AE to PSD to FCP color shift

I've ready a few posts and cant seem to correct this.
I have an 1920x1080 After Effects CC project has a simpe 3 part animation to it.
A :15 OPEN that animates to a STILL FRAME and then an :15 OUTRO.
The STILL FRAME is exported from AE (COMP TO LAYERED PSD) that the client will add headshots to and then export a number PNGs to be brought into FCP7 (NOT X) and place between the OPEN and CLOSE. Simple Template.
In FCP7 The ANIMATION and the STILLS (PNGs) all line up perfectly except for the color shift.
I've ready about the gamma 1.8 .2...., QT, PRORES, etc...
I've tried a few settings, but I must be missing something.
Any help to what or where needs to be set in AE, PSD or FCP or QT7, QTX to get this to match?
under the gun.
(weird! looks fine when I do it in FCX, but client only uses FCP7.)
THANKS!

Only thing I can think of is a work around... Process all the clips that are going to be part of the AE effect thru AE, so that the color is the same when you get to the effect. (hide the shift that way). It's a work around... you should report this to Apple too in FCP feedback.
Jerry

Similar Messages

After Efftect to FCP color Shift

I am compositing video from FCP in After Effects out put back to FCP matching formats and get the RGB to YUV color shift. I understand why but not how to correct the problem. I have tried the sequence setting and selected render in RGB but the releative difference remains the same. I started a new sequence and selected render in RGB before puting any video in but the difference remains.
What am I missing?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
M

Only thing I can think of is a work around... Process all the clips that are going to be part of the AE effect thru AE, so that the color is the same when you get to the effect. (hide the shift that way). It's a work around... you should report this to Apple too in FCP feedback.
Jerry

Significant color shift between FCP and COLOR?

Hi there,
I get a significant color shift when sending footage - either adjusted or unadjusted/unmodified - from FCP to COLOR.
Before anyone asks, the color shift is visible both internally or on an external broadcast preview monitor.
From within COLOR, I 'send' back to FCP this sequence - which is still without any form of adjustment (apart from being sent to COLOR), the apparent color shift is now visible/added to the imported sequence (from Color).
I've tried this on three separate Macs:
1. The Mac above (6.0.6). (Leopard)
2. A Mac with the same version of FCP as above. (Snow Leopard)
3. FCP and on a third Mac with an earlier version of FCP. (Leopard)
Does everyone have the same problem?
If not, does anyone have a solution?
Cheers,
Dan
PS: I've tried:
FCP > Color ProRes contrast shift
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2150962&tstart=75

I had the same problem except that I am using version 1 of color and Final Cut Pro 6. I isolated just the video and double checked that I had no filters or if I did I turned them off. I had a smooth cam filter on one shot, but that didn't effect it. I was then able to send it to color without issue, once I had no sound or filters or transitions messing up the pass between final cut and color. Try doing the same, just duplicate or copy your timeline to a new timeline. I would have rendered your footage out to ProRes however as using the DVC Pro codec is probably not ideal. Color also only works with actual full raster files, not so good going from HDV or DVC Pro as they have an anamorphic frame size. This may be causing issues also.

Color to FCP contrast shift (DPX files only...)

I have a Color sequence which has a mix of raw .R3D files from the RED, and DPX files from VFX work... When I grade, and then send the sequence to FCP, the files which started out as .r3d files, have correct color contrast; however, the clips that are DPX files, seem to have their black levels raised... I am rendering to proRes 4444 quicktime files for everything, and this color-shift is consistent for every clip that originated as DPX files.
In Color the waveforms and scopes of the DPX sequences, all read correctly (blacks are at 0, and whites at 100), but when brought into FCP, the contrast seems off, and this is confirmed by the scopes in FCP (black levels are consistently raised to around 10 or so...).
Trying to sort it out, and will post any solutions I can come up with, but any thoughts in the mean time would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
-Brian

Thanks for your response JP, however I am not quite sure that it is quite what I need (unless I am misunderstanding you...). I can't adjust the scaling on export, because I am not rendering to DPX, but rather to ProRes 444 (I could adjust each clip on import, but that would render the LUT and current corrections pretty much useless....). Let me try to explain a bit further...
We are importing the DPX sequences (95-685 Log) as Linear (0-1023), and then using an LUT to correct for the LOG space during CC. For the time being we are rendering with the LUT in place because we are outputting to video (the film-out will come later....). The workflow for the RED footage is pretty much the same (gamma settings in the RED tab are set to PDLog685, and the same LUT is used for CC)... Upon render (to ProRes 444), the RED footage renders correctly, with blacks at 0, however the DPX footage acquires some sort of contrast shift which puts the blacks at around 5-10 IRE...
For the time being we can apply a quick 3wayCC back in FCP and adjust the black levels for the affected clips back to where they should be, but it would be really nice to know/understand exactly where the problem is occurring...
Sorry if I misunderstood your response, and feel free to correct me if I did. Thanks!
-Brian

