same thing happened.
I am trying to convert just over a thousand images, NEF, about 15M each. I have several hundred gigs of HD space, GeForce 8600GT video, 2G ram, WinXP SP2.
I track my actual memory usage and adobe dng converter has never used more than 6MB of memory.
Anyone know why I can't convert my files?

I want to try to reproduce this problem, a few questions...
Which version of the DNG converter did you use (the latest is 5.5)?
What camera produced the NEFs?
What NEF settings did you use, if any, compressed, uncompressed, 14-bit, etc.?
What DNG conversion settings did you use?
Did the NEFs already have settings (XMP sidecar files?). If you did have settings, what kind of settings, just basic adjustments, or did the settings also include localized corrections, spot heals, etc.?
Thanks,
David

System or program crashes when converting from NEF to DNG

Hello Adobe.
First off, I love your software.
Second, this is my concern. You guys are pushing DNG as the go to raw format. That would be great if it worked good, but it doesn't.
First, when I convert from my Nikon NEF format (Nikon D7100) it chugs along just fine, then suddenly crashes either the program or my system after converting 50-100 or so images.
I have tried everything from downloading your software again, to turning off everything other then what is needed to do the conversion.
Of course I have the latest DNG utility/plug in/drivers from your website.
Second, the DNG images open much slower then my NEF images. Plus when I view them in Windoze file system view and want to see the photos in extra large icons, it renders the images very slowly.
My system is Windoze 8.1 updated always, Photoshop CC latest and greatest (I'm in the rental program), Bridge and Lightroom.
I have tried to use bridge and lightroom to do the conversion, even a separate utility and the crashing still happens. All these are up to date.
My system has an i7 Intel processor, 16 gb of Kingston ram, an ASUS P8Z77 MPRO mother board and a good stable power supply.
No other software crashes my system like converting from NEF to DNG.
What I do notice is my CPU fan goes into high RPM's and I am wondering if the CPU is overheating causing this.
If that is the case, then it would seem to me the conversion software is taxing the system far more then it should since my system is no slouch and while it isn't the latest and greatest, I would consider it to be in the top 20%,
it should be able to handle the conversion with no problem.
Are you aware of problems with the DNG software and or file format?
Is their any information I could forward to you to help solve the problem?

Photoshop Help | Digital Negative (DNG) - Adobe
helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/digital-negative.html
DNG is a publicly available archival format for storing camera raw files. Adobe provides Adobe DNG Converter, a free utility that converts files from more than ...
That is off the net, therefore, Adobe looks at DNG as part of Adobe Photoshop, which it is if a person chooses to convert.
My issue has to do with it crashing, both my system and software.
I assume if people here are using it, then they can advise me if they are having similar problems.
I have also written Adobe directly several times over the last month and have yet to receive a response.
I apologize that I posted here, but since I consider DNG an integral part of Photoshop, then I think it is appropriate here.
I was also not aware of a DNG forum, if one exists.
Thank you for your assistance.
Jim

DNG Conversion Fails in Camera Download

I've been using Photoshop CS4, Bridge and ACR for about a year. I was sold on the Adobe rationale for converting to DNG and have been doing so using the convenient check box on the Photodownloader screen. It has worked fine the entire time - until now. Suddenly that no longer works: although the DNG conversion box is checked Bridge only downloads the raw NEF files and reports at the end that it the DNG conversion failed on all of the photos that were downloaded.
So - here is what I've tried:
- Rebooted my Windows XP computer ( dual core - which has 4GB of RAM). Same results - no conversion
- Reinstalled Photoshop CS4 - and everything on the disk. Same results - no conversion
- Downloaded version 5.7 of Camera Raw (just found out there is a 5.9). However that seems to only update camera profiles - and doesn't change the version that displays on the Camera Raw preferences menu: 5.0.0.178. Same results - no conversion.
- Finally I downloaded the free DNG converter. It works, but I would much prefer to have the download program work
Any clues to solving this will be greatly appreciated.

