6600gt problems (AGP)

Before installing my 6600gt I had a geforce 2 ti which I uninstalled all the drivers for. When I put this card in I installed the drivers that came with it. When I click on the MSI information tab it says my bus type is agp but agp 4x or 8x arent checked off: http://www.farm-boyz.com/agp.gif and if i go to check my vid card setting it says my bus type is pci: http://www.farm-boyz.com/pci.gif and that makes no sense. I checked my bios, tried multiple drivers uninstalling before installing each time and no luck. Could it be that I received a bad card?

Quote from: JuKyPants on 18-March-05, 11:25:25
Before installing my 6600gt I had a geforce 2 ti which I uninstalled all the drivers for. When I put this card in I installed the drivers that came with it. When I click on the MSI information tab it says my bus type is agp but agp 4x or 8x arent checked off: http://www.farm-boyz.com/agp.gif and if i go to check my vid card setting it says my bus type is pci: http://www.farm-boyz.com/pci.gif and that makes no sense. I checked my bios, tried multiple drivers uninstalling before installing each time and no luck. Could it be that I received a bad card?
Well the first thing I would do is check all your bios settings, and make sure your AGP is set at 8X or 4X. Your motherboard might only support 4X but thats OK.
Then I would look in device manager to see if you have anything listed out of the ordinary.
To me it seems like a chipset or bios related problem. So you should probably check for updated motherboard chipset drivers and bios. It could also be the MSI video drivers. You don't need to use MSI drivers, so you should probably give the 71.84's drivers a try that are on the nVidia website.

Similar Messages

  • Major 6600gt Problem - Need to pick your minds

    Heya everyone ... I need some experienced minds
    So i got a MSI 6600gt AGP the other day and have been having insane freezing problems. Lets start with my specs...
    Athlon64 3200+ cpu - 1gig PC3200 ram- MSI 6600gt agp (have used Cd Drivers and official 66.93 to no avail) - Antec 430psu - Latest Mobo Bios from my PC vendor - Windows Service Pack 1 w/Directx9c- Use DH DriverCleaner to the letter before each driver install
    I should have everything to make this puppy go but it's not. One thing of note is that the card worked at my dads house.... then i took it back to my house and the problems started. I thought it may be the older nature of this houses wiring so I took things off my power strip and also went out today and got a 430watt (replaced the old 250 watt psu) antec PSU from Circuit city but the same freezing still persists. I can try and load Joint Ops or HL2 but then it just freezes. My bios is set, I'm doing clean driver installs with proven drivers, I have a more than adequate PSU, the card isn't running hot at all, but I have no joy! Ohhh and yes... I did connect the one molex connector to the back of the card to power it. Please tell me if you have anything thought about this.
    One thing though... yes it worked at my dads (got a 7500 3dMark03 score) but me getting the new 430psu should have fixed the potential of a power problem yes? Could it be that i dont have windows Service Pack 2?... i doubt it...all that is a security update. Also would using Driver heavens TuneXP 1.5 hurt anything with this install?
    This seems like a hard one...give it a shot if you could
    UPDATED >> I DL'd Service Pack 2 and a utility from MSI that tells you if the Driver is current and if the VGA Card Bios is up to date (Both of which were)... I also Disabled TuneXp 1.5.....Nothing happened...Same problems

    Hi, I had the exact same problem witha leadtek AGP 6600GT, OpenGL works fine but any DirectX game just freezes. I searched all the forums I could find & found loads of people had the same problem with no fix in sight I've RMA'd the card hopefully for a re-fund and got my self an FX5900XT, overclocked it a bit & it's performong pretty well (3DMArk 01=14251, 03=6023). The problem seems to be mostly limited to the AGP version so I'm gonna wait till it's time for a complete re-build before I get a GeForce 6 and go the PCI express route. Sorry I'm no help but you are not alone :(

  • KT6 Delta and XFX 6600GT Problems

    I have had this mobo for a while now and have not had any problems until today.
    I recently got a XFX brand Geforce 6600GT AGP video card.
    I uninstalled the drivers for the current 5900 card and installed the new card and here is my problem.
    With the new card in, it will first see the bios of the video card then go to the boot screen where the system memory test is done. Once this test is done it hangs. Doesnt do anything. Cant even get back into bios. Crossed the jumper and get back into bios. reset all settings and reboot. Same thing.
    I reinstalled the 5900 with no problems. have run msi autoupdate and updated the bios to the current version and the via chipset drivers still wont work.
    Anyone have any suggestions on how to get this card to work with this system>?

