3 cam multi-cam, HDV or DV?

First, let me say I read this http://www.kenstone.net/fcphomepage/when_to_staynative.html and even emailed the author about the HDV->DVD workflow. His response was "If you're going to have no HD distribution now or any time in the future, then downconverting to SD on ingest is reasonable. I assume that anyone shooting in HD will be protecting for future and should edit in HD, before doing any current SD downconverts." To my defense, I always keep my tapes and the FCP Project file so I could media manage in the future, but HIGHLY doubt that for what I do I'll ever need to do that at least anytime soon. That being said, I will be doing a multi-camera shoot at the end of the month, two cameras over two days, but one camera on the second day will be strictly a backup, so I'll have 3 angles to mix together. I have two eSATA drives which is what I figure I'll need to end up using for the bandwidth. DV and HDV are the same bit-rate, but not the same processor intensive wise. I've read on here for the past several years the horrors of HDV as a codec, aka, the conforming process. I've also read about rendering in ProRes or even transcoding the footage.
Here's my question, for a 3 angle multicam going only to DVD, should I A. ingest and edit as HDV then export for DVD, B. ingest and edit as DV via the downconversion on my camera, or C. other.
The thing being recorded is a dance show, so I may need to split each dance into it's own multiclip if the time between dances is different each day, but that shouldn't affect my workflow. Really the only thing I edited entirely HDV was a high school's musical which took days to compress for DVD, so I'd rather not need to go through that excruciating process again.
Thanks to you all and any opinions?
-Brian

i have a AVCHD camera (sony HDR-SR1) and its just great! it records on a harddrive and that makes saving/ deleting footage so much easier. the touch screen interface is super simple and took seconds to get used to.
i havent anything to compare it to besides a realy old low res camera that records on a miniDV so i cant realy make any desitions for you but i can tell you this:
i realy enjoy my AVCHD, but MAKE SURE THAT IT IS COMPATIBLE WITH WHAT YOU NEED IT TO BE! before this summer i suffered greatly to be able to edit on Final cut express and i could not keep it at a HD quality
if ur using iMovie 08 then its all good though :P
but be rlyyyy carefull
only way u know itll work w/o doing any research is if it has a firewire
-Josh

Similar Messages

Four Camera Multi Cam Edit

Is it possible to have a four cam multicam edit on final cut pro on a macbook pro using a firewire 400 drive with the prores HQ codec?

I chose that codec as that's the one I've seen editors at work use.
But do they or you know why you are making that choice. That's what I'm trying to emphasize. Screenwriters choose specific words to convey what the story is about. Directors interpret the script into a visual story through camera lens, framing, depth of field etc. Editors make creative choices based on emotion and performance.
These are all choices for a specific reason to tell a story. A wide shot says something different about a story than a close up. If ProRes HQ is wide shot and ProRes LT is a close up. They have different meanings.
It's all a learning experience.
This is a learning experience for all of us. Steven Spielberg is still learning.
I hope this will help you look more closely at the choices you make. Good Luck on your journey!

How to add newly imported audio - as a new storyline/angle to existing multi cam Project??

I have a 6 camera multi cam Music Video Project I have been working on in depth for 5 days. The "band" has sent me a new & improved .wav file to replace the audio I have been working with on one "song". I have imported it into the event, cannot figure out how to add it as a new angle (that I will manually sync on the timeline) and then make it the active audio monitor angle. I see ways to "connect it" but not how to have it appear in the 6up display & on its own story/time line in the precision editor. This is like reinventing the wheel. I am losing mu mind. Please help?
Thanks

Man oh man. I need to take a break & eat somthing, how embarassing. I swear I knew that but had an attack of hysterical blindness or... the disclose arrow>add new... Thank You Tom for your quick & thouriough reply. Have a swell holiday.

