Aperture 2.1.4 to PS CS4 External Editor Color Profile issues????

Anyone else experience this?
I shoot Nikon D700 and D90 with sRGB color space. When I send a file to CS4 via external editor, PS prompts that my embedded color space is Adobe 1998. ***??????
I immediately went and checked all my settings on my camera and they're fine. Is this Aperture's doing? PS? maybe even SL?
Dazed and Confused
Message was edited by: rtd2870

Aperture uses the Adobe 1998 color space as it has a wider color gamut than sRGB. Like most things in Aperture, you choose your color space on export.
sRGB is used primarily for the web, and some printers that accept RGB files ask for sRGB because their printers can't match the Adobe 1998 Gamut.
If your camera is capable of shooting Adobe 1998, you should, but it doesn't really matter when shooting RAW.
DLS

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Aperture 3.3 Bug? Dragging to external editor can modify the original

As a follow-up to the thread below I explored the role of the previews in Aperture:
Edited image appears then quickly reverts to original?
The problem: When dragging images from the Browser to Photoshop (supposedly passing along a preview of the image) the original image file in Aperture could be overwritten.
Experimenting with this I found that the result depended on the size of the image, for the following reasons:
If the Preview size was set to a larger value than the actual image size, then Aperture would not generate a preview for images without a preview, but pass the original image to Photoshop. Saving back the changes in Photoshop would modify the original master image file in the Aperture 3.3. For images larger than the Preview size, Aperture 3.3 would pass a new quasi master to Photoshop - rather wasteful, since this quasi master is not linked to a version and this not accessable in Aperture.
Experimenting showed, that the same happens with dragging to GraphicConverter, but the changes to the original are only visible after quitting and relaunching Aperture.
I would be grateful if someone could check out these observations:
Do you also see, that no previews are generated in Aperture 3.3, if the original image is smaller than the preview size set in the preferences?
Can you confirm, that Photoshop modifies the original image files, if the image does not have a preview image, and if the image is passed by dragging from the browser?
I tested the same in Aperture 3.2.4: Here it seems to be impossible to drag an imageto Photoshop and GraphicConverter, if it does not have a preview image - very sensible.
Regards
Léonie
A modified original image returned from Photoshop:

This still has not been fixed
I just tried again in Aperture 3.4.3:
I Imported this image file (pixelsize 260 × 551) into Aperture:
Then I dragged it from the Browser to "Preview", annoted it with an arrow, pressed "Save".
And now the Aperture browser shows this:
Aperture 3.4.3, MacOS X 10.8.3

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Hi all,
I'm finally setting up Aperture to export to Photoshop Elements (10). In the Aperture preferences, I'm asking it to export to PSE 10 as 16-bit TIFF files. What color space should I indicate (if any)? It's currently set to "no profile selected." I'm not a professional; just an enthusiast. I print on an Epson RX580 Photo Stylus printer, if that matters.
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Can I suggest you buy Philip Andrews book, Advanced Photoshop Elements 10. he explains colour spaces and much much more very clearly and exactly what can be done with 16 bit files and what you then have to change to 8 bit to accomplish. He's written basic and advanced guides for Elements since day one. Usually available from Amazon for under £20.

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Aperture - Edit with External Editor - Photoshop

Hi,
I recently made my first attempt via Aperture to "Edit with External Editor" and in my case I have the preferences set to export to Photoshop CS4 Extended. The External Editor File Format (in preferences) selected is TIFF and as advised by Apple's Help menu this is set at 16-bit. The External Editor Color Spaces is set to Adobe-RGB (1998).
I selected an image with some barrel distortion, hit the export button, and Aperture sent the new master to Photoshop. I did my fixing and saved. This automatically sends the updated file to Aperture. This is very handy and practical but I was shocked to see the size of the new and fixed file. The original file was a JPEG at 4MB and the new fixed file was a colossal 200+ MB file. I ended up throwing away the new file - too large.
I am just wondering if this is normal? This is my first time using the Edit with External Editor in Aperture and I am also quite clueless about using Photoshop efficiently and properly. Could I have done something differently and received the new and fixed file at a smaller size?
Thanks for your advice and help.
Chau

