Battery Degrading

My MBP is now around 1 year and a half old. The battery that came with it degraded surprisingly fast. so that i couldn't get more than an hour if I was lucky. I started noticing the degradation around 5 months ago I think, