Airbrush banding??

Has anyone here experienced airbrush banding, as well as gradient banding?  I have my brush set to transfer, pen pressure and smoothing.  It seems when I try to lay down a smooth gradient with the airbrush I get this banding effect.  If I brush over the same stroke there's a dark spot that forms like a bullet eye that gets bigger and bigger.  It's the same with gradients.  Any idea how to fix this?  Thanks.           

Thanks Trevor,  I tried working in 16 bit as well and I get the same thing.  Here's a picture of what I'm talking about.  Thanks.

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  • Really bad banding and artifacts in 16-bit layered greyscale file. Bad banding is retained when converted to 8-bit with No flattening. Flatten 16-bit image and banding and artifacts disappear even with no dither or noise layer. Is this a known bug?

    Has anyone else experienced this?
    I thought it was a monitor problem at first, but I'm using a 10-bit per channel Eizo. It seems to be a Photoshop bug based on many layers interacting with each other. When I flatten everything is fine. But I need to work on this image with layers and decent fidelity. Interestingly when I convert to 8-bit without flattening (and utilising the dither function to potentially reduce banding even further), it uses the terrible artifact laden/banding to do the conversion even though when I zoom into 1:1 in my 16-bit document it looks fine. But 50% or 25% zoom I suddenly get these awful artifacts.
    Here's some screenshots to clarify. Please note I've used Photoshop for 24 years so I'm no slouch but this is the first time I've seen this. The problem is I need to do some subtle airbrush and texture work on this and it's almost unusable unless I flatten (please note, it does the same in the original 8-bit file and just to say I Gaussian-Blurred every layer with a 30px radius after converting to 16-bit so the there's no longer any 8-bit information in there or reasons for banding/artifacts). I can only think it is some of bug in Photoshop's layering engine.
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    Not sure these embedded images will work.
    8% zoomed - see all the strange banding and triangular artifacts
    <a href="http://imgur.com/izrGuia"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/izrGuia.png" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>
    Flattened view - all smooth:
    <a href="http://imgur.com/Pn35IAK"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/Pn35IAK.png" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>
    50% zoom, still there:
    <a href="http://imgur.com/Z207hFd"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/Z207hFd.png" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>
    100% artifacts disappear:
    <a href="http://imgur.com/6aGOz0V"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/6aGOz0V.png" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>
    100% 16-bit layered
    <a href="http://imgur.com/0XJfe5e"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/0XJfe5e.png" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>
    and finally 8-bit layered converted from 16-bit with dither.
    <a href="http://imgur.com/PSxiu43"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/PSxiu43.png" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>
    help!

    I can't speak to why, perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I can speak to that.   But if it only happens at certain views then it's purely a display issue; it won't happen in print or when you downsample to display size.  Such banding issues have always disappeared for me when I output to 8 bit.
    I'd assume that it's because of your monitor; it can't display all the colors and when zoomed out there's too wide of a range in a small area so banding occurs.  But that's just my guess.