    Sorry,
    Spec's are:
    MSI Kt6 Delta-LSR
    Barton XP2800
    Windows XP-SP2
    Thermaltake 480W
    1G Corsair 3200C2
    WD 80G
    Maxtor 160G
    Audigy Platinum
    NEC 2500A
    Samsund dvd-rom
    (Nothing is overclocked)
    Rails read (live)
    3.3v = 3.38v
    5     =  5.13
    12    =  11.98
    Just seems that its an issue with either the bios or the chipset?? Dont know.
    The emachine has a P4 but it is an older emachine. When I hooked it up to
    the P4 I didnt even have the molex plugged in and it worked!
    I currently have the PNY 5900 and all is well. Posts and boots.
    Im about to give up on the 6600 unless someone can rescue me!

  • MSI 6600GT VTD AGP - VIVO, bad capture video quality

    Before buying my 6600GT it used a ATI All in wonder 9800PRO, and the quality of image in the video capture was spectacular, clear, shining, without ghost, even with images with fast movements (horizontal text moving from right to left for example).
    Now, I am disappointed with the quality of video capture of my new 6600GT. The image is blurred, like but slow per moments, it is remarkable with fast movements.
    To somebody it happens to him the same?
    I download all demo soft from Ulead, Pinnacle, Cyberlink, Intervideo...the problem persist

    well some diferent drivers could make you gain a better capture quality but im sorry to say to you that no nvidia card will have a better capture quality than a BBA ATI video card, even if you take an old ati video card build by ati and compare with the lastest nvidia card...
    Sorry but, if I were you, I really really really would get back to a BBA ati video card, it will work best in your new mobo for video capture.

  • MSI NX 6600GT 128 AGP

     
    Hello, 
    I have a VGA Card MSI NX6600-GT 128 AGP and I don't want to come undone of her. With which Mainboard K8 she will be compatible? 
    Thank you.

    Oi Duarte,
    You need a nForce3 chipset, which supports AGP cards. If you want a MSI motherboard, look for K8N Neo2-F, K8N Neo2-FX or K8N Neo2 Platinum.
    Have a nice day
    Quote from: Duarte on 28-April-06, 11:11:31
    Hello, 
    I have a VGA Card MSI NX6600-GT 128 AGP and I don't want to come undone of her. With which Mainboard K8 she will be compatible? 
    Thank you.

  • Problem AGP

    Function GA SG-8500A64D SUPER SAGA GOLD VGA CARD ATI RADEON 8500 AGP (64MB DDR, DUAL DISPLAY, DVI-I&TV OUT) onboard INTEL 845D MSI ULTRA AR? Me malfunction. Computer doesn't go start. On other motherboard function.  Thank for answer.

    -Does the system work with another VGA card? (which)
    -What power supply are you using?
    Things to try:
    -If you have PCI cards try removing them.
    -Try loading the bios defaults.

  • MSI GeForce 6600GT AGP problems

    Hi all,
    A couple of days ago i bought the 6600GT 128MB AGP graphics card and i have the following problems.
    I have a gigabyte motherboard with a 370 socket, a 4X AGP, and a 350W PSU. I tried 3 games and i got major problems in the graphics in two of them. Doom 3 seems ok, but in painkiller and half-life 2 the polygons dont look right to me (the polygons are corrupted).
    Also in the "MSI information" tab in the display properties i got the wrong information about my graphics card. The memory type is wrong (it displays SDRAM) and the AGP 4X in the "AGP/PCI information" is not ticked. I checked my BIOS option and is set to 4X so i dont know whats wrong. I also tried both the 66.93 NVIDIA drivers and the 71.22 drivers from MSI but nothing happened. The polygon coprruption in the aformentioned games remains.
    Could please someone help me? Does the 6600GT work on AGP 4X?
    Thanks in advance,
    Yannis

    I tried "dxdiag" to perform some diagnostics on DirectX and while testing the Direct3D capabilities of the card the test fails when using hardware-accelarated Direct3D 8 & 9 interfaces, while passes the test with Direct3D 7. I cannot figure out the problem. I tried everything i could so far but still nothing. Can someone help me? The AGP slot of my motherboard supports 4X (AGP 2.0 compliant). Can this problem be from a damaged graphics card?

