Aperture 3.3.2 highlight shadows & recovery
Hi all,
I just wanted to hear your opinion about the new highlight and shadows + recovery in aperture 3.3.2.
In my opinion these features were way better in the previous version.
What do you think? Why did apple make such a drastic change?
Walter, see this discussions on some solutions to bring the old Highlight-and-shadows-Brick back:
How to not miss that olde-tyme Highlights & Shadows 7-slider Brick
Thanks to Kirby Krieger
Regards
Léonie
Similar Messages
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Highlight and Shadow Recovery in Aperture?
Hey folks,
I am still pretty new at using Aperture 3, but I was very curious to know if it has a similar feature as Lightroom 4 does with its highlight and shadow recovery feature. I am really impressed with how this works in Lightroom 4 and would be curious to see if this would work in Aperture. Thanks!DiploStrat wrote:
Andy, you owe us an advanced tutorial on shadow recovery.
I find it interesting that 3.5's "Auto Fix" always seems to include a healthy dose of shadow lift.
LOL. I haven't forgotten Frederick, honest. But a few things have been happening that put it down the priority list.
And, I've become increasingly frustrated at the way things are being run over at DPR, in particular the way the so called moderators in some of the forums are deleting content, not only for alleged rule breaches but based on their personal opinions and friendships it seems. Complaints either go unanswered, or given the generic 'moderators actions can't be discussed'. Gee - 'Can't be discussed', hardly surprising some of them feel they have the power to do what they like! If it can't be discussed, my only real power is to take my clicks and content somewhere else.
So I'm in two minds if I want to publish it on DPR or just leave it until my new site is ready.
But it's actually a partially related subject that has really side-tracked me. I've beed in touch with the developer of the old Enfuse Edit Plug-in for Aperture to find out if there were any plans to make it compatible with Aperture 3.
He explained he doesn't have the resources to work on it at the moment, so I offered to take the Plug-In and make it compatible.
I've now done that and have it working on my system, and I'm just putting the finishing touches to an installation script to work around some gatekeeper/quarantine issues. The first version is going to be a little rough as it's essentially just a recompile of the old beta, with a couple of inelegant work arounds for the issues encountered. If there's any interest in it, I'll start finessing it a little.
If you're unfamiliar with Enfuse, it's a command line program that takes multiple images with different exposures a blends them together using the best exposure from each (base on some settings).
enfuseEdit is an Edit plug-in for Aperture where you can select the images to be blended and have the result returned directly to Aperture.
Here's a small example I made with the plugin:
The two exposures (actually 2 versions of the same raw with different exposure adjustments):
And the 'enfused' output:
Andy -
LR 4.1 where did highlight and shadow recovery go?
I just upgraded to lightroom 4.1 and the highlight and shadow recovery sliders have disappeared. It now looks like me old version 2. What happened to the new sliders?
You may be seeing Lr3 settings i.e. Process Version 2010 rather than Process Version 2012, or vice versa. Anything imported into Lighytroom 4 that wasn't edited in an earlier version will be Proces Version 2012, which uses a completely new set of adjustments. Anything edited in an earlier version of Lr will be PV2010 or earlier.
In PV2010 we had Highlight Recovery and Fill Light, both only operated in positive direction, which was/is usually thought of as recovery. The terms hightlight and Shadow recovery don't apply in PV2012 because the new sliders operate in both positive and neagtive directions. You can switch between the two process version by first selecting the image then choosing the appropriate option form the Process drop down menu in Camera Calibration panel (DEvelop module)
The following screenshots are from Lr4.1 and might help address your concern.
PV2010
PV2012 -
Highlight and shadow recovery sliders?
Do the highlight and shadow recovery sliders in the brush and gradient tool panels do the EXACT same thing as those sliders in the main panel? I know they will only apply to the area affected by the brush/gradient while the main panel is a global adjustment.
For example, does a 100% shadow recovery on the main panel result in the same result as a 100% shadow recovery brushed into an area, when comparing the same area?Interesting -- I would have (naively) guessed there wasn't a difference. But a simple test shows there are small but noticeable differences.
Start with an original photo. Make two virtual copies. In one copy, apply the global shadows +50. In the other copy, apply the adjustment brush with feather, flow, and density = 100 and automask off across the entire pic; then set brush shadows = +50. Export the two virtual copies as 16-bit TIFFs into Photoshop. Stack them as layers in a single image. This lets you see small differences just by enabling or disabling the top layer. With my test pic, I can clearly see small differences.
To quantify the differences, set the top layer's blending mode to Difference, merge the two layers, and invoke Image > Adjustments > Levels to see the histogram.
Here's my original test pic:
And here are the differences as computed in Photoshop:
As you can see from the histogram, the differences are in the range of 5 parts out of 255. They are greater in the shadows than the highlights.
Here's a Dropbox folder with the original raw and the two exported TIFFs. -
New HIGHLIGHTS/SHADOWS not as useful?
Maybe I'm showing my amateur-ness here, but I'm not getting as good a results w/ the new updated HIGHLIGHTS/SHADOWS brick.
I didn't use the old one much, but I liked the SHADOWS to merely bump up some shots (slightly) and I sometimes used HIGHLIGHTS when RECOVERY didn't get me quite there.
But the new one doesn't seem to give me much of any adjustment unless I'm near 50% on either slider. And then it's fairly drastic. Not the "incrimental" nudges I got used to on the previous versions.
Anyone else noticing this?Yes. I didn't take kindly to the change. There are posts here on how to make the old Brick available (Léonie has made it easy for you) -- I have assigned it to a keyboard shortcut.
That said, the new Brick is more useful than I first thought. Like you, I was used to the _scale_ of the sliders in the old Brick, and shocked to find that what I had internalized as "enough" had become "not visible".
You have to train your mouse-hand with the new Brick's sliders as a totally new Brick, not as a modified version of the old Brick. Now that I am comfortable with the scale (and the variation within the scale, as you point out), the new Brick is nowhere near as useless (and offensive for this) as I first judged it to be.
I still would like to have ready access to the old "Width" sliders, however.
Do us a favor and leave the orchard keepers a note asking for an improved or merged H & S Brick: "Aperture➞Provide Aperture Feedback".
OT: "Amateur" only recently became a term of denigration. The change seems to be part of the corporatization of public life. I am an amateur, as proud of that as of my professional accomplishments.
Message was edited by: Kirby Krieger -- links and OT commentary added. -
Highlight/shadow sliders changing back to LR3
I just downloaded LR4 as a trial. Everything seemed to install just fine, but when I open LR4, the new whites highlights shadows blacks sliders instantly turn back to the old LR3 recovery fill light sliders....I see them for about 3 seconds and they change right before my eyes. Why is it doing this?
In develop module... down right corner...!... update to current proces.> update all in filmstrip
Or down right module .... Camera calibration...process.... change to 2012. -
Highlight/Shadow Clipping Indicator - Show the image too.
The highlight/shadow clipping indicator feature (Alt/Exposure or Alt/Blacks on my PC. Not sure what it is on a MAC)is marvellous and indispensible. But, it could be better, in my view.
When you are checking for clipping using this feature, the image disappears leaving you with only the clipped pixels. Everything else goes black.
The problem is that you only see the effect of your decision on how much clipping you want to allow (if any) when you take you finger off the Alt key.
It is vital, particularly when judging shadow clipping, which is so important in setting the overall contrast of the image, to be able to see the effect of your actions in real time. These actions can be so subjective.
So, would it be possible for the highlight and shadow clipping (i.e. the blown pixels) to appear in the form of a colour on the image, *but* keeping the image visible at all times?
Thinking about it further......it would be great to be able to switch between 'blacked out' and visible in Preferences, or some such.
Thanks.
D.>Just curious though, where on the Adobe site would I have found this extremely useful piece of information?