Color shifts when exporting a picture sequence in both FCP/Compressor

For a project I had to make a movie from still images. I imported the .tiff files and edited them in the right order. Then I added transitions and motion to the images (zoom in or zoom out). When I playback the sequence in Final Cut Pro everything looked perfectly fine. But when I exported to Quicktime... from both Final Cut Pro itself as from Compressor I got strange color shifts. I rendered like 10 times and every time two or three photo's were affected with a purple/blueish haze over them. Finally, the 11 time I tried it rendered as it was supposed to. It felt like playing Russian roulette.
The question that is bugging me: what can have caused this?
I tried both HDV and ProRes as timeline setting. What is the best setting for working with still images? And is .tiff the best format to work with or can I better convert to .png or .jpeg?
I hope someone can tell me what happened that horrible night.

The problem is that you haven't answered Jerry's question. it is very difficult to troubleshoot these sort of questions from a distance if you don't systematically check for the obvious things. Jerry is one of the best resources here and if he suggests a possible solution, it's a good idea to explore that first.
Message was edited by: Michael Grenadier

PLEASE HELP - COLOR SHIFTING PROBLEM on output NTSC monitors

http://www.smmlv.com/testproject/
Above is a link to a layered photoshop file that has a USA map and over a dozen network overlays used in a section of our video. I animate each layer on sepeartely in the video and have noticed a major problem recently, the color of the art does not hold true to placement. I created the art originally in Illustrator and then converted the file to Photoshop at 640x480, 72dpi. This has always worked perfectly in the past to display and animated artwork in FCP.
Right now, in FCP I am using the NTSC DV 3:2 frame size, and the compressor of DV/DVCPRO - NTSC. I have a JVC Profressional DV deck that hooks up through firewire and sends S-Video to my monitors. This setup has always given me a great picture even though it is not completely upcompressed. Using these settings and this art, the color lines on this map in red, light blue, yellow and purple all have a "color shift" to the left about 5 pixels. It makes it appear that the line is where it is in the file, but the color overlaying the line is offset to the left 5 pixels and transperant to about 50%. This occurs only when viewed on some TV's and NTSC monitors and projectors. The strange thing is, some monitors display the color aligned almost perfectly on these maps and other monitors and projectors show this "digital halo" of color shifting really bad. If I take the layered network overlays in these colors and color tint them to black or grey, white, light green, or even light orange, they no longer have the color shifting and the detail is perfect.
Is there any way to fix this problem? I have tried duplicating the sequence and setting the compressor to 8bit Uncompressed, and while my captured footage is not this compression, in theory the art should render at this higher resolution setting. This did nothing to solve the problem.
I also have tried using different Broadcast safe and Y/C corrector filters with different results. The Y/C filter allowed me to reposition the color problem and thus removing most of the problem, but also removing most of the color. Nothing else has allowed me to seemingly move the color into the proper possition.
What is causing this color shift on the displayed NTSC image?
In FCP 4.5 I can see my rendered video in the program viewer screen and besides the pixel compression appearing on the lines, overall the video looks great paused or even better when playing. Then you view it through my deck onto my Pro Sony NTSC 19" color monitor and it also appears great, with a slight color halo to the left of these colors, but the color in the lines are there. If you are a few feet from the screen and know what you are looking for you might see it, but doubtful. Then you view it using the same signal on a 17" Samsung TV and the color shifting makes the map and other art, like the clients blue logo, look horrible, with each color line appearing twice and offset left from each other as if you had double vision. Normally I would think it is the TV causing this, but then we tested this same movie on 2 differnt projectors. The $700 Epson projector displayed everything beautifully, again with only the slightest color halo to the left, but then the Panasonic $4000 projector made everthing in these colors look double vision again. What is going on???
One more thing to keep in mind, my color bars also show this problem with these colors as well as shot footage of these facilities. There are tall red poles in the shots and everything displays fine except for the red pole color looks like it's glowing off the pole to the left.
PLEASE tell me there is a solution to this.

