4 Point Edits - Typo or Bug?

I have been working with 4 point edits and everything is going well, but I found one action that does not work according to the PPRO CS5 Help documents. Listed below my post are the steps to make a four-point edit from the PPRO Help documents. The second bullet under step six states that you can perform an insert edit and only shift the clips on the target track by holding down the Alt button and clicking the Insert button. I have found that it does not work as described. Clips that are located on tracks other than the target track are shifted as well. The only way that I can perform a 4-point insert edit and only shift the clips on the target track is to turn off the sync lock for all tracks.
I wonder if the instructions for a four-point edite have not been updated since Sync Lock was introduced or is this a bug? Can someone else confirm if the action listed in the second bullet for step six works or not?
Thanks.
Kevin Snyder
Make a four-point edit
In a Project panel, double-click a clip to open it in the Source Monitor.
Click the headers of the tracks in a Timeline panel into which you want to add the clip to target them.
In the Timeline, drag the source track indicators to the headers of the tracks into which you want the clip components to fall.
Using the Source Monitor, mark an In point and an Out point for the source clip.
In the Program Monitor, mark an In point and an Out point in the sequence.
in the Source Monitor, do one of the following:
To perform an insert edit, click the Insert button
To perform an insert edit and shift clips in target tracks only, Alt-click (Windows) or Option-click (Mac OS) the Insert button .
To perform an overlay edit, click the Overlay button .

Thank you Todd. I appreciate it. Next time I will leave a comment in the help document. I wasn't sure if it would be seen there.
It would be great if Alt could be used as a modifier key to override the targeted tracks and sync lock. I have seen references to using the Alt key in older threads on the internet, but the dates of the threads lead me to believe that the users may have been editing in CS4, which I never had installed so I don't know if using Alt worked as described in the help documents.
Kevin

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No three point edit with merged clips in Premiere Pro CC 7.2?

Hello Premiere Folk,
I've recently, as of last night, updated to Premiere Pro CC 7.2. I'm currently cutting a feature using merged 5K red raw clips. We were expereicning some weird things but were able to work around them. The update fixed to major problems we were having;
1. Bloating projects going from 808kb to 5mb for no reason.
2. Not being able to perform a match frame on merged clips.
The update fixed these issues, but don't throw on your party hats just yet. Within this update a fuction CRUCIAL to any editor has been taken away after you've performed a merged clip function... THE EDIT! Any time I make an in and out point in my source with a merged clip and an in and out in my timeline and try to do an insert edit via a hotkey, it just edits the entire clip in the timeline starting with a radnom in point! I was able to set an in and out in my source and just edit into the timeline but even that function has been taken away. Adobe please fix this! Yes the match frame with a merged clip works but dont take away editing basics!

This bug is NOT FULLY FIXED. I'm on a tight deadline so i'm not looking very hard online to see if i'm alone - so please forgive me for just posting here...
I'm using CC7.2.1 it's 1/21... very grateful that match frame FINALLY works on merged clips, but, again, this insert/overwrite bug is only PARTIALLY FIXED.
Insert/overwrite with merged clips on 3-point edit now works, but ONLY when cutting in BOTH merged video+audio... if you're just trying to cut in the audio from a merged clip using a 3-point/4-point edit via hotkey, it's a no-go.
I, for example, needed to re-cut in audio under some video with effects on it. So, I unpatched the video source completely and patched source audio tracks 1-4 to the appropriate sequence tracks. Upon hitting insert or overwrite multiple times, nothing responds. The only way to cut anything in from the source (merged clip) was to patch the source video back into the timeline on an unused video track, then cut ALL the tracks from the source in, I then had to delete the video track re-link the now free audio to the original video. Not a big deal, but annoying enough & waste of precious time on tight deadline.
So, yeah, I have a workaround but is still not appropriate to have a core function not work properly. Especially when I'm working with a very complicated timeline.
That said, thanks for keeping on top of our gripes, Mark.

