2nd monitor color management: Ps v Lr

Please help me understand the following problem ... but first, my hardware: Macbook Air (mid-2011) with OS X 10.8, with a NEC wide gamut P221W monitor connected as a secondary display. The NEC display is calibrated with Spectraview and an X-rite eye-one display sensor.
I usually work with Lightroom 4 exclusively, but I will on occassion turn to Photoshop CS5 for working with layers. I've configured Lr for using Ps as a alternate editor and Lr is supposed to create a PSD file, 16bit and embed ProphotoRGB as it working color space. The problem is, these exported PSD images appear undersaturated on the NEC display ... but examining the PSD data implies PpRGB. Ps is configured for AdobeRGB, but appropriately asks about the mismatch, and I select use PpRGB These undersaturated colors are in contrast with how Lr displays the same image on the same monitor. Also, if I put both images on the Macbook primary display (Lr in the background, Ps in front), the colors appear to be the same. Also, if I quit both programs and open Ps only and then load the recent image, the colors will appear with correct saturation ...
I can only conclude that Lr interferes with Ps properly compensating via the NEC's display profile ... and therefore I'll need to close Lr when editing with Ps. Has this behaviour been verified by anyone else? Is there a remedy??
TIA & Cheerios from the Avalon

>it shows the mismatch dialogue box: Embedded Adobe RGB 1998, Working: Monitor3-7-08.
Ow, this means you have Photoshop set up incorrectly. Go to Edit->Color settings and make sure that the top-profile (RGB) says adobeRGB. You should never have a monitor profile there except if you're a web designer.
>DYP, you can change LR colour space to other than ProPhoto as default.
No you cannot. You can only change the default profile Lightroom uses to send to Photoshop. Lightroom ALWAYS uses a prophotoRGB-like working space internally for every picture.
>I set it to Adobe RGB to sync with camera and PS.
If you shoot RAW, the in-camera setting does not matter and Lightroom will render as wide as prophotoRGB.
>Would changing to ProPhoto colour space not cancel my calibrated monitor profile? Or am I misunderstanding the principles behind monitor calibration?
No, they have nothing to do with each other. Color managed apps automatically translate between their working space and the monitor profile. This capability is the basic meaning of being color managed. They get the information about the monitor profile from the OS. You never have to tell them about it. Photoshop just knows it. You do not have to set it up anywhere.

Similar Messages

Dual-monitor color management?

So I've got a dual-monitor setup running OS 10.7 on a Mac Pro, and color management in Bridge CS5.1 on my second screen is a mess. Both monitors have been individually calibrated with a Pantone Huey Pro (not perfect, but generally pretty consistent across screens).
Viewing an image in Bridge on my first screen, I have no problem. But the same image, when viewed on my second screen, appears heavily oversaturated. When I open the image in Photoshop or Preview, the color is accurate and is consistent across both screens. The below image illustrates the problem: the colors shown correctly in Photoshop (foreground) and incorrectly in Bridge (background). The Creative Suite color settings in Bridge show the settings as "synchronized" with the "North American General Purpose 2" default.
I'm sort of out of my depth here when it comes to color management. Do I have something set wrong? Is this a Lion-related bug? Any help would be appreciated.

The way I have it set up is this: I have two synchronized windows, one on each of my two displays. In one I have a content panel, metadata, collections, etc. In the second window I just have a preview panel, supplying me with a full-screen (almost) preview of any thumbnail I select from the content panel in the other window.
Content (assuming thumbnails as well) panel preview on one display and the Preview panel preview on the other display are both being generated by one application and that is Bridge. Like I said above, I don't think, in fact I'm almost certain this is impossible for Bridge to pull off because of the dual matrices (mathematical formulas) written into each custom display profile that occupy the same video chip to calculate and control hue/saturation appearance in color managed images. Think of the complexity involved. Now Adobe is known for creating workflow miracles with their programming but I doubt they'ld be able to pull that off with Bridge.
Photoshop can pull this off having one image on one display and dragging to the other where it makes the adjustment on the fly. I've seen the quick shift that occurs doing this. But I don't think Bridge can do this because of it's caching structure. I hope an Adobe employee chimes in to correct me.
Now this dovetails into your mentioning forcing a display into the sRGB space during calibration and profiling of each display. This is not what happens doing a hardware calibration. I'm assuming you pick your target Luminance (120 cd/m2 +/-), Gamma (2.2. gamma-usually native) and Color Temp (6500K). It doesn't matter if you did anyway, but what the hardware calibrator does is measure each display's RGB colorant and density range and write the data into the final profile that allows applications like Colorsync Utility to display a 3D gamut model and color managed applications like Photoshop to show colors as intended.
Your display may be close to sRGB but never exact to it because sRGB is a synthetic (made up) color space. Your display has physical anomalies that must be measured and written into the profile to properly display the intended appearance of color referencing the CIELAB color space which is based on human vision. Everything about computerized color in a color managed workflow is based on mapping color to display properly according to gamut size. A computer is a dumb machine and has to be told everything using math. You actually do have to draw it a map to follow.
Bridge's Preview pane looking different may be either referencing the other display profile or is stuck referencing the other and what's happening is the equivalent of Assigning one of the display profiles to the Preview like you can do to an image in Photoshop. Try it. Take your image and convert to one of your display profiles and assign the other display profile to it. Check if you see a slight shift. If Bridge's main Preview pane is stuck showing pixels mapped to (synthetic) sRGB then the same assigning of the display profile effect takes place.
And/or the thumbnails aren't color managed and the Preview pane is and maybe a bit of the above is compounding things. If you aren't confused now can you imagine trying to mathematically write the thumbnail previews on one display and the main Preview on the other both controlled by one application on top of caching and managing a large image database?
Keep the Preview pane and Content pane on one display. Edit your images in Photoshop/ACR/Lightroom on the primary display.
The Color Settings where you select North American Prepress...Web...General Purpose...etc. only applies to how images are handled and previewed that don't have an embedded profile. Are your jpeg images embedded with a profile? If so then this is not the issue. This doesn't apply to Raw captures because their previews are generated by the default Adobe Camera Raw settings.
Omke, no more Version Cue? That's welcome news!

