A Choir Query - from FinalePM to GarageBand3 (and back?)

The Challenge:
A Mac-based filmmaker/video editor anxiously seeks advice from experienced users of Finale and GarageBand who know the inner mysteries of MIDI (and may also be proficient with the likes of LogicExpress).
In a nutshell, I'm struggling to understand the simplest way (if there is such a thing) to add some specific non-orchestral sounds to my Finale PrintMusic Instrument List, to beef up the playback of some original compositions.
And failing that, the simplest way to use some of the specific SmartMusic SoundFont samples included with FinalePM in a GarageBand or a LogicExpress project.
The Rest Is Background and Elaboration:
I've spent the past few weeks using Finale's PrintMusic2006 to develop some musical underscores for a short film I'm now editing (using FinalCutPro 5). The simple arrangements I've created using PrintMusic's built-in SoftSynth player and the SoundFont instruments package so far work pretty well as demos to accompany the printed notation, and that was their original intention. But parts of them actually sound not too bad, and are close to being useable for the film itself. So now I'd like to see if I can take the playback aspect even further, and use PrintMusic (either on its own or in combination with other software) to generate a more polished final output.
So far though, my experience with the other music software available to me has been frustrating:
- GarageBand3 will import a MIDI file exported from PrintMusic, but only at a single tempo. This one-tempo-only-per-project limitation is a major roadblock for me, because while this music is hardly sophisticated, it does have tempo variations, as well as key and time signature changes.
- SoundtrackPro, supposedly a higher-end app than GarageBand, won't even import a standard MIDI file. (What's up with that, anyway? I still haven't quite figured out where STP lies on the GarageBand-LogicExpress-LogicPro spectrum.)
- and LogicExpress (which I don't yet own but am testing a trial version of) - aside from being a whole new learning curve I really don't have time to get into right now - doesn't even have basic versions of the software instruments I'm trying to find better quality versions of, such as Harpsichord, Bagpipe (yes, the music involves a very strange mix), and most of all, choral/choir effects (more human-sounding Oohs, Ahhs, Doos, and Mmms, both male and female).
The Arrangements:
The instruments I've used in PrintMusic for playback of the different versions of the film's music are:
- Church Organ,
- Choir Aahs
- Voice Oohs,
- Bagpipe,
- Harpsichord,
- Tubular Bells,
- Woodblock,
- Overdriven Guitar,
- and a couple of bg synth effects.
The organ, harpsichord, guitar, bell and woodblock all sound not too bad in context. The Bagpipe's a bit wimpy, but both it and the Harpsichord are at least better than the ones the Apple apps offer - which is to say, none! And I was especially disappointed to see that even with the addition of hundreds of dollars worth of JamPacks those same apps still don't appear to offer any human voice/choral Software Instrument sounds whatsoever.
I do see such sounds available for purchase at sites such as these:
http://www.soundsonline.com/sophtml/details.phtml?sku=PS13
and
http://www.bestservice.de/detail.asp/en/vocalchoir/extended_classicalchoir/813442a66p249p64p49
(with of course much higher-end and higher-priced options also available).
But the question I'm hoping someone out there can help me with is:
- Can PrintMusic make use of these kinds of samples (either these specific ones, or any other kinds in any other formats -- including the Software Instruments already included in Logic and/or GarageBand)?
- And are there sites from which specific software instruments can be purchased and downloaded a la carte (the same way you can easily preview and then download individual typeface fonts from any number of freeware, shareware, and commercial sites)?
Because even though it's very much a notation program first and an audio-file creation program second, Finale's simple PrintMusic is right now much closer to having the sounds I want for this particular project than the much costlier LogicExpress. But Is there in fact any way to selectively add to the number and variety of Instruments which can be accessed in PrintMusic's Instrument List? And can it utilize additional software instruments such as the choral sounds on Peter Siedlaczek`s "Extended Classical Choir" noted above?
And if (as I just did) I download an ".sf2" formatted sample of a bagpipe, how do I get a Finale (or a LogicExpress for that matter) to actually see the darn thing and make it accessible -- is it as simple as just placing the file in the correct folder? I've scoured the manuals, and I still don't know.
(I see on the MakeMusic site how for the full Finale "exciting libraries of additional instruments are available from Garritan and Native Instruments", which makes me think that instruments in the correct format can indeed be added to a Finale Instrument List -- although things like the Garritan Personal Orchestra package wouldn't help me right now, since the few specific sounds I'm seeking are choral and/or non-orchestral.)
So I'm feeling more than a little lost right now in what seems like a minefield of different and often incompatible synthesizers, sequencers, samplers and samples out there. I'm really hoping someone can at least begin to steer me in the right direction on this question.
Very much looking forward to hearing from you.
Thanks!
John Bertram
Toronto
(Versions of this message have been posted to other online forums relating to Finale, LogicExpress, and MIDI-based music creation on the Mac.)
My system info:
PowerMac G5, dual 1.8 GHz, 3.5 GB RAM, running OSX Tiger 10.4.5
  Mac OS X (10.4.5)   Mac user since 1990 (starting on a sleek SE/30)