I have tried Degaussing, using filters, changing cables, and testing other monitors and systems on these monitors, everthing I can think of to solve the issue. Is it FCPo or is it the monitors?... or is it a signal strength thing. Can monitors and projectors shift color when the signal is read from a DVD or Mini DV Deck? Is there a fequency difference (Ie: 75mgz or 80 mgz) that might be causing the shift in some monitors and not so badly in others. But if this was true, how would some DVD's (like Baby Einstein DVDs that use really bright colors) display red and blue perfect using these same player and monitor, while my projects is shifting color? Doesn't that rule out the signal from the DVD player if other DVD's do not have this issue?
I have uploaded the original art used, an exported .jpg file from the FCP timeline and sample photos of 2 different monitors to show to show this problem as best I can. http://www.smmlv.com/testproject/
Someone out there must have had this problem before. There's no way a color shift problem like this with Mini DV has gone on this long without someone seeing it.
One last thing about what I have tried... I do understand that with editing in Mini DV instead of uncompressed or HD video I lose a bit of resolution (4:2:2) and I see this compression occuring in some of the areas in the video where these problems persist. But, I did remake the art and rerender this project in an 8bit uncompressed settings and then displayed that up on the screen and I get the same color shift. I keep going in circles trying to find the culprit that is causing the delema.
PLEASE HELP! There are large tours going through our facilities daily and the large screen projector is displaying this problem as well. Let's just hope they don't notice and that their TV's at home or office does not display it on our final DVD's made.

How do I prevent the Darker Shade Box (color shift) around Vector Objects when Printing

Sorry in advance for the novelette. I am absolutely mystified and frustrated and would love some help! I've been working on this problem for about 30 hours over the last 4 days to figure out what the heck is happening and cannot find an answer through various forms of research.
Basically, when I print a JPEG, I am getting this area (a box) of darker shaded coloring around my heart and love text. I've tested it a million different ways and am at a loss as to what the problem is ... is it an application problem, a color profile problem between my applications and printer, an improper way that I saved my file, etc.
Here is a photo I took of the image printed out (so it is slightly skewed from camera distortion):
The details:
(1) I create graphic art and sell it online. I save all of my printable art as JPEG files because of my customer base (diy hobbyists that print on their home printers without much knowledge base nor graphic design software).
(2) I use both Adobe Illustrator (AI) and Photoshop Elements 11 (PSE11) to design and save my artwork.
(3) I insert JPEG images into Microsoft Word 2003 documents to "test print" since most of my customers use home printers to print. Since most people have this basic software, it is a good gauge of the kind of print out they might get using the same or similar software.
(4) My PSE11 color profile setting is the default sRGB. I have test printed many times and I get the truest colors with this color profile.
(5) My AI color settings are normally also an sRGB color mode, but on occasion, I use a CMYK color mode if I am creating a larger document that I know the customer will need to take to a professional printer to print out.
(6) I do my home printing (for proofs) on an Epson Stylus Photo 1400 (which has the 6 color ink cartridges).
(7) Until this printing problem occurred on this test print out, I always used the "photo enhance" option when I designate settings for my printer via the Microsoft Word documents.
IMPORTANT: This is when I have the color shift?? or color rendering issues?? and it is the only time. If I use the regular ICM/ICC color profile of sRGB, the printing issue doesn't occur. Instead, I have a solid color background instead of this one with the strips of lighter color on the top and bottom. However, I can't control how the customer prints, so I need to feel confident that whatever color profile setting they use, they will not run into this problem. I even test printed the documents over at FedEx and the darker box/color shift did not occur.
(8) The document in question only has 3 sets of objects: the heart, the solid colored rectangle colored background and the text. All 3 objects are vectors, they are at 100% opacity and there are no "special effects" applied.
(9) The image was entirely created in AI this time and exported as a maximum quality JPEG file, although you will see below that I tried many ways to create and save the file so that I didn't have the color band borders on top/bottom.
(10) I regularly use AI for part of my art, then I drag it to my PSE11 open document and it becomes a Vector Object (it cannot by copying/pasting into a PSE11 document). I also regularly export AI images as PNG files, then insert them into an open PSE11 document. This printing issue has not occurred until recently. Here is an example of a very complex AI image I created, then inserted into PSE11 just to add the background (the Teddy Bear and books are AI vector objects) that were exported as PNG files then inserted into PSE11 to integrate with the background image - I test printed with Photo Enhance and had no printing issues:
So, from the research I have done, it looks like it is a color rendering or color space issue with conflicting color profiles in the same document. I checked my color profile settings and both sRGB and CMYK were set to embed ICC color profiles.
I tried changing AI settings to Preserve Numbers (ignore linked profiles) for CMYK, but that didn't work.
I also checked and made sure that not only the document setup showed the sRGB color profile, but that all the objects within the document also were converted to sRGB as well for consistency. That didn't work.
I tried converting the document to CMYK along with the vector objects. That didn't work.
I tried saving the heart image as a PNG file alone, the "love" text as a PNG file alone, both the heart and text together as a PNG files alone. Once saved as PNG files, I inserted them into an open empty PSE11 document - as I normally do. I then added the background color I wanted. That didn't work - the print still showed the color changes.
I tried dragging each vector object separately and even as a group and got the same color change issue when printing.
I tried "expanding" and "outlining" the text before exporting as JPEG, before exporting as a PNG and before dragging as a vector object into PSE11. Expanding the text did not help the situation.
I tried exporting as Adobe PDF, then opening in PSE11, then resaving as JPEG. That didn't work.
I tried flattening transparency (even though there is no transparency in the AI file). That didn't work.
I tried rasterizing the image. That didn't work.
Thinking that the file might be corrupt, I started from scratch and redesigned the same heart and love text. Unfortunately, I had the same problem as before. At this point, my AI started becoming buggy and would not open new files. It happened repeatedly and I decided it was best to uninstall and reinstall AI (and maybe that would fix the problem).
I created just the heart in AI, then inserted it into an open PSE11 document (both after exporting as PNG and also by dragging as Vector Object from AI). It seemed to work. I could both drag the vector into PSE11 from AI and export from AI as a PNG, then insert into open PSE11 document with a background color - and it printed a solid background.
So, I thought that reinstalling and setting back to defaults worked. But, then I added the love text around the heart and tried exporting as JPEG files and the same problem continued to recur. Whether I dragged as a Vector object into PSE11 (the heart object and love text separately and also another time with the vector objects dragged as a group) or saved them as PNG files and inserted into PSE11 - I got the different shades of color on what should be a solid background. I even tried saving the PSE11 as a PSD file first, then resaving as JPEG and I tried saving as PNG and printing and this didn't help solve the problem.
I really think it is some color conflict issue but I can't figure it out. I am definitely not very knowledgeable about color profiles and how to sync all my devices, however, as I mentioned, this was not an issue until recently (and I think??? I recall changing the CMYK setting from Preserve Numbers to embed color profile a month or so ago - however, it should have been solved when AI went back to its defaults upon reinstall).
The reason I believe it is a color rendering/color space issue is because I could see the color output when I saved the JPEG with CMYK color profile versus sRGB color profile and the sRGB colors were much richer, not surprisingly. The top and bottom colors matched the sRGB printout and the middle darker box section matched the CMYK printout.
I am sure it is something fundamental or simple and I am completely overlooking it. I wish it were just a transparency issue, because people know how to fix or do workarounds for it. But, there are no vector objects with any transparency ...
If I missed some detail, I apologize. Any help would be a dream come true at this point! lol
Thank you!