  • HELP ! System freezes now with new MSI GeForce 6600GT AGP

    Any/All help is greatly appreciated... this is driving me crazy.
      Just installed a new MSI 6600GT AGP card.  Windows/Apps work fine.. but system keeps freezing (disabling keyboard as well) when running certain games (3D?) like Medal of Honor, Prince of Perisa, SplinterCell.  Also, freezes on 3DMark01SE benchmark software.  What strange is 3DMark2K5 ran fine.. and returned a respectable score (3078).   I've tried unistalling/re-installing latest MSI drivers (71.22), Nvidia's 66.93, and removing nVidia's GART drivers.  I've also disconnected other hardware to allieviate PSU constraints.  I've uninstalled/re-installed 6600GT card and molex power connector on card.  My system specs are below:
    Motherboard = ASUS Focus A7N8X-LA, BIOS=American Megatrend 3.07, Chipset = nVidia nForce2
    MSI GeForce 6600GT 128 AGP
    1Gb Ram
    200Gb Maxtor  8mb buffer HD
    ASUS E616P1  DVD-ROM
    RICOH  MP5240A  DVD+RW
    Enermax EG375P-VE SFMA PSU  (has separate 12V rails)
    Any suggestions as to what else to try?  Getting ready to RMA this card.

    Quote from: andysue on 23-February-05, 07:34:53
    Thanks for that Crull.
    I have just found this on a site it may help someone, I hope to get my replacement tomorrow I shall let you know how it goes.
    Question
    I just got a K8 series MB , and your A6600GT 128MB VGA , every time when I quit the 3D games ,
    the system gave me a blue screen and then restart the system. I already update the VGA driver and MB
    driver but no luck , what can I do?
    Answer
    If your system are WinXP + SP2 , We suggest you to disable DEP function.
    Please follow below steps to disable the DEP. (See below picture)
    1. First , Select “Advanced” under “System Properties”
    2. Choose “Settings” under “Startup and Recovery”
    3. Click “ Edit “ , then you can edit “boot.ini” file.
    4. Change “/NoExecute=OptIn” as “/execute” (See below red square in step4)
    5. Then save the boot.ini file and restart the system.
    6. After rebooting , the DEP function will be disable.
    Other information please see below link :
    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/875352/en-us
    http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/info/bootini.shtml
    http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/sp2mempr.mspx
    • /NOEXECUTE=OPTIN Enables DEP for core system images and those specified in the DEP
    configuration dialog.
    • /NOEXECUTE=OPTOUT Enables DEP for all images except those specified in the DEP
    configuration dialog.
    • /NOEXECUTE=ALWAYSON Enables DEP on all images.
    • /NOEXECUTE=ALWAYSOFF Disables DEP.
    Configuration Description
    OptIn
    (default configuration)
    On systems with processors capable of hardware-enforced DEP, DEP is
    enabled by default for limited system binaries and applications that
    “opt-in,”
    With this option, only Windows system binaries are covered by DEP by
    default.
    OptOut DEP is enabled by default for all processes. Users can manually create
    a list of specific applications which do not have DEP applied using
    System in Control Panel. IT Pros and Independent Software Vendors
    (ISVs) can use the Application Compatibility Toolkit to opt-out one or
    more applications from DEP protection. System Compatibility Fixes
    (“shims”) for DEP do take effect.
    AlwaysOn This provides full DEP coverage for the entire system. All processes
    always run with DEP applied. The exceptions list for exempting
    specific applications from DEP protection is not available. System
    Compatibility Fixes (“shims”) for DEP do not take effect. Applications
    which have been opted-out using the Application Compatibility Toolkit
    run with DEP applied.
    AlwaysOff This does not provide any DEP coverage for any part of the system,
    regardless of hardware DEP support. The processor does not run in
    PAE mode unless the /PAE option is present in the boot entry.
    Yes let us know how it goes. Hopefully well.

