Analog Fedback for position control

Hi all,
Its been a long time since I have written into this discussion forum. I have a question. Till now I have been using encoder as a feedback device for position control in PCI 7342 motion controller. Now I want to know about position control using the analog input channel. I cant figure out how the controller understands the equation between input voltage and position.
                                                           Say X Volts = How many mm of movement?
With the encoder f/b the motion controller knows the encoder pulse per revolution and it keeps counting the feedback and generates motion accordingly. How is it done with analog feedback. My application involves an LVDT which give proportional analog feedback with respect to the displacement. Please help me oiut on this. Also is position compare and breakpoint feature relevant to this particular problem?

Hi Giridhar,
it's good to see you back in the forums.
I have posted a document to another thread that contains a detailed description of the analog feedback feature.
I hope that helps,
Jochen Klier
National Instruments Germany

Similar Messages

  • Is there and easy way for Position control using analog input?

    Hi Everyone,
    I would like to set one of the axis with stepper motor using analog feedback to keep the set position which is coming from the analog input.
    In other words I would like the stepper to move when the analog input changes. I need it as a "background service" so the rest of the motion could be easily controlled from the NI-Motion Assistant.
    Is there any easy way to do this? Even complicated is ok but the control should be done by the NI Motion card not the PC processor.
    Thanks,
    Andras

    Hello Andras,
    please use the link below to get the motion example.
    http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/epd/p/id/353
    Kind regards,
    Elmar

  • Configuring Secondary Feedback for Position Control

    Hi,
    I am using PXI7340 Motion Control card with RT Controller. I am using servo motor with 35:1 gear to increase the output torque. I have two encoders (One at the motor side and the other at the load side). If I want to control motor position based on the second encoder feedback then what is the procedure for that.
    Now I connected Motor side encoder as Primary feedback and load side encoder as secondary feedback. But there is no option to enter gear ratio in MAX.

    Venkat wrote:
    Hi,
    I am using PXI7340 Motion Control card with RT Controller. I am using servo motor with 35:1 gear to increase the output torque. I have two encoders (One at the motor side and the other at the load side). If I want to control motor position based on the second encoder feedback then what is the procedure for that.
    Now I connected Motor side encoder as Primary feedback and load side encoder as secondary feedback. But there is no option to enter gear ratio in MAX.
    Hello Venkat,
    Thank you for contacting National Instruments. It is advised to use secondary feedback in situations like yours to overcome backlash due to gearing. Backlash is the delay there can be in the motion from the motor to transfer over to the load. If the encoder connected to the load is used to close the velocity loop it can lead to a delayed response in terms of correcting the velocity. Secondary feedback is used to compensate for the backlash and is used to complete the velocity loop. Secondary feedback comes from the encoder connected to the motor. Primary feedback in this case is used to correct position errors and needs to come from an encoder connected to the load.
    When using secondary feedback the Kd term of the PID is set to 0 and the Kv term is used instead. You will not need to set the gearing ratio or the encoder counts per revolution for the secondary feedback since the velocity loop is only interested in the difference in steps. More information about this procedure can be found in the NI-Motion User Manual installed on your machine with the NI-Motion drivers. You can find it under Start>>Programs>>National Instruments>>NI-Motion>>Documentation>>NI-Motion User Manual or "C:\Program Files\National Instruments\Motion\Documentation\NI-Motion User Manual.pdf". Dual Loop Feedback on page 4-30 goes into more details about this procedure. Hope this helps your out. Have a nice day!
    Regards,
    Nipun M.
    Applications Engineer
    National Instruments

  • NI pci 6251 position control

    Hi
    Im new to this forum and new to Labview and NI pci 6251 as well ;(
    I'm using NI-PCI-6251 (DC Motor ) with Labview to control the position of a DC motor  we developed the program that reads the encoder and display the position of the DC motor shaft
    but the problem is that the counter 0 (cnt0) always increases whether the disc rotating clockwise or anticlockwise??!! and when the desired position is reached the controller does nothing to stop the motor ?
    i don't know what is the problem or why its happening.