You might start with Photoshop help, which explains those controls and directs you to a
Video Turorial on the Adobe web site.
While the help is well done, ACR is a pretty complex topic, and for a more in depth coverage I would recommend the latest edition of Bruce Fraser's Real World Camera Raw, which Jeff has updated and will be available soon. -
Does anyone have problems using the highlights, shadows and sharpness controls in iphoto 11? Since I uploaded Mountain Lion on my
mac mini, those editing features no longer work!!!!Sorry, I booted into 10.8 just to test this, but I only have iPhoto 08.
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Highlights, Shadows, Whites, Blacks
So in the Basic panel of the Develop module, there are sliders for:
Highlights
Shadows
Whites
Blacks
Is it just me or from a workflow perspective, wouldn't it make more sense to have them listed as:
Whites
Highlights
Shadows
Blacks
While playing with the beta, I found myself working with highlights and whites together or working with blacks and shadows together. The jumping around in that panel meant I had to pay way more attention to it than necessary which was distracting.
Anyone else or am I just too uptight?!Despite the fact that I see the "top down" approach, I would still rather sacrifice that a little bit and instead having the sliders in the photographic order.
Top down is only valid for the first run. After that, I usually find myself adjust here and there a little bit. And that usually take quite a bit more time than the first run.
So when sanitizing the shadows/blacks for instance, the jumping seems tedious. -
The basic sliders disappeared. Including the Exposure, Contrast, Highlights, Shadows, Whites, Blacks, Clarity and Vibrance Sliders are no longer available. I need help to get them back on the program.
I can't figure out where the sliders went and how to put them back on. Anyone have any suggestions?
ThanksIn Lightroom, go to the Window menu, select Panels, select Basic
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Sorting order for Highlights, Shadows, Whites and Blacks controls.
I absolutely love the new set of controls as compared to the similar options in LR3. With just these 6 controls and a few seconds I can get my image looking great. One thing is making me crazy though, the four controls are logically sorted "Whites, Highlights, Shadows, Blacks" in terms of the range that they impact. If the controsl were sorted as I suggested, I would be able to think through the problem of fixing a particular image more efficiently.
Has this been discussed or considered?tomalphin wrote:
I should add, with only four items in question, putting the two you are most likely to use slightly closer together will result in little gained efficiency. Having them sorted in a manner that is easier to teach, learn and internalize will likely lead to better results for a larger percentage of users.
Further, if they were sorted in the manner I suggest, it would be possible to further strengthen the understanding of how the features work by showing a color curve overlay on the histogram. This would make it even easier for folks to understand how these six abstract controls affect the image.
It sounds like there is a mix of rational and reactive pushback to this approach from the vocal audience on this forum. I would be very interested to see how the two compared in blind lab studies with participants of comparable experience. (Including new and existing users... I would like to think that Adobe is saavy enough to realize that it is important to court new users if they want to grow their customer base and profit opportunity.)
If there's one thing we can pull from this whole discussion, it's that there's no way for Adobe to make everyone happy on this issue. There just isn't. Some people absolutely hate that the sliders are ordered as the are in LR4b, others seem to think it makes perfect sense. Both are adamant in their stance. So now it becomes this whole over-blown issue of," What percentage of users like it this way compared to that way." I'm sorry, but I just don't understand why it's such a big deal. Is it that hard to use the controls in the order that Adobe placed them in LR4b. Really? Is it? Is it really that slow for you high-volume photographers out there? Is it really something that you won't completely get used to in all of a few hours of using LR4?
The current sort order of the sliders in LR4b is not necessarily just an order-of-operations that is being thrust upon Lightroom users. The rationale is that the controls follow an order which, in most cases for most photographs, flows from the most global adjustments to the most specific. It's more than just an arbitrary ordering based on "what Adobe says we ought to do first".