  • New Geforece 6600GT AGP cards

    Has anyone installed one of the new Gefore 6600GT cards (AGP...since there's no PCIE on exisiting AMD mobos).
    If so...any issues?  Any good comments?
    I'm looking to purchase the one out by XFX, but I wanted feed back first.  I know my mobo is sensitive to it's components

    Quote
    Originally posted by syar2003
    The 6600 version with AGP needs a AGP/Pci-e bridge , this makes it
    more expensive than the native 6600 pci-e .
    Yes, I stated that in my post. But, as I said, I read some reviews that said that the AGP version is supposed to have underclocked RAM to make up the cost of the bridge.  Here's the link:
    http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2277
    "The GeForce 6600GT AGP runs at the same core clock speed as the PCI Express version (500MHz) but has a slightly lower memory clock (900MHz vs. 1GHz on the PCI Express version).  By lowering the memory clock NVIDIA helps to offset the additional cost of the PCI Express-to-AGP bridge.  The performance impact of the reduction in memory clock as well as the on-board bridge is between 0 - 5%.  For example, in Doom 3 at 1024 x 768 (High Quality) the PCI Express version of the GeForce 6600GT is 3.5% faster than the AGP version.  There is a performance difference, but it does not appear to be huge. "
    Maybe the cheaper RAM isn't enough to make up the cost of the bridge, but I can't believe the bridge is that expensive.  I think they cost more due mainly to much higher demand for AGP.
    NOTE:  Also in the same article: "The XFX card is identical to NVIDIA's reference board except for one major factor - it is clocked at the PCI Express 6600GT speeds of 500/1000."  Ah hah!  Will be interesting to see how prices compare when some competitors to XFX come along....

  • Problems with SB Audigy 2

    Hello.
    I know this is a very known problem, but it also is a very annoying one. I used my SB now for some time without these problems. But when I changed, my motherboard an my Graphicscard, I suddely had scratching and cracking on my speakers (one or two per minute).
    My Hardware:
    -Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe with AMD Athlon XP 2000+
    -G RAM Infineon
    -Leadtek Winfast 6600GT-TDH (AGP)
    -2x Realtek Ethernetcard (00Mbit)
    -PCI IDE controller (this ist not the problem! cracking remains even when I remove the IDE controller.)
    -Windows 2000 Pro SP4
    -PS/2 mouse and keyboard
    -and of course: SB Audigy 2 ZS
    At first I noticed it in a game, and tried a lot of things to solve it, nothing worked.
    I...
    ...tried other PCI slots (5, 4, and 3), to have nothing shareing the same "IRQ-line". (Now it is installed at PCI-slot 4, only shareing IRQ with the onboard G-Bit-Lan (according to manual), which is deactivatet.
    ...have the newest drivers for my Audigy.
    ...have the newset BIOS for my board.
    ...tried to reduce the volume, mute other channels, turning down base.
    Nothing helped!
    I noticed that the problem is not only ingame. Even in Windows, and even when there is actually NO AUDIO PLAYED(!), I have such noises. I found out that, these scratches are directly connectet to typing on may keyboard (or holding keys). I've heared that a USB keyboard might solve this problem. But today (here in germany) isn't a workingday, so i can't buy one. An actually i don't want to buy one, beacause in my opinion PS/2 > USB, and i don't see why to spend money when my soundcard has some error.
    This is not what I excpect from an Highend/Highprice product! Please Creatve (or the other boardmembers) help me. Or take back this card, with this failure it is absolutely unuseable.
    Thanks so far
    (excuse my bad english)

    hmm.....don't think I understand what problem you have fter reading your post. Have you disable CMSS?Message Edited by justaguy on 0-04-200706:50 PM

  • Z buffer 24 bit sur msi nx 6600gt vtd

    hi,
    i would like to know if zbuffer on msi nx 6600gt vtd agp can be more than 24. and so, how to change this value to 16 or 32.
    (exuse for my bad english)

    If I understand this correctly, then you have an Optimus graphics card (couldn't find anything online, but your lspci looks like it). I too have such a setup on my laptop. The thing to keep in mind here, is that your main graphics card is the Intel integrated card. So instead of installing your system like with an nvidia card, you install it like an intel card. Specifically, you would want to follow the instructions on Bumblebee. Once you followed them, the whole graphics part runs on the Intel card. Once you want to play a game or do some other heavy graphics card work you call your application like this:
    optirun wine /path/to/game.exe
    Notice how optirun tells the system to use the nvidia card. It will take a second or two to start it (specifically, enable the card, start another X screen and launch the application on it transparently). Follow the instructions in the Wiki if you have any problems.
    If you don't have an Optimus card (just NVIDIA, no Intel), then don't follow any Optimus instructions, just usual NVIDIA stuff from the Wiki.