Multi-Camera Editing

Primiere Pro CS4 Creative Suite
Hi, Thanx in advance for your help.
We did a multi-camera shoot of a band. We ran through the set twice with 4 cameras, thats a total of 8 tracks. The 2nd run through for the stationary camera on the drummer can be dropped to reduce the count to 7. Hopefully the timing on the first and second set will the same. It should be close as these guys are tight.
I'm hoping some seasoned Premiere user can give me some pointers on how to best do a 7 camera Multi-Camera edit.
I was thinking I would do each 4 camera shoot as a multi-camera edit and then, assuming they synch, take the output from each set and do them as a two "camera" multi-camera edit.
Is there a better way?
Of course, if the don't synch...I try not to think about that.
Thanx,
Mel

Assuming all cameras were on continuous roll nd therefore in synch.....I think I would aproach it like this:
The band and the director probably know which of the two performances (takes) were the best.
That one I would edit multicam.
Then I would look at each of the rolls from the other take and cherry pick the shots.
An NLE, like PPRO ,can work a bit like a vision switcher in the sense (and I am sure you know this) that the Upper Track is dominant over under lying tracks. You can use this to your advantage as you cherry pick your other takes. eg find a section you might like to use then toggle the track on/off to see where it fits into the multicam edited sequence.

Multi-Camera Music Video

Hi, Thanx in advance for your help.
We did a multi-camera shoot of a band. We ran through the set twice with 4 cameras, thats a total of 8 tracks. The 2nd run through for the stationary camera on the drummer can be dropped to reduce the count to 7. Hopefully the timing on the first and second set will the same. It should be close as these guys are tight.
I'm hoping some seasoned Premiere user can give me some pointers on how to best do a 7 camera Multi-Camera edit.
I was thinking I would do each 4 camera shoot as a multi-camera edit and then, assuming they synch, take the output from each set and do them as a two "camera" multi-camera edit.
Is there a better way?
Of course, if the don't synch...I try not to think about that.
Thanx,
Mel

Mel,
What version of Pr are you using. Not sure that Multi-camera was added until PrPro. I've got it in PrPro 2.0, and it may have been around from PrPro 1.0. I just do not know about earlier versions of Pr.
If you are using PrPro, then you'll want to post HERE, as this forum is for Premiere, the precursor of PrPro. You'll get a lot more traffic and help in the PrPro forum.
Good luck,
Hunt

Multi Camera Quirk

I have just been editing with a 4 camera multi cam sequence. I made some edits (eg from Camera 1 to Camera 4) which I ultimately did not like. Therefore, I went back to my previous Camera 1 edit, pressed play and then using the number pad cut to the preferred choice of camera 3 (and not camera 4 as before) . Normally what would have happened in previous versions would be that the selected camera, in this case camera 3 would then be highlighted in the multicam window and carry on being recorded until I changed cameras. Now what I find is happening is that when I have selected camera 3, it will automatically change back to camera 4 - which was the previous unwanted edit. This only occurs when I am in recording mode in the multicam window - that is, when I have finished recording, then the timeline will then show the correct camera. Anybody else seen this?
Quad Core
Nvidia geforce 8600 GT
Vista Ultimate Service Pack 2

No, even then it's more work. To change cameras for any cut section, just right click on the clip.
Also a good technique, assuming you know which camera you want to change to. But if you need to redo the multi-camera review - seeing the 3 or 4 cameras at once, being able to go back to that view is the ticket.
I'm still in CS3, so I just do it when I need to - which is a small percentage of the edits.