    Hi,
    I am also doing something similar.
    The problem is the motor is the DC motor from Quanser. (DCMCT).
    I know the encoder channel of the motor is ctr0 and when I test from "Measurement and Automation Explorer" (Labview>>Tools) I can only read the PFI8 channel.
    The motor read 4096 pulses per revolution and no reading is available from PFI10. As per Quanser the motor should be about to do position control. I have seen lab tutorials for position control in internet.
     I tested both the vi is mentioned above. The "Example" vi reads the motor position in terms of pulses. But when I rotate the motor in the other direction the count increment not decrement.
    Also the quadratureencoderMseries vi did not read the angle position when I set the channel values.
    I have attached the parameters that I set.
    Can any one please check..
    Thanks.
    Attachments:
    encoder issue.JPG ‏357 KB

  • LIFA+servo position control

    HI all, I have installed the Labview Interface for Arduino.
    I just need VI s for the position control of servo motor
    I have few questions regarding this
    1) what is closed loop position control , can i do that with servo motor ( I am using RC servo -VS-2)
    2)can i control my servo without using Arduino code , directly from m Labview
    3)How to implement PID controller for position control of Servo
    Thanx

    If you want to control servo directly from LabVIEW, you need NI Daq card.
    Your starting point should be from this link : http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/3367
    CLA 2014
    CCVID 2014

  • Is it possible to condition a load cell signal with a 1520 SCXI and then use it as the primary analog feedback for a 735X motion control board?

    My system
    PXI 1052 chassis
    PXI 8196 RT controller
    Flexmotion 7356 motion controller
    Flexmotion 7354 motion controller
    6259 M series DAQ
    1520 SCXI
    1520 SCXI
    1314 SCXI frount mounting terminal block
    DSM strain gage load cells
    Exlar SR Brushless PM motors
    Kollmorgen servo star CD series 5 drives
    My objective:
    I want to measure the force on the load cells with the 1520 SCXI (i.e. excite the load cell then amplify and condition its output) then I want to use this analog (force) signal as the primary feedback for my motion control system (7356 and 7354 motion controller connected to my drives and motors).
    The problem:
    The motion controller boards (7356 and 7354) can be configured for force feedback control via analog feedback from a load cell.  However the boards implicitly expect the load cell signal to be amplified and conditioned with and external signal conditioner rather then using an NI SCXI module.  Currently I’m am reading the SCXI signals via the 6259 M seriers DAQ and consequentially have no way to route the signal into the 735X boards for force feedback control.  I can use softmotion to control the motors but then I loose the fast PID update rates possible with the 735X boards.
    The question:
    Is it possible to condition a load cell signal with a 1520 SCXI and then use it as the primary analog feedback for a 735X motion control board? 
    Thanks
    Patrick Aubin
    Ph.D Candidate
    University of Washington &
    VA MedicalCenter of Excellence for
    Limb Loss Prevention and Prosthetic Engineering  

    Hi GG,
    Thank you for your feedback.
    >create your own external circuitry to amplify the signal.>
    True a few op-amps could amplify and filter the signal externally but the performance of such an amateur built system will never match the accuracy and functionality of the 1520 SCXI.  That’s why we spent the $2500 for the professional version.
    >One thing that you could do is to use a UMI with your motion controller and then wire your signal from your SCXI to the UMI.>
    As I understand it the UMI is basically a break out connectivity interface for third party drives.  After conditioning and amplifying the analog force signal with the SCXI module the analog signal isn’t available to wire into a UMI.  To my knowledge the conditioned signal of the SCXI resides only in the PXI backplane (i.e. there is no physical access to the conditioned analog signal).  Can you explain how the UMI could be help here.
    Again thanks for your input GG.
    Patrick