Okay, I got motivated to try again. From doing a bit more research on troubleshooting AI printing problems, the Adobe article talks about print drivers. It was advised to uninstall and reinstall the print driver if the printing issue persists. So, I did. Unfortunately, I still had the same result after reinstalling and trying a test print! Ugh.
So, as Jacob said upfront, I seem to have an overactive print driver that is trying too hard (and it is a non-postscript printer which I realize is part of the problem).
There are so many variables in my situation as to how I create art and save/export art. I sometimes work solely in AI, sometimes solely in PSE and sometimes I use both programs to create. Consequently, I will:
(1) export directly from AI as JPEG if I am not adding PSE11 artwork.
(2) export directly from AI as PNG if I plan on inserting that image into PSE11 to add to artwork I have created in PSE11.
(3) drag vector objects as a Smart Objects directly from AI to PSE11 to add to artwork I am creating in PSE11 if I know I will playing with the vector object and resizing in PSE11.
So, I did a test print using scenario 2, where I inserted the heart and love text PNG (AI created vector object) into an old PSE11 document. This old document already had a vector object from AI with a solid background and I knew it printed correctly. So, after inserting this new PNG from AI into this old document, it printed correctly using the photo enhance mode.
However, I haven't had a chance to actually create new art in the older AI files (that I know print properly), resave as something else and try another test print (either by exporting as JPEG and printing in Word or by exporting as PNG file and inserting into PSE11 document, then saving as JPEG and printing in Word).
After testing the different possibilities of ICM settings within my printer, I found that the JPEG images printed out with the truest colors and best quality if I simply selected "no color management" from the printer. Shocker, huh? lol
MY SOLUTION: So, what I think I will simply do is add an instruction sheet with the printables I sell, explaining that the color profile setting should never be handled by the printer so make sure to turn off color management by printer (and if they feel they must use the printer for color management, make sure the setting is sRGB since I embed that color profile in my JPEG's).
Edited to add: Since my issue was never about how I could print a successful image (I knew I could simply change the color profile settings), but rather about how to make sure that customers would get consistent and high quality print outputs of my digital images, this seems like the best approach.
I don't think I will every really know exactly why I am now getting color shifts in the "photo enhance" mode when I did not have this problem a couple months ago - applying the same methods of creating artwork. I was concerned that I was saving/exporting using incorrect or mismatched color settings or something of that nature. However, since I went through the process of making my color spaces the same for everything, and I still have issue, clearly that is not the culprit. The only thing I can do to solve the problem and it is a straightforward solution anyway -> is to educate the buyer on how to print successfully (don't use photo enhance! ha ha).
Thanks again to everyone who chimed in and offered advice!