Monitor color management: can somebody help? thx

Strange thing happened today on my PC, I hope someone can help…
Pdf files has strange color shift in Acrobat 8 and Reader 9 as well, Win XP. The change came suddenly. On other PCs the same files look fine. JPGs, video and other files are OK.
I compared settings Preferences/Documents and /Color management and didn’t find any differences - all are defaults. I re-installed both programs, no change.
Have a look at the picture, left is the correct version, right is from my PC:
Thanx for any suggestions
Martin

More than likely a corrupt monitor profile.
Re-calibrate and profile your monitor (which will create a new monitor profile.)

Photoshop CS3 doesn't like "Lenovo ThinkPad LCD Monitor" color management profile

When launching Photoshop CS3 Extended, I get a warning:
The monitor profile "Lenovo ThinkPad LCD Monitor" appears to be defective. Please rerun your monitor calibration software.
[Ignore Profile] [Use Anyway]
If this can be confirmed, could it please be the target of a minor update/patch?
This recent T61p 15.4" WSXGA+ notbook's monitor is honestly pretty bad in terms of color accuracy. The overall sense is very blue; yellows show up orange. Is this normal? But that's really a side issue. I do most of my work on an external monitor anyway.
Solved!
Go to Solution.

Thank you very kindly, Erik; my searches hadn't found that. However, my T61p appears to already have that software -- not surprising as that was released in December and this notebook was built about a month ago.
I tried the instructions given, but Windows said my computer was already up-to-date. I suppose I could try uninstalling what the computer came with and reinstalling the download...
[Edit 1]
Ah, wait... I retried it from the device manager instead of display properties -- here, I could be sure I was picking the proper "monitor" (the display properties showed only my external monitor). It did instal... said I had version 4.0 and v 4.1 has the "fix" according to the readme.
It wants me to reboot. I'll post again if somehow that didn't do it.
Message Edited by davidhbrown on 04-21-2008 09:36 AM
[Edit 2]
Yes, indeed... Photoshop no longer complains. So, I wonder why this isn't in the software build or at least in the updates I've been faithfully downloading. But thanks again, Erik.
Message Edited by davidhbrown on 04-21-2008 09:47 AM

Bug - Color Management Photoshop 11 and OS X 10.6 Dual Monitors

I need to know if it's just me, or others are seeing this.
Color management doesn't seem to work properly on dual monitors (MBP + Dell 2408) with Photoshop 11/CS4 and 10.6.
Each of my monitors is independently calibrated and all other apps work fine. For reference Lightroom 2.4/Preview 5.0/FireFox 3.5.2 all render properly across both monitors. Under 10.5 Preview 4.X did not render properly across two monitors, I was so happy in 10.6 it finally did, but PS is WAY more important so I'm kinda bummed.
Anyway, this seems to only happen on the 2nd monitor. If I move the menu bar (Prefs/Displays/Arrangement) to the external monitor making it primary monitor then it works for that monitor, but no longer for the laptop display. Photoshop render images on the 2nd monitor way washed out, but normally on the primary.
Photoshop 11.0.1 worked fine for me on dual monitors under 10.5.