Chau wrote:
I am just wondering if this is normal? This is my first time using the Edit with External Editor in Aperture and I am also quite clueless about using Photoshop efficiently and properly. Could I have done something differently and received the new and fixed file at a smaller size?
This is normal.
TIFF files get rather large and the 200 MB sounds about right. If I send a 1.63 MB JPEG at the same settings in PS CS5, I get a 134 MB TIFF after applying the Lens Correction filter and saving.
If I send the same file as a TIFF 8-bit in Adobe-RGB (1998), I get back a 54.73 MB file.
You could therefore send as an 8-bit TIFF to reduce the size. Additionally, the PSD format tends to return a slightly smaller file size (51.xx MB in the case here).
A JPEG file is actually only an 8-bit file, so it isn't really necessary to go to 16-bit, but many users like to protect against further degradation of the JPEG when editing externally (especially from posterization where smooth gradients - such as a sky - start to break down into visible steps in the color transition).
I personally send as TIFF 8-bit in the sRGB color space and if the image shows degradation, then I might change to the TIFF 16-bit (or simply not use that image).

Cannot get Aperture External Editor to work with CS2

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I've been trying to get Aperture to work with CS2 as the External Editor. After setting the Aperture prefs and trying it out, CS2 opens, but goes into an eternal wait state without the picture ever showing up. After this happens, CS2 no longer works correctly by itself, even after a restart. It again goes into an eternal wait state. Reloading CS2 from scratch makes it work OK. I tried again, but alas trying to get CS2 hooked up to Aperture again repeated the problem and I had to reload CS2 yet again to get it working. Any ideas as to what I'm doing wrong or how to get this feature working.
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Hi!
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Why use an external editor?

I have done a search on this basic question, but everyone is at least one step ahead of me. I found lots of questions about using external editors, but none on why to use one if the first place.
It's self-evident that the basic answer is to extend Aperture's capabilities. So let me narrow the focus of my question as follows:
1. Just out of curiousity, there must be at least some overlap in things that Aperture does and what the external editor can do, correct?
2. Can you share some guidelines as to when you would stay in Aperture itself and when you would use the external editor through Aperture?
3. An obvious question is why use Aperture when you have an external editor? The most likely answer is that Aperture does some things better, and the external editor does other things better. So does it come down to experience in deciding which program to use for what? As someone whose post processing has, for years, been limited to cropping, that's a pretty daunting reality. Any advice anyone can offer to offset my inexperience would be appreciated. For example, someone on a share-your-image type forum just blasted me when I posted something labled as my first effort at using a RAW file. I made "local" changes here and there in the image. He told me I'm doing things "totally wrong" and I should make global changes, and avoid making local changes. I don't know if he's right or not, but if he is, how was I to know that? So again, any advice for a PP newb would be great.
Thanks!
Ben

Good questions, Ben!
And probably the answers are a matter of taste and personal preferences, and depending on the workflow we are using.
2. Can you share some guidelines as to when you would stay in Aperture itself and when you would use the external editor through Aperture?
For me, the escape to an external editor is an occasionally necessary evil, if I really need to do things well, that Aperture cannot do. The problem is, that using an external editor will break Aperture's lossless workflow; it will create an additional original image file, and Aperture cannot undo the edits done in the external editor. And the additional original files will be gigantic 16bit tiffs or PSD files. So I would never use the external editor without a pressing need.
I use an external editor, if I need to create images with transparency or do advanced retouching that requires the composition of two or more images. That are things that Aperture cannot do.
Or, if I have images that need lens correction or perspective correction.
3. An obvious question is why use Aperture when you have an external editor?
I use Aperture first of all, to keep my images organised - my Aperture library is my database of all photos I have taken during my lifetime.
And I use Aperture to edit the images and to keep track of the edited image versions and how they relate. For 99% of my image processing needs Aperture is sufficient and great.
-- Léonie