Looking for a better solution to the "Save for web" color shift issue

Ok, everyone who has fussed much with photoshop and "Save For Web" knows about the color shift issue. If you want your colors to look right after you "save for web", you have to work in the sRGB colorspace, and have Proof Colors checked (soft proofing on) and the proof color setup set to Monitor RGB, otherwise what you get looks terrible when displayed in a browser.
But of course if you are editing for print, this is exactly what you DON'T want to do. Well, I work in both. In fact, often the same images, and I want them to appear as close as reasonably possible in both print and web formats, and without a lot of fussing on my part. And I'm pickiest about the print mode, since I have the most control there, so that's the way I want to edit by default.
Nothing new here.
Now comes the interesting part (in my mind, anyway). Obviously there is a known remapping -- because PhotoShop DOES it when you select Proof Colors. So the inverse mapping must also be known (with some gamut issues, but I'm not concerned with those, because, after all, I'm VIEWING it on a monitor anyway!). What I want is a plug-in that automatically applies that inverse mapping so that, when I do a Save For Web, I end up with the colors I've been viewing all the time when setting the shot up in print mode. Then, too, I don't have to worry about what mode I'm in when I'm editing -- it just fixes it when doing a save-for-web.
Again, I want to edit in my normal print mode (typically ProPhoto colorspace, and with soft-proofing off or set to the printer/medium combination I expect to use), then do a single operation (might be a multi-step action) to "screw up" my colors so that when I then do a "Save-For-Web", the resulting image, when viewed on the average color-stupid browser, looks like the image I've been seeing in Photoshop.
Anyone know of such a beast? I would gladly pay for a plug-in that really works and fixes the problem.
And if you have other solutions, I'm interested, but the absolute requirement is that it I do one single edit pass for my colors for both print and web use, and I get what I see on the screen in PS on both the prints and on the web display (i.e., working in sRGB/Monitor RGB mode all the time won't cut it). And PREFERABLY, let me do all my editing work in the ProPhoto (or at least AdobeRGB) colorspace so I have a gamut closer to what the printer can do.
Anyone got a decent solution for this?

Chris
I spent all day Googling and doing side by side comparisons of my old and new systems.
My display is a Dell U2410. It has several presets, including sRGB and Adobe RGB. I've been using sRGB.
On my OLD system, (Win XP, PsCS2, DwCS4) there seems to be no distinction between color managed and non color managed apps, even on this wide gamut display. I could capture (digital camera) in Adobe RGB, open and edit in PsCS2, save as .psd, convert to CMYK for print, or convert to sRGB for SFW. All images looked identical and they printed and displayed perfectly. I thought this was normal, and seemed logical. This also seems to be the source of my incorrect assumptions. I was trying to get my new machine to behave like my old one.
So I get this new machine (Windows 7, PsCS5, DwCS5) and now (still in sRGB display mode) all color managed apps appear de-saturated. Non color managed apps are OK. If I switch the display to Adobe RGB, color managed apps are OK, but non color managed apps are way too saturated. From my investigation, I believe this is normal behavior on a wide gamut display. I've tried changing the Control Panel > Display > Screen Resolution > Advanced settings > Color Management options, but to no avail. Either I'm missing something, or Windows 7 is doing color management differently.
It seems my only option now is to use Adobe RGB display setting for Ps, etc. and switch to sRGB for Dw and non color managed apps. Or, have 2 separate files for print and web. I've Googled 'til my eyes are numb and still not sure I'm getting this. Any enlightenment would be greatly appreciated.
Finally, I don't see an edit function here, so I can't remove my previous incorrect reply. Moderator, please feel free to do so.
Thanks

