Airport (802.11n) and WDS

Hi,
Does someone can tell me what "speed" will I get with two Airport 802.11N with WDS setup ?
I alreday know that a WDS with an Airport 802.11N and an Airport Express or Extreme won't get better than the slowless one : 802.11g.
Thanks
HDR

You'll get 54mbit between the two airport extremes...
Technically yes but the bandwidth available to any client is really only 27 Mbps since all data must make 2 hops and no other data can be transmitted during either hop. Other data can not be transmitted because both base stations are using the same channel.
So if the client requested 54 Mb, it would take one second to go from AEBS_1 to AEBS_2 and then another second to go from AEBS_2 to client. Therefore the total bandwidth is:
(54 Mb)/(2 sec) = 27 Mbps
Don't know where you got 104 Mbps but if the clients were able to use that speed to connect to AEBS_2, the data would take .519 seconds on the second hop. The overall bandwidth would then be:
(54 Mb)/(1.519 sec) = 35.5 Mbps
Regardless of how you slice it, WDS makes a drastic cut on your available bandwidth.

Similar Messages

Airport Extreme 802.11n and WDS with 802.11g express

I have an 802.11n Airport Extreme that I have been using with my AppleTV. I have it set to allow for 802.11b/g, since I have an old Powerbook Titanium that cannot be upgraded.
I recently decided to add my Airport Express 802.11g to the mix to act as a bridge for a remote, wired computer. I did this by enabling WDS on the Extreme/Express.
My question is this: by enabling WDS on the extreme, will the AppleTV still be able to connect at 802.11n speeds, or does it get pulled back to 11g? Is there any way to verify/check this on either the Extreme or the AppleTV?
Thanks,
keith

You can check the connection speed of each wireless client attached to a base station using Airport Utility. Launch Airport Utility, click on the Airport button in the toolbar. On the Summary tab you'll see an item called Wireless clients. It shows you how many wireless client devices are connected to that base station.
Click on the words Wireless Clients and you'll get a graph and a list. The graph shows the signal strength of each client. The list shows the client's wireless MAC, the signal and noise levels and the rate at which each device is communicating. On my Extreme-n base stations, I regularly see rates from 1 to 130 and everything inbetween. It looks like each device runs at it's best rate based on signal strength and error rate.
Assuming you know the MAC of your Apple TV (it's on the serial number label) you can see what wireless data rate it's getting this way.
The thing I've noticed is that my Extreme-g base stations seem to connect to clients at higher average rates than my Extreme-n units. In other words, on the g units I'll see more clients at 54 (the max) or 48 and on the n units just a couple will connect at 130 or 54 but most are at lower rates like 27 or 11 (even 2 or 1), even when they are in the same room as the base station.
I find that very odd and would like to understand it. Anybody have any ideas?

AEBS(802.11n) and WDS with Express or Extreme

This problem is making me doubt my sanity.
I have an Extreme Basestation and and Express and a new AEBSn.
I previoulsy set up the Extreme as the WDS master and the Express as a Relay.
Now the AEBSn is the master and I can NOT get either of the other two Apple routers to connect and function as WDS Relay stations or WDS Remote stations. I have attempted both using manual configuration following exactly the same steps I did with the Extreme/Express combination.
But it will not work. Neither the Extreme nor the Express will connect to the AEBSn. I do note that the AEBSn does not have a WDS page or tab in Airport Utility but I did select "Allow this network to be extended" and I selected Create a wireless network.
Does anyone know how to make this work? Does it work?
Thanks for any suggestions.

.. the automated system, i'm assuming that you mean selecting next, next next.
Correct - except the word on my Airport Utility is "Continue"
then after the first reboot and the configuration is loaded, go into manual and select "Allow this network to be extended",
Correct - and be sure to turn off Access Control and turn off "Create a closed network". Once you have both basestations configured and working, you can go back in manually and set those options if you need those two extra levels of security.
..it tells me that it can't find any networks to connect to!!
Always make sure you have updated the software and the firmware for both basestations and for your computers. There have been several Airport connect bug and fixes, both to the basestations and to the Airport cards in the computers. And make sure you have the lastest version of the Airport Utility.
(When I first loaded 10.4.10 I screwed up all my wireless connections. I had to go back, reinstall the OS and use the Combo updater to update to 10.4.9 before my wireless would work. Later, on these forums, I learned that the 10.4.10 update had some issues in the first release. About two months after the initial release, I updated to 10.4.10 - using the Combo, NOT Delta - updater and finally had reliable wireless connections.)
Once other note: I have done a LOT of work on my neighbor's LAN. I finally figured out that their ISP's modem had NATs and DHCP running on the modem. I could not make their network work until I turned off NATs and DHCP on the LAN router (bridge mode). Make sure you do not have DHCP/NATs conflicts with your ISP's modem.
Leave the second device unplugged until you have the first basesetation configured and you can connect to it wirelessly. Disconnect your Ethernet cables to make sure there are no conflicting IP addresses or host names.
Once you have connected to the first basestation, then open Airport Utility and wait for the second device to come up.
Do not double click on the second basestation. Just click it once to select it then click "Continue" . Read all of the options carefully. I do not remember the exact language but one option is to connect to or expand and existing network. Once you get to that point, it is fairly simple.
Good luck! Let me know if it works.