  • Boot freeze with 6600gt on k8t800 neo fis2r in turbo mode

    Hi, thought i would seek a little advice before i decide to just build a new system and burn this one where it stands,
    when i first built my PC i had;
    amd athlon 64 3000+
    msi k8t neo-fis2r mobo
    1gb ddr 400 ram
    2 x 160gb hdd
    dvd & dvd-rw
    550w psu
    then the part i regreted most nvidia fx 5200 128mb agp.
    had everything setup nicely and had my bios set on turbo mode - seemed to make a noticable difference. then i decided to stop being cheap and bought a new gfx card, sparkle 6600gt 128mb agp 8x and at the same time i got a new case which has a 350w - 450w max PSU (arctic cooling Silentium T1). ever since that i cant enable turbo mode in my bios, otherwise it just does memory test and stops without detecting devices. i press del to enter bios setup but it just changes the del: bios to go> bios and does nothing else. so i have to clear cmos and start again
    so my instict is either telling me
    a) gfx card stopping motherboard running in turbo
    b) psu too puny
    which of these would it be likely to be if anyone can help me out. ive rolled my bios back to v1.0 which was used when the turbo mode was fine and the problem is still persisting and ive been through every version inbetween back upto 2.2. the system works fine in fast mode, i would just prefer turbo mode because it did make a significant difference for playing games, boot time, movie editing etc.
    thanks for any help,
    Phyre

    It may well be the Sparkle Vid Card. I have heard a ton of complains of late about them. I am not that familiar with those particular cards or even the brand. You may want to do some checking around... Guru3d may be a great place to start as graphics cards are their primary discussion topics. Also use Google to see what others are saying about them.
    I agree that the 5299's are pretty lame these days for gaming. It's a great card if your primary concern is productivity but todays games can use it but mostly at low res with few features or levels of detail without a huge hit in frame rates.

  • SATA (random and restart problems)

    New to the forum so bear with me.
    I have a wierd problem involving during boot up and the system sometimes hangs during NVIDIA Raid.... Detecting Array...
    It seems that whenever I restart the machine from Windows that the screen turns black and nothing follows after that. Then when I push the restart button on the case, the machine would freeze at the SATA Raid point while booting. This also happens randomly when just turning the system on and sometimes before showing IDE devices it would hang there too. According to the D-Bracket the right side is green and the left side is red: Testing Base and Extended Memory. I have tried refreshing the power cycles by turning the PSU off and unplugging and sometimes that wouldn't help. I would appreciate any input.
    System specs as follows:
    MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum w/ AMD Athlon64 3000+ (2115 MHz) standard VCore
    BIOS version 1.9 US.
    HTT 4x & FSB @ 235MHz w/ 200MHz RAM
    2 Kingston HyperX 512MB 4000 modules in first and second slots @ 1.65V
    BFG nVidia Geforce 6600GT OC AGP 8X
    Soundblaster Audigy2 in the last PCI slot
    Mad Dog SurePower 500W w/ Thermaltake Tsunami Dream (only mentioning this because of front panel wiring)
    Maxtor SATA 250GB 16MB cache w/ Seagate 7200.x 80GB in RAID JBOD using SATA 1 & 2.

    hi  Omega215D,
    welcome to the forum.
    You need to be aware that sata 1/2 are not locked but linked to the htt bus speed this means that any oc above 230 is likely to give data corruption on any drives connected there & may be the reason for your detection issues.
    See
    SATA 1/2 vs. 3/4 4 a detailed explanation. Thids is a chipset Nvidia3 250/Ultra issue effecting all boards using theis chipset.
    so suggest you either Limit OC to around 225, use sata 3/4 only or use a pci sata card.
    luck