So if you've read the links above regarding the "default monitor" issue, people have suggested that a potential workaround is to go to System Preferences>Displays>Arrangement>drag the menu bar from the first diplay to the second
Essentially you make your secondary monitor the default display.
For me what this does to PS is that it now displays the matching colors to Lr in the secondary display (which is now the default display with the menu bar at the top), BUT! when I drag the PS window back into my MacBook display it appears OVERLY saturated...
Strangely Lr appears the same in both windows, AND MORE IMPORTANTLY with the same colors, saturation, brightness, just as it did before I made my Dell 2405FPW the default display. Basically, Lr hasn't shifted in color from display to display or even from display to display after making the secondary monitor my new default display. It has retained the same integrity of colors through all these changes.
Which begs the question, if Lr can't handle dual displays and always uses the color profile of the display it begins in (starts running in), then why does it never shift in color and still look exactly the same after I've made my Dell 2405FPW my primary display?
And actually, if you look really really carefully, Lr DOES produce a color shift between displays as you drag it from one screen to the next. It's extremely fast and happens pretty much as you get 0.5 to 1 inch of the window into the secondary display. It's subtle on my monitor too, which leads me to believe that it performs this color correction properly, quickly, and seamlessly.
What if, my Photoshop 10.0 (old version of CS3) is not registering and understanding the secondary display's color profile correctly? What if it really is PS's fault because everything else looks right? Maybe the issue I'm having is different from what others are experiencing, after all we're in 10.6 now and most of these issues were reported in 10.4 and 10.5? I should probably upgrade my PS CS3 and see what happens?
jb, what version of PS do you have?

VISTA color management and monitor calibration

Elements 7.0
VISTA Home Premium SP1
Nvidia 8600
Samsung SyncMaster 213T
Canon XSi
Multiple printers
Since getting new system with Vista, I haven't been able to get a print that looks like my screen. I tried Costco today and everything was much darker than I expected, but the reds were much richer. I read a lot about calibrating my monitor, but it is possible that there is more do it than that? Learning to adjust skin tone etc. in Photoshop, only to have the prints look bad is pretty frustrating.
Is the other option to invest in a quality printer, or go to a real lab instead of Costco?
Please use small words, since I'm not a professional.
Regards,
Michael

Michael, color management is certainly a difficult issue to perfect. My monitor is color calibrated but it doesn't guarantee that the prints will match. With the same image, I get different results from different printers and labs. I get the best results from labs in the local camera/photo shops, and the pricing for enlargements is still on par with like Snapfish or Kodak.
Check this setting in PSE: Edit>Color Settings...>Always Optimize for Printing. I would suggest color calibrating your monitor, then try different labs until you find the best results.

Accurate proof with inaccurate monitor? [color management question]

At the risk of sounding really dumb, here goes:
I have never had a true color managed workflow despite dabbling in it and even delving into custom profiling.
I don't want to shut the windows in my upstairs office and be dependent on unnatural light sources. I'm content to design knowing that what's on my monitor is not accurate.
But I do want to be able to print my own inkjet proofs and know that what I see on paper is at least 90% accurate to what I'll get off press. And I want to try my best to provide clients with PDF proofs that come as close as possible to press. (This last bit's probably a pipe dream given that the clients don't have calibrated monitors, but perhaps Acrobat 9's new Overprint Preview default settings will help somewhat?)
Is this realistic? Everything I know about color management starts with monitor calibration and I'm reluctant to take that step for fear of working in a cave-like environment.
Would love to hear thoughts from the community.

I'm still using my Sony Artisan, and dreading the day it fails to calibrate, but I'm definitely in the minority now. Adobe Gamma is useless for LCDs, and no longer ships, but the modern hardwares solutions are all supposed to be compatible. I suspect you'll get good results with a good monitor.
As far as being worthwhile, absolutely. My office uses North light and daylight balanced fluorescent lighting, so there isn't a harsh color change through the day. Things are probably most accurate at the time of day when the calibration was last done, but they are definitely better any time than they would be without it.
Peter