Audio targeting in Multi Camera edits Premiere 5.5

I am editing 6 days worth of a 3 camera multi camera set up from a seminar I shot last month. I am using Premiere Pro 5.5.
I shot the class with the speaker mic'ed with 2 wireless lapel mics: one mic going into Cam 3 left channel, and one going into Cam 2 right channel; the open channel on both catching ambient audio via camera mics. The thought here was I would have some redundancy in the event one mic popped out due to battery issues, or interference, and still have an audio channel to sync to with PluralEyes.
Camera 1 was a wide shot of the front of room, and had 4 choir mics directed at the audience (to pick up questions and such) and one shotgun focusing on the front where the speaker stood (again, for redundancy) running into a mixer, and then into Cam 1 right and left channels.
In Premiere, I line up all the video shots with PluralEyes (or manually) and then nest that sequence into a new multi cam sequence and begin editing.
When nesting the video and audio into a new sequence and turning multicamera editing on, I get the one track of nested video, and the one track of audio.
My issue is how to get the cleaner audio of the instructor, which is on either CAM 2 or 3 (with the lapel mics), onto the track of CAM 1, which is the only track I am able to hear when doing multi cam edits. If I simply copy the instructor audio onto track 1 in the 'source' sequence, I lose the audience replies and sound. But I don't know how to mix other channels onto the main track of the parent sequence (source).
I have worked around this by copying the audio from track 2 or 3 onto track 1 in the original (not nested) sequence and that has worked and I could keep on editing. But now, I need to do a group discussion portion, and need the audio from track 1 as well as the others and I am not sure how to mix them into the main audio track that the multicam process requires.
I hope I am clear in my explanation. In essence, how do you get a mix of tracks to show up onto track 1, the only audio track that seems to be able to be read by the multicam feature in Premiere 5.5?
Many thanks!!
Mark

Since I didn't want to ask a stupid question, I have been trying to do what
you suggested below, but I am not meeting with success (which means I am
doing it wrong :o)
I have made my edits in the multi Camera sequence I created and used the
Multi Cam "enabled" setting (labeled this sequence "Multi"), and then
placed the original multiple camera and tracks sequence (labeled
'source' which was first lined up and synced) into the video 2 track in the
multi cam sequence.
So now I have 2 tracks of the original "Source" sequence in the "multi"
sequence: one cut into shots and one uncut from the original sequence.
But, only the audio is coming in from the first track, even though the
tracks are all activated in the original sequence (nothing muted).
I know I am close, but not sure what I am doing wrong, and the audio from
the tracks is important for the final product.
Thanks again!

Premiere becomes completely unresponsive during multi-cam preview

While editing a 5 camera multi-cam project, Premiere completely locks me out during playback of the project. It's like my user interface just completely died. The project plays and nothing I do will stop it. Autosaves do not occur and I am forced to wait an hour for the whole timeline to play (haven't waited to see if I get control even after then) or 'end task' to kill the Premiere application, thus losing all my work up until the last save. I have had moments where Premiere locked my out for a few seconds, but I always managed to eventually get control. The last 2 times I never got control back.
I'm running the latest version of Premiere CC on Windows 8.1.
Any help in how to interrupt Premiere's coma in this situation would be greatly appreciated. Really sucks doing the same work 3+ times over.
Michael

i3770k 16gb RAM.... I don't think that's the problem.
I called Adobe Tech Support and they located the problem. I had the wrong sequence settings, which had the wrong preview format (codec). Apparently, the best way to create a sequence with a multi-cam track is to right-click on the multi-cam clip and select 'create sequence". This way Premiere chooses the optimal preview format for the video clip types it contains. And this is the only way to get Premiere to optimally handle multi-cam clips with various different video formats properly, such as mine.
I don't understand why one even has to worry about this sort of thing. Why shouldn't Premiere ALWAYS choose the optimal playback format? Coming from other editors I always found it really weird in Premiere that I had to select a sequence preset that was related to the video format I was editing. For one thing, many projects have mixed format types so this system that Premiere employs seems flawed and outdated.
Anyways, eventhough Premiere still drops a few frames during playback of my five 1080p streams, I can now edit and watch the multi-cam preview without fear of being completely locked out and losing control of Premiere.