Three Point Edit not working correctly :(

Hi there,
first of all I'd like to say thank you Adobe for listening to your users. And I hope this one gets noticed right away....:
It appears that 3 point editing ist not working correctly.
Right now I'm editing a video and I heavily rely on 3 point editing.
I have quite a lot XDCAM EX 50i clips which are all in one sequence that is used as source.
Coming from tape workflows I really don't like clicking clip after clip...I need to edit
Now fortunately one can choose to either have a sequence as source edited in nested or as individual tracks. Very nice!
Very bad is that 3 point editing only works when "nested" is activated. Again, very bad!
As soon as I want to use my source sequence with its individual tracks and hit (.) or (,) just nothing happens. Hmpf!
Come on guys, that is essential editing stuff, not fancy speech detection blabla...sorry but this is mega-annoying right now....
It says "Pro" right after "Premiere". So please make it pro! Professionals need ROCK SOLID essential functions.
Make us editors happy having switched from Avid/FCP etc.
Make essential stuff rock solid. That's what makes an app "pro".
Cheers and please mind my harsh words. Just a little upset right now. (I know that's not pro either )

bmfm_ wrote:
I have quite a lot XDCAM EX 50i clips which are all in one sequence that is used as source.
Now fortunately one can choose to either have a sequence as source edited in nested or as individual tracks. Very nice!
Very bad is that 3 point editing only works when "nested" is activated. Again, very bad!
Hi bmfm,
I think I know what's going on. The behavior you describe happens when you try to edit back into your original sequence. Can try making a new sequence to cut your selects into? See the page in help for details: http://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/using/edit-sequences-loaded-source-monitor.html
Thanks,
Kevin

THree point edit but with 4 video timelines

I have 4 video time lines. Video line 3 has a gap i want to fill with a clip using a 3 point edit. I put the v1 selector on V3, No mater what instructions i follow from the manual I cannot get the clip into the space on track 3. WHen i do a mark clip instead of marking the time line for in and out points , the background clips that are actually locked from changes are marked. Nothing shows up as marked on the timeline it self - only the canvas. Every time i try to drag the new clip in i see a solid red line show up underneath the numbers on the timeline and it looks like stuff is splattered everywhere. THe only thing i find that is even close to working is fit to fill
BUT in doing the fit to fill -- surprise surprise -- a 70 second clip is squoze down to fit into a 15 second space - so that really doesn't help me.
I am lost about how a 3 point edit should actually work in that case. any help would be appreciated.

Set V3 as the target edit track as you've done. Put the playhead over the gap on V3. Option click the autoselect button on V3. That should autoselect that track and deselect the other tracks. Option click the autoselect button on the corresponding audio track that has a gap. Press the X key. This should mark the gap with In and Out points. Do an overwrite edit to fill the gap.
If the autoselect buttons don't work because you have audio on the corresponding audio track that doesn't match the gap, you can manually place the I/O. Use the up arrow key to go to the beginning of the gap. Press I. Use the down arrow key and then the left arrow key and then press O to mark the out point at the end of the gap.

Three-Point Edit Missing Frames

Hello,
So I am exerpiance a very stange problem, with a very simple operation, and I have no idea why this is happening. I am using a three-point eidt to cover some heavy breaths in a voice over. I have 20 seconds or so of roomtone loaded into my source viewer. The roomtone has an in point a few frames in (to leave room for a transition) and no out point. On my timeline, I create an in and out point, around the audio I want to cover. The gap I am covering is usually only a few frames, a quick inhale, or weird mouth noise. I have done this, many times no problem.
Today, everytime I overwite to replace the audio on the timeline, the clip is a few frames short of my selection. So, for example, I have a 14 frame selection in my timeline. When I overwrite, PP is only placing 11 frames from my roomtone clip. Again, roomtone is over 20 seconds, loading in the source viewer with only an in point. Timeline as both in and out point, so it's a proper three point edit setup, and the is way more then enough material to cover the selection.
If I have to roll out every clip I cover, it's going to be a long day, so any help would be apperciated. I am using Premeire Pro CC (Version 7.2.1) on a Mac (OS X 10.9.1). I have uses these exact versions before, and not had this issue.
Thanks,
J

This has been a challengeing little problem for me. Each time I think I have norrowed it down it crops back up. That being said I have come up with a work around, that is working consistently. I thought I would share it, incase someone else has the same problem.
The room tone clip I use has video, but normally, don't patch it to the timeline. I noticed that when I did patch the video in, the correct number of frames where placed on the timeline. So I added an extra track above all the others, turned visibility for that track off, and patch the video there. When I was done with that sequence, I simply deleted the extra track.
Still not as good as an actual fix, but much less time consuming then having to adjust each edit.