Color Management Confusion-Photoshop and monitors

Ok, so I am asking this question because I am literally at my wits end with this color management stuff. I have become so confused in the past few days that I can’t even think straight. Anyway, I am hoping you all can help me “understand” how it all work. Let me start with some background information (since I know it will probably be asked)
am a photographer, I utilize Lightroom 4 and CS3 (I know its old but I am planning on getting CS6 soon).
put my pictures on the web that I will assume will be viewed on multiple different browsers.
also will be sending my pictures to print at mpix or whcc. I may decide to print my own but haven’t really made that determination at this point.
have a mac book pro that I work from.
Ok, so I need to get a monitor to work with but I am unsure if I should just buy the thunderbolt mac monitor or get a wide gamut monitor. I have heard so many people say that the wide gamut monitors just messed them up. Also, I am bit confused on the nature of monitor profiles and how they work with photoshop and lightroom. I would assume the monitor applies a profile at all times? I also don’t understand the existence of the prophoto and wide gamut profiles for the mac monitors… they clearly are not wide-gamut monitors, so how do these profiles exist for them, and why would they be useful (if you set the profile to prophoto for example, it is all washed out as expected). Are these profiles “assigning” a profile to the color? I am assuming so because if they were converting them to just a standard rgb then you wouldn’t have the faded colors (correct?).
I just am so nervous that I am going to create something that looks great in Lightroom or Photoshop but that looks awful on the browser, or worse, on a different monitor (standard monitor) and I would have no idea that it looked bad. Or, if I send something to a printer only to get a mess back.
Also, please let me know if I correct in this. If I am in photoshop and I have an untagged image (send via a friend), and lets just say it is really a prophoto image (although my friend didn’t tell me) and I say to assign the prophoto profile (upon import to photoshop). If that truly is the correct profile, the image should look correct. Now consider two scenarios from there: 1) I embed that profile in the image, if I upload that to the web (I know to be cautious, you should always use srgb for web), if the person has a color managed browser, the image would properly appear, because the browser would recognize the profile (in this case “prophoto”) and convert it to whatever it needed to be. But, if it was not a color managed browser, I run the risk that the web browser will just assign a profile, which will wash the photo out most likely, correct? Ok… and scenario 2) after I get the image from my friend and assign the prophoto profile (since that is the correct profile the image was actually created in, although it was untagged when it was sent to me), the image will look correct… BUT, is photoshop displaying the prophoto profile, or is it converting to RGB for my viewing, or is my monitor converting it to rgb for my viewing? I guess I just don’t understand how the monitor fits into all of this. You HAVE to use your monitor to see your images, and since most monitors (including my current one are standard gamut) it would make sense that you actually can’t see anything in the prophoto profile, and you are truly looking at an srgb profile since that is all your monitor can display.
Oh ya, and what benefit is the color match rgb? It seems everyone speaks of the srgb, prophoto, and argb.. but never some of the others.. so maybe I am just lost. I would even appreciate a link to some tutorials if you think those would be helpful.
I am seriously confused.. I would really appreciate the help.

I am not surprised you are confused about colour management because its a confusing subject. Luckily you own a Mac so you can get to grips with what the problems that colour management solves using the "colorSync Utility" and you will find this in Applications >> Utilities >> colorSync Utility. If you own a windows computer then I am sorry but you will be out of luck here and you should know better when you buy your next computer!! I am not sure why Apple gave us this application but it is really useful and all will help you understand Color Management.
1. Launch Applications >> Utilities >> ColorSync Utility.
2. You will see a list of "Installed ColorSync Profiles". Choose Adobe RGB 1998 which I hope you have chosen in you camera preferences.
3.You will see a 3D representation of the Adobe 1998 Colour space. This represents all the colors this colour space will hold.
4. Top left hand corner you will see a little arrow pointing down next to "Lab Plot". Click on this and a drop down menu will appear.
Choose "Hold For Comparison"
5. Now somewhere in the "Installed ColorSync Profiles" list you will find the profile for you monitor. Choose this.
6. You will now see a new colour space inside the Adobe 1998 Colour space. If you have a cheap monitor the colour space will be small
inside the Adobe 1998 profile. This means that you monitor cannot show you all the colors that are missing.
7. Now choose a printer profile say, if you use them a profile for an Epson paper or any printer profile you have and you will see another profile in the Adobe 1998 box which shows you the only colors that your printer can print. If you like choose your monitor profile then hold for comparison then the printer profile and it will clearly show the mis match between you monitor and printer.