Hi:
Thanks for the reply and the URLs. (And apologies for the late response.)
Here's a summary of what I've been up to on this front:
I downloaded demos of SoundFont Synth (even coresponded with its author), Metro and Traktion. Have also attended a couple of sessions at the Apple Store here in Toronto, and am slowly starting to get a better handle on this whole mysterious world of MIDI, Music, and the Mac.
With the help of one of the Apple Store advisors, I've finally figured out how LogicExpress can indeed "import" (if that's the right term) and use the MakeMusic GM Instruments, as well as .sf2 files I download, as well as (at least in theory) the particular akai-format choir samples on CD which I'm likely to order (URLs for same are in earlier posts).
At first we were doing this using that SoundFont Synth utility you mentioned -- but the sound we got was noticeably inferior to what Finale's SmartSynth produced while within FinalePM. Then we discovered how LogicXP's built-in EXSP24 sampler could translate the "synthgms.sf2" file (located inside Finale PrintMusic2006 / Component Files), along with any other .sf2 or akai-format samples -- and then play them at much higher quality and with of course many more options to adjust and fine tune them.
So it's looking that will be the best (or at least the most direct) route for me to take for now.
Meantime though I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who's used another 3rd party app called Bidule (from www.plogue.com), which was recommended to me by one of the tech support staff at Finale -- though after checking their website I'm still a little unclear as to whether learning yet another program like this Bidule would be worthwhile for me right now.
In any case, thanks again for your help.
John Bertram
Toronto
PS: For reference, here's the description of the EXSP24 Sampler from the LogicExpress Plug-In Reference pdf file:
"The EXSP24 sample player does not allow new Sampler Instruments to be created, nor editing of existing EXS Instruments (apart from synthesis and modulation options). This functionality, including all sample editing, routing, and instrument creation options is only available in the full EXS24 sampler plug-in, found in Logic Pro.
The EXSP24 is compatible with the EXS24, AKAI S1000, and S3000, SampleCell, WAV, AIF(F), Gigasampler, and SoundFont2 sample formats, as well as the Vienna Library, allowing access to large and comprehensive sampler libraries."

Similar Messages

  • A Choir Query: from FinalePM to LogicXP (and back)