New AP3 Version Has Muted Colors when Using External Editor

Hi All,
I'm having a frustrating problem. I just noticed that files that I've edited using an external editor (PS5) come back to Aperture with significantly dulled colors. At first I thought it was something that PS was doing. Then, I realized that this was happening to the new versions created by Aperture even before the external editor was completely launched.
Right when you select "edit with Adobe Photoshop CS5.app" Aperture creates a new version - right then I can see the colors being dulled/muted. I don't for the life of me know how to avoid this from happening.
My export settings are:
- 16 bit TIFF
- DPI: 300
- External editor color space: Adobe RGB (1998)
Any help in this would be greatly appreciated.

I'm taking a look now. It's perplexing (to say the least).
There is definitely a shift in the created-for-external-editor Version (I'm seeing the same color shift, almost exclusively in the middle- and high-tone cyans, but not quite to the same degree as you). I using my usual settings of 16-bit and "No Profile Selected".
Although the shifted version shows in Aperture, it does not show in PS-CS5. In other words, the shift is somehow removed when the file is opening in PS. When the file is closed in PS, the shifted version remains in Aperture.
The histogram is very different for the Versions in Aperture.
The color values shown in the Loupe and in the color meter (which shows in the Info Pane at the top of the Adjustments tab of the Inspector) are +the same+ for the Versions, though the histograms are different and the images are dissimilar.
I am seeing -- as best I can tell; it's clearly time to take notes -- inconsistent behavior. Sometimes a shifted Preview will not have a shifted full view. When I send a previously edited in PS Version back to PS, sometimes the shift disappears.
If I have the time later I'll make a chart. I can confirm that something is amiss. I don't edit that many images in PS, but I still do so regularly, and I have never noticed this before. (My images are in general neither saturated nor blue, so it is possible that there has been nothing to notice in those images. I have some very blue JPGs which I may try.) My hunch, though, it that this will end up being traced to something in the RAW conversion done to captures made with this camera.
*Anyone have any underwater RAW captures made with a camera other than a Nikon?*
Message was edited by: Kirby Krieger

Editing in external editor (Elements 8)

When I right click and edit in external editor and then save it back into Aperature, the photo is not reflecting any changes that I made. Is anyone experiencing this?

fl2 wrote:
When I right click and edit in external editor and then save it back into Aperature, the photo is not reflecting any changes that I made. Is anyone experiencing this?
Are you sure you looking at the correct file in Aperture? The file returned from the external editor will have the either PSD or TIFF as the extension depending on the file type you have chosen to export.
The changes won't be reflected in the version you sent to he editor.

Deleting versions from external editor

I am sure this question has come up before, but I cannot seem to find it in a forum search.
I have my original RAW in Aperture. I use the "Open with external editor" command, make changes in PhotoShop and save. Aperture now has the "original" RAW and the "altered" PS file.
However, now I decide that I don't like the PS edits and want to delete that file. When I select is and choose "delete version" I get a dialog stating that a master will be deleted and there is no undo. If I allow the delete, the PS version and the original RAW are both trashed. I want to keep the RAW and delete the "altered" PS version.
What am I doing wrong and is there any way around this?

Yes, it should only delete the edited version if you have the edited version and only the edited version selected and not as just the main selection with the others in the stack selected. It should also delete any versions made from the edited master, but should leave the original master and it's versions intact.
I just tested this on my system and it did as expected.
Just take a sample image and import it with the sole intention of opening with the external editor and then selecting just the externally edited and deleting it. I know you're sure you had just the edited master selected, but are you sure sure?

Add choice of multiple external editors

The 1.1 enhancements do make LR more usable, but please add more context menu slots (via Preferences) for multiple external editors.
I frequently use two very different tools for localized image editing on TIFFs because they are radically different tools for solving different problems. To choose the un-preferenced editor, I have to first go to Preferences dialog, change the application selection, close the dialog, then launch the editor, then switch back the next time I want to use the first external editor.
I doubt that I am the only Lightroom user with more than one non-Adobe editing tool (noise reducers, sharpening tools, re-sizing tools, etc.)
I have no intention of using Photoshop; the fixed slot for Photoshop is wasted on me and probably many other users.