Multi-camera AVCHD editing workflow in Premiere CS4

I have a client project that has me wondering what workflow to use and I someone on this forum probably has the expertise to know the right solution. My requirements...
1. Client is recording a scene using 4 cameras at once, like a live TV show is shot, all AVCHD footage, 1920x1080px 17mbs, square pixels.
2. I must playback in Premiere the 4 video streams in real time and choose one camera to output, like a director would switch a live TV show. So, all 4 streams are playing in Premiere's multiple-camera editing windows. Each show I'm editing is about 1 hour long. The advantage of multi-camera editing of course is I can play all 4 cameras at once and live switch between them in Premiere to arrive at a 1 hour show in 1 hour of editing time.
3. Until I can upgrade my hardware that can possibly handle 4 streams of AVCHD, I'm stuck needing a workflow to convert the original AVCHD to some lowres format, edit those offline low res copies to get my edit decision list, and then reconnect the online HDV AVCHD clips to export through Media Encoder for a final production. My output format is Flash F4V 640x360 px square pixels for Internet playback.
4. Hardware: I'm running Windows 7 RC using CS4 Premiere 4.1, 4gb RAM, 2.4ghz dual-core processor with 64mb Intel turbo boost on a notebook PC. I do have 4 hard drives to hold each camera's footage on its own drive, and a fifth drive to ouput the edited version to, in addition to a drive to hold my OS and Premiere. The external drives are connected via eSATA to the notebook.
Question 1: what do you suggest as the lowres format I should convert my AVCHD footage to for multi-camera playback/editing in Premiere?
Question 2: do you think it's even possible to buy a desktop PC that can handle playback of 4 multicam AVCHD native format files in Premiere in real time? I'm concerned this may be too much for even the most powerful systems, and I would need to resort to editing lowres footage even with the most powerful desktop. As you know, decompressing one or two AVCHD streams is taxing to a PC so 4 at once is a challenge.
Question 3: an alternative workflow would be to feed live video out of the HDMI connectors on the cameras into four HDMI capture cards (Intensity Blackmagic) and capture uncompressed HDV bypassing AVCHD compression altogether, but the disk space required would be substantial. Does this make sense? I've even considered feeding those 4 HDMI feeds into a video switcher between the cameras and PCs but the cheapest solution I can find that can provide genlock (frame sync) between the 4 cameras for clean glitch-free switching is quite expensive, thousands of dollars invested.

I must playback in Premiere the 4 video streams in real time
Good luck with that. Many folks have trouble with even one stream.
edit those offline low res copies to get my edit decision list
I'm not sure offline editing with AVCHD will be possible because of the folder structure. You may not be able to 'replace' the lower res copies with AVCHD.
My output format is Flash F4V 640x360 px square pixels for Internet playback.
Oh, man. Shooting HD of any flavor is just overkill that adds unnecessary work to the process. Have your client shoot in DV.

Multi Camera in CS5.5 What is wrong?

For years I have been making usually two multi camera edits for dance recitals. I usually export the edited files
in the same format to another HD on my computer.
I then go to that new directory and start a new project with the edited files. Import the files into the new project
and line them up on the timeline.
This year I have some files that have stuck with only Camera Two edits or sometimes Camera Two sound. If I go back
to the original edit and make another file with the same timeline and a different name it works. My only hunch is that
it has something to do with Indexing and Conforming when I start the new project with the edited files.
Any suggestions?

My workflow is:
1. Import all footage (HDV)
2. Place all footage on timeline, syncing both cameras (this is for an entire show, 2 hours average duration) If I have any dropouts I find them where the audio of both tracks do not line up, so I make adjustments to the track that has the dropout and re-sync from that point on. If your second/alternative shot will not cover the dropout of the other camera, re import just the dropout section.
3. Nest into new sequence and do multicam edit
4. Close multicam and go back into the nested sequence and perform the fine edits, add titles and credits, cut out dead space, etc...
5. Export that sequence for DVD/Blu-Ray production.
For audio, I usually copy the audio from the first sequence (original) and paste it to the nested sequence after the multicam edit. Then I can choose which track of audio to use as I go, or make adjustments, etc...
I've never had any issues with cuts not holding, or audio being incorrect, with this workflow.