The truth is, while I understand Adobe's reasoning here, I really don't care what order the sliders end up in. Why? Because it really doesn't matter all that much, at all. I mean, think about it. Let's say that the current order of the sliders in LR4b makes it to the final version. Are users going to keep using Lightroom 3 in protest? No. Are users going to keep all their photos in PV2010 expressly because they simply can't handle the order of the sliders in PV2012? No. The reason that nobody will go to such lengths is that it's reallly just not that important. This is an exceptionally minor issue of personal preference that has less weight and importance than the hard drive space at Adobe used to store all of the threads that have popped up in complaint of the slider order.
I know that everyone vehemently arguing against the current slider order will whole-heartedly disagree... but I simply had to put in my two-cents. The issue of slider order is so miniscule that I cannot fathom why so much has already been written about it.
EDIT*****
An afterthought...
Really? "Blind lab studies" to scientifically determine what order to put LR4 sliders in? C'mon guys... you've got to be kidding me... -
For some reason all the images in Aperture 3 library have had their highlights go red and the shadow area goes blue. I can correct them one at a time with contrast control. This just happen on its on after I uploaded MOuntain Lion. Now when I go to transfer images from iPhoto this happens. The images are all right in iPhoto but this is not the case with Apeerture. I have 15,000 images in Aperture 3 and I can't afford the time to correct them one at a time. What is it that I did to cause this problem?
You have "Highlight Hot and Cold Areas" turned on.
Toggle this on/off from the View menu.
Thresholds are set at "Aperture➞Preferences➞Advanced". (I have mine set to 100% ~ it's not clear what the scale is.)
Message was edited by: Kirby Krieger -
Canon MKIII Highlight tone recovery V ACR recovery
I can see the point of using the 1D MKIII's HTR feature with JPEGS for high contrast range subjects to hold important highlight detail.
What is the consensus re in-camera HTR for RAW, versus no in-camera HTR and using highlight recovery in AR V4 on RAW files? (less chance of shadow noise with ACR as highlight specific adjustment)
Are Canon merely reducing the exposure at the highlight end and increasing overall exposure from shadows up the scale hence their advisory notice that HTR technology may increase shadow noise?>Personally, I would prefer to have the histogram show the true status of the exposure and not some shifted value
>What is "true status"? The in-camera histogram is based on the camera settings, which have no impact on the raw data. I would prefer raw histogram shown in-camera, at least as an option, but I don't think many customers share this preference.
This issue has been covered many times. Since the histogram is derived from the JPEG preview with most cameras, you should set the contrast to low. Contrast affects the quarter tones much more than the extremes of the histogram. If you want to see the channels without white balance, at least with Nikon cameras, you can upload a special white balance to the camera where the red and blue multiplers are set to unity (UniWB). Also you can upload a TRC to the camera to undo the gamma encoding, but I've never tried this.
If you do a bit of experimenting, you can correlate the camera histogram with the raw file and have a pretty good idea of what is going on with the raw file, and you can gain quite a bit of control over the histogram. Some cameras indicate clipping in the histogram when there is none in the raw file, and this can be corrected with the proper TRC.
IMHO, a raw linear histogram is not a good idea, since the data would be scrunched up on the left. A log base 2 histogram would correspond to f/stops and that would be my preference and also corresponds with human luminance perception, which is log.
>The exposure with HTP On is the same as with HTP Off, but the ISO will be halved with HTP On (that's the reason for HTP working only from ISO 200 up). The loss in the raw data is the least significant bit. As the 1DMkIII creates 14-bit raw data, this loss is practically meaningless (assuming that the extra bits or at least the first of them is not random).
If you halve the exposure, shot noise will be increased by a factor of 1.4 across the tonal range. Usually dynamic range is limited by the noise floor, rather than by quantization. The 14 bit ADC wouldn't address the increased shot noise, but it might reduce the read noise. -
Highlight/Shadow adjustment fault?
Is anybody else seeing strange behaviour with these adjustments? I'm no longer getting the black preview, but I am getting strange vertical steaks on my photos when I use either highlight and/or shadow adjustment. They seem to move around on the image, and increase in number as I move the slider. The steaks make it look almost like it's raining.