8. Now choose SRGB and this will show you what colors a person using an average Windows monitor can see, poor people.
So this is the problem, all devises can reproduce only a certain range of colors. The adobe 1998 profile does not show all the colors our eyes can see " choose Generic Lab" profile, then "hold for comparison" then Adobe 1998 and you will see Adobe 1998 is a small profile but is a good average of our collective colour vision.
So how to solve all these missing colour problems. Well if you think of each devise, including you camera as speaking a different language from you monitor and printer then it is easy to understand that you need some sort of translator so that they all know exactly what colour is being talked bout pixel by pixel in an image. This is held in the ICC profile, but an ICC profile has o do more than this.
Say you camera can produce a specific red we will call for demo purposes "001" and your monitor cannot produce it, how do you solve this? Well it is very easy to fool our eyes. Our eyes work by comparison so if the profile maps red "001 to the nearest red that the monitor can show and then proportionally remaps all other reds to fit within the reds the monitor can show us then we actually think we are seeing a full range of reds. The problem comes if we use the wrong profile for this. The red 001 could be re mapped anywhere and could be outside what the monitor can show. Say that happens but the printer can reproduce that red 001. We would see an image on the monitor with not many reds and when we printed it we would be shocked to find reds on the print. Worst, we would see an image on the monitor without reds and would correct for this and end up with a print with heavy reds and would not be able to work out why.
So to solve this we should:
1. use the correct camera profile when we are opening "Raw" files.
2. Make sure you have the correct monitor ICC profile selected in "System Preferences" >> Displays.
3. In photoshop we should make sure that the " Edit >> colour settings " are set to Adobe 1998 for RGB.
4. If you are going to print you own photo in Photoshop go to "View >> Proof Setup >> Custom" and a box will
open. Choose the profile of your printer and paper and choose "Perceptual" for rendering intent and then " OK". If you cannot find
a profile for you printer and paper go to the printer of paper manufactures web site and download the profiles and instal
them.
5. You can now adjust the colors and contrast and photoshop will simulate how the output devise will deal with this. If you
are using an outside printing house, they will supply you with their ICC profile to download so just follow the same procedure and
choose their ICC profile and and do you colour correction.
If you have a cheap monitor you will still not get a 100% result but you will get closer. You really need a monitor that you can calibrate
regularly because generic ICC profiles are just that. They are made from the results of many monitors and so are 90% or worse accurate.
If you want to see a flag ship monitor at work go to http://www.eizo.com/global/support/db/products/software/CG223W#tab02 and go
to the bottom of the page and download the Eizo Coloredge CG223W monitor profile, instal it on your mac then open then ope
Launch Applications >> Utilities >> ColorSync Utility choose Adobe 1998 the hold and compare it with the Eizo Coloredge CG223W
profile. This is not the top of the range Eizo monitors that we use but you will see that this monitor will show most of the missing colour you monitor does not. This is actually a good tip if you are buying a monitor. Download the monitors profile and see how good it really is.
The weak link still is printing. The colors you see in RGB on a back lit RGB screen are very hard to reproduce by CYMK inks on paper. Here you really should have a profile made for your printer and chosen paper. If you don't want the expense of buying a calibrator and doing it yourself, there are on line services that will do this for you.
One final point you must remember. If you are using soft proofing in Photoshop ( "View >> Proof Setup >> Custom" as explained above), when you print you MUST choose in "Colour Handling" "Photoshop Manages Colour" and in the next step when the printing box appears
you will see a drop down box with "Layout" in it. Click on this and choose "Colour Management and choose "Off No Colour Management". If you do not do this Photoshop will manage the colour then the printer will do it again and the print will be a disaster.
This is a starting point really. Colour management is difficult but just try to remember that you need a translator between each step in the process to make it work so you have to make sure the correct profiles are being used by you camera, the program you use for opening the Raw photo files (Please don't use jpegs straight from the camera, but thats another subject), the correct monitor profile and output profile. If you don't check these it is like chinese whispers and your picture will be printed in Double Dutch!!.
Hope that helps. I am on location In Italy for a couple of months so will be unlikely to be able to reply to any questions for a while. Will try to check back and see how you are getting on. Drop me a line at [email protected] if you have any questions. Good luck.
Paul Williams

