ASM and CRS in 11gR2, chicken egg dilemma solved ?

Hi it seems, that the chicken egg dilemma in terms of ASM and CRS was solved in 11gR2. To start ASM in RAC, CRS needs to be running first. However in 11gR2 the OCR is stored in ASM. So to start CRS, ASM needs to be available beforehand. The same is with ASM. The ASM spfile is stored in ASM. Thus to start the ASM instance, ASM needs to be available first. I understood the trick used for the voting disks (more or less any other clusterware does). However I could not find any explanation how the above chicken egg dilemma was sorted out in 11gR2. There must be a way to access the ASM in 11gR2 by bypassing the ASM instance. Is this trick also related ti the new kernel modules like ACFS is ? Can anybody provide a little information here ?
Regard, Marc

Thanks for your answer.
Those services are disabled, and I've found this one on MOS FAQs :
With Oracle Clusterware 11g Release 2, the GSD resource will be disabled by default. You only need to enable this resource if you are running Oracle 9i RAC in the cluster.

Similar Messages

Oracle VM Manager 3 as domU (chicken/egg dilemma)

Hi, I would like to run OVM Manager on a domU on the Pool to be managed, apparently it's not possible to add domUs from CLI anymore (virt-install dropped). How do you guys address this issue?.
Regards,
CI.-

Install OVM Manager on a domU running on a separate server - i.e. Oracle VM 2.2.2. Once configured, then "move" it to your OVM3 server and set it up as a domU that's not managed by the manager (put the image files + vm.cfg somewhere, add link in /etc/xen/auto to make it start up automatically when the server boots).
Note this is NOT SUPPORTED and if you choose to do this, you'll be doing it at your own risk.

Pros and Cons of installing CRS, ASM and DB in separate homes

Planning to install 11gR1 RAC a 2 nodes on HPUX IA64 and there are several architecture options:
Option 1: same owner and one single home (home1 = crs asm db)
pros - easier to patch on single home
cons - patch level may be required at crs level but not allowed at db level because of E-Business Suite certification constraints
Option 2: same owner and 2 homes (home1 = crs / home2 = asm db)
pros - one less home to upgrade
cons - ?
Option 3: same owner and 2 homes (home 1 = crs asm / home2 = db)
Is there any reason why Option 3 would be preferable or worse than Option 2?
Option 4: same owner and 3 homes (crs home / asm home / db home)
pros - each home can be on different patch levels
cons - more storage, more maintenance when patching
Any comments?

I've made my decision to use Option 2 and here's why...
Excerpt from Known issues documented in
810663.1 11.1.0.X CRS Bundle Patch Information
CRS Bundle Patch has been renamed as CRS PSU. CRS PSU and Database PSU are two separate patches, i.e. Database PSU does NOT include the CRS PSU.
There should be no conflict or overlap between a CRS PSU and an RDBMS PSU -- both should be applied to the ASM and DATABASE Homes.
Also note that CRS PSU's can be applied to all homes (CRS, ASM and RDBMS). The general recommendation is to apply the bundle patch to all homes unless the homes are on a different patch level. This is because there are clusterware binaries in the database home (e.g.: srvctl).
PSUs for the RDBMS should be applied to the ASM and RDBMS homes.