Multi Camera Editing with Matrox CODEC ( VS4 ) Card

Hello All.
Setup
I am recording 4 inputs from the Matrox VS4 via Wirecast 4.2 and also tried 5.0
- 1080i @ 100Mbps
- All the video footage play perfectly with no problems what so ever
- I Have installed the Matrox VFW Software Codecs of a system which DOES NOT have the VS4 card
- I can edit 1 video with NO PROBLEM.
Problem
- Using Adobe Premiere 7.1 CC with multi camera editing, the footage is jittery after a few seconds.
- Using Adobe Premiere CS 6.0 with multi camera editing, the footage is jittery after a few seconds.
- I have tried with 2 cameras up to 4 cameras and I get the same problem.#
Other Test
- I have tried 12 x videos which are MP4 in multi camera editing with NO PROBLEMS!!!
- I am using 4 x 128GB SSD in RAID 0 ( 1450 MB/s) - Through put is not an issue.
- I have also reduced the MB/s on the ISO capture of 50MB/s
This is the CODEC you need to have installed on your computer in order to edit the view/edit the videos recorded by the Matrox VS4:
http://www.matrox.com/video/en/support/windows/vfw_software_codecs/downloads/softwares/ver sion1.0/
The Matrox Video for Windows (VFW) software codecs let you render and play back Matrox .avi files in your VFW programs without having Matrox video hardware installed. This version provides codecs that were previously available only on systems that have particular Matrox video hardware, such as Matrox Axio. This includes the Matrox DVCPRO HD codec, and "+ Alpha" versions of the Matrox uncompressed and MPEG-2 I-frame codecs. As well, the Matrox VFW MPEG-2 I-frame HD codec now lets you render and play back Matrox MPEG-2 I-frame .avi files in all HD formats (720p, 1440x1080i/p, and full-size 1080i/p).
The following VFW software codecs are provided for use on 32-bit and 64-bit Windows operating systems:
Matrox DV/DVCAM
Matrox DVCPRO
Matrox DVCPRO50
Matrox DVCPRO HD
Matrox MPEG-2 I-frame in SD and HD resolutions, with or without alpha
Matrox Uncompressed in SD and HD resolutions, with or without alpha
Matrox Offline HD
Matrox M-JPEG and HDV (playback only)
Is this an issue that is present the Premier 7.1 CC or the CODEC or even both?
Thank you all.

Hello,
Please send me an email at;
[email protected]
I'll work with you to address your multicam performance issue with your VS4
Regards
W@

ProRes Multi-cam editing playback choppy?

First project with HD footage.
I have four angles of HDV footage that I imported as ProRes and now I am trying to edit them with multi cam editor and it is playing very choppy.
Should I just of imported as HDV and edited it as HDV with a ProRes render setting?

Yes. This is why.
ProRes 1080i at 29.97 generates ~21MB/s load.
Individual good quality SATA drives should generate ~100MB/s + throughput when empty, but as they fill up, they slow down AND, when the drive heads are dancing all over the platters looking for multiple files, the throughput will drop. By having the files coming off of multiple drives, each individual drive is taxed less. I have no idea how many clips you are trying to run but you might get this to work.
x
fwiw - a good quality esata RAID like the Caldigit HDOne (8 drives) can bench around 300 MB/s in a RAID 0 configuration if I remember correctly. I had one to test for a while but didn't write down the numbers it generated. I do remember I had it running 16 streams of DVCProHD 720p24 without any real issues.

