Anyone have trouble convincing database infrastructure support to use Apex?

Question

Hi,
I am consulting at a very large bank which outsources its database operations to another company. As such, the outsourcing group has very strict rules surrounding database usage. I have been using Application Express for a while now and would like to use it on projects for my current client. Unfortuneately, the outsourcing group has decided to reject usage of Application Express since it requires additional services (the web server) that they do not sancion running on database server. They also cited the email capbilities and web services as reasons why they shun it's usage.
Anyone else run into this? If so, anyone successful in overcoming the arguments being made by this group? In my opinion they are just being lazy in that they don't want to deal with something new. Instead of building processes to monitor and control what they fear they have decided to not deal with it entirely and the effect is lost productivity of not being able to use technology such as Apex.

Answer 1

Hi Bill,
Oh I feel your pain, I've heard that sort of argument many times before (so excuse the cynicism/humour in my replies, it's not directed at you...it's against 'them') -
Unfortuneately, the outsourcing group has decided to reject usage of Application Express
since it requires additional services (the web server) that they do not sancion running on
database server.As Bob says, you can install the OHS on another machine if that is their primary concern. Infact many times you might want it on a seperate machine anyway. As for the 'requires additional services', show me one component of Oracle that doesn't rely on another ;)
Do they object to running the listener on the machine so that you can connect to it? Thought not ;)
They also cited the email capbilities and web services as reasons why they shun it's usage. The easy answer is...if they don't like them, don't use them.
My 'cynical' answer would be, have they removed the UTL_MAIL/UTL_TCP packages from the DB? Do they know they're there?
In my opinion they are just being lazy in that they don't want to deal with something new.Harsh...but I somewhat agree with you, it's easy to dismiss offhand things that we don't know about, it takes a braver person to stand up and say "Dang....this tool is *so* much better than the one I just spent years learning" ;)
The thing is, pretty much every argument I've heard against using APEX can either be disproved or counteracted, so long as it is a technical reason (or even just an 'urban myth'). However if it's a 'business rule' that you don't use 'XYZ' technology then it's often incredibly difficult to change that rule.
However, I have come across a surprising number of 'Guerilla Projects', where even though APEX wasn't 'officially' used as a development tool by a company, some 'enterprising' developers have got hold of it, developed something, released it to users and changed perception that way (as Bob again mentions).
In additional to Bob's other comment about setting up a test machine, why not show them what can be done in just a few minutes using the public Oracle site (http://apex.oracle.com), since a quick visual click-and-show often changes opinions a lot faster than giving them 200 pages of documentation ;)