Airport Extreme/Express vs. third-party routers

Do the common glitches in network connectivity with Leopard occur almost solely with third-party routers, or is it fairly commonly spreads between them and Extreme/Express users? Just curious.

In my line of work I setup various brands of wireless routers on a monthly basis.
I have not experience any network connectivity issues with any macs running leoapard. However there are on 3 models of router I have used since leoaprd came out.
The linksys wrt54G.
The Netgear D834
Apple Basestations.

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I am unable to see my Airport Extreme/Express on my MacBook via Airport Utility

I have two issues:
1. I am unable to see my Airport Extreme and my Airport Express via my MacBook Air's Airport Utility when I scan for Base Stations. However, the computer is happily connected to the wireless network of my Extreme (the Express is used to extend range)
2. I am unable to see a HDD that is connected via USB cable to the Airport Extreme.
Any suggestions welcome.
Thanks

Further info:
Setup
MacBook Air running OS X 10.5.8
AirPort Extreme Base Station
AirPort Express used to extend range
AirPort Utility v5.5.3
The MacBook Air is actually connected to the wireless network provided by the two AirPorts!
Oddly, I see both AirPorts just fine when using my older PowerBook G4 with an older version of the AirPort Utility.
In addition, I cannot see the external HDD connected to the AirPort Extreme Base Station, and my wireless printer (HP D410a) suddenly stopped working via the MacBook Air. However, it works just fine from my iPhone, which is connected to the same AirPort Extreme/Express wireless network.
Recently, at the request of Sky Broadband, I switched to fixed IP addresses instead of DHCP, as I was having issues with the DHCP set-up.

SPI firewalls on third party routers may cause incorrect behavior

Disclaimer: Apple does not necessarily endorse any suggestions, solutions, or third-party software products that may be mentioned in the topic below. Apple encourages you to first seek a solution at Apple Support. The following links are provided as is, with no guarantee of the effectiveness or reliability of the information. Apple does not guarantee that these links will be maintained or functional at any given time. Use the information below at your own discretion.
Some users have reported that image queries to sites such as Google Image Search, Google Maps and Bing do not display results in Snow Leopard. This is because of overaggressive "SYN Flood" protection in the firewalls of some third party routers.
When image results are to be displayed, Safari and Firefox make multiple simultaneous connections to the host to retrieve them. This is usually faster than downloading one and moving on to the next and on and on.
Safari in Mac OS X Snow Leopard may make as many as sixteen simultaneous connections to the Google image server's HTTP port within 0.0043 second to retrieve the data; in Mac OS X Leopard it may be as few as eight.
Some consumer-level SPI firewalls misinterpret the attempt to open that many simultaneous connections to one server as a "SYN flood" and block the traffic. Not good, especially when the connections are being made from your machine to an outside host, so the firewall is effectively blocking you from perpetrating what it thinks is a SYN flood.
Some Flickr users have experienced a similar issue.
If your router allows configuration of its SPI firewall, you may be able to solve this problem if it has a setting labeled something like:
Maximum incomplete TCP/UDP sessions number from same host
On those routers, this setting is often set to a default of "10"; simply increasing this value to a much higher value - many have had good luck with "20" - will allow accesses to work as desired and will also allow some room for possible future expansion in the number of simultaneous queries made.
If your router does not offer such a setting, there's no solution other than to disable the firewall.
Note that any operating system - Linux, Solaris, even perhaps Windows 7 - could trigger the same problem. You can even generate the same issue in Windows XP by applying "speed tweaks" such as this.
(Some explanation from Microsoft is available as well.)
In short, it's a bad assumption made on the part of the SPI firewall's designers, not by Apple.
This is the 1st version of this tip. It was submitted on April 20, 2010 by William Kucharski.
Do you want to provide feedback on this User Contributed Tip or contribute your own? If you have achieved Level 2 status, visit the User Tips Library Contributions forum for more information.