  • Position Control of compumotor linear servo table and GV-U6E with PCI-7344

    I'm referring PCI-7344 (not 7334).
    I have the GV-U6E which is a drive only and does not possess control functionality. the drive only version does not store or use programs. So, serial commands can not be sent through COM port by LabVIEW even though A few basic commands can be emulated.
    I am trying to do position control as I mentioned. For example, the motor should move A point to B point exactly with a certain speed. The points must be aboulte position.
    I would like you to see the reference comment that I have been contacting with in your website forum.
    http://exchange.ni.com/servlet/ProcessRequest?RHIVEID=101&RPAGEID=135&HOID=506500000008000000DD490000&USEARCHCONTEXT_CATEGORY_0=_14_&USEARCHCONTEXT_CATEGORY_S=0&UCATEGORY_0=_14_&UCATEGORY_S=0
    Regard,
    Jin Ho Lee
    ----- Original Message -----
    From:
    To:
    Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 5:00 PM
    Subject: Re: (Reference#1549-QYW196) "Position Control of linear servo table and GV-U6E with PCI-7344
    >
    > Note: Your reference number is included in the Subject field of this
    > message. It is very important that you do not remove or modify this
    > reference number, or your message may be returned to you.
    >
    >
    > JinHo. Compumotor is a very popular brand, and I know of several customers
    > who integrate our 7334 with Computmotor drives. However, when you say that
    > the MAX configuration doesn't fit in the compumotor drive settings, are you
    > referring to the specs from the 7344? It looks like the 7344 and the
    > Compumotor will work well together through a UMI break out box. If you're
    > referring to specific commands that the Compumotor receives, I'd have to
    > know more about the protocol. If the Compumotor needs serial commands,
    > then you can send them through the computer's COM port from LabVIEW.
    > Please let me know exactly what kind of configurations you're trying to
    > set. The 7344 can be completely configured in MAX and LabVIEW.
    >
    >
    > Best Regards
    >
    > Kyle Voosen
    > Applications Engineer
    > National Instruments
    > http://www.ni.com/support
    >
    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >
    > Problem Description :
    > "Position Control of compumotor 406LXR linear servo table and GV-U6E(motor
    > drive) with PCI-7344"
    >
    > "Since I had the answers referring:
    > http://exchange.ni.com/servlet/ ProcessRequest?RHIVEID=101&RPAGEID=135&
    > HOID=506500000008000000DD490000& USEARCHCONTEXT_CATEGORY_0=_14_&
    > USEARCHCONTEXT_CATEGORY_S=0& UCATEGORY_0=_14_&UCATEGORY_S=0
    >
    > Wiring step was done well. However, I still have a problem that MAX
    > configuration doesn't fit in compumotor drive settings. Therefore, the
    > setup is shown below, and I want to know how I can set up PCI-7344
    > configuration in MAX or LabVIEW VI.
    >
    >
    > -----------------------------------------------------
    >
    > Uploaded from device address 0
    >
    > Gemini GV Servo Drive Setup
    >
    >
    >
    > Motor Setup
    > DMTR 1703
    > Motor ID (406-x-LXR-M-x-D13-x-x-x-x-E5-x-x-x)
    > DMTIC 2.48
    > Continuous Current (Amps-RMS)
    > DMTICD 0.00
    > Continuous Current Derating (% derating at rated speed)
    > DMTKE 17.6
    > Motor Ke (Volts (0-to-peak)/krpm)
    > DMTRES 10.10
    > Motor Winding Resistance (Ohm)
    > DMTJ 119.300
    > Motor Rotor Inertia (kg*m*m*10e-6)
    > DPOLE 1
    > Number of Motor Pole Pairs
    > DMTW 40.5
    > Motor Rated Speed (rev/sec)
    > DMTIP 7.40
    > Peak Current (Amps-RMS)
    > DMTLMN 3.4
    > Minimum Motor Inductance (mH)
    > DMTLMX 3.4
    > Maximum Motor Inductance (mH)
    > DMTD 0.000000