The Script root.sh problem - ora.asm and ASM and Clusterware Stack failed

Folks,
Hello. I am installing Oracle 11gR2 RAC using 2 VMs (rac1 and rac2) whose OS are Oracle Linux 5.6 in VMPlayer according to the website http://appsdbaworkshop.blogspot.com/2011/10/11gr2-rac-on-linux-56-using-vmware.html
I am installing Grid infrastructure. On step 9 of 10 - execute script /u01/app/grid/root.sh for 2 VMs rac1 and rac2.
After run root.sh in rac1 successfully. I run root.sh in rac2 and get an error as below:
[root@rac2 grid]# ./root.sh
Running Oracle 11g root.sh script...
The following environment variables are set as:
ORACLE_OWNER= ora11g
ORACLE_HOME= /u01/app/grid
Enter the full pathname of the local bin directory: [usr/local/bin]: /usr/local/bin
Copying dbhome to /usr/local/bin ...
Copying oraenv to /usr/local/bin ...
Copying coraenv to /usr/local/bin ...
Creating /etc/oratab file...
Entries will be added to the /etc/oratab file as needed by
Database Configuration Assistant when a database is created
Finished running generic part of root.sh script.
Now product-specific root actions will be performed.
2012-03-05 16:32:52: Parsing the host name
2012-03-05 16:32:52: Checking for super user privileges
2012-03-05 16:32:52: User has super user privileges
Using configuration parameter file: /u01/app/grid/crs/install/crsconfig_params
Creating trace directory
LOCAL ADD MODE
Creating OCR keys for user 'root', privgrp 'root'..
Operation successful.
Adding daemon to inittab
CRS-4123: Oracle High Availability Services has been started.
ohasd is starting
CRS-4402: The CSS daemon was started in exclusive mode but found an active CSS daemon on node rac1, number 1, and is terminating
An active cluster was found during exclusive startup, restarting to join the cluster
CRS-2672: Attempting to start 'ora.mdnsd' on 'rac2'
CRS-2676: Start of 'ora.mdnsd' on 'rac2' succeeded
CRS-2672: Attempting to start 'ora.gipcd' on 'rac2'
CRS-2676: Start of 'ora.gipcd' on 'rac2' succeeded
CRS-2672: Attempting to start 'ora.gpnpd' on 'rac2'
CRS-2676: Start of 'ora.gpnpd' on 'rac2' succeeded
CRS-2672: Attempting to start 'ora.cssdmonitor' on 'rac2'
CRS-2676: Start of 'ora.cssdmonitor' on 'rac2' succeeded
CRS-2672: Attempting to start 'ora.cssd' on 'rac2'
CRS-2672: Attempting to start 'ora.diskmon' on 'rac2'
CRS-2676: Start of 'ora.diskmon' on 'rac2' succeeded
CRS-2676: Start of 'ora.cssd' on 'rac2' succeeded
CRS-2672: Attempting to start 'ora.ctssd' on 'rac2'
Start action for octssd aborted
CRS-2676: Start of 'ora.ctssd' on 'rac2' succeeded
CRS-2672: Attempting to start 'ora.drivers.acfs' on 'rac2'
CRS-2672: Attempting to start 'ora.asm' on 'rac2'
CRS-2676: Start of 'ora.drivers.acfs' on 'rac2' succeeded
CRS-2676: Start of 'ora.asm' on 'rac2' succeeded
CRS-2664: Resource 'ora.ctssd' is already running on 'rac2'
CRS-4000: Command Start failed, or completed with errors.
Command return code of 1 (256) from command: /u01/app/grid/bin/crsctl start resource ora.asm -init
Start of resource "ora.asm -init" failed
Failed to start ASM
Failed to start Oracle Clusterware stack
[root@rac2 grid]#
As we see the output above, at the end of the output
1) Start of resource ora.asm -init failed
2) Failed to start ASM
3) Failed to start Oracle Clusterware stack
The runInstaller is in the first VM rac1. My question is:
Do any folk understand how to solve the script root.sh in rac2 problem ( 3 fails of ora.asm, ASM and Clusterware stack as above) ?
Thanks.

Please check there is no firewall exist:
try this like:
root.sh fails on second node
MOS note:
11gR2 Grid: root.sh Fails to Start the Clusterware on the Second Node Due to Firewall on Private Network [ID 981357.1]
Grid Infrastructure 11.2.0.2 Installation or Upgrade may fail due to Multicasting Requirement [ID 1212703.1] (Most probabily this issue)

ASM vs RAID for 11gR2 RAC Environment

Hi There!
We are planning to install 11GR2 RAC with two nodes Cluster on LINUX in Our Environment.
Operating System: OEL 5.4
In our hardware we got two dell Servers with 16GB RAM on each plus On SAN side we have only 8 disk (173GB) left for RAC Cluster Setup. I am going to create to database (LIVE/UAT) on This Cluster Setup. Currently Our Production DB size is 6GB and I assume for coming 5 year it will not go beyond 100GB And I keep UAT size 15GB fix with No changes.So how you get the best ASM performance by using my all Resources.
My question:
1)     Which is best solution for ASM and RAID in our storage Environment?
2)     How many Disk group I Create for Both Databases (UAT/LIVE)?
3)     How many disks should I allocate in Each Disk Group with which RAID Option or if any suggesting for LUN, How do I create LUNS across the Disk which I got?
4)     I know oracle recommended Two DISK Group DATA&FRA is there any other suggestion for CRS, REDO, and TEMP FILE?
Thanks for your Assintance.
Hemesh.

My first question was : Which RAID Option(0,1,5,0+1) I choose with ASM ?Well, it doesnt matter for ASM. At least in your configuration with 8 disks.
RAID0is not an option - forget about it. RAID1 (or combined with more than two disks and an overlayed RAID0 which makes an RAID 1+0) might be an option for write-intensive databases. RAID5 is more for read-intensive due to the RAID5-write-hole but offers "more" capacity at the cost of slower write speed.
I recommended to stick with RAID1 (thus mirroring two disks) and exporting them to ASM rather than creating one big RAID1+0 over all of your disks and exporting the storage as one big chuck to ASM for manageability. If you want to add storage lateron your perfect in line with Oracles recommendations to have equal size LUNs in ASM with two mirrored disks. If you create on big RAID 1+0 and lateron add two disks you have a LUN of 600 GB size and one of 170 GB size...thats a big mismatch.
But If i create TWO disk group then, is there good practice to offer them to both (UAT/LIVE) databases.?Normally there is a separation between UAT and P on storage and on server level. In your case it might be "ok" to place everything in the same disk group. This mainly depends on which database puts the most load on the disk subsystem.
Ronny Egner
My Blog: http://blog.ronnyegner-consulting.de

How can I remove asm and ocr installation in AIX?

Hi,
I try to install single instance with using ASM in AIX.
But I did not make successfully.
Now I want to remove ASM and OCR installation then
I will plan to make new clear installation.
How can I remove asm and ocr ??
Or How can I control my removing is fully correct ?

1) ASM Instance Clean-Up Procedures
Stop all of the databases that use the ASM instance that is running from the Oracle home that is on the node that you are deleting.
On the node that you are deleting, if this is the Oracle home which from which the ASM instance runs, then remove the ASM configuration by completing the following steps. Run the command srvctl stop asm -n node_name for all of the nodes on which this Oracle home exists. Run the command srvctl remove asm -n node for all nodes on which this Oracle home exists. If there are databases on this node that use ASM, then use DBCA Disk Group Management to create an ASM instance on one of the existing Oracle homes on the node, restart the databases if you stopped them.
If you are using a cluster file system for your ASM Oracle home, then ensure that your local node has the $ORACLE_BASE and $ORACLE_HOME environment variables set correctly. Run the following commands from a node other than the node that you are deleting, where node_number is the node number of the node that you are deleting:
rm -r $ORACLE_BASE/admin/+ASMnode_number
rm -f $ORACLE_HOME/dbs/*ASMnode_number
If you are not using a cluster file system for your ASM Oracle home, then run the rm or delete commands mentioned in the previous step on each node on which the Oracle home exists.
2) Deleting an Oracle Clusterware Home Using OUI in Silent Mode
!!! Oracle recommends that you back up your voting disk and OCR files after you complete the node deletion process.
If you ran the Oracle Interface Configuration Tool (OIFCFG) with the -global flag during the installation, then skip this step. Otherwise, from a node that is going to remain in your cluster, from the CRS_home/bin directory, run the following command where node2 is the name of the node that you are deleting:
./oifcfg delif –node node2
Obtain the remote port number, which you will use in the next step, using the following command from the CRS_home/opmn/conf directory:
cat ons.config
From CRS_home/bin on a node that is going to remain in the cluster, run the Oracle Notification Service Utility (RACGONS) as in the following example where remote_port is the ONS remote port number that you obtained in the previous step and node2 is the name of the node that you are deleting:
./racgons remove_config node2:remote_port
On the node to be deleted, run rootdelete.sh as the root user from the CRS_home/install directory. If you are deleting more than one node, then perform this step on all of the other nodes that you are deleting.
From any node that you are not deleting, run the following command from the CRS_home/install directory as the root user where node2,node2-number represents the node and the node number that you want to delete:
./rootdeletenode.sh node2,node2-number
If necessary, identify the node number using the following command on the node that you are deleting:
CRS_home/bin/olsnodes -n
Perform this step only if your are using a non-shared Oracle home. On the node or nodes to be deleted, run the following command from the CRS_home/oui/bin directory where node_to_be_deleted is the name of the node that you are deleting:
./runInstaller -updateNodeList ORACLE_HOME=CRS_home
"CLUSTER_NODES={node_to_be_deleted}"
CRS=TRUE -local
Deinstall the Oracle Clusterware home from the node that you are deleting using OUI as follows by running the following command from the Oracle_home/oui/bin directory, where CRS_home is the name defined for the Oracle Clusterware home:
./runInstaller -deinstall –silent "REMOVE_HOMES={CRS_home}"
Perform step 9 from the previous section about using OUI interactively under the heading "Deleting an Oracle Clusterware Home Using OUI in Interactive Mode".