Odd,
What tip ?
I presume this is a left over from the Previous discussion thread and a Topic that is now a User Tip.
9:44 PM Thursday; April 28, 2011
 G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
 MacBookPro 2Gb( 10.6.7)
, Mac OS X (10.6.7),
"Limit the Logs to the Bits above Binary Images."  No, Seriously

Few questions about Airport Extreme/Express

I have a few questions about Airport extreme/express:
1 Can you access hard drive trough express?
2 I have cable NOT wireless modem. What would be the best option (speed-wise) to connect to internet- connect modem to Extreme and access internet wirelessly from it? To connect modem to Extreme and imac?
3 How fast is read/ write from hard drive connected to Extreme?
4 How many hard drives can you connect to Extreme (or Express if that is possible)?
5 Can you remotely sync Ipod nano/ shuffle using Extreme?
I really hate wire clutter around my desk. What I intend to do is to connect hard drives and printer to Airport Extreme and access them remotely. That would leave empty desk:).
Thanks

1. You cannot connect a hard drive to the Airport Express USB port.
2. The speed of wireless networking is faster than the speed of most cable internet services. Therefore, you won't notice any difference in your internet connection speed between (a) a cabled connection directly between Mac and modem or (b) a wireless connection between Mac and base station and modem.
3. Apple has not published any specs on the speed of hard drive access for the Airport Extreme N Base Station. Several people have posted their own measurements (do a search in this discussion forum), and generally those results are not very good.
4. Apple has not placed a limit on the number of drives you can attach to the Airport Extreme N Base Station (with use of a hub). How many do you want to connect?
5. You cannot remotely sync an iPod using the Extreme Base Station.

Third Party Routers & Airport

I'm a noob. I just got an airport express for christmas (i love it). I would like to put it in my room (in client mode), and have another cheap router broadcasting the ethernet signal to it to repeat (WDS). Now, I know that apple says this can't be done but I read all over the internet that it can. All I need to do is change the ip adress and a few settings. My problem is that all of the threads i've read are old, and I need to know of a new compatable third party router that I can buy for cheap and I need to know if it works for sure.

I disagree with Don's assertion. Certainly that is the first time that I have seen a post claiming that there is 100 devices compatible with Apple's WDS.
If you are going to search Google for devices, use http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=WDS%2BRouters+%2BMac%2BCompatible&btnG=Search instead of Don's link. It combines search items instead of making them optional. It also greatly reduces the number of hits.
The devices known to be compatible with Apple's WDS are:
AirPort Extreme base station (AEBS)
AirPort Express
Linksys WRT54G or WRT54GS (not latest versions v5)
Belkin F5D7230-4 and F5D7231
one specific model from SMC (don't know the model number)
one specific model from Buffalo (don't know the model number)
BT Voyager 2100

Connect Express to third-party router

I am considering buying an AirPort Express to use with AirTunes. But first I want to know if it would be possible to wirelessly connect the AirPort to my third-party 802.11g DSL router to use as a wireless bridge, or whatever it's called.

Not via the AX's Ethernet port.
With the AX's configured as a wireless client any client of the network (wireless or connected via Ethernet to the main base station) will be able to stream music to the AX and use a printer attached to the AX.

Airport Extreme & Express w/ N working with Airport Base & Express w/ G

I have an Airport Extreme and an Airport Express with N. I also have an older Airport Base Station and Airport Express with G. I currently have them set up as a WDS.
My internet connection is 15 Mbps, but I'm only getting about 10 Mbps for wireless at the best of times. (I checked and when I plug directly into my router, I can get 15 Mbps).
From what I've been reading, it seems that having a WDS for 4 devices (with its 50% reduction per unit) is a bad idea, and might be cause for the slowdown.
Also, from what I've read, since my Airport Extreme does not have the dual network capability, my network is also forced to run at G speeds.
I need the two G airports on my system because I need them as wireless routers to support a stereo/Xbox in one room, and a Blu-ray player in another.
Setting up a dual-band 2.4 and 5 Ghz network won't work since the old and new Base stations aren't near each other.
So, is the solution here to reset all (except Airport Extreme Base) to "extending wireless network"? Will this give me N thought my home (or, at least, the range of the main router) but also allow the G units that serve as wireless routers for those items that still need them?
If this isn't the answer, what should I do?
Thanks for your help.