Severe interference between Airport Extreme (802.11n) and my Cable Modem

This post is in reference to http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=897496&tstart=30
The root cause of the problem reported in the above post was determined to be a case of severe electrical interference between the 802.11n device and a Motorola Cable modem supplied by Comcast. I can provide the modem model number for anyone wanting it.
I found that at least 12" spacing is required between the 802.11n and the modem to avoid any significant interference.
I also found that if these two devices are physically adjacent the data rate performance thru the modem can reduce to almost zero.
I speculate that the 802.11n is radiating so much radio energy that it causes electrical interference with the modem's function.
N.B. The Airport Snow does not exhibit this same electrical interference.

I would connect the xbox 360 to the Airport Extreme with an ethernet cable and from the Airport Extreme back to my router would be wirelessly.
If you intent to connect the 802.11n AirPort Extreme Base Station (AEBSn) wirelessly to the router, this router would have to be another AirPort or one of a very few non-AirPort products that will work in a Wireless Distribution System (WDS).
Would this cause any latency problems?
Most likely, but that will depend on the two routers used in the WDS. If both are AEBSns, then the throughput performance would be competitive with at least 10baseT or 100baseT Ethernet. If not, then using an Ethernet cable may be the better option.

802.11n and Airport Express iTunes Base station Help me ?

I'll try to keep this simple :
In my Office I have a 24" iMac Intel and the
802.11n resides also in my Office
About 40ft away is my Den which resides:
My MacBook Pro 17" Intel and a Airport Express iTunes
Base Station
Going Back to the 802.11n I have a 2.0 USB AC Powered
Hub connected to the USB port on the back of the 802.11n
of which  said is OK to do
Connected to the USB on the back of the 802.11n:
is a Epson R200 USB InkJet Printer and also on that
Hub is a Lacie Porche 500gb External USB Hard Drive
Again  says is Ok to do
The problem I'm having is that the Cable Modem is
in my Office and is connected via Ethernet to the 802.11n
and I can get a strong connection to the internet
on my iMac 24" Intel in my Office but the MBP 17"
in my Den is having issues getting onto the Internet
now about a week ago I spent 8hrs on the phone W/Apple
about such issues so we erased all the information in
the Disk Utility and started over with the information
in the 802.11n and the iTunes Base Station Express
this has helped until the recent FirmWare Update that
Apple Released a few days ago,
I've tried to actual bring my MBP 17" into the Office
and it gets a better Internet signal than in the Den,
but this wasn't the way it was before the FirmWare Update
Any Suggestions on what I can do to fix this situation
As all worked well with the Express iTunes in the Den
and the 802.11n in the Office and the Cable Modem has
always been in the Office ?
P.S> One problem I forgot to mention is I keep dropping
The Macbook Pro 17" and a Lacie 400gb Hard Drive which is
connected directly to the MBP 17" USB Port which keeps
dropping from my iMac 24" networking it will be working
fine and then I get a message stating that either or both
the MBP 17" and the Lacie Disk (400gb) is Disconnecting
from iMac 24" and then the same will happen on the
MBP 17" with the iMac 24" and any connected drives I'm
sharing from the iMac 24" ?
I'm having a connection problem and I can't get to the
bottom of it and I need some help please
Feel free to email me [email protected]

Updates fixed issue closed question

AirPort Extreme (802.11n) and Airport Express

I wonder...
I do relase reading other posts that connecting my Airport Express as a client, joining my 802.11n (and 54g compatible network) will slow the whole network down.
But I can't do without the airport express, and I don't want to slow down my WAN 100 MBit internet connection either.
Is there a way to split the networks WITHOUT having to switch to the Airport Express-network when I want to play to the Express in iTunes? Has anyone tried some working configs of how to combine these two in a good way?