    > Motor Damping (Nm/rad/sec)
    > DMTRWC 0.23
    > Motor Thermal Resistance (degrees Celsius/Watt)
    > DMTTCM 20.0
    > Motor Thermal Time Constant (minutes)
    > DMTTCW 0.33
    > Motor Winding Time Constant (minutes)
    > DMTAMB 40.00
    > Motor Ambient Temperature (degrees Celsius)
    > DMTMAX 90.00
    > Maximum Motor Winding Temperature (degrees Celsius)
    > DHALL 1
    > Disable Hall Sensor Checking
    > DMTLQS 0
    > Set Q Axis Inductance Saturation
    > DMTLDS 0
    > Set D Axis Inductance Saturation
    > DTHERM 0
    > Disable motor thermal switch input
    >
    >
    >
    > Drive Setup
    > DMODE 2
    > Drive Control Mode
    > DRES 8400
    > Drive Resolution (counts/rev)
    > DPWM 16
    > Drive PWM Frequency (kHz)
    > SFB 1
    > Encoder Feedback
    > ERES 8400
    > Encoder Resolution (counts/rev)
    > ORES 8400
    > Encoder Output Resolution (counts/rev)
    > DMEPIT 42.00
    > Electrical Pitch (mm)
    > SHALL 0
    > Invert Hall Sensors
    > DMTLIM 1.5
    > Torque Limit (Nm)
    > DMTSCL 1.5
    > Torque Scaling (Nm)
    > DMVLIM 119.000000
    > Velocity Limit (rev/sec)
    > DMVSCL 119.000000
    > Velocity Scaling (rev/sec)
    >
    >
    >
    > Load Setup
    > LJRAT 0.0
    > Load-to-Rotor Inertia Ratio
    > LDAMP 0.0000
    > Load Damping (Nm/rad/sec)
    >
    >
    >
    > Fault Setup
    > FLTSTP 1
    > Fault on Startup Indexer Pulses Enable
    > FLTDSB 1
    > Fault on Drive Disable Enable
    > SMPER 8400
    > Maximum Allowable Position Error (counts)
    > SMVER 0.000000
    > Maximum Allowable Velocity Error (rev/sec)
    > DIFOLD 0
    > Current Foldback Enable
    >
    >
    >
    > Digital Input Setup
    > INLVL 11000000
    > Input Active Level
    > INDEB 50
    > Input Debounce Time (milliseconds)
    > INUFD 0
    > Input User Fault Delay Time (milliseconds)
    > LH 0
    > Hardware EOT Limits Enable
    >
    >
    >
    > Digital Output Setup
    > OUTBD 0
    > Output Brake Delay Time (milliseconds)
    > OUTLVL 0100000
    > Output Active Level
    >
    >
    >
    > Analog Monitor Setup
    > DMONAV 0
    > Analog Monitor A Variable
    > DMONAS 100
    > Analog Monitor A Scaling (% of full scale output)
    > DMONBV 0
    > Analog Monitor B Variable
    > DMONBS 100
    > Analog Monitor B Scaling (% of full scale ouput)
    >
    >
    >
    > Servo Tuning
    > DIBW 1500
    > Current Loop Bandwidth (Hz)
    > DVBW 100
    > Velocity Loop Bandwidth (Hz)
    > DPBW 40.00
    > Position Loop Bandwidth (Hz)
    > SGPSIG 1.000
    > Velocity/Position Bandwidth Ratio
    > SGIRAT 1.000
    > Current Damping Ratio
    > SGVRAT 1.000
    > Velocity Damping Ratio
    > SGPRAT 1.000
    > Position Damping Ratio
    > DNOTAF 0
    > Notch Filter A Frequency (Hz)
    > DNOTAQ 1.0
    > Notch Filter A Quality Factor
    > DNOTAD 0.0000
    > Notch Filter A Depth
    > DNOTBF 0
    > Notch Filter B Frequency (Hz)
    > DNOTBQ 1.0
    > Notch Filter B Quality Factor
    > DNOTBD 0.0000
    > Notch Filter B Depth
    > DNOTLG 0
    > Notch Lag Filter Break Frequency (Hz)
    > DNOTLD 0
    > Notch Lead Filter Break Frequency (Hz)
    > SGINTE 1
    > Integrator Option
    > SGVF 0
    > Velocity Feedforward Gain (%)
    > SGAF 0
    > Acceleration Feedforward Gain (%)
    > -----------------------------------------------------
    >
    >
    > Regards,
    > JinHo"
    > NI Software :
    > LabVIEW version 6.0
    > NI Hardware :
    > Motion Control device PCI-7344
    > Driver Version :
    > no
    > OS :
    > Windows 2000
    > CPU :
    > Pentium
    > RAM :
    > 128
    > Vendor :
    > DELL
    > Customer Information :
    > Jin Ho Lee
    > North Carolina State Univ.
    > US
    > [email protected]
    > Ph: (
    > 919
    > )
    > 512-9929
    >
    >