So, is the solution here to reset all (except Airport Extreme Base) to "extending wireless network"? Will this give me N thought my home (or, at least, the range of the main router) but also allow the G units that serve as wireless routers for those items that still need them?
You can't do that since your 802.11g AirPort Extreme base station (AEBS) and AirPort Express (AX) do not support this feature.
If this isn't the answer, what should I do?
Connect them all via Ethernet. Another is to replace your 802.11g AEBS and AX.

Third party routers that need no firmware update

What are the best third party WiFi routers with LAN ethernet ports that need no firmware update to work with 10.4.8 and Windows XP?

Actually the extra ethernet ports is paramount.
Otherwise you don't know who is being secure to
whom. You end up having two routers to setup for
configuration of security. Simplicity is
important, since I want to be able to help set it up
for the friend, and forget it.
?? That doesn't make any sense - I think you're missing something fundemental here. The extra ethernet ports are on the LAN side of the secure connection. The firewall in the router isolates the internal, LAN network (wireless + ethernet) from the external WAN (aka the big bad internet). Whether or not you have a switch attached to one of the LAN ports makes no difference, security-wise - you are in control of the devices connected to the LAN side of the router. WEP/WPA/WPA2 security controls who is able to connect to the wireless LAN.
From a security standpoint, there is ABSOLUTELY no difference between buying a router with eight lan ports and buying a router with four lan ports plus plugging in a five-port switch to one of the lan ports. It's exactly the same thing.
What you don't control is the WAN side of things - the internet itself. You certainly wouldn't want to connect the switch to the WAN port on the router, at least not unless you wanted to run, say, a web server that is exposed to the internet itself. This wouldn't be a good idea in any case - there are better ways to set this up as well (either by setting up a DMZ, or by setting up port forwards)
There is absolutely no reason why you would want or need two routers for this setup - this is only an issue for extremely large networks.
The WRT54G has 1 WAN port and four LAN ports. You can have four hardwired devices (computers, printers, switches, etc) on these LAN ports - they are protected from the internet by the firewall in the router. You can also have any number of wireless devices on this same router; these, as well, are on the LAN side of the router, and are therefore protected.
Adding a switch to the LAN side of the router has absolutely no impact on security. No additional routers would be required.

Airport extreme/express network setup

i'm sure this has been covered in general but lan equipment and requirements vary widely (plus most of my wireless experience is w/non-apple routers), so here goes. i have the following hardware
airport extreme (802.11n) running 7.5.2 (might downgrade to 7.4.x based on comments in this forum) connected to cable modem
2 airport express (v6.3) connected wirelessly to ap extreme
1 airport express (v6.3) connected via ethernet (wd powerline) to ap extreme
what i'd like:
ap extreme base to be the only SSID & DHCP server on the network.
the 2 wireless expresses to provide wider coverage in the main house.
the express connected via ethernet to provide wireless signal/access in the detached guest house (trying to run it wirelessly does not get a strong enough signal, hence the powerline ethernet), but only as an extension to the extreme base.
when a device (laptop, phone, etc.) connects, it should use the closest / strongest wireless signal, but always think there is only 1 network/connection config. and, when one moves between house and guest house, connected device will auto 'roam'.
whoever set this up, set the extreme to be running in WDS mode (WDS main). however, it complains that it is the only WDS device on the network (see next ???).
the 2 wireless expresses are set to 'Participate in WDS' (WDS remote)
in order to get the ethernet-connected express to work, i had to give it its own SSID and set it to 'Create wireless network'.
it does work, but there are 2 networks, no roaming, and error message on ap extreme base re:WDS config.
questions:
1) what mode should the extreme base use ('Create wireless network' or 'Participate in WDS network')?
2) what settings (WDS or wireless) for the wireless expresses?
3) what mode should the ethernet-connected express use ('Create wireless network', 'Participate in WDS network' or 'Join wireless network')?
4) anything special i need to know to get the roaming to work reliably?
5) any suggestion (due to missing questions :-)?
tx for any info. i could try all the permutations & combinations of config (actually, i've already tried a number of them , but tired of running up/downstairs and to/fro resetting devices, so i thought i would ask for help from people with more experience background.
mack

