16:9 pixel aspect preset changed...

Hi - I'm just running the Premiere CS5 demo and have noticed a major difference in the D1/DV PAL Widescreen 16:9 presets from my old CS3. I used to set up a sequence using the above preset but the pixel aspect of 720x576 was 1.422 NOT 1.4587! So when I now bring in a 1024x576 with 1.0 square pixels it doesn't fit whereas with a pixel aspect of 1.422 it did...
Er, what am I missing here?! The pixel aspect between 1024x576 and 720x576 is 1.422 so why has Adobe decided to changed it?
Cheers
Marcus

See this page for links to full explanations:
http://blogs.adobe.com/toddkopriva/2009/07/pixel-aspect-ratios-in-after-e.html
Note that Apple made the same change for Final Cut Studio, and the Foundry made the same change for Nuke.
A mistake was made in the early 90s. Now everyone is fixing it. The underlying cause of the mistake was that the folks doing the original arithmetic didn't know the difference between clean aperture and production aperture. The discrepancy has caused subtle distortions ever since. The hard thing about fixing something that has been broken for so long is that people come to think of the broken way as the "standard".

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The (new) Premiere pixel aspect ratio is wrong for my PAL DV cam footage

I've had a Sony TRV-950E DV-cam since 2003. I've been shooting DV PAL in widescreen.
I just bought Elements 12 to edit my footage, and discovered that the pixel aspect ratio for D1/DV PAL Widescreen has been updated to 1.46 (old value 1.42).
The theory behind this change is that video recorded on 720x576 is slightly wider than 16:9 and that the 16:9 portion is 704x576.
Unfortunately this is not correct for my footage! I've captured the video from my DV-cam (by firewire) and opened it in Premere and it is streched to be shown as 1050x576.
So I did a test:
I filmed a steady shot of a perfect circle and captured the video from the camera and opened it in Premiere. The pixel ascpect ratio 1.46 makes the display 1050x576.
The question is: Am I seeing this displayed as a perfect circle now?
This can be tested:
I make a picture of a perfect circle in Photoshop (square pixels) with size 1024x576. I imported this picture into the Premiere project, and match the two circles: The filmed one, and the Photoshop one.
They DO NOT match! The one on the video is slightly stretched in width.
So then I stretch the Photoshop picture in width to become 1050x576. I then import this picture into the project. And now I have a perfect match between the circles!
This means that my DV camera actually records a 100% 16:9 picture on all the pixels 720x576 - and not a slightly wider picture with the 16:9 part being in 704x576 (which is the reason for the change in pixel aspect ratio from 1.42 to 1.46).
I have some HD scenes that I want to import (and downscale) into my SD project also, and I also have a lot of still pictures.
Unless I can change the setup i Elements to the correct ratio 1.42, these stills and sqare-pixel-video (HD) should ideally be streched from 1024x576 to 1050x576 to match (become equally stretched as) all the SD footage.
How do I solve this?
I just bought Elements 12 three days ago.
(I just tried opening the captured video in Windows Movie Maker - and that program must use pixel aspect ratio 1.42 since the video is diplayed correctly as 1024x576 with a perfect circle)
Regards,
Tom from Norway

Tom
After much thought and exploration and experimentation, I have come to the conclusion that there is no practical purpose for doing anything other than importing your media into the project and editing/exporting. I find no distortion in doing so, be it in the video samples that you posted or in still models that I created for the pixel aspect ratio 1.422 vs 1.4587 for D1/DV PAL Widescreen.
If you have not already, please read the following about the Adobe DV Widescreen Pixel Aspect Ratio change from 1.422 to 1.456.
Please start in the first link which gives some get subsequent links in it
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/673877
http://www.mikeafford.com/blog/2009/03/pal-d1-dv-widescreen-square-pixel-settings-in-after -effects-cs4-vs-cs3/
Also, you may find the following article on square and non square pixels of interest. It uses the PAL DV Widescreen 1.422 pixel aspect ratio in its discussion.
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/gerard_rick/pixel_madness.php
Aside from the explanation for the rights and wrongs of the matter, this is what I actually observed taking your PAL DV AVI Widescreen and PAL MPEG2.mpg Widescreen into the same Premiere Elements 12 Windows PAL DV Widescreen project. Along with your video files were still images that I created in Photoshop Elements 11 Full Editor:
1024 x 576 document with a red circle on Layer 2 of the Layers Palette
1050 x 576 document with a red circle on Layer 1 of the Layers Palette.
The red circles were superimposed in creation. The difference in the pixel dimensions between the two are evidenced by Layer 1 content peaking through on the left and right.
The gpsot readout for pixel aspect ratio for each of the videos was
a. Your PAL DV AVI 720 x 576 Widescreen = 1.422
b. Your PAL MPEG2.mpg 720 x 576 Widescreen = 1.422
Each of the Photoshop Elements documents (circles) saved as .psd files 1050 x 576 pixels.
When all were taken into Premiere Elements 12 project manually set for PAL DV Widescreen, they looked like the following, no display of distortion.......
PAL DV AVI Widescreen 720 x 576 (now the pixel aspect ratio in Premiere Elements Properties was shown as 1.4587, not the 1.422 seen in gspot before import)
PAL MPEG2.mpg Widescreen 720 x 576 (now the pixel aspect ratio in Premiere Elements 12 Properties was shown as 1.4587, not the 1.422 seen in gspot before import)
Edit Menu/Preferences/General with check mark next to "Default Scale to Frame Size" was in effect.
As for the red circles stills (1050 x 576 to equate to the square pixel version of 720 x 576 widescreen) did not distort when brought into the Premiere Elements 12 Edit area monitor which is established by the PAL DV Widescreen project preset with the pixel aspect ratio = 1.4587.
The jpg version of the Photoshop Elements document (.psd) 1050 x 576 pixels (square pixels) looked like:
And, when this Timeline was exported Publish+Share/Computer/AVI with the DV PAL Widescreen preset, there was no distortion in the export. It looked undistorted as it did before export.
So, unless I am overlooking a key point here, I cannot see a reason why you cannot use the video sources that you presented for sampling as weil as stills with the 1050 x 576 pixel dimensions.
The only time I see any distortion possibilities is if you use a player that does not recognize the 16:9 flag that stretches the 720 x 576 to 1050 x 576 for display after encoding.
Trying to convert Premiere Elements 12 which uses the 1.4587 pixel aspect ratio for PAL DV Widescreen into a Premiere Elements 7 which uses the 1.422 pixel aspect ratio for PAL DV Widescreen is up hill in spite of creative thinking on your side.
Please review and let me know if you are seeing another different from what I am reporting with the samples that you posted.
Thank you.
ATR