Solution to Gamma/Color Shift Problems with Apple Codecs - Adobe BUG

Hi....
In AfterEffects when choosing an output module and that module be ProRes or 10 Bit Uncompressed,
when trying to color manage the file, there is a fine line called
'This Codec Does Not Support Output Profile'
You can find it int he Color Management Pane of the output module....
Funny thing is - That Profile Embedding IS support by:#
Apple's Compressor and THE CODEC 4444 AND UnCompressed
Episodes Encoder
See following Screen Shots:
First one from Apple's Compressor...
Look at that little beautiful Color Option... Adobe did you MISS that one, perhaps...
You must have - because your APPS are NOT including that when encoding or should I say
butchering movie files....
Here adobes famous but wrong dialog!!!!
And in this next screen shot you can easily see that adobe just strips the color profile out of the file...
AND THAT IS WHY THERE IS A COLOR SHIFT...........
left image = Apple's Compressor Encoding (Colors match of course) - Right Adobe's BRUTAL encoding (Colors WONT match...)
Now, in after effects you wont notice the shift. But ALL mac and PC users using quicktime to watch YOUR movies
are going to be looking at a movie with a different look than you thought it WOULD be... Courtesy of adobe ;-)
Jokes aside, Adobe.... It seems as if this one is on you to fix... Apple's Compressor has NO problems. And other encoders are also preserving those values.
Now... Let us assume that I encode in compressor... Looks are matching 100% that of the original source. All it takes to mess that up is ONE
roundtrip to after effects, premiere pro or Media Encoder. That is if I wanna maintain my initial choice of transcodec - in my case 4444 or 10bit Uncomp.
I could of course export to animation and then use compressor AGAIN to transcode to my format of choice... But in the long run I think that will become tedious.
Perhaps you could assign a few engineers on this one and in the future spend MORE time on living up to the name PRO(The most misused word in the software business) instead of wasting time generating new Application icons for your apps....
Thanks for reading and for a PROMPT and near-future BUG FIX

Mylenium wrote:
It's not really "embedding" anything, it merely sets the QT color space flags which have been there forever, but are mostly unused. Specific to ProRes it also toggles different internal optimizations in the encoding. That's also documented somewhere on the QT developer pages. I'm not sure I share your views otherwise. The point really is, that Apple developed ProRes just as much as a closed workflow within their products as Avid did with their CoDecs. Therefore the widespread use of the CoDecs is merely a byproduct of the use of the products, but not per se an intended workflow outside of those and, which is the more important part, also not explicable as a causal circumstance of the quality. If I may be so bold: What you are saying sounds like everyone would be using the Animation CoDec because it is so good, when the simple fact is that there are no decent free cross-platform alternatives and people are willing to accept limitations because of that. Don't get me wrong, ProRes is well designed and pretty robust, but the world doesn't come to an end without it and outside the Mac world it is difficult to deal with. Hell, it's even difficult to deal with between different versions of FCP occasionally...
Mylenium
I have been testing codecs for a long long looooooong time. My criterion(s) are:
1) Image Quality and that through multiple encoding generations and color grading
THEEEN
a looooong way down the road
2) Performance
BTW - I find that working with files less compressed and thus HUGE is much better. Hard drives are so cheap that one can build himself an 8 Disk RAID0 and that takes care of everything. In PPRO I can cut real time in FulRes with an uncompressed codec with the processors maxing at 3% while the H264 editing sequence will stutter like a drunken wasp and maxing the CPUs at 63%.... Go figure...
ProRes 4444's impeccable imageQuality:performance ratio, is unbeaten.
Especially on H264 material like that of the Canon5D. You might say if the source is 4:2:0 why bother upping it to 4444... Well in theory perhaps
it is overkill. But rather than reading in theoretical white papers I conduct my own tests. And the end results are (REALITY) and way different from what theory states. TO anyone reading this. DONT believe ANYTHING you read about codec nor what I am saying.... DO YOUR OWN TESTING and judge for yourself. Problem is that you have to do 100's and 100's of transcodings with ONE source to various destinations with lost of grading and transcoding generation. THEN you have to keep track of your tests and THEN compare them. It takes WEEKs. But it is well worth while it. In my case... I start with a Canon5DMKII H264 movies. Transcode it to PRORES4444 then I do LOTS of compositing and re-encoding then lots of color grading etc etc etc. Then I export back to H264 - and the end result is STUNNING has NO artifacts and is adorable to look at. Not so with at least 6 other codecs claiming to be top-notch....
Sure Mylenium, the world would NOT end with PR4444 not in it... BUT the WORLD has ALREADY decided that it WANTED ProRes4444 in it. It is growing and that every day..........
Had the codec not been so darn excellent - it would NOT have been used. Period.