Hi, mackiemesser. Welcome to the forums!
So if I understand correctly, your setup looks like this:
<hr>
• Express #1, Express #2, and the Extreme should be set to "Participate in a WDS."
• The Extreme needs to be told that Expresses #1 and #2 will be WDS Remotes. (You'll have to enter their MAC addresses.)
• Expresses #1 and #2 need to be told that the Extreme will be their WDS Main. (You'll have to enter its MAC address.)
• Express #3 should indeed be set to "Create a wireless network" but should use the same SSID and password that your other wireless network uses.
• All Expresses should be configured to operate in Bridge Mode. In Manual Setup, click "Internet" in the toolbar and choose "Off (Bridge Mode)" from the "Connection Sharing" popup menu.
• The Extreme should not be in Bridge Mode. It should instead "Share a public IP."
<hr>
A few suggestions:
• Write down the MAC addresses of all your Extremes. This saves a lot of time when you're setting up the WDS.
• Sometimes after you change the WDS settings for one AirPort on the network, it confuses the other AirPorts in the WDS, and you get network problems until all of the AirPorts agree on WDS information. In this case, if you can't see an AirPort in AirPort Utility, connect that AirPort to the computer via Ethernet. In fact, it might save time to gather all your AirPorts and plug them in next to your computer for the WDS setup process so that you can easily connect via Ethernet if necessary.
• Using a WDS dramatically decreases your network performance. Every time you add a WDS Remote, you decrease your maximum network speed by 50%. Newer AirPorts support 802.11n and have a feature that allows you to extend your wireless network without as much overhead as a WDS, but all AirPorts in the wireless network that's extended must support 802.11n.

Fios+Moch+Multiple Airport Extreme/Express Units

I currently have the following setup:
- Verizon Fios Router (actiontec). Wifi is on but rarely use the SSID.
- Airport Extreme connected via ethernet to Fios Router which broadcasts to other aiprort expresses in my apt. Setup to "create wireless network"
- The airport express units "extend" the network and is in bridge mode. Printer is connected to one of the airport express units.
While this works, the wifi connections in other rooms is very weak as I live in an old building. Download speeds of 2-3mbps vs 40-50 when I am near my main airport extrme. The express units help a little but the speed suffers.
So I bought 2 MOCA adapters to help. If I attach the airport express units to these adapters the speed is excellent, except it uses the SSID from the Fios Router which makes it difficult to print and use other features of the apple routers.
My understanding is that if I disable the router on the verizon actiontec I lose functionality of the tv guide, on demand etc.
Any recommended solutions?

The express plugged into the MOCA unit should be in bridge.
It should also be setup to create a wireless network. Use the same SSID as the Apple Extreme.
It does however sound like the extreme is in the wrong mode.. it should also be in bridge.. you do not mention that.. just that it creates a wireless network which is correct.

Airport extreme,express and time capsule

I need expand my wireless network. I have three floor . In the middle i have a time capsule with adsl. At the first floor i have airport extreme that expand signal of my wifi. In the last floor i have an aiport express but i don't Be able to configure this with third repeater.... Can i do this? Can you help me? Thank

If your AirPort Express is a 802.11n model, then configuring it to extend the TC's wireless network would be the same as you did when you configured the AirPort Extreme to do so. Please check out the following Apple Support article to make sure you didn't miss anything when you attempted to configure yours.

New Airport Extreme + Express. Will all run at 54Mbps?