Multi-camera shoot.. having import issues, could use some work flow advice

Okay, so I am doing some multi camera shoots. I have 2 Canon HV20's and 1 Canon HG10. The HV20's are being captured at HDV 1080i setting (1440x1080), and the HG10 is being logged and transferred coming in at it's different setting, (can't remember off hand what it is)
I am syncing these 3 with "in points", however becasue the HG10 is a different format I can not use it to do a Multiclip with, I have been using QT to convert it to HDV 1080i, but a 60 minute record seesion is taking 7 hours for the convert.
is there an easier way to get the AVCHD data from the HG10 to match the captured info from the HV20 tapes, or os there a setting to tell FCP that the multiclip doesn't need to use the same settings?
Or does someone have a better workflow I could use...?? I understand that just buying anothe HV20 would solve the problem, but I can't afford that right now, so I'm etiehr stuck only shooting with 2 cameras or wasting the time of converting to use the 3rd different format camera..
I could use some help or advice, thanks
also, I haven't been able to set my capture in's and out's and do a batch capture with the HV20's... I keep having to "capture now" to get the footage, I always get an error as soon as I tell the batch capture to start
Message was edited by: Chris Fritsche

understand that just buying anothe HV20 would solve the problem, but I can't afford that right now,
so I'm etiehr stuck only shooting with 2 cameras or wasting the time of converting to use the 3rd
different format camera..< </div>
The simple most direct route is to dub (or convert) your odd camera to the base camera's format (or convert everything to a single format). It's not a waste of time at all; simple and immediate and solves everything.
bogiesan

Multi Cam-2 different cams, 1 audio: Use many gigs on drive?

Hi
I did a number of interviews using 2 cameras (DSLR & HDV) and the Zoom H4n.
For each interview I'm thinking I'll create multi cam 'clips' from the 2 cams and 1 separate audio clip.
What happens? Will this involve much transcoding of the video? Will it use many gigs on the drive?
If so, would synchronizing the clips be a better way to go, and is there a method to switch between cameras that way?
Btw, I made my first and there seems to be beau-coup activity going on on my MBP and the drive. Hence these questions.
best
elmer

Thanks for the reply!
Yes, all my media are on an external drive. I see it created optimized media of the dslr clip. It appears optimizing of the 29-minute clip created a file of around 40gigs. I don't think I can use multi-cam on this project unless I proxy it.
How are optimized or proxy files named or designated so as to be different than regular files?
Any way to trash the optimized file? Or proxy files if so desired? Are proxy files 1/2 or 1/8 of original file?
Just curiously, can regular and proxy material coexist in the same project?

Rapid Tapeless Multi-camera workflow with OnLocation

I am wondering whether anyone is using OnLocation for rapid (read almost instant) tapeless workflow.
What I would like to do is:
1 - Use 4 Sony V1U HDV cameras and ISO record all of them as HDV files.
2 - Record the ISO on four separate laptops running OnLocation via a Firewire feed from each camera.
3 - Store the clips (as they are being recorded) onto four external eSATA drives (one for each camera/laptop combo)
4 - After 90 minute recording is complete, move the four external eSATA drives to a central workstation running CS4 and equipped with 4 eSATA ports.
5 - Then WITHOUT copying the files from the external drives, immediately start editing a multi-cam session.
Can I do this?
Are there any "gotcha's?"
What kind of of pre-processing of the clips is necessary if any? (audio or video "conforming"?)
Does timecode stay with the files?
How long after I mount the drives might I be ready to start editing? 1 minute? 5 minutes 1 hour or more?
I need to do a FAST turnaround, but cannot do a live switch.......
Thanks!
Mike Fayette

That actually sounds pretty cool. The only question I'd maybe ask is what is cheaper: 4 laptops with onlocation, or 4 solid state recording devices for your cameras (like Convergent's little one which records from the HD-SDI port of the camera)?
If you need the functionality of OL, like scopes and what not, then sure it sounds like it's the way to go. Just sayin there may be alternatives?
http://www.convergent-design.com/CD_Products_nanoFlash.htm
But I saw a handful of others along this line at NAB last year.
MP

3 cam multi-cam, HDV or DV?

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