Edit With - Photoshop color shift

When using Edit With -> Photoshop with my 12 and 14-bit NEF files, the resulting file (after editing in PS) has a color shift. Same happens when I export a Version as 16-bit TIFF or PSD and then re-import it into Aperture.
I have tried it with 8-bit JPGs from camera, and the shift does not occur. Has anyone come across this problem and have a remedy? Your help would be greatly appreciated guys, thanks!

Ah, thanks for the tip. I've changed my Photoshop color settings to warn me when opening files with embedded color profiles. I simply choose to work in the embedded profile and upon saving and returning to Aperture, no longer notice any color shift. Thanks again!

Save For Web Color incorrect color shifting

SFW (CS3) isn't functioning correctly, or perhaps I'm missing a pref or configuration.
When I go to SFW, the image in the SFW window no matter what setting or level (even 100%) and resulting file is lighter, as in washed out, from it's PSD parent.
Even viewing the Original from within SFW is not the at the original levels. It's washed out.
As a test, if I do a Save As from the same PSD parent to a JPEG at 12, the file is the same level quality as it's PSD parent as expected/desired.
As such, SFW is unusable for me.
CS3, Mac Pro Quade Core 2x3GHz, OSX 10.5.5

Thanks Ann. Here's what I have:
In Edit > Color Settings:
Working Spaces: RGB sRGB IEC...
Color Mgmt Polices: Convert to Working RGB
Convert to Profile:
Source Space Profile: sRGB IEC..
Conversion Options:
Engine: Adobe ACE
Intent: Perceptual
Use Black Point Compensation (√)
Use Dither (√)
In SFW: Convert to sRGB is selected
I'm looking at a head shot 72 dpi and the woman's face is lighter using these settings from within SFW looking at what SFW calls "Original" versus the real original outside of SFW.
Saving a SFW jpg at 100% yields a lighter image than doing a Save As jpg at 12.
I have both a HP LP3065 30" and Apple 22" Cinema display and the SFW processed file is lighter on both screens. Although the SFW Original is lighter on the HP than when looking at same on the Cinema. But the output is lighter and consistent viewing on both displays. Lighter than should be.
The Cinema is set to Apple's stock "Apple Cinema Display" profile and HP doesn't support us with a Mac calibrator, but I did the best I could with Apple's - in Prefs > Display.
Regardless, it seems that SFW is the problem (in my logical but limited color mgmt knowledge). I can save as a Save As jpg and get the expected color level consistent with the original on both my HP and Cinema. Isn't this the deciding factor? The consistency across both. Wouldn't that point to SFW being the problem, since Save As works correctly?
And Peter, I totally agree with you, we need to search first. I did on "Save For Web Color Shifting" but didn't find it. I found other SFW issues, but somehow not my issue. Still, my apologies.
Thanks to both.

Color shift from Photoshop to InDesign?

I'm using Adobe's Creative Cloud family of apps, which have been color synchronized with Adobe Bridge using the North American General Purpose 2 color setting. All of the files I'm working with are set to CMYK. My Photoshop files are set to 8 bits/channel.
I just placed several .psd files in an InDesign document and there is a rather large color shift, with the placed image in InDesign being much darker than the Photoshop image. In addition, and even with InDesign's Display Performance set to "High Quality Display", the placed image is not as crisp as the Photoshop image.
So, my questions are:
Why is there a large color shift between both apps?
Why is the placed image not as clean as the Photoshop image?
What can I do to fix both issues?
Thanks in advance for your help.

First and foremost, do you have a high-quality monitor, and is it properly calibrated and profiled (using an instrument)? Without that, judging color on-screen is like picking the best picture at the TV dealer.
When you place an image in ID you are looking at a screen preview, not the pixels you see in Photoshop. View > Display Quality > High Quality Display will get you the best quality preview, but it's still just a preview. Turning on Overprint Preview will give you the most accurate color rendition for CMYK.

Color shift when exporting to sRGB (mac)

I just noticed the following: when I export an image (shot with my Nikon D80, RAW, developed from within Lightroom 2) as JPEG, 100%, sRGB color space, I get a strange color shift towards red, more saturated colors. Everything looks great when I view my image after export from within Finder or Apple Preview. However, when I drag that same file into the browser (Firefox) or then order prints from a photo service, the heavy red color shift is noticable. I've attached an image for you guys to see what I mean.
What am I doing wrong? Can someone please help?
I'm thinking that it might have to do with my color calibration? (I calibrated my monitor using the Spyder3 Elite device)
Edit: By the way, I just turned off my color calibration (changed display profiles), but that didn't fix the problem. Also, the color shift is not visible in Safari (I guess it is able to handle color profiles and Firefox isn't). But still, the color shift is there if I upload photos to a photo printing service and order prints. So, maybe there's something wrong with the color profile that Lightroom embeds in the JPEG file??