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My Panasonic camera shoots quicktime .mov JPEG videos in a 720X408 px resolution. I am having a very hard time editing them in Premiere, because I cannot get it to export them in a correct pixel aspect ratio.
Maybe you can figure out what I'm doing wrong. Here's what I do.
First, when opening a new project, the closest frame size I can choose is 720x480. So I choose that. I import the .mov file into it, and put it on the time line. At that point it looks like this:
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/812/premierewindowoc9.jpg
Correct aspect ratio and no deformation.
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I can manually set my frame size to be 720x408 px, assuming that now the frame size will be exactly the same size as my video and no deformation will occur.
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http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6730/exportedmoviehl5.jpg
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When I export it with frame size 720x480, it doesn't add black lines on top and bottom as you'd expect. It does exactly the same thing you see in the image above.
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Tina,
Lets see if we can get kitty onto YouTube.
There are four issues, that you will need to overcome:
1.) Project Preset to begin. Stanley lists the possible choices in post #8, based on the specs of your camera. You will have to determine which of these you used to record the files. These are *probably* set in your cameras menu area, and if you have not changed them, are probably still set. That will get you started in the right direction - but wait, theres more...
2.) It seems that your camera uses Motion-JPG as the encoder to create these files. There are at least two good Motion-JPG CODECs available, Lead and Morgan. Plus, your camera may well have come with its own Motion-JPG CODEC. The CODEC is what allows your camera to encode/compress the video data, and also what allows programs like Premiere to decode that data. Did your camera come with a CD/DVD with software on it? If so, the installation of that software *should* install any proprietary CODECs to your system. Now, if this was the case (or soon will be the case, when you locate that CD/DVD), Premiere *possibly* will be able to use that CODEC to handle the footage from your camera. If it does not, then it is *possibly* only a matter of purchasing, downloading and installing one of the two mentioned Motion-JPG CODECs. Both are relatively inexpensive, and Premiere *usually* can work with either, though your exact footage might not permit this. This is usually because a camera mfgr. chose to do their own thing. Thats why any disc that came with the camera is the first place to start.
3.) Now, you are in Premiere, have the proper CODEC installed on your system, and have Imported the footage into a Project with the proper Presets. If all is working, and I hope that it is, you just edit your footage.
4.) You have been working with Presets established based on your footage. That is likely not exactly what you will want to upload to YouTube. This is where Export comes into play. Unfortunately, YouTube seems to change the specs. weekly. About the time that someone publishes fool-proof details and settings for YouTube, they (YouTube) change everything. The best advice is to search as many fora, as you can for Export Settings for YouTube. Look at the dates for all articles. You really will only care about the most recent - very recent.
Going back up the list, there is another possibility. That would be to use a 3rd party conversion program to convert your footage to a DV-AVI Type II file. Often, with the proper CODEC installed, Premiere can do this internally, though not always, and even when it works, there can be problems. I use DigitalMedia Converter (Deskshare) a shareware program for most of my conversions. There are many freeware, and shareware, conversion programs available. Many get mentioned in this forum. Many get glowing reviews. Some are easier to use, than others.
Some balk at the thought of owning Premiere Pro and then having to use some 3rd party software to get their footage into a robust NLE, that they paid good money for. The fact is that Premiere Pro was designed to work primarily with DV-AVI Type II files, from mini tape cameras - the point made by several. That does not mean that it cannot work with other file types. It does, though not always without problems. Sometimes just passing the material through a conversion program will clear up all problems and no one is the wiser. I often use Premiere Elements, Pros little bitty brother, to convert some file formats, because it is more tolerant of many of these, than is Pro.
Good luck, and sorry that I do not have a current suggestion for Export to YouTube. Since it is a hot distribution medium, you should have no problem finding the correct settings for today - be sure to check the date of all articles, as the specs change all the time and in a heartbeat.
Let us know if you have any more questions. For "how things are done in Premiere," I recommend the Premiere-wikia: http://premierepro.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
for tutorials. Most that you could want to do will be there someplace. The current YouTube setting might be an exception, just because every time the Wikia gets updated, that info is out of date.
Hunt

16:9 pixel aspect preset changed...

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