Film4Now wrote:
…version 5.7 of Camera Raw (just found out there is a 5.9)…
??? !!! Where?
Film4Now wrote:
… the version that displays on the Camera Raw preferences menu: 5.0.0.178…
That proves you did not install 5.7 correctly and you failed to remove the old 5.0 plug-in.
Wo Tai Lao Le
我太老了

NEF to DNG

When converting to DNG does ALL the EXIF data come across?
I ask this because if I open a NEF file with Capture NX2 I can see details
about my off-camera flash groups that I have used.
Lightroom 2 or ACR does not seem to show this which is OK, I'm more
concerned that If I
convert to DNG then this information will be brought across in the hope that
a future version of Lightroom or ACR will display it.

>Do two lossless compressions heaped on top of one another not cause problems?
I guess you are thinking of what happens, when you ZIP a compressed file, like JPEG, MPEG - or a compressed raw. That too does not cause any difference in the data, but the effectivity of the second compression is strongly reduced, even eliminated.
In the NEF->DNG conversion case the compressions are not "heaped on top of each other". The native raw data is decompressed, and then it gets compressed again, using an only slightly different method.
>For bright scenes the file size is slightly smaller, but when I photographed stars, the file became tiny
The size difference is not caused by the (really small) difference in the compression methods. The camera's computing power is much less than that of a modern desktop or laptop, and the camera has to finish fast: at 3-5-8 frames per second there is not much room for optimization. In contrast, when the DNG conversion occurs, there is enough computing power and time to fine tune the compression.
>and didn't look so hot
Have you compared the ACR result of a NEF and of the DNG? If you did not cause any difference in the conversion by different options or adjustments, then this is the product of your imagination.
However, comparing the result of the NX conversion with that of ACR is not of limited value in this respect.

NEF to DNG 6.5 results in different number of unique colors, pixels and RGB values

I took pictures from my old Nikon D40. I converted them with the standard settings from NEF to DNG.
I then used UFRAW under Linux and saw that the pixel size increased from 3039x2040 in NEF to 3040x2040 in the DNG - and that the live view RGB values were about 5% higher for NEF that for DNG.
"FastStone Image Viewer" shows the same increase in pixel size. Additionally, it shows that the DNG has roughly 93,000 unique colors compare to 90,000 for the NEF file.
More pixel, different RGB values, different counted unique colors - what's going on here? This doesn't look like a 1:1 conversion?

Not exactly sure what you're comparing. For raw data you need to be comparing the original mosaic data values (not some converted result, or even partially converted result like demosaiced result). Are you sure that's what you're doing?

Sporadic failure dng conversion

I've recently upgraded from Windows XP (SP3) to Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit. At the same time I upgraded from 2 gb of RAM to 4 gb. Since the upgrade I've been experiencing random errors in DNG conversion. I usually convert to DNG inside Lightroom 2.5 by selecting the files to be converted and then use the command Library...convert to DNG. This process randomly freezes/hangs. I've tried using the standalone DNG converter from Adobe (5.5), but this results in random errors of DNG conversion (about 10 % of files fail conversion). The RAW files I'm trying to convert are from a canon eos 350 d. I've never had an issue using Windows XP. I've tested the RAM with Windows Memory Diagnostic - no errors are reported. I'm not experiencing other issues.
I would appreciate feedback. Has anybody experienced similar issues? Any ideas as to what could be causing the problem?

I solved my problem - it was caused by a conflict between Lightroom 2 and the virus software Eset Nod32. After uinstalling the latter, I have not experienced issues with DNG conversion.

Is DNG conversion during Tethered Shooting Possible?