From my comment in another topic:
[Only allowing a single external editor] is an issue even when using Adobe products. I use Photoshop Elements as my editor and don't have CS3, and LR forces me to use the single "External Editor" spot for the Elements editor.
I wish they'd recognize Elements as my primary external editor and let me call Neat Image (digital noise reducer) as my secondary editor directly from LR. As it stands, I have to open in Elements editor, then choose the Neat Image filter.
I know I could specify NI as my external editor but I still need the Elements editor for touch-ups.
Thanks to the Adobe Lightroom team for reading these feature requests and seriously considering them.
- Stew

Color profile problem after installing CS4

OK.
First, let me post these side-by-side comparisons:
As you can see in Image 1 (the "before," left-side photo in each comparison), the colors and overall appearance are distorted. I've read things about gamma but it's all confusing to me. This is surely a color profile problem, right? The transition among pixels that involve colors of yellow and gray is rocky, grainy, and the flat out color is just wrong. Now this color problem affects pictures when opened in both Photoshop 7.0 and the standard Windows Photo Viewer. Meaning, whenever I open pictures in both PS 7.0 and Windows Photo Viewer (my default viewer), this color problem totally messes up certain photos and really damages my ability to edit. I'm an avid photo editor and it's imperative I have proper color display so that I can accurately edit. Keep in mind that certain pictures do not take on this error. When a photo is generally brighter, the distortion is basically invisible. It's photos that are dark or have dark portions in them that display the distortion.
*Note: I took these before-and-after pictures with my camera, because screencapping would not work, since you all don't have the same color profile issue on your computer. That's the only way I can show you!
HOWEVER, when I open photos in another standard Windows application, "Microsoft Office Picture Manager," the color problem is magically erradicated altogether. It shows photos as I've been seeing them all along, until I installed CS4 about two weeks ago. Before installing CS4, everything was fine and I had been using Photoshop 7 for years and have never had a problem. I'm guessing CS4 messed something up. It had to have. Just FYI, I uninstalled CS4, hoping it would reverse the problem. But still, the color issue persists in PS 7 and in my regular Windows Photo Viewer.
Since images display their true form in Windows Office Picture Manager, I don't think I need to calibrate my screen. Or do I? I've read things about it, and to some people, it's not necessary. Right? Okay. I really hope someone can give some advice! Thank you!
P.S. Here's the original photo. On my screen, it looks distorted when opened in photoshop or opened w/the viewer. However, here on Firefox, it's fine.

You should try to familiarize yourself with the concepts of color management.
It's kind of too in-depth a subject to walk you through from a cold start here... There are a lot of good resources out there to help you get started. For example, in just a few seconds Google turned up this:
http://www.adobepress.com/articles/article.asp?p=1315593
The one thing to remember is this: There is NO quick solution, easy set of defaults, or direct answer to making your setup do what you want without your having to understand color management.
People may tell you to calibrate your monitors, or use a particular color profile as a default, or whatever, and they may have good, solid reasons for telling you those things, but if you don't attempt to get your mind around color management it will always seem as though something isn't working right, or is simply magic, which will be frustrating to you.
Here are some basic questions to ponder:
What image color profile is your image carrying?
Is your monitor a wide-gamut display and do you have a color profile set up for it? What kind of monitor is it?
What version of Windows are you running?
Do you know the difference between a color-managed app and one that is not color-managed?
Which of the apps you're using/showing above are color-managed?
What are your settings in Edit - Color Settings?
Take some time and do some research, get your head around the concepts, and it will all make more sense I promise you.
-Noel

Faces issue when selecting 'edit with CS4' (or any other external editor)