  • K8N Neo Platinum problems

    Hehe dont know where to start... guess ill list my computer specs.
    (new)Board: K8N Neo Platinum BIOS v1.4 (Lastest nforce drivers)
    (new)CPU: AMD 64 3200+
    (new)RAM: (2)Kingston 512mb PC3200 400MHz
    (new)PSU: Enermax EG465/AX 460W
    HD: Maxtor 80gig 7200RPM
    OS: Windows XP Pro
    (new)Graphics: Geforce FX 5700LE (Lastest nvidia drivers)
    (new)Sound: SB Audigy 2
    Standard Microsoft Opti Mouse(USB port)
    Standard Keyboard (PS2 port)
    Some Bios Settings:
    Memory Voltage: Auto (But have tried it at 1.5 and 1.6 and still the same problems)
    AGP Volts :1.5
    CPU volts : Auto
    Max Memclock: 200MHz
    2T Timing
    TLc:3.0 Trcd:3.0 Tras:8 Trp:3
    Spread Spectrum: Disabled
    Nv/ATI Disabled.
    I just recently started buying parts, about a week ago, to upgrade my old AMD Athlon 2000+. Got all the new parts(listed above). Ive been having all sorts of problems. Ill list them to see what you guys think
    1.) Whenever i start playing games or a graphicly intense program(ex: video editing, or 3D programs) or if i play a game and i do any sort of loading(ex: zoning, changing levels, loading player models etc.). My game either crashes to the desktop without errors, or my system will crash and drop to a bluescreen with the stop error "STOP: 0x0000007E". Or ill get a different blue screen saying "Dumping physical memory" or something can't read it cause it just appears then reboots my computer right away.
    Or just recently i crashed to my desktop but got an error box saying "There are stability problems with the Geforce FX 5700LE please check if you have the correct drivers etc."
    Then just the other night i was playing a game and crashed to the desktop but got a virtual memory error saying "Ran out of Virtural memory etc etc. Please check your Virtual memory page file". So i did and increased it a bit cause i saw it was set lower than the actual amount of ram i have.
    I guess it's just 1 big problem but im just so confused about it. Been trying to troubleshoot it for about a week and about to give up. This monday is my last day to return things back to the store, would rather not cause ive heard such great things about AMD 64's and the Neo Platinum board.
    Hope you guys got some ideas Im just about out of them heh.
    Thanks.

    Don't know if you have tried this things but heres my list of things .
    BIOS:
    -First load bios optimized defaults , then ..
    -Set the cpu vcore voltage up by + 0.025v (don't use auto)
    -Increase the memory voltage vdimm to 2.7v (or the vendors max defined voltage)
    -Disable fsb spread spectrum
    -Disable dynamic overclocking
    -Disable cool n quiet
    -Change the multiplier from startup to 11
    -Turn off auto on memory timings in cell menu/dram and set all values manually
     and the max mem frequency to 200.
    -Turn off AGP fatwrites
    CASE:
    USB connectors
    -Disconnect case front usb from usb header on motherboard.
    -Disconnect the d-bracket from usb header on motherboard.
    -Change the red MSI ide cable if used.
    -Check all stand offs/spacers under the motherboard .
    -If using PS2 kb and mouse some board have mislabeled color code
     making people connect mouse in kb and vice versa .
     Correct is keyboard in the bottom mouse top.
    STABILITY TEST:
    Outside windows and windows drivers:
    Download and test with memtest86 v 3.1
    http://www.memtest.com
    Inside windows:
    Test stability with prime95 and/or hotcputester

  • GeForce stops getting detected by driver

    I am having problems with my GF 6600GT on AGP for some time now. Often, the bootup of Windows takes unusually long, and then the resolution drops, windows and dialogs move sluggish, and 3D stops working altogether. As I open the Device Manager I find out, that the graphic card is not detected by the driver. Reseting the computer does not help, the only thing that does, is reinstallation of the driver. I think, that there is a connection between AntiAliasing usage and this problem. When a game activates it, the next bootup usually fails. Any ideas? Thanks in advance!

    Quote from: BravoMan on 16-February-07, 01:34:47
    Thank you, I will try it right away. Just out of curiosity, why exactly this driver? Is this the last one, where something was updated/changed in regards to the 6600GT?
    very good release, rock solid stable, without issues gives best performance for your class VGA. proved in time as best drivers. newest release are optimised for higher VGA class and will bring nothing for your VGA except some texture corruption or other unexpected things can come and drop in performance for sure.
    but that is my vision & opinion only.

Maybe you are looking for