Saw a recent post just now...I guess the only solution would be to connect the Express by wire to the Extreme!

I have a Airport Extreme 802.11n and I can't find the disc to install it... how can I install without the disc?

I have a Airport Extreme - 802.11n and I'm trying to install it -- but I don't have the disc. Any help would be so appreciated.

You don't need the disk, you can download and install the application that you need.
If you are using Windows 7, the link for the software is just below. Otherwise, post back to let us know what operating system your computer is using.
AirPort Utility 5.6.1 for Windows - Apple

I have a Airport Extreme 802.11n and my T.V. is a panisonic,I keep losing the connection. Anybody have any answers?

I have a Airport Extreme 802.11n and my T.V. is a panisonic,I keep losing the connection. Anybody have any answers?

Plenty of suggestions.. only you can find out which one is correct.
What model AE? What firmware?
Since Panasonic TV is not apple it will use SMB windows type networking.. everything but Apple does.
Are the names in the AE all SMB compatible.. ie short.. max about 20 characters.. no spaces and pure alphanumeric.
Is the security set to WPA2 Personal with a pure alphanumeric password of 10-20 characters.. more is fine if you suffer paranoia but isn't needed.
Fix the wireless channels.. so it doesn't flip flop like a dying fish.
There are only 3 channels for 2.4ghz that do not overlap, 11, 6, 1 although someone suggested 8 works well if you have heaps of interference. If you live in flat/apartment building you have heaps of interference.
Lastly is it stable if the distance is 3M direct line of sight?
If not then get a high power wireless AP and use that instead.

Speed issue with TC and Airport Express 802.11n in WDS mode...

Here is my problem.
I replaced my older base station / Express duo with
a new Time Capsule (1TB) and a new Airport Express (802.11n).
I set up the network with the TC as base station running a WDS network (WDS main) and the Express is the WDS remote.
When I check the wireless clients from the TC, I find my iMac running at 130Mbits and the Extreme at 54Mbits.
No other wireless clients are connected to the network (I kept my slower network as a parallel one for my "older" Macs).
The only other connected device is my Dish network DVR that is connected via an Ethernet cable directly to the Express.
So my question is why does the Express not communicate at >54 speed rate with the TC?
And, why does my iMac connect with 130 and not with 300Mbits?
Any thoughts?

Instead of using WDS, you should take advantage of the "Allow this network to be extended" option that is available for the 802.11n AirPorts including the TC. WDS only operates in the 802.11g radio mode.
Here's the basic setup:
o If practical, place the base stations in near proximity to each other during the setup phase. Once done, move them to their desired locations.
o Open AirPort Utility and select the base station that will connect to the Internet.
o Choose Manual Setup from the Base Station menu, or double-click the base station to open the configuration in a separate window. Enter the base station password if necessary.
o Click AirPort in the toolbar, and then click Wireless.
o Choose “Create a wireless network” from the Wireless Mode pop-up menu, and then select the “Allow this network to be extended” checkbox.
o Next, select the base station that will extend this network, and choose Manual Setup from the Base Station menu, or double-click the base station to open its configuration in a separate window. Enter the base station password if necessary.
o Choose “Extend a wireless network” from the Wireless Mode pop-up menu, and then choose the network you want to extend from the Network Name pop-up menu.
o Enter the base station network and base station password is necessary.
o Click Update to update the base station with new network settings.
(ref: Page 46 of "Designing AirPort Networks Using AirPort Utility).

WDS networking issue - Airport Extreme (802.11n) and remote Airport Express

*Background Info:*
Airport Extreme 802.11n (Fast Ethernet)
Version: 7.2.1
Wireless Mode: Participate in a WDS network (set as main)
Network Name: @Home
Wireless Security: WPA/WPA2 Personal
Channel: 1
Airport Express
Version: 6.3
Wireless Mode: Participate in a WDS network (set as remote)
Network Name: @Home
Wireless Security: WPA/WPA2 Personal
Channel: 1
Radio Mode: 802.11b/g compatible
Connect Using: AirPort (WDS)
Connection Sharing: Off (Bridge Mode)
Issue
Please help as I'm having issues with my WDS network. I've setup using both the wizard and manual and also hard reset on both units to setup again but cannot get them both to communicate to one another. Both units are showing green LED under their configuration. For my last attempt, I've tried adding the Airport ID (MAC) of the Airport Express to the Access Control and also DHCP Reservations on the Airport Extreme but still no luck.
The Airport Express (setup as remote) does not even show up in the Airport Extreme's Summary as Wireless Clients. In the WDS tab, the Airport Extreme is set up as WDS main, Allow wireless clients box checked and WDS Remotes has the Airport Express' AirPort ID in the list. On the Airport Express, WDS is set up as remote, with Allow wireless client box checked and the Airport ID of the Airport Express in the WDS Main.
I can connect clients to both units. Both units are configured using the same Network Name and have the same WPA/WPA2 security key. The Airport Extreme (main) however is connected to my broadband so any devices or clients connected to it are able to get outside. Connected devices or clients are assigned IP address via DHCP with IP 10.0.x.x. If wifi devices or clients connect to the Airport Express (remote) they are assigned a completely different IP addresses 169.254.x.x, they are not able to browse the internet or talk to other clients connected on the 10.0.1.x network. The Internet Connection configuration on the Airport Express (remote) is Connect Using Airport (WDS) and Using DHCP. I've even tried manually and entered the IP address 10.0.1.199 that I had assigned to the Airport Express from the Airport Extreme and Router Address as IP of Airport Extreme (10.0.1.1).
I think I've tried everything but I'm still having this problem. The remote Airport Express is not extending my existing Airport Extreme network. Any ideas???

Christopher,
This may or may not be helpful, or it may be something you've already tried or are aware of so I apologize if that's the case.
I have been researching ways to set up the Dual Band Network supported by the AEBS and came across your post. I've got an AEBS and (2) AirPort Express set-up currently (AEBS is main and the Express are participating in the WDS as remotes) and I'm trying to configure one of the Express to utilize a 802.11b/g compatible network while the AEBS runs a 5Ghz 802.11n Only network.
AAR, since the AirPort Express are 2.4Ghz 802.11b/g ONLY (no support for 802.11n), you have to be sure to set-up your AEBS first and select "802.11n (802.11b/g compatible)" in the Radio Mode drop-down on the AEBS before you attempt to connect an AirPort Express. The AEBS should be set-up as your "WDS main" and the Express should be set-up as a "WDS remote" for the network you established when you set-up the AEBS.
Bottom line here is the Express won't be seen by the AEBS unless the AEBS is 'looking' in the 802.11b/g 2.4Ghz frequency.
Hope this was helpful.

Airport Express, WPS, 802.11n and 7.5.2 firmware - can this work?!

Can't believe this hasn't happened to anyone else, but I can't find a relevant thread.
I have a Time Capsule and an Airport Express base station. The Time Capsule was configured as a WDS base station, and the Express as a WDS Relay. The Express is less than a year old, ie 802.11n.
Everything worked beautifully until firmware upgrade 7.5.2 which self-installed on the Time Capsule just as you would expect - except the relay stopped working.
I've tried everything I can imagine, but I can't get the two devices to communicate with each other any more (even with the new firmware on the Express). I have read somewhere on the Apple site that WDS "doesn't work" with 802.11n, but this doesn't fully explain how it did work with 802.11n up until the time of the firmware upgrade to put it mildly. And releasing a firmware "upgrade" that stops existing configurations working, without warning, is not really an Apple thing to do.
One thing I haven't tried is to revert to older firmware; do I really have to do that? Or is there something wrong here please, Apple? Or did I just imagine, for those 9 months, that the relay was working sweetly?!
Don't know if this is related, but Airport Utility almost consistently fails to see both devices if they are both switched on, but can only see one or the other. Is it possible that the Express has developed a fault?
Please help; I have an old house and I can't penetrate most of it without my WDS!!