Problem continues (2)...
...from both Nikon and Canon RAW sources (I use a 5D MkII), but is it an LR3 issue or a Mac issue? Having read all the posts, I'm still struggling, but here's my contribution.
A while ago I noticed that colour files, once uploaded to the net, were way too red and saturated as per image below. Resolutions attempted so far below (all to no avail):
Tested different web browsers; found Firefox and Safari to be similar (to each other), Chrome very much brighter, but none of them are even close to original, so I'm not sure the Firefox loss of colour management mentioned by another contributor explains the issue.
Change web display vehicle; I find the same on my new web site as I did on Jalbum and various others.
Calibrate monitor (of course). Screen to output is 99% perfect on this monitor, when soft proofed with correct ICC profiles, so I very much doubt the wide gamut monitor is at fault. (I do find it hard to agree with the notion of it being the wide gamut screen. The whole point of a wide gamut screen is that it cn show a wider range of colours (e.g. in Adobe 98), and when an image's colour space is reduced (e.g. to sRGB) a wide gamut screen can still show that - especially if it is the same screen that didn't have this problem a year ago...).
Looked at images on a narrow-gamut screen. Same problem.
Changed colour space from Adobe 98 to ProPhoto in LR3 & CS3. Suspected mismatch between LR3 and CS3 because RAW files converted to DNG and edited in LR3, then pixel edited in CS3 and returned to LR3, come back in a different colour. Using ProPhoto has resolved that particular problem, but made no difference to faulty JPG display once on net.
Tested JPG conversion compared to other file formats; match between JPG and original RAW and PSD files perfect, whether displayed in LR3, CS3 or Preview, and whether exported to JPG from LR3, CS3 or Bridge. Problem definitely only occurs once images are on web.
Does anybody know anyone who doesn't have this issue and is using LR3 on a Mac with CS3 and OS 10.5.8?
Any updates or new ideas most welcome.

Color shift when using save for web

Hello,
I am converting my psd files to jpegs using "save for web". I am noticing that the colors are shifting from the original after saving for web. The color shift does not happen if I just convert the psd files to jpegs by using "save as". The psds have a profile of RGB1998. I am using CS3 and my monitor is color calibrated.
Do I need to convert the psd documents to sRGB first before I go to "save for web"?
The preview doesn't look any different if I check ICC profile in the save for web window. I have been told that you are not supposed to embed the ICC profile in the document when saving for web because most monitors are untagged.
Anyway I am wondering if I have to accept a color shift when saving for web or is there something I can do to get the saved for web jpegs to more closely match the original psd?
Thanks a lot for your help.

I think the reason why this question is asked often is because the FAQ entry is pretty lame and incomplete, especially for Mac users that by default have a color managed browser and by default have a screwed up rendering mechanism for untagged images.
Depending on your version of Photoshop, you can convert to sRGB before or during the Save for Web operation.
cesspool13 wrote:
...I have been told that you are not supposed to embed the ICC profile in the document when saving for web because most monitors are untagged.
You convert to sRGB for the systems that do not fully support color management.
and...
You include the sRGB ICC profile for the systems that do support color management.
Doing both covers your bum in most situations. You may choose to omit the ICC profile if you are working on common interface graphics that do not require strict color management. The ICC profile adds a few kilobytes to the file size that are not necessary on lesser graphic elements on a web page.

Color shift appears as square behind circle shapes when printing

When I place a a circle with text within on top of a picture, there is a color shift in the shape of a square behind. anyone experienced this before?

Looks like the issue in the CM thread.
I'm trying to replicate the issue but haven't done it yet. Still grasping at straws
1. Did the ID doc ever undergo Convert to Profile?
2. In Swatch Panel do "Add unnamed colors". Make sure the grayscale is colored with swatches, not colors created in the Color Picker
3. Do the color values in the swatches have crazy decimal values? Is the color mode of the swatches CMYK?
4. What format are the grayscale links - TIFF or PSD?
5. Make certain they are links, not embedded (I'm sure they are links though)
6. The colorization - are there tints applied to the object colors, or are they 100%?

AE to PSD to FCP color shift

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