ASM and database instance sharing same home. Can i split them?

Hi I am running on 10.2.0.1.0 in a 2 server RAC cluster on linux. ASM and db instance are sharing the same home.
I now need to upgrade my ASM instance and clusterware to 11g, but just want to keep my db at 10g because of some compatability issues ( i will probably still need to upgrade the db to 10.2.0.5.0).
Is there any way i can split my Oracle Home so that i now can upgrade my ASM home and keep my prod DB instance still at 10g?
Thanks again. John
Edited by: user11970859 on Jun 6, 2011 1:49 AM

Hi,
Is there any way i can split my Oracle Home so that i now can upgrade my ASM home and keep my prod DB instance still at 10g?Yes... no problem.
See this notes on MOS:
10g to 11g R1
*How To Upgrade ASM from 10.2 to 11.1 (RAC)? [ID 736127.1]*
or to 11g R2
*ASM 11gR2: How To Upgrade An ASM Instance To Release 11gR2 (11.2.0.1.0)? [ID 950200.1]*
Regards,
Levi Pereira

About ASM and SAN...

Hello Guys,
I have to implement 3 nodes RAC 10gR2 ob centOS4 operating system. I have study so many documents about rac instaltion and configurations. I have learn how to set the network requirements with private, public and virtual IPs and all other stuff. I have learn installtion of clusterware and database with cluster enable functionality.
BUT the storage options are still not clear to me. We have purchases SAN and we are planning to implement ASM for the storage. Now i want to know:
How many disk and disk partitions 3 node structure will require on SAN?
How ASM will access SAN, or you can say OS will access this shared storage?
Voting disk and OCR can not be store on sharted storage and need to be store on raw devices... what these raw device can be? How it can be access by all nodes?
Above three questions are disturbing me a lot. If they are clear to me the whole storage concept will be clear and i can implement RAC.
Please help me by answering the above 3 questions. I will be vert greatful to you.
Regards,
Imran

How many disk and disk partitions 3 node structure will require on SAN?
There's no real answer to that! With Oracle generally, RAC or no RAC, the answer to how many disks you should have is "as many as possible". Partitioning is really up to you, too, depending on what you find easiest to manage. If you have a single SAN array, for example, comprised of 15 disks that you choose to partition into three or four logical volumes so that you can call one 'data', one 'redo', one 'OS', and one 'other' -that's entirely up to you, since Oracle could care less how you partition, what you call them or how many of them there are. Moreover, everything on every partition is being striped across those 15 disks anyway, so who cares?
I think, however, you might be thinking of the RAC-specific issues of the voting disk and the Oracle Cluster Registry. If you were using a cluster file system, they could be just two files on the file system, about 120M in size between them. Since you are going to use ASM and these two elements can't be stored inside an ASM array, you'll have to create two raw partitions for this purpose. The rest you then chop up for ASM's use.
It is NOT true, incidentally, that "Voting disk and OCR can not be store on sharted storage". By definition, the voting disk and OCR must be on shared storage! Indeed, raw partitions, ASM arrays and cluster file systems are ALL shared storage technologies. It just so happens that those two files can't use ASM... but raw or cfs are fine.
A raw partition is not, of course, intrinsically 'shared storage'... but if it's a raw partition on your SAN, to which all three of your nodes are physically attached, then it is shareable. It's shareable simply because three nodes can see it. And because there's no file system there with exclusive and blocking file locks, what one node does to a raw partition doesn't stop another node accessing it simultaneously (which is the definition of shared storage, of course).
How will ASM access SAN? By you partitioning the SAN into a number of logical volumes, each one of which will be kept raw, and you then declaring each such volume as a candidate disk. You'll wrap all candidate disks up into an ASM disk group... and then Oracle will write to that disk group and hence through to the underlying logical volumes. Which comes back to the original question: how many logical volumes should you create out of, say, a 15 disk LUN on a SAN?
Depends, as I said, on a lot of things, but for example RAID5 runs best when there are either 5 or 9 disks in the array (or did when last I looked at an EMC Clariion SAN!). So if your underlying RAID technology was going to be RAID5, you might well create 3 5-disk logical volumes on the one LUN. To let ASM use all 15 disks, you'd then create a 3-disk diskgroup (where 1 ASM disk = 1 SAN logical volume). On the other hand, you might want to keep some disks back for future storage, in which case a 1-disk ASM diskgroup representing a single 9-disk logical volume might be the go, with the remaining 6 disks on the LUN available for future expansion.
It's a complicated topic, unfortunately. You're dealing with physical storage which is already abstracted into logical volumes and then abstracted even further by wrapping those logical volumes up into ASM disk groups. You balance performance, expandability, management convenience, your SAN vendor's optimisation tricks and so on... and hopefully come out with something that works for you!