Might this apply?
AirPort Firmware Update 7.5.2 does not install on an extended Wi-Fi base station
http://support.apple.com/kb/TS3433

AirPort Express 802.11g and WDS

The other evening I spent two hours unsuccessfully trying to add an AirPort Express 802.11g as a WDS remote station to an existing AirPort network hosted by an 802.11g AirPort Extreme. The computer was using Mac OS X 10.5.4 and AirPort Utility 5.3.2. I believe both AirPort units have the latest firmware.
I've been able to do this in the past elsewhere, but it seems like every time I try this, I'm successful despite my efforts instead of because of them.
The AirPort Express Setup Guide 5.1 (http://manuals.info.apple.com/enUS/AirPort_Express_SetupGuide5.1.pdf) doesn't offer much help: "Open AirPort Utility and follow the onscreen instructions to extend the range of your AirPort Extreme or AirPort Express network."
Apple's online support doesn't help much either. This knowledge base article (http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2044) discusses the AirPort Admin Utility, not the AirPort Utility. The feature to "auto configure as a WDS remote base station" that seemed to make this so easy with AirPort Admin Utility had is gone from AirPort Utility.
Can anyone offer any advice about how to make this work? I've stumbled across some advice like making sure that the channel numbers are the same on both stations, but it would be nice if some Apple document had the computer story in one place. It would be even nicer if AirPort Utility had the same "auto configure" feature that the AirPort Admin Utility had.
Thanks for any advice.

I realized days later that I already had the information I needed. The electronic book "Take Control of Your 802.11n AirPort Extreme Network" (from http://www.takecontrolbooks.com/airport-n.html ), which I already owned, notes that the following items much be set the same on both AirPort stations:
- radio mode
- channel
- base station password
- wireless security method
- wireless password
I think my problem is that one station was set to a specific channel while the other was set to the default choice of "automatic".

Connecting AX (802.11n) and AX (802.11g) to create WDS

Hello I'm currently trying to connect my new Airport Extreme (802.11n) to my old Airport (802.11g)
in the aim of extending my network. So I would like to have the 11n as my main.
and 11g as a remote I think?
can anybody give me a step by step on how I would go about this on Airport Utility?
I think my main problem is that my old Airport is connected to a different network.
Kyle

You would need to configure the 802.11n AirPort Extreme base station (AEBS) to operate in an 802.11g compatible mode. You would need to configure one AEBS to operate as a WDS main. You would need to configure the other AEBS to operate as a WDS remote (or relay). An Unfortunate side effect of WDS is that each link cuts your available wireless bandwidth in half. Therefore the maximum wireless bandwidth achievable is 1/2 the 802.11g rate.

Setting up Time Capsule with existing AirPort Extreme 802.11n and AirPort Express.

I already have and am using an AirPort Extreme 802.11n with an AirPort Express. I want to set up a Time Capsule 802.11n. Which is the best way to configure this?

... Which is the best way to configure this?
The answer depends on what you need the TC to accomplish. If all you need it to do is perform Time Machine backups, simply have it join your existing network in client mode. It would be if it were to connect to your existing router (presumably your Extreme), not through an "extended" wireless network (presumably your Express).
If you need the TC to "extend" your network so as to serve additional wireless clients, you can do that also. Configure it to "extend" the network created by your Extreme.
As you can see it's quite versatile.

After setting up my brand new Airport Express 802.11n and accidentally using it to connect my iMac to the network...my iMac no longer connects through Ethernet? Any ideas...I have tried everything without success!!

I have been using Apple technology for about 10 years starting with 1st generation iPods and our house now includes a 5 year old iMac, all versions of iPods and touches, Apple TVs (both generations) and most recently an iPad 2. I have always told family and friends that Apple technology just works. Unfortunately that stopped today. I bought a new Airport Express 802.11n to use for AirTunes around my new pool. I set it up from my iMac and accidentally used it to connect my iMac to the network for a short time. Now I can no longer connect the iMac to the network using a hard wired Ethernet cable. I have tried resetting everything possible, from hubs to routers to the Mac itself and it just will not connect to the network through Ethernet any longer. I am now a very frustrated Apple user especially when the support site says I can't use the fast path support because my product was manufactured 5 years ago...I just bought it at BestBuy yesterday. All other computers and itechnology in the house are connecting via wifi and Ethernet without any issue except from my new iMac boat anchor. Anybody who can help me??? Thanks

John, thanks for the email so quickly.
I too hope I haven't tried "everything" either but I am reasonably technical. I had done what you suggested to do before but I did both again.
Ethernet is yellow in the left side bar. In the right pane it's status says Connected but then below it says "Ethernet has a self-assigned IP address and will not be able to connect to the Internet."
I have tried the assist me menu and Network Status has Ethernet Green, Network settings Yellow, ISP Green, and Internet and Server Red and Failed for both. I have turned things off and on, checked cables, deleted all locations and tried restting them up but to no avail. I even disconnected everything and connected the mac directly into the cable modem itself and the thing still will not connect.
Thoughts???

Airport (802.11n) and WDS

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