Hi,
I have some Express base stations in my house to stream music. If I buy the new Airport Extreme Station with 802.11n standard will all my network run at 802.11g?
Or it is possible to connect different devices at different speed?
For example: if I connect to my network an AppleTV, a core2duo 24'' iMac (802.11n) and a G4 powerbook (802.11g), will the iMac run at 802.11g, too?
Thanks.

without actually using one it is hard to say for sure. Most wireless routers that i have used have an option to broadcast wireless B only, Wireless G only, or Both. I would assume that would also be the case with the Airport Extreme. The biggest downfall of the Extreme is not having 10/100/1000 Ethernet ports (only has 10/100)

Airport extreme & express - I am tearing out the little hair i have left !!

Can anyone help with this problem before i am completly bald.
I have just bought a new imac (with intel chip) and i am wanting to locate it downstairs but the room is in a wireless deadspot.
I have a pc upstairs connected to a bb cable connection. I have now replaced my belkin wireless router with an airport extreme base station and an airport express to act as a booster for the imac downstairs.
i have installed the extreme base station ok and it works for the pc which is hard wired to it and wirelessly for the imac when in range. I am having problems trying to set up the airport express as a relay station.
Every time i configure the extreme to act as a wds and then add the airport express it cuts off the pc connection and the imac, I must not be doing the settings correctly in the airport admin - is it something to do with sharing ip addresses ??
I have followed the instructions on this site but still having probs - can anyone offer help or guidence please
Thanks
imac intel 2ghz 250g Mac OS X (10.4.4) extreme base station airport express

Thanks for your great advice and assistance. I have read the various articles that you linked and will try the new extended configuration using my old 4th gen as soon as my new 5th gen extreme arrives from Apple. I may also try using the express as well by going off in a somewhat different direction on the upstairs floor where the primary base unit is connected to the cable modem. My original reason for upgrading to the new 5th gen was not because the range and signal strength were inadequate, but rather to try and get some improvement in the wireless download speeds from the 4th gen extreme and the extended express. My Mac using an Ethernet connection from the extreme was delivering download speeds of 49 to 50 Mbs all the time, while the wireless download speeds to my new iPad or my iPhone 5 were only about 15Mbs coming from the extreme and 7-8 Mbs if I was downloading through the express. I have been reading lots of comments on this subject for over a year now, with many others experiencing the same problem, but Apple never really acknowledging that there was even an issue. The only solution seemed to be that people who upgraded to the 5th gen. we're getting much better performance across all performance issues. Here's hoping for success in the next few days. Thanks again for your assistance.

How can I tell whether my airport extreme is a third or fourth generation and what's the difference?

Is there a desernable difference between the airport extreme third generation and fourth? How can you tell which one you have?

Open Macintosh HD > Applications > Utilities > AirPort Utility
Click on the AirPort Extreme
Information about the device will be displayed in the area to the right
The 3rd Generation product was the first Apple simultaneous dual band router, introduced in March 2009. Minor changes were made in the chipsets between the 3rd Generation and 4th Generation versions with some antenna improvements added in the 4th Generation versions as well. The 4th Generation version was introduced in October 2009.

On a network with multiple airports (extreme, express, + time capsule), do they all have to be "guest" capable devices in order to offer guest networking?

Here's the situation: I have three older devices:
a1254 Time Capsule
a1134 airport extreme
a1264 express
none of these support guest networking, according to Apple. If I add a newer Extreme (3rd gen or higher) that support guest networks, will that be possible to offer to guests within range of the Extreme, -OR- do I have to upgrade my entire network of Apple wifi devices? Help appreciated, esp if you have such a setup. thanks!

The problem here is guest network only works if the Apple Router is indeed the main router.. you cannot setup guest network on a bridged router. Although it appears you can, it doesn't actually work.
You could modify the network setup..
Use one device dedicated to a secondary guest network. This would actually work better than using guest but you should have some way to prevent access to computers from guest.. that may be easy or hard depending on the modem you are using.

Airport Extreme/Express vs. third-party routers

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