Migrating Non ASM, Non RMAN to New Server with ASM and RMAN - Possible?

We currently have a database ( Oracle 10g R1 ) on a Sun Solaris server that is NOT using ASM or RMAN. The database is about 300GB. We are getting a new server and we want to install Oracle 10g R2 with ASM and RMAN and migrate the database.
I have seen the documentation on migrating non ASM to an ASM server but the methods all use RMAN. Is it possible to migrate to an ASM database without using RMAN? Would datapump import/export work if I created a new database on the new server with all the same tablespaces? Or, do I have to bite the bullet, install RMAN on the old server and do the backup?
Thanks.

If you're not using RMAN that doesn't mean you can't use it to perform a single backup, rman is contained in every oracle RDBMS installation version 10G or higher.
this is only a sample of how to do it
RMAN> CONFIGURE CHANNEL DEVICE TYPE DISK FORMAT '<file_system_path>/%U.DBF';
--first we allocate the channel default channel.
RMAN>RUN
ALLOCATE CHANNEL DEFAULTCHANNEL TYPE DISK;
SHUTDOWN IMMEDIATE;
STARTUP MOUNT;
BACKUP DATABASE;
SHUTDOWN
}then once you have it, you can do what you want.
It should also be possible to manually restore the database from the original datafiles but it's better to follow the solution involving RMAN.
Bye Alessandro

Cloning a database on ASM and rawdevices.

Hi list,
I am in the process to "test" a clone procedure in a database which is using ASM and "rawdevices".
Is there any special Note that I can follow to accomplish this process?
How can I copy a raw device from one server to another one?
Any advice will be really appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Kind regards,
Francisco Mtz.

Hello Martin,
Yes you can clone ASM database from one server to another server. Here is the brief overview of how i was able to do in the same RH Linux 4 and 10g R2
1) source - take a RMAN backup (ASM databases can be backed up using RMAN only
2) target -
a) create a ASM instance on the target
b) let your unix SA create a raw device disk with the same capacity of the source
c) create a new diskgroup that includes this new raw device disk using $ORACLE_HOME/bin/dbca of the target's ASM instance (it will be automatically mounted)
d) Now use RMAN DUPLICATE database option to create a duplicate database (clone) of the source database.

RAC with ASM and without ASM

Hi all,
we planing to install RAC 11g instance active/active . and we are using SAN storage RAID 10.
I know ASM is nice feature . but it need more maintenance in future . This is what I see
it from Manual and training . for patching ..... because it maintain as instance.
why I do need ASM since I have SAN and I can control mirroring ...etc
I need sold answer here ?? why I need to use this feature that already can be covered using another facility like SAN.
Best Regards,

What I have found in a RAC world is there is maintenance no matter which way you go, A cluster file system will require upgrades, patches, etc. RAW volumes will require extra effort in allocation, etc. as well as increase the number of files in the database. ASM requires additional instance on each node to maintain which is quite simple and rolling patches in ASM is becoming reality slowly. I have found that removing the management of RAW volumes is more trouble then the maintenance of the ASM instances and the added benefits of ASM outweigh the maintenance for sure. I found that the cluster file system mainteance is pretty well a wash.
As for ASM being widely used, the most recent RAC clusters (last 3) I have built have all been ASM....... 1 on HPUX and 2 on Linux (Red Hat and Oracle Enterprise Linux) and future clusters coming up that I know of are all going to be ASM as well. While it may be true that a lot of existing RAC environments have not yet gone to ASM almost all new RAC environments are. It is certainly taking hold. If you look at the effort on a large database to move to ASM from RAW volumes or cluster file system it can appear to be a lot of work and that is true, but in the long run my experience with ASM has been positive therefore I would not hesitate to recommend new RAC clusters be built with ASM and existing clusters should have a migration plan in place. As with some cluster file systems like veritas, GPFS, etc. There is addtional cost involved where ASM does not have the additional cost so moving existing clusters can save $$........ RAM volumne management may not fall on the DBA but someone has to manage all those volumnes at a SAN level and that is additional management just may not really be with the DBA.
Just my additional 2 cents worth.
Hope this helps.