Ok, so I have a work flow where I effectively use Nik Plugins. I have the complete set so that i can use them in Aperture and CS4. I correct exposure and white balance and crop in Aperture but then have automators set up in CS4 to apply Nik plugin effects via a batch change process ie no manual adjustments needed, start the batch and come back 20 mins later. Anyway thats somewhat irrelevant....
Once stage one is done in Aperture I select faces and see that all looks fine. Suggestions appear over faces etc as you'd expect. BUT if I then select edit with CS4 (via right click) on that image it creates a duplicate image (as its non-destructive) and opens it in CS4. Fine. But if you go in to Aperture the faces on this duplicate image are now all messed up. They are not at all over peoples faces but seemingly in random places. Right click and selecting detect faces does nothing. So in summary if I edit anything with CS4 and hit save so that the changes appear in Aperture then hit faces to tag people I have to effectively start from scratch and delete all the faces (not over peoples faces) and add new faces.
The best way to illustrate this is with screenshots. See this link for 2 screenshots of the issue. http://adamlewis.zenfolio.com/screenshot
Can someone else confirm they have this issue at all first off to see if it is a specific issue to myself or a generic Aperture issue?
After that I guess we can proceed with troubleshooting and solutions.
PS I have repaired my library and rebuilt it and have upgraded Aperture to the latest 3.2.2 (released today / yesterday but note the issue was found under 3.2.1 so its not a 3.2.2 specific issue).

Maybe I should have made it clearer in my original post. The 1st paragraph was just for colour. The fact of using Nik has nothing to do with the issue. The below quote is the issue:
"Suggestions appear over faces etc as you'd expect. BUT if I then select edit with CS4 (via right click) on that image it creates a duplicate image (as its non-destructive) and opens it in CS4. Fine. But if you go in to Aperture the faces on this duplicate image are now all messed up. They are not at all over peoples faces but seemingly in random places."
Thus the issue is generated by merely selecting Edit with CS4. ie no editing done in CS4 and not even saved in CS4. Just selecting edit with CS4 in Aperture creates the duplicate image in Aperture (and sends it to CS4 but lets assume we do nothing with it there at all) but creates a duplicate with face tags in the wrong places.
After further investigation I changed my external editing software option in preferences to Pixelmator and the same issue occurs.
So to replicate the issue in my place there are 2 simple steps that I need to make (and would like tested by someone else):
1. Tag some peoples faces in an Aperture image
2. Select edit with (any external editor)
Then go back in to Aperture (immediately) and select faces on the duplicate image created and see if the faces are in the correct position.
Note I have my external editor set to TIFF 8 Bit 300dpi using Adobe RGB colour space.
Thanks for your time.
Message was edited by: loobola

How to add more than 1 External Editor to Aperture 3?

I am evaluating Aperture 3...I have LR, CS4 as well as some of the editors from Nik Software e.g. Viveza, DFine...How can I add more than one of these as external editors without going into Preferences and changing Export every single time when I want to edit a photo with one of these?
Thnx

you always use ps for the external editor. To use the plug ins, you simply pick edit with plugin when you right click on a file to edit.

Using Adobe Bridge as Aperture 3 External Editor

I have a problem that I can't seem to solve and I'm hopeful that a post here can get me closer to some resolution. I recently started using Bridge for noise reduction and PS for high pass sharpening. The downside is my work flow is now shot full of holes! I have Bridge as my external editor; I make the edits in Bridge then do a high pass sharpen as well as any other edits I might choose to make in PS. If I need to, I flatten the image if I have layers. It is here that my problem begins.
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I use Bridge as editor because once there, I go into "camera raw" to process images.
So now you're bringing a third app into the equation. Bridge, ACR and Photoshop are all individual applications. If you're not using an app like Aperture then Bridge might be the front end for the other two, but in the case you describe it has no role.
Another thing to think about: ACR ("camera Raw") is for processing Raws - which job you are currently doing with Aperture. You're not sending Raws to Bridge/ACR... You're sending tiffs.
I think you need to rethink your workflow somewhat. I'm not sure you've grasped what the various tools actually do.
Regards
TD

Aperture 2.1.4 to PS CS4 External Editor Color Profile issues????

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