Which monitor for accurate color management?

I shoot digital product and food photography using a mac powerbook. I've been using a LaCie CRT (yes, I said CRT) monitor for fine tuning my photos. It has finally started acting up so I'm ready for a new monitor. Can anyone recommend a dependable monitor that has color, brightness and contrast controls for use with establishing color managed profiles using eye1 macbeth (now that company is called something else which I can not remember at the moment). Obviously it needs to be accurate when it comes to color, brightness and contrast as well.
I ended up using my laptop screen this past shoot cause I had no other choice - but it made me really nervous.....
thanks -

First of all, my sincere condolences for your loss. Losing your last high-end CRT is a traumatic loss. I'm still hanging on to two (2) of them! (Knock on wood!)
Highly recommended monitors:
The NEC 2690 and 2490.
You want to use the SpectraView II software to conduct all the work internally and use GammaComp and ColorComp.
If Andrew Rodney chimes in with updated recommendations, listen to his advice.
Wo Tai Lao Le
我太老了

Help - color management issue, sunburns! (with a calibrated monitor)!

I love Lightroom and its workflow, its unlike anything of its kind. However, lately (since I first started using it) I've seen a problem related to color management on my computer (I believe) and hope someone out there can shed some light.
After importing JPG pictures into Lightroom and making modifications to them, I am getting *completely* different results once I export them (as sRGB, as I'll be sharing them via web). All of the pictures are coming much more saturated (for a lack of a better description).
Here is what I am getting (see brief descriptions below each pic): http://www.bachmannphoto.com/test/couple.html
I'd be very curious as to how they are showing up on your (calibrated/uncalibrated) screen(s), but the 1st and 3rd pics are showing up as 'realistic' on my PC, while the middle (exported from Lightroom) is showing up as too much saturation and even reddish push, as though the couple got hit with sunburns.
Another example of this result here: http://www.bachmannphoto.com/test/dog_chair.html. Though in this case, the picture in the middle actually looks better, it doesn't change the fact that I am getting very different output than what I see in Lightroom (or in photoshop without the embedded profile).
I am thinking this is a problem with color management settings on my PC. First guess would have been "monitor calibration"... but as mentioned in the title, I calibrated my monitors (I have two Dell 1905FPs... not great for accurate color representation, but they do the job) repeatedly, using Spyder2 Pro.
What pushes me to think this is the following (represented here http://www.bachmannphoto.com/test/couple_original.html ):
Before making any modifications to the imported sRGB picture - in other words, importing the picture straight from the camera memory card into Lightroom and then exporting it back (again, without making any modifications to it) - the pictures, both the original and the exported which still look the same and are kept sRGB, look completely different in Lightroom then if I was viewing them in a non-color managed software on my PC, such as the default windows picture viewer.
If my LCD panels are properly calibrated, should I not be more or less seeing the same image colors, whether I'm viewing them through windows, or through Lightroom (or Photoshop along with the embedded sRGB profile)? What gives??
Jesse
PS. I *more* than appreciate anyone taking time to respond to this post. I've been up for nights now trying to understand/fix this.
If it's any help, I have the different version (but original and exported) files here:
original file:
http://www.bachmannphoto.com/test/couple_original.JPG
Original file, imported into Lightroom and then exported back out w/o any modifications (sRGB): http://www.bachmannphoto.com/test/couple_lightroom-nomidification_exported_srgb.jpg
Original file, imported into Lightroom, MODIFIED and then exported back out (sRGB):
http://www.bachmannphoto.com/test/couple_lightroom-modified_exported_srgb.jpg

Exiftool reports the original contains the following EXIF tags:
Interoperability Index : R98 - DCF basic file (sRGB)
Interoperability Version : 0100
The nomidification_exported version does not have those lines, but contains the actual sRGB profile:
Profile CMM Type : Lino
Profile Version : 2.1.0
Profile Class : Display Device Profile
Color Space Data : RGB
Profile Connection Space : XYZ
Profile Date Time : 1998:02:09 06:49:00
Profile File Signature : acsp
Primary Platform : Microsoft Corporation
CMM Flags : Not Embedded, Independent
Device Manufacturer : IEC
Device Model : sRGB
Device Attributes : Reflective, Glossy, Positive, Color
Rendering Intent : Perceptual
Connection Space Illuminant : 0.9642 1 0.82491
Profile Creator : HP
Profile ID : 0
Profile Copyright : Copyright (c) 1998 Hewlett-Packard Company
Profile Description : sRGB IEC61966-2.1
Media White Point : 0.95045 1 1.08905
Media Black Point : 0 0 0
Red Matrix Column : 0.43607 0.22249 0.01392
Green Matrix Column : 0.38515 0.71687 0.09708
Blue Matrix Column : 0.14307 0.06061 0.7141
Device Mfg Desc : IEC http://www.iec.ch
Device Model Desc : IEC 61966-2.1 Default RGB colour space - sRGB
Viewing Cond Desc : Reference Viewing Condition in IEC61966-2.1
Viewing Cond Illuminant : 19.6445 20.3718 16.8089
Viewing Cond Surround : 3.92889 4.07439 3.36179
Viewing Cond Illuminant Type : D50
Luminance : 76.03647 80 87.12462
Measurement Observer : CIE 1931
Measurement Backing : 0 0 0
Measurement Geometry : Unknown (0)
Measurement Flare : 0.999 %
Measurement Illuminant : D65
Technology : Cathode Ray Tube Display
Red Tone Reproduction Curve : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)
Green Tone Reproduction Curve : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)
Blue Tone Reproduction Curve : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)
The modified_exported version likewise does not have the interoperability index tag but contains the actual sRGB profile:
Profile CMM Type : Lino
Profile Version : 2.1.0
Profile Class : Display Device Profile
Color Space Data : RGB
Profile Connection Space : XYZ
Profile Date Time : 1998:02:09 06:49:00
Profile File Signature : acsp
Primary Platform : Microsoft Corporation
CMM Flags : Not Embedded, Independent
Device Manufacturer : IEC
Device Model : sRGB
Device Attributes : Reflective, Glossy, Positive, Color
Rendering Intent : Perceptual
Connection Space Illuminant : 0.9642 1 0.82491
Profile Creator : HP
Profile ID : 0
Profile Copyright : Copyright (c) 1998 Hewlett-Packard Company
Profile Description : sRGB IEC61966-2.1
Media White Point : 0.95045 1 1.08905
Media Black Point : 0 0 0
Red Matrix Column : 0.43607 0.22249 0.01392
Green Matrix Column : 0.38515 0.71687 0.09708
Blue Matrix Column : 0.14307 0.06061 0.7141
Device Mfg Desc : IEC http://www.iec.ch
Device Model Desc : IEC 61966-2.1 Default RGB colour space - sRGB
Viewing Cond Desc : Reference Viewing Condition in IEC61966-2.1
Viewing Cond Illuminant : 19.6445 20.3718 16.8089
Viewing Cond Surround : 3.92889 4.07439 3.36179
Viewing Cond Illuminant Type : D50
Luminance : 76.03647 80 87.12462
Measurement Observer : CIE 1931
Measurement Backing : 0 0 0
Measurement Geometry : Unknown (0)
Measurement Flare : 0.999 %
Measurement Illuminant : D65
Technology : Cathode Ray Tube Display
Red Tone Reproduction Curve : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)
Green Tone Reproduction Curve : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)
Blue Tone Reproduction Curve : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)

Which color management monitor?