ASM and Cold backup

Is there any way to coldbackup a database that is using ASM?
My development server has a database of 500GB in size. To move this to the production server I used to do cold backups but unable to do it with ASM.
I was planning to use EXPORT utility but I read a few articles saying the export files should be more than a few GB.
Has anyone got any ideas how to move large database that is using ASM from dev to prod?
Thanks

RMAN is the only option to take backups of databases using on ASM and you can use RMAN to take the cold backup of your database. First shutdown the database cleanly and then mount it and issue "backup database" at rman prompt to the cold backup. Read oracle doc for more information on RMAN setup.
Daljit Singh

ASM and IBM's SVC (SAN Volume Controller)

Has anyone used ASM on SVC?
Can anyone point me in the direction of any documentation regarding ASM and SVC.
Any assistance greatly appreciated.
Gavin Rayner

Hi,
I am also looking at recommendations for using IBM's SVC with AIX. (We are not using ASM in this instance).
Can anyone post their experiences, tips and lessons learnt using this disk architecture?
Cheers.

ASM and DB on different machine

Hi,
Have one question, we are given 2 VM's on which ASM and Oracle DB is installed. We are asked to start both machine in sequence, after starting Machine-1 we need to start Machine-2 then only DB (orcl) on Machine-2 can be opened.
If we miss sequence it gives does not come up and gives error like:
SQL> startup;
ORA-01078: failure in processing system parameters
ORA-01565: error in identifying file '+DATA/orcl/spfileorcl.ora'
ORA-17503: ksfdopn:2 Failed to open file +DATA/orcl/spfileorcl.ora
ORA-29701: unable to connect to Cluster Synchronization Service
The initorcl.ora on Machine-2 has following entry:
SPFILE='+DATA/orcl/spfileorcl.ora'
Can someone please suggest how this two machines would be configured, what entries on Machine-2 are pointing to ASM instance on Machine-1.
Please suggest..
Thanks!

bLaK wrote:
Thanks for the reply HTH!
I am new to this and learning ASM. What i wanted to know is how and what setting are done in Machine-2 that it refers to ASM instance on Machine-1.
Where can I see that?
Regards!What is your database & ASM version?
Are you using Grid?
My first post explanation is specific to any ASM & RDBMS instance on server.
Describe more how these two servers configured.
you can check by
$crsctl check cssd
Or let's say how can we tell CSS service where is ASM instance located..It will be handled by CSSD process.
read this manual http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/database/asm-10gr2-bestpractices.pdf
Since CSS provides cluster management and node monitor management, it inherently monitors ASM and
its shared storage components (disks and diskgroups). Upon startup, ASM will register itself and all
diskgroups it has mounted, with CSS. This allows CSS across all RAC nodes to keep diskgroup metadata
in-sync. Any new diskgroups that are created are also dynamically registered and broadcasted to other
nodes in the cluster.
As with the database, internode communication is used to synchronize activities in ASM instances. CSS is
used to heartbeat the health of the ASM instances. ASM internode messages are initiated by structural
changes that require synchronization; e.g. adding a disk. Thus, ASM uses the same integrated lock
management infrastructure that is used by the database for efficient synchronization.

ASM and Third party Cluster Software

What are the various components of ASM? What is the intergration/interoperability between ASM and third party cluster software?
Please copy me in your response [email protected]
Cheers,
Sandeep

unfortunately this is the forum pointed to by the link on the dba resource page
http://www.oracle.com/technology/dba/index.html
the link being
http://forums.oracle.com/forums/forum.jsp?forum=18
So an easy mistake to make
Dominic

ASM and CRS in 11gR2, chicken egg dilemma solved ?

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