    Yes, we used an NI PXI-7344 motion control card with an NI UMI-7764 box connected to a Gemini GV-U12E servo drive. (which is a drive only.)
    We did positional control in absolute position mode.
    I can send you an AutoCAD schematic detailing how to connect the UMI-7764 to the Gemini GV servo drive.
    In regard to the Rs232 interface to the GV servo drive,
    the GV drive only model is "configurable" not "programmable". You can create unique GV configuration files with Compumotor's Motion planner then download the configuration via Rs232 using LabVIEW as desired. Or, using LabVIEW via Rs232 you can change individual GV drive parameters on demand,
    or use the GV's two analog outputs back to LabVIEW's analog inputs to measure commanded motor current or torque, etc.etc.etc

  • How do I handle a count overflow while running "end's" rotation drive in position control?

    Hi everyone!
    We run a direct drive in position control mode and normally do oscillating movements i.e. +-10°. The Signal we get is a TTL with 120 counts/°. And with those counts we do our control.
    But now we want to run the motor permanent one direction for some days (or 4 ever :-). That means that we get sooner or later a overflow on the count variable. So I think we have a problem when the setpoint is on Overflow -32767 and the Position is 32767. ( I know that I can increase the Integer Value but that does not solve it at the end :-)
    How can I handle that?
    Is there any programmatic approach?
    Thanks for Help!

    Hi Petric,
    I do see the math but that does not help when I have more then one overflow, right?
    Well, you have to make sure you NEVER miss such an overflow event. It would be a big problem if you would detect just every second overflow…
    I got a big issue when the setpoint is jumping due to overflow! I have to handle that primarly.
    Have your control loop work with arbitrary units.
    Convert your measurement signal to arbitrary unit with handling overflows in this step.
    Convert your control output to output signal handling overflows as well…

  • Report for Positions by Trader in Securities

    Hi,
    I searched for various reports but could not find an option to select Trader in order to generate a report for positions (or journal/transactions/cash flows) in Securities.
    I need a report in Securities which should have a selection for Trader and Portfolio fields among others (similar to TPM20). Is there a way in the standard SAP reports?
    Thanks in advance,
    Durga.

    Hi,
    For securities, position management is supported at maximum against ID, Security Account/Portfolio/Fund and Gen Val Class   (Fund from EhP4 onwards).
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    If you wish to maintain trader wise position, the possible way out will be to map Gen Val Class or Portfolio one to one with Trader. Or develop a customized position report considering trader into consideration but condition/corporate action flows will not be under control as clarified by Ravi. Look for a customer exit code to call Trader in that case.
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  • Position Control - HR or Finance?

    It is believed that HR should manages the org structure and control the increases/decreases in positions.  Since Finance is managing the Budgets how do the increases, decreases or movement of positions monitored and reflected in the financial budgets?  Does Finance approve the changes to the number of position? or does Finance get a report to monitor the budget of positions?  If yes, which would be the best report so that Finance can get the information they need to monitor position budgets?  
    I just like to know how other international organizations manage their org structure and position control and the Finance department's involvement in controlling the budgets.  If available kindly send me links to documents or white papers on the subject.
    Thanks for your help.

    as you said
    HR shd manage the Organisational structure
    and Finance Budgets right
    The finance people can know Cost incurred for all the employees
    based on the PERSONAL NUMBERs and the results will posted to fico and u will get thru Cost Center  and that is assigned to GL account
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  • NI 9505 Closed Loop Position Control Example

    Hello, I have a cRIO 9073 with a NI 9505 module that I'd like to use for simple position control of a unit along a lead screw.
    I don't have the softmotion module, and am trying to write a program bassed off of the "Position Control (closed loop) - NI 9505" example to control the position the small motor attached to the lead screw (Faulhaber 2342S024CR with a 512 count/rev encoder that we had laying around)
    I've reviewed the manual PID tuning example, and have not had much luck getting the response that I'd like when making large position moves simply by adjusting Kp,Ki,Kd gains of the position loop, as the overshoot remains too high for this application when making large moves.  The system is also oscillating about the set point, and doesn't ever seem to dampen out unless I change things other parameters on the fly such as the current limit, or current loop parameters (osciallations get worse as current limit is increased).
    Can someone advise me if the components of this example are up to this task?  Or on the interactions between the current limit, current loop parameters, and position loop parameters from this example, and which parameters would have the most impact on achieving desirable system performance?
    Is there a VI available that can autotune such a motor?