I shoot digital product and food photography using a mac powerbook. I've been using a LaCie CRT (yes, I said CRT) monitor for fine tuning my photos. It has finally started acting up so I'm ready for a new monitor. Can anyone recommend a dependable monitor that has color, brightness and contrast controls for use with establishing color managed profiles using eye1 macbeth (now that company is called something else which I can not remember at the moment). Obviously it needs to be accurate when it comes to color, brightness and contrast as well.
I ended up using my laptop screen this past shoot cause I had no other choice - but it made me really nervous.....
thanks -

As for the last sentence in my previous post, I thought we were in the Color Management forum, where Andrew Rodney is often active.
You may want to post there too:
http://forums.adobe.com/community/design_development/color_management#
This Photography forum is a graveyard these days.
Wo Tai Lao Le
我太老了

Best monitors for color management

Wanting to buy a monitor that will display the RGB COLOR profile

There are many wide gamut monitors on the market which will natively reproduce most of Adobe RGB (I assume that's what you mean by "RGB").
But I wouldn't recommend that unless you are fully aware of the implications. Such a monitor can only be used in a fully color managed environment, and it must be calibrated and profiled to perform as intended. Without full color management there's no way it will display correctly and it's just a waste.
Taken at face value (what is the "best"), your question only has one answer: Either an NEC PA series, or an Eizo CG/CX series. They are expensive, but worth it. If you're on a tight budget, go down in size, not quality. Panel size is the single biggest cost factor and a good 24" is way better than a mediocre 27" or 30" at the same price point.

Dual monitors, ICC profiles, color management...problems

Problem:
An image displayed in Safari and then pulled off the web into Photoshop shifts colors noticeably. This is esp. apparent in a side-by-side comparison on the same monitor with the Safari window open next to the Photoshop file window…they look very different.
Possible clues?
When I drag an image in Photoshop from one monitor to the other it shifts color after I release the mouse. In my two-monitor setup one is a large LCD (that's the "main" one) and the other is a MacBook Pro laptop. Even though they both have ICC profiles the laptop is slightly more saturated than the LCD…and Photoshop seems to mirror this but exaggerate it. For example: I pull the same image pulled off the web into two separate Photoshop files and then I display one on each screen: the one on the laptop will be /much/ more saturated than the one on the LCD.
In the end, if I have 4 windows open of the exact same image (2 on each screen: one in Photoshop and one in Safari) I am looking at 4 differently colored images - with the Photoshop images appearing even more exaggeratedly different than anything.
Obviously I understand that the two monitors will never look identical, but Photoshop seems to be imposing some extra color management on my files that makes it impossible to use with my previously very helpful dual-monitor setup.
Specs:
- Dual monitor setup: both are calibrated using an i1Display 2 from x-rite and have their own different profiles (this is new as of this week)
- Mac OS 10.6.6 (w/all current updates)
- Photoshop CS3 10.0.1 (w/all current updates) :: Edit>Color Settings : set to North America General Purpose 2
Help?

Just read this entire thread and wanted to leave a few comments and qualifications, first a couple of FACTS for all to consider.
1) I am not "new" to color management - in fact I am quite experienced in color management at a commercial level since the days of film back when getting "accurate color" was actually difficult. At this point it should be easy if the involved software is working correctly and impossible if it is not.
2) I have the top of the line color management solution provided by one of the top players in the color management market and am using it properly as verified by their technicians.
3) I am running 10.6 on my main computers. Mac Pro, 2 27inch iMac sandy bridge quad cores, and am using mac cinema displays (new ones) on all of them.
Now the rant - I have been trying to run down this or a similar and related issue for over a year. If you happen to be experiencing the same issue as I am, which I will summarize as trying to get 2 displays to display anywhere near the same color (even identical monitors) do not bother upgrading to CS5 as I am using CS5 as well as a bunch of other tools (Aperture, LR, etc, etc) - this is BROKEN and all I can get from any of the vendors involved is finger pointing from one to the other. Each of them wants to blame the other vendor for not doing something correctly but NONE of them can actually give me any details as to what exactly is the problem.
At this point in time I am holding the color management vendor I use to create the profiles responsible - the reason that I am doing that has nothing to do with what exactly the technical problem is. It s purely because they claim that the product is compatible with OS 10.6 and they claim that their software does EXACTLY what I want = mach two monitors. Now we all know that different monitors have slightly different gamuts but at the end of the day if two identical colors fall within the gamut of both monitors they should display the same. They don't. I have worked with my color management vendor for 6 months on this, they agree that it is not working properly, they blame apple but they cannot tell me exactly what the issue is.
If a company advertises and sells a product they claim to be compatible with a particular brand and version of hardware and software and they claim that it will manage color consistency across multiple monitors (even on differing machines) then I believe they are ultimately accountable for ensuring it actually works and resolving the issue - whatever it is, if it fails to function properly.
RB

Help - monitor calibration-color management disaster!