Previously, using a Canon 5D MkII and lightroom 2 I could shoot to a hot folder which Lightroom would watch, convert the images to DNG and add them to my catalog.
I love that Tethered Shooting is now part of Lightroom but unfortunately I can't seem to find anywhere to set up a recipe or parameters for the import and can only convert the files to DNG in post.... bit of a waste of time isn't it?
Am I missing something.... I sure hope there will be more options in tethered shooting in the final release. I have had to use Capture One to do Tethered shooting on Jobs but hate that I can't import the corrections into Lightroom. I was really hoping to circumvent C1 and save a bunch of time.
If it's not there, please add DNG conversion on the fly and keep my files in LR rather than C1

Right now, when tethered, Aperture is preventing files from being written to the CF card in the camera (which I definitely don't want)
You have no control over that behavior. It's the way Aperture works when you are shooting tethered.
If I understand your question, it sounds like you are trying to use Aperture as a replacement/supplement for the LCD on the back of your camera. If so, is there a HDMI output on your 5DMKIII? Maybe you could attach that output to a monitor as a solution.
Message was edited to add question about HDMI.

Any benefit to convert NEF to DNG

Does anyone convert their NEF (D300 in my case) files to Adobe DNG and then start their workflow?
Or are the NEF's just imported into Aperture and then adjustments are made?
I use Aperture now for a long time. I usually just import the NEF files. I've been using Photoshop CS4 to learn it and have just been sending the NEF file within Aperture to Photoshop. And of course it comes back to Aperture as a PSD file.
I ask because Aperture has a tendency to lag making adjustments. But I noticed Aperture doesn't lag if I make adjustments on the PSD file or a DNG file. Adjustments are in real time.
So I'm thinking of converting my NEF's as the first step of my work flow. Then import the DNG's into Aperture.
I have all of the NIK Software and working with this in Photoshop is 1000% easier in Photoshop than Aperture.
I can't seem to tell any degrading of the NEF converted to DNG. I've done a few now and compare. I can't seem to tell. Pre or post adjustments made in Aperture.
Thanks for any thoughts or opinions.
*There are always two people in every photograph: the photographer and the viewer. - Ansel Adams.*

musicmaker wrote:
Does anyone convert their NEF (D300 in my case) files to Adobe DNG and then start their workflow?
DNG is just Adobe's proprietary attempt to sell the world on using Adobe's RAW conversion format ("DNG," the result of converting camera makers' individual RAW files using Adobe Camera Raw, "ACR"). Adobe benefited greatly with PDF and wants to do the same with RAW DSLR capture.
DNG is not better. In fact most folks (at least the ones not already sleeping with Adobe) will most often find conversions by Aperture and/or individual camera vendors' converters (like NX2) to be visually better than ACR to DNG. However differences among converters are usually slight enough anyway to make RAW-conversion quality irrelevant when compared to workflow.
The conversion of RAW data is different for each individual camera, no RAW converter is best for all cameras, and the results of conversion are a matter of individual taste in any event.
Note that most camera vendors keep RAW algorithms and protocols very secret, so folks like Adobe and Apple do a lot of deduction (some say speculation) when building each camera's RAW converter based on imperfect information. That is why most folks consider Nikon's conversions of NEF files "best;" but unfortunately Nikon's workflow is atrocious.
...is there any significant advantage to converting (to DNG)?
No, there is significant disadvantage in converting NEF to DNG. You would be seriously disrupting Aperture's workflow just to achieve what most folks consider to be less-good RAW conversions.
Some photogs do find significant advantage in first using NX2 to convert Nikon NEF files to TIFF. Others find the differences from Aperture small enough not to justify the weight of the NX2 workflow.
I read the Adobe site regarding how DNG is more a standard then NEF or any proprietary camera file.
That is just disgusting Adobe marketing BS. Nikon was around supporting standards like their lens mount for decades before Adobe even existed. Even if Nikon self-destructed today there will always be plenty of RAW converters for the billions of NEF files already created.
Of course Adobe would love it if the world lowered their standards to some Adobe-defined lowest common denominator, but then we would probably not see the various consistently fast tech advances like the low light performance of the Nikon D3.
-Allen Wicks

14-bit NEF to DNG conversion

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