This is happening to both RAW and JPG images, from two different cameras, using different storage media. I can almost regain the adjustment by using combinations of exposure and levels adjustments, and the streaks do not appear.
Looking around on the forum I have tried changing the colour profiles, and also creating a new Preview, but to no avail.
System is dual G5 1.8, 10.4.10, Aperture 1.5.4, plenty of RAM and HD space, Radeon 9800XT 256MB card.
Cheers.
Andy.Hi Patrick,
I was going to post more on this, but it was looking like a bit of a monologue. I'm not sure you can upgrade the graphics on the iMac. However, I'm not entirely convinced this was a fault per se'.
Refitting the 5200FX card did fix that problem, and was liveable with, most things did seem to run OK. Aperture ran fine, and is actually very hard to tell if the faster card improved anything at all. If anything, just more RAM in the Nvidia card would probably have done enough.
Anyway, having forked out for the 9800XT card, and having had to order it overseas in order to even get a card at all (there are no AGP cards with ADC available in the UK at all), I decided to bash on with it. I refitted it, and the problem was gone. Having read more articles in other forums, it seems that cooling is a major issue with the Radeon cards. It seems likely that having removed it, it had cooled down enough to clear the fault for a while (I leave my G5 running 24/7 - sleep mode overnight).
I have now rebuilt the card with a Zalman copper heat-sink cooler fitted, and the PCI covers removed. This is also wired to run the fan continuously, rather than off the Radeon controller socket (the 9800XT is temperature controlled). So far this fault has not recurred.
The only thing that seems consistent across all the articles I read, is that the ATI cards seem to suffer with issues far more than Nvidia cards do. It's just a shame I can't find an equivalent Nvidia card, otherwise I'd swap it.
If your iMac is new, then I'd suggest talking to Apple about a possible fault. -
AE project crashes on startup - due to Warp Stabilizer and Highlight/Shadow
I've got a head scratcher here...
Firstly, I have been working on this project file for several days with no problems. Everything was running smoothly... working, tweaking, rendering... all successful.
A couple days after doing a final render, I went to re-open the project and got these two errors, followed by AE crashing:
To the best of my knowledge, I changed nothing on my system.
I've tried removing my 3rd parth plugins (Video Copilot Optical Flares, Element, etc...) but to no avail. The program still crashes when opening this file.
I've since installed the updates to AE CS 6, but still no luck.
Removing Warp Stabilizer and Shadow/Highlight allow me to open this project file (obviously telling me that its missing both).
I've tested out both plug-ins in a different file, and I'm able to open those no problem.
I'm running this on a Mac Book Pro running OSX 10.6.8
Model Name:
MacBook Pro
Model Identifier:
MacBookPro8,2
Processor Name:
Intel Core i7
Processor Speed:
2.2 GHz
Number of Processors:
1
Total Number of Cores:
4
L2 Cache (per Core):
256 KB
L3 Cache:
6 MB
Memory:
8 GB
AMD Radeon HD 6750M:
Chipset Model:
AMD Radeon HD 6750M
Type:
GPU
Bus:
PCIe
PCIe Lane Width:
x8
VRAM (Total):
1024 MB
Vendor:
ATI (0x1002)
Device ID:
0x6741
Revision ID:
0x0000
ROM Revision:
113-C0170L-573
gMux Version:
1.9.23
EFI Driver Version:
01.00.573
Any thoughts???We've isolated the bug that is causing this behavior. It seems to only affect instances of the Shadow/Highlight effect on an adjustment layer over layer(s) with the Warp Stabilizer.
There are a couple of workarounds:
- One is to remove the Shadow/Highlight plug-in from the plug-ins folder and then open the project (and then fix the project to not have this effect on an adjustment layer over a Warp Stabilizer instance).
- Another is to precompose the layer(s) with the Warp Stabilizer effect.
We're working on a fix for this.
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