I'm hoping someone can help me with this problem that is driving me nuts. I'm trying to get my monitor calibrated so that what I see on the screen, in terms of color hue/tint/saturation and overall brightness, is what I get out of the printer when I print a photograph. Right now, what I see on my screen has no relationship to what comes out of my printer. In order to get one decent print, I'm having to print 3 or 4 test runs to adjust color, brightness, saturation and balance. It's ridiculously time-consuming and wasteful of paper and ink. There has to be a better way.
Here's my situation: I have Photoshop Elements 8, and am running it on Windows 7 OS. I have a ViewSonic flat screen monitor and an Epson r1900 printer that is dedicated to photographs only. I've bought and installed HueyPro to calibrate the monitor, but the results were not good. After installing HueyPro and running the calibration, the results it gave me are useless for both viewing the monitor and printing pictures. There is an obvious blue cast to the monitor screen image, and the oranges and reds are oversaturated and neon bright. The image on the screen looks like the dog's dinner. When I try to print with that screen profile, the pictures are overly dark, and the skin tones have a grayish and bluish cast that makes them look like the work of a beginning embalmer. I have PE8 set to always optimize for print and my camera is set to Adobe color management.
In order to adjust, I've turned the HueyPro calibration off. For every picture I want to print, I have to open it in RAW, select the Vivid or #3 calibration, max out the fill shadows and adjust the exposure. Then, I save it to Photoshop, where I use layer-screen to lighten the picture - sometimes twice. What I see on my screen is a washed out, faded image that looks horrible in every respect. But, when I print it, I get a good if not great picture with decent brightness and colors.
I'd rate my results as a C - maybe a B- on a very good day. That's after all of the jiggling and tweaking. Before, the results are an F, but only because that's the lowest score possible. This can't be the best that is possible. There has to be something out there that I'm not doing right, or something that I'm not doing at all. I'll take any and all help/advice.

Would that cause the disconnect between what I see on my screen and what the printer produces?
It should not.
Is either PE8 or the printer the better option, or does it matter?
I would experiment with both. As long as it is just one of them at a time. Good luck!
Juergen

Problem: Color Management/Save for Web on Wide Gamut Monitor

Hi,
I've got a problem with color management - I thought I understood it, but it seems as if didn't. So I'm trying to kindly ask for help.
I'm printing, and also trying to save an image for Web.
My setup:
- Win 7, CS 5
- Calibrated Wide Gamut Monitor (eizo cg223w)
- Photoshop set to ProPhoto (I don't want to start a discussion adobergb vs prophoto)
- Save for Web and Devices, Embed Color Profile, Convert to SRGB
- Viewing in Firefox 3.6 with Color Management enabled
Problem:
Image: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/311345/luchs-1024.jpg
If I compare the file in Firefox and Photoshop, the Firefox presentation is slightly more saturated - and I have no idea why.
I thought it should work with the above workflow.
Here is a screenshot where you can clearly see a difference (Note: the additional over-saturation here is caused by the wide gammut monitor when taking screenshots, in reality its not as dramatic as that): http://imgur.com/MFPbU but you can clearly see the difference.
I would be very very thankful for any pointers what I'm doing wrong in my workflow!
Thanks in advance,
Christoph

function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}
ch_bla wrote:
- Monitor calibrated
- Edit under ProPhoto RGB, 16 bit raw files
- Save for Web and Devices, Embed Color Profile, Convert to SRGB
Is this the preferred way?
It's a reasonable and correct way to do it, assuming you want to embed a profile in the images.
Since at least in some browsers and cases the colors selected within the HTML elements must match image colors, one can sometimes make a case for not embedding any profile at all, but that's really looking backwards. Browsers are moving forward toward not only managing colors in images but also in the HTML elements themselves. If you want your images accurately portrayed in as many places as possible you're doing the right thing looking forward.
Personally I embed the sRGB profile in my web images, as you are doing. And I check things primarily with IE and Safari.
Unlike you, I prefer to edit using the sRGB color space, but that's just personal preference. I find it more convenient to use File - Save As instead of File - Save For Web & Devices, and I get caught by gotchas less often this way. Your preference ensures you don't lose any colors at the extremes of the gamut while editing and it could easily be argued that that's better, depending on what image products you produce.
As for the article you mentioned, anyone who would set their preferred working space to Monitor RGB or use Proof Colors in normal editing is asking for trouble, and may not understand color management at all.
-Noel

2nd monitor color management: Ps v Lr

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