    Hello - there are many reasons why a closed loop controller can oscillate - from correct settings of controller (kp,ki,kd) to making sure signals act in the appropriate direction to deadband/friction in the actuator to badly sized signals/actuators.
    Firstly, have a look at the signal your controller is outputing (ideally in LabVIEW so you can graph it). Does it oscillate - perhaps as a sawtooth, a sinewave or simply switching between maximum and minmum values. I presume the electrical motor driving the screw which is driven from some AO signal from the cRIO (could also be a PWM signal driving the motor).
    I expect (from what you say about current limit) the control signal will be oscillating by switching between maximum and minimum (e.g. +10V to -10V) or oscillating like a sinewave. What values of kp, ki, kd are you using ? If kd is non-zero, set it to zero (you only need worry about this if you want to get maximum performance). Is ki non-zero ? Try setting it to zero - any better ? If you are still getting big oscillations in your control signal, keep reducing kp (e.g. half each time?) until oscillations disappear (as you reduce kp, control signal *should* get smaller - maybe not straight way though).
    If this does not make oscillations go away, then it may be that you have a sign wrong in your loop - i.e. a positive control signal makes lead screw move in opposite direction controller expects. This should be a fundamental thing sorted out when setting up the loop - you could do an open test to check which way +ve voltage moves lead screw. If you find it moves in opposite direction - you can either re-wire, or put a "-1" gain on controller output.
    If there is any more subtle oscillations / obersvations, then try to show some plots of the lead screw motion and control signal, as that always helps when trying to diagnose what is going wrong.
    Good luck.
    Consultant Control Engineer
    www-isc-ltd.com

  • Position Control

    Can somebody please throw some light on 'Position Control' like
    a) What is the purpose of Position Control?
    b) How can 'Position Control' be used?
    If there is any document or metalink id, which can help me understanding more about 'Position Control', do please let me know.
    Appreciate your help in this regard.
    Cheers,
    Sriram

    Thanks for all the pointers.
    We are a single business group client and we have been live with Oracle HRMS for the past 3 years. We have been using the 'Define Position' PUI to create/update positions.
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  • Position Control Budgetting

    To use the Position control budgeting do we need separate HR Public Sector licensing.
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    Use the Position Transaction window to define and maintain position definitions for organizations that you have selected as position-control organizations.
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  • Position control and organizations

    Hi,
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    And regarding the screen with the path: (Oracle project costing> Setup> Resources and organizations> HR foundation> Work structures>Organizations> Description)
    Does the sysadmin enter the organization name or it is retrieved from the HR????
    Thank you very much
    Tasneem Ghnaimat

    Hi
    Position Control and Position Hierarchy have no meaning in the standard functionality and processes of Oracle Projects.
    I assume Position Hierarchy may be used when customizing some of the Approval Processes Workflows.
    For example a person is assigned in a position of project manager, and another person is assigned in the position of Engineering department manager. In the position hierarchy the various project managers are set up as reporting to that manager.
    Now in Oracle Projects you could setup a workflow for approving a project and for approving the budgets. That workflow could send the approval request from the project manager to the higher level on thta hierarchy, to the Engineering Department Manager.
    Dina

  • Stepper motor positioning control system

    hello
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    Shaham

    Shaham,
    Below is a link to several encoders that NI provides specifically for stepper motors.
    Quadrature Encoder:
    http://sine.ni.com/nips/cds/view/p/lang/en/nid/205321
    As far as the C code is concerned, this can be accomplished in two different ways, provided that the code is first placed in a dll file.  
    First, you can import the dll into a project library, by selecting Tools»Import»Shared Library.  This option is good for code that will be used often, as it creates wrapper VIs for each function that can be reused.
    Secondly, a "Call Library Function" node can be used to call a C function from a dll.  This procedure is shown in the following tutorial, and is useful when code only needs to be called a few times.
    http://decibel.ni.com/content/docs/DOC-9069
    I hope this helps!
    Drew
    Drew T.
    NIC AE Specialist

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