    The Challenge:
    A Mac-based filmmaker/video editor anxiously seeks advice from experienced users of Finale and Logic Express who know the inner mysteries of MIDI (and may also be proficient with GarageBand).
    In a nutshell, I'm struggling to understand the simplest way (if there is such a thing) to add some specific non-orchestral sounds to my Finale PrintMusic Instrument List, to beef up the playback of some original compositions.
    And failing that, the simplest way to use some of the specific SmartMusic SoundFont samples included with FinalePM in a GarageBand or a LogicExpress project.
    The Rest Is Background and Elaboration:
    I've spent the past few weeks using Finale's PrintMusic2006 to develop some musical underscores for a short film I'm now editing (using FinalCutPro 5). The simple arrangements I've created using PrintMusic's built-in SoftSynth player and the SoundFont instruments package so far work pretty well as demos to accompany the printed notation, and that was their original intention. But parts of them actually sound not too bad, and are close to being useable for the film itself. So now I'd like to see if I can take the playback aspect even further, and use PrintMusic (either on its own or in combination with other software) to generate a more polished final output.
    So far though, my experience with the other music software available to me has been frustrating:
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    - SoundtrackPro, supposedly a higher-end app than GarageBand, won't even import a standard MIDI file. (What's up with that, anyway? I still haven't quite figured out where STP lies on the GarageBand-LogicExpress-LogicPro spectrum.)
    - and LogicExpress (which I don't yet own but am testing a trial version of) - aside from being a whole new learning curve I really don't have time to get into right now - doesn't even have basic versions of the software instruments I'm trying to find better quality versions of, such as Harpsichord, Bagpipe (yes, the music involves a very strange mix), and most of all, choral/choir effects (more human-sounding Oohs, Ahhs, Doos, and Mmms, both male and female).
    The Arrangements:
    The instruments I've used in PrintMusic for playback of the different versions of the film's music are:
    - Church Organ,
    - Choir Aahs
    - Voice Oohs,
    - Bagpipe,
    - Harpsichord,
    - Tubular Bells,
    - Woodblock,
    - Overdriven Guitar,
    - and a couple of bg synth effects.
    The organ, harpsichord, guitar, bell and woodblock all sound not too bad in context. The Bagpipe's a bit wimpy, but both it and the Harpsichord are at least better than the ones the Apple apps offer - which is to say, none! And I was especially disappointed to see that even with the addition of hundreds of dollars worth of JamPacks those same apps still don't appear to offer any human voice/choral Software Instrument sounds whatsoever.
    I do see such sounds available for purchase at sites such as these:
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    and
    http://www.bestservice.de/detail.asp/en/vocalchoir/extended_classicalchoir/813442a66p249p64p49
    (with of course much higher-end and higher-priced options also available).
    But the question I'm hoping someone out there can help me with is:
    - Can PrintMusic make use of these kinds of samples (either these specific ones, or any other kinds in any other formats -- including the Software Instruments already included in Logic and/or GarageBand)?
    - And are there sites from which specific software instruments can be purchased and downloaded a la carte (the same way you can easily preview and then download individual typeface fonts from any number of freeware, shareware, and commercial sites)?
    Because even though it's very much a notation program first and an audio-file creation program second, Finale's simple PrintMusic is right now much closer to having the sounds I want for this particular project than the much costlier LogicExpress. But Is there in fact any way to selectively add to the number and variety of Instruments which can be accessed in PrintMusic's Instrument List? And can it utilize additional software instruments such as the choral sounds on Peter Siedlaczek`s "Extended Classical Choir" noted above?
    And if (as I just did) I download an ".sf2" formatted sample of a bagpipe, how do I get a Finale (or a LogicExpress for that matter) to actually see the darn thing and make it accessible -- is it as simple as just placing the file in the correct folder? I've scoured the manuals, and I still don't know.
    (I see on the MakeMusic site how for the full Finale "exciting libraries of additional instruments are available from Garritan and Native Instruments", which makes me think that instruments in the correct format can indeed be added to a Finale Instrument List -- although things like the Garritan Personal Orchestra package wouldn't help me right now, since the few specific sounds I'm seeking are choral and/or non-orchestral.)
    So I'm feeling more than a little lost right now in what seems like a minefield of different and often incompatible synthesizers, sequencers, samplers and samples out there. I'm really hoping someone can at least begin to steer me in the right direction on this question.
    Very much looking forward to hearing from you.
    Thanks!
    John Bertram
    Toronto
    (Versions of this message have also been posted to other online forums relating to Finale, GarageBand, and MIDI-based music creation on the Mac.)
    My system info:
    PowerMac G5, dual 1.8 GHz, 3.5 GB RAM, running OSX Tiger 10.4.5
    G5 dual 1.8   Mac OS X (10.4.5)   Mac user since 1990 (starting on a sleek SE/30)

    Thanks for the reply, Justin. (Sorry about the slow response -- I'm a bit swept up with March Break kid stuff.)
    Frankly, hiring a tech to help you through the
    process is perhaps the best option. A few hours is
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    Attempts to go in that direction have so far met with limited success, but I'll keep beating the bushes. (Having some trouble connecting with someone with the right combination of experience in the right combination of apps -- Finale, LogicExpress, different samples in different formats, etc.)
    I come from Logic Pro so there may
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    know).
    See what I mean!
    Otherwise, I can make a few suggestions to get
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    which is forward compatible. You can then compose in
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    DLSMusic device will load them up.
    I was getting the impression I'd need a 3rd party utility like SoundFont Synth (http://andydrabble.users.btopenworld.com/soundfontsynth/moreinfo.html) that can use sound font files in GarageBand, Logic, etc. Are you saying that LogicXP can access ".sf2" files, as well as the MakeMusic GM Instruments included with Finale's PrintMusic2006, directly -- without the help of intermediaries like SoundFont Synth? If true, that would be great for me -- but I'm finding the LogicXP documentation more than a little inscrutable so far, and can't find the section that tells me in a nice step-by-step way how to do that.
    Drabble's SoundFont Synth does come with exactly that kind of step-by-step guide for using the program with GarageBand, which I'll copy/paste here for anyone interested:
    ==============
    SoundFont Synth is an Audio Unit plug-in designed to make the synthesis of
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    Main Features
    1. Uses Apple's excellent DLS synthesizer engine to produce high quality sounds.
    2. Uses industry standard SoundFont files (.sf2) thousands of which are widely available for free download from the Internet.
    3. Passes Apple's Audio Unit Validation tests.
    4. Can use Pitch Bend wheel to control low pass, high pass, band pass and notch filters.
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    I am basically a Computer Designer and Programmer.
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    So given that this is not something I'm gong to be doing all that often in the future, should I be considering avoiding Logic altogether, and using what some people tell me are much more beginner-user-friendly apps like Tracktion2 (http://www.mackie.com/products/tracktion/tracktion.html), or MetroSE (http://www.sagantech.biz/products/metro6se.htm)?
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    G5 dual 1.8; FCP 5.x   Mac OS X (10.4.4)   Mac user since 1990 (starting on a sleek SE/30)

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