LabVIEW 8.2 Multicolumn Listbox Edit Cell Event Bug

I've observed an odd behavior with the "Edit Cell?" event with multicolumn listboxes. If the "Edit Position" is set when clicking on the listbox and the "Edit Cell?" event is trapped with discard set to false, when clicking outside of the list box, previous edits are lost. I have attached a simple example of this bug.
Attachments:
Listbox Edit Cell Event Bug.vi ‏19 KB

Thank you for the update Fran.
I lost my bet and you earned your stars.
So it sounds like the issue was the multiple event structures alone.
I just like to keep track of what the final fixes are.
Ben
Message Edited by Ben on 12-06-2006 04:50 PM
Ben Rayner
I am currently active on.. MainStream Preppers
Rayner's Ridge is under construction

What Exactly Is A 3 Point Edit?

Terminology is not one of my stronger points.
For years I have been reading about "3 point editing" in books and on the forums but it has simply gone straight in and straight out!
It certainly sounded a grandiose and complex procedure to me but I never got round to clarifying exactly what it was.
Yesterday, I once again heard it mentioned when my concentration was slipping and later decided that today was the day for final clarification.
Looking again through Tom's and Lisa's various books, it appeared that it simply meant inserting In and Out points in the Viewer and dragging the clip to the Timeline either directly or via the Canvas overlays, something which I have been doing for years.
Is this the case? Is it that simple?

This is one of those things that is so easy to explain if I were sitting next to you at the editor, but so difficult to explain via a post, but here goes:
You can successfully edit in FC if you do *any 3* of the following four:
Set an In point on the Source Footage
Set an Out point on the Source Footage
Set an In point on the Timeline
Set an Out point on the Timeline
So . . . .
If I mark an In and an Out on my Timeline, I can load a clip in the viewer and just mark the Out point - where I want that source clip to end - and when I click the overwrite button, FC will line up the out from the source with the out on the timeline and fill with material from the source back to the in on the timeline automatically.
OR
If I load an clip into the viewer, and know where I want it to start and stop, I can mark the in and out point on the viewer, and then mark an In on the timeline and when I click overwrite, the FC will line up the two in points and write material from the source until the outpoint set in the viewer.
3 of the 4 points are all that is required to make a successful edit.
When NLE's first came on market, this feature was not there - so doing the following would require workarounds:
Let's say you have a music track on the timeline, and mark an in on the downbeat of measure 16 and want the edit to carry to where the music climaxes on measure 22. You mark your out at the end of measure 22. Now you load up your source footage of a football game, and you want the ball to land in the net right before the end of measure 22. You don't care where you pick up the play action, as long as the football hits the net right before your out on the timeline. Then you can set your out on the source footage exactly where you want it, and now you have 3 points set - the in and out on the timeline, and the out on the source footage, so when you overwrite it to the timeline, it will place the end of the source scene where you wanted and fill backwards to the in point back on measure 16.
MtD

[svn:fx-trunk] 11472: ASDoc edits for l10n bug fixes

Revision: 11472
Author:   [email protected]
Date:     2009-11-05 11:21:49 -0800 (Thu, 05 Nov 2009)
Log Message:
ASDoc edits for l10n bug fixes
Modified Paths:
    flex/sdk/trunk/frameworks/projects/framework/src/mx/controls/Image.as
    flex/sdk/trunk/frameworks/projects/framework/src/mx/controls/sliderClasses/Slider.as
    flex/sdk/trunk/frameworks/projects/framework/src/mx/core/IToggleButton.as
    flex/sdk/trunk/frameworks/projects/framework/src/mx/styles/CSSSelector.as

Sequence to Sequence 3 point edit

I am a FCP Newbie, Avid long time lover.
FCP is nice, but has it's moments.
These forums are great.
I have been working on a project now for two months and have learnt from the manuals and the "FCP for Avid editors" PeachpitPress book (a god send).
My question is this,
I hate the FCP subclip function so I prefer to go through my cutaway tapes and create a sequence that has all the best shots.
This way I can pre-create short sequences of shots, and save time wading through wilds when cutting.
I set F9 & F10 to "insert sequence content" and "overwrite sequence content" so that I don't end up with sequences in sequences when I final cut.
All goes well when I edit, except for three point edits.
FCP can't load sequences into the timeline from the Viewer (Avid has this handy feature so you can easily edit from one seq to another, and make navigating through footage easier!),
so I load a seq into the viewer, scrub to a clip I want,
and press 'mark clip'.
I see that it has marked the in and out for my selected clip; good.
Then I go to my timeline and find where I want the shot to END
(sometimes I know where a cutaway should end, rather then a start point),
so I mark the end point.
Next I press overwrite,
Now I would expect the shot to lay nicely where I marked an end.
But it does not,
it rather inserts ALL the shots from the viewer sequence (from the in point to the end of it's sequence), and it puts them at the start of my timeline!
Am I doing something wrong?
Has anyone found a way to make FCP behave with three point edit from seq to seq?