  • Gradient Banding

    Over the years, working with Illustrator, I've come to expect that Illustrator just has issues with creating gradients, and the only way to get a good smoothly transitioned gradient is to use Photoshop. I'm  really suprised that Adobe hasn't  solved this by now. I've been reading posts about gradient banding only in dark shadows, that the banding goes away when printing, or people just trying to say that a particular gradient just can't be recreated due to the limitations of a mathmatically defined gradient. I understand completely that the gradients in Illustrator are mathmatically defined, but essentially, so are the gradients in Photoshop, even if they end up being rendered as a bitmap, correct? I also understand that images can have stepped gradients as a result of either color profile gamuts, or bit depth, however the banding I've run into is not a result of monitor issues, limited color gamut, bit depth, or excessively dark gradients and the banding is in Illustrator, shows up in the exported file (tiff, I've also tried rasterizing the AI file in Photoshop with 16bit bit depth and still got banding) as well as prints, because it's IN the file. Below is a Tiff file that shows a gradient created in Illustrator CS6 on the left, Photoshop in the middle and the original art from Illustrator on the right. You won't be able to see the banding in the file unless you download it and view it at 100%.
    So, the question is, is there a workaround in Illustrator, or a alternate way of creating gradients directly in Illustrator that will prevent this banding that I've somehow been missing in the 10 years I've been working with it? Also, Adobe, is anyone there trying to solve this problem?
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    Over the years...I've come to expect that Illustrator just has issues with creating gradients...
    And what other vector drawing programs have you used which have no occurrence of gradient banding?
    ...and the only way to get a good smoothly transitioned gradient is to use Photoshop.
    Contrary to popular misconception, raster imaging is not immune to gradient banding. Consider: Everything you view on your monitor is a raster image.
    I'm really suprised that Adobe hasn't solved this by now....I understand completely that the gradients in Illustrator are mathmatically defined, but essentially, so are the gradients in Photoshop, even if they end up being rendered as a bitmap, correct?... Also, Adobe, is anyone there trying to solve this problem?
    What do you expect Adobe to do about math?
    I've been reading posts about gradient banding only in dark shadows, that the banding goes away when printing, or people just trying to say that a particular gradient just can't be recreated due to the limitations of a mathmatically defined gradient.
    This has been discussed at length many times in this forum. What part of what you've read do you not understand, or to what specifically do you take exception?
    I also understand that images can have stepped gradients as a result of either color profile gamuts, or bit depth, however the banding I've run into is not a result of monitor issues, limited color gamut, bit depth, or excessively dark gradients...
    How do you know the banding you're seeing is not a result of any of those issues?
    ...and the banding is in Illustrator, shows up in the exported file (tiff, I've also tried rasterizing the AI file in Photoshop with 16bit bit depth and still got banding)...
    Where are you viewing the Illustrator, TIFF, and Photoshop grads? (On your monitor.)
    ...as well as prints, because it's IN the file.
    It's in what you're viewing (the print). To see if the same banding pattern is in the image file, open the image file, count the bands, and actually measure and compare the pixel color values between the bands.
    Below is a Tiff file that shows a gradient created in Illustrator CS6 on the left, Photoshop in the middle and the original art from Illustrator on the right.
    No, below is a JPEG assembled from screenshots from your monitor.
    You won't be able to see the banding in the file unless you download it and view it at 100%.
    You can see the banding at multiple zooms. The bands change because of the resampling that your video system performs when it resamples on the fly when zooming or scaling.
    ...is there a workaround in Illustrator, or a alternate way of creating gradients directly in Illustrator that will prevent this banding that I've somehow been missing in the 10 years I've been working with it?
    There is no workaround that will prevent all banding in all grads in all situations in Illustrator or any other program. So you'll have to be much more methodical and specific in your question if you really want to understand what is going on.
    All images have banding, just as all raster images have "jaggies" (square-shaped pixels). The issue in both matters is to make them fine enough to be negligible. Visible "jaggies" is a mathematical conseqence involving the factors of pixel size and halftone dot size. Similarly, visible banding is a mathematical consequence involving the factors of number of tones (for each color channel or separation ink) that an imaging device (monitor or press) can render, and the distances spanned by each possible value step.
    When you send a linear grad command to a PostScript device, you are sending a command to vary from color A to color B across distance D in however many steps the device can handle. The device does what it physically can within its hardware limitations. Same is true for your monitor. But the limitations differ between the devices.
    So the banding you see on your monitor differs from the banding you will see on your desktop printer and from the banding you will see on film seps and from the banding you will see on press. The specifics depend on the specifics of the artwork and the imaging systems.
    Your monitor can display 32 bit color. But how many of those values are available to paint a gradient across a distance depends on how many different colors--and how different they are--to be displayed across how many monitor pixels.
    Your desktop printer has a fixed number of printer spots. The printer spots are used to build up halftone dots of varying size. How many different sizes of halftone dots (how many levels of gray) the printer can build is a mathematical function between the number of printer spots and the number of halftone dots available within a given distance. If the differences in adjacent tones (for each color separation involved) is finer than the differences between possible gray levels of the halftone screen, posterization occurs and you see it as bands in a linear grad.
    An imagesetter has a greater number of printer spots and can therefore build more different sizes of halftone dots for any given halftone ruling than can your desktop printer. So it is less prone to banding because it is able to render more levels of gray. But it is not immune. You can still exceed its possibilities by demanding finer differences in tone steps than it can reproduce.
    Banding is quite often ameleorated in print because (depending on the number of component inks involved in the subject color), the bands occur at different places on each color separation. So the resulting bands in the composite are narrower than on the individual seps, and therefore less evident. The same principle occurs on your desktop printer, but at a courser scale, because it is still a lower resolution device.
    Banding is just as likely to occur in mathematically applied linear grads in raster imaging. The rasterization is not deferred to print time, it goes ahead and occurs. But the same principle applies. You are still telling the program to change the values of a fixed number of pixels in 8-bit channels. The result is being displayed on your monitor's array of pixels. When printed, the result is being rendered on the printer's (or film's) array of halftone dots. So the banding quite likely occurs at different locations from where they occur on your monitor. In other words, I don't care what you're doing, your monitor is a poor simulation of the banding that will occur in final print. For one thing, everything you see on your monitor involves three "separations" (RGB), not four.
    The myth that raster imaging is somehow magically immune to banding stems from the fact that raster images are very frequently not really linear grads, but scattered dithering patterns (otherwise known as noise). If you use a linear grad tool in a raster image program to paint a linear grad across a broad distance of pixels, you can create banding just as you would in a vector-based program. If you do, then the bands are "nailed down" (rasterization is not deferred to print time) and if the imaging device has sufficient resolution, it will faithfully reproduce that same banding.
    Back when raster file size was a much greater issue than it is nowadays, there were 8-bit raster imaging programs (Color It! being one example) which could make beautiful images using only 256 different colors. How did they do it? By effective use of dithering. The differences in adjacent colors were greater than those of a 24-bit image. But they were mixed and scattered so as to simulate additional colors, just as the droplets from an airbrush spraying a single color can result in the perception of multiple tones, just  as a halftone screen does the same thing. Well, the nature of raster imaging is like that. Zoom way into what looks like a smoothly graduated sky and you'll see that it is in fact a scattered mixture of different values (noise).
    Vector-based grads don't involve noise. They're just mathematical commands sent to the printer's interpreter. If you must, though, you can assign noise as a raster effect to your vector objects, and it can reduce visible banding because what you would really be sending to the printer ultimately is a dithered raster image.
    So you just have to use some educated (i.e.; experienced) discernment when creating grads and when interpreting what you see on your monitor. And bear the general rules-of-thumb in mind:
    The greater the distance spanned, the fewer component inks involved, the smaller the color change, the lower resolution the imaging device...the greater the likelihood of banding.
    Set up some simple tests using simple grads in methodically arranged different values. You can build such a test array on a single page, just as you would build an array of color chips. Print it. Study the results.
    JET

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    This question was solved.
    View Solution.

    Csiga wrote:
    ... there is no "band" tab on the phone settings. Instead of the band tab I have a PIN tab. So my phone settings look like this: Services - Network -PIN/PIN2 (where the band tab should be) - ALS - Beacon - More. I've looked for a band tab pretty much everywhere on this phone but there isn't one.
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