this is a circuitous way to work in FCP.
How so?
I am interested in a simpler or faster way of working with cutaways and footage.
I am working on documentaries with 10s of hours of unscripted footage.
There is base voiceovers and interviews that need to be covered with cutaways and recreations.
I spend time watching all the footage and found that if I break it into subclips it turns into bins full of 100s of subclips.
So I have to label each one to differentiate them.
This takes a long time to give each one a different title.
Or I could look at the small thumbnails, but then inevitably it shows the wrong frame or doesn't give me an idea of what movement it contains.
Loading each into the viewer to view them is slow going when I could just scrub through a sequence timeline of good shots.
Mini-select timelines allow me to create much fewer clips in a bin to view.
I name the sequence as to what cutaways they refer.
And again I can pre-create small sequences, or place them in an order that is not alphabetical.
I find the subclip limits annoying very often.
When I am breaking up my wilds I select the exact duration of a clip that looks nice
(I can fairly well spot how long a shot looks good before it misses it's target, or doesn't suit the style of edit).
But sometimes I need to extend it, or often add dissolves in the sequence in one of the many tweaking stages of editing; subclip limits are really annoying then.
Is there a way to always remove subclip limits when they are inserted in a sequence?

Insufficient content for edit, four point editing, ignore out point on source

Hello folks,
I'm a long time FCP 7 and Avid editor currently using 8.2 for two short form museum films and have been running into all sort of questions. This one comes up multiple times a day. I tried to search for this here but didn't find my exact issue or answers.
I am trying to do a four point edit and I keep getting the "Insufficient Content for Edit" error. My source is marked in and out for 5 sec and my timeline in and out is marked for 8 sec. Four points total. I have already checked the Ignore Source Out point in the Fit Clip window and have checked the "Remember" box as well. My source definitely have enough footage to fill the marked 8 sec in the timeline. So why isn't PP ignoring the source out point when I commit the edit? Of course, I works properly if I go to the Source window and remove the out point manually but that's a pain and shouldn't be the way. Is PP not capable of this? or Am I doing something wrong? What is the point of the "Ignore Source Out Point" if it doesn't apply to this very common situation?
Thanks for any help you folks can offer.
CHL

I think I know what the issue is.
When the Fit Clip dialog opens for me and the source is shorter than the destination, "Ignore Source In Point" and "Ignore Source Out Point" are grayed out. In other words, when the source is shorter than the destination, my only option is to ignore sequence in or out points.
If my source is longer than my destination then it allows me to check ignore source in or out. However, if I have Premiere remember this choice, when I try to insert a source clip that is shorter than the destination, I get the error that you get.
It's obviously a terrible setup and shouldn't be like this, but that's why it's happening.

Three point editing problems

HI,
I am completely new to video editing. I have bought the book "Final Cut Express 4, Movie Making for Everyone, Apple Pro Training Series", and am slowly working my way through it.
I have come to the part about three point editing, but I can't replicate what is happening in the book, and I can't see where I'm going wrong.
I have marked an In point and an Out point on the timeline, and then mark an in (or out) point on the clip in the viewer, but when I drag the clip from the viewer into the timeline it is not constrained to the In and Out points on the timeline, and the full length of the marked clip from the viewer is inserted.
If I mark both the In and Out point in the viewer, and then mark either an In or Out point in the timeline it works OK.
I'm sure I'm doing something quite basic wrong but I can't find out what it is,
Any suggestions appreciated, thanks for reading.
Julie

Thanks a lot, i've just checked the book and it actually says that, I must have overlooked it, I guess I should read a bit more carefully.

3 point edit

Apparently I forgot how to do a 3-point edit, or least what I remember as one. In the old FCP you could put an in and out point in the timeline and an in point on the clip and FCP would adjust the time to make the clip fit in the space you told to. Is there a way to do this in FCP X?
Thanks,

Hey Tom. Well... I checked back in a tutorial I have (Rippletraining) and I was reminded of what I was speaking to in this post:
There are, of course, TWO types of 3-point edits:
1.) Wherein you have "in" and "out" points in the "source" (event) video, and then ONE "in" point in the "record" (timeline) video.
Conversely...
2.) Wherein you have your "in" and "out" points in the timeline, while just ONE "in" point up in the source video. (event library.)
FCPX suggests you use the "range" tool in the latter example; It calculates the duration to figure the "out" point for the source video. That's the way I learned it. But, I'm sure, as with all programs, there are multiple ways to skin this cat. But, when I'm doing a 3-point edit, without knowing the "OUT" for my source (event library) material, I mouse over to the "range" tool.
Peace.

Two Point Edits?

I've been an Avid editor for years and I'm learning FCP. I want to be able to have a mark in and a mark out on the timeline and then make an edit from wherever the clip is parked on the source side. In other words, I don't want to have to "mark in" every time on the source clip. Is this possible? Thanks.

FCP will use the playhead in the TIMELINE as an IN point but not the viewer. The OP asked about the source side which is Avid-speak for the Viewer. If you have to IN or OUT marked in the Viewer and perform a regular overwrite or insert you get the first frame of the clip and not where the playhead is sitting. At least that's what happens on mine. If you do a REPLACE then FCP does use the playhead. It's more like the sync-point-editing feature in Avid if anyone remembers that.
Now it is correct that if you have no IN marked in the timeline then the playhead becomes an the IN point. that is true.

Edit Tab Order Bug??

I've upgraded from CVI 8.1 to CVI 2010 a short while back, and while working on a project recently, I noticed that the Edit Tab Order functionality no longer seems to work properly. I still have 8.1 installed on the same PC. If I open an old project in 8.1 and edit tab order, everything works just fine. I can set a value in the "Click to set" box and point to the control that I want to set and the value is applied. However, if I do the same thing in CVI 2010, when clicking on a control that I want to set, the value is NOT set and the other control tab order values get all screwed up. I've seen the issue on a 64bit Windows 7 Laptop as well as a 32bit Windows XP computer.
Is this a known bug?? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere. Should it be reported someplace else? This essentially makes the Tab Order functionality useless, and is a bit frustrating on a panel with a large number of controls.
Thanks!

I figured out my issue, and it is actually consistent in both v8.1 and 2010. The issue is that I have a Decoration Frame around a group of controls. When previously testing in v8.1, I did not have a frame around the controls. That's why it worked.
So... Once a frame was inserted (in either version of CVI), any controls that the frame surrounded could no longer be selected in the Edit Tab Order window. Selecting ANYWHERE inside the frame only selects the frame tab order and NOT any control inside the frame. After a little trial and error, I found that this was related to the Z-Plane order of the frame. The frame is a bit misleading in that all the controls are clearly visible inside, but the frame still lies ON TOP of them. Once I selected the frame and "Arrange>Control ZPlane Order>Move to Back", I could then edit the tab order of the interior controls as expected in the Edit Tab Order window.
Sorry for any confusion. Hopefully my little snafu might help someone else at some point in the future.

Another Edit in Photoshop bug

When I highlight an image and select "Edit in Photoshop" the image opens in Photoshop just fine.
The problem arrises when I am finished editing and click "Save" in photoshop. The edited image does not appear in my Lightroom Library. Instead, I only see the original image. The really quirky thing is that the original now has bars on each side of it indicating a stack and the little white square appears at the top left displaying "1 of 2". If you hover over it with the mouse a pop-up says "This image is part of a stack" But if you double click it or choose "Expand stack" it still only shows the one image.
What gives? Both 2.0 & 2.1 have this issue. I never experienced this in 1.X so the bug is new.

Jao,
Nope. Everything is just as it was when I used LR 1.X together with CS3. I upgraded to LR 2.0 and CS4 about the same time so it could be an issue with either but I suspect it is in LR.
Here is another quirk I just discovered...
If I double click on the white square indicating the number of photos in the stack, both images (the PS edited & the original) show up in LRs compare view on my second monitor. The edited image still does not show in my Library screen even though it's on the second monitor in compare view. Strange.

4 Point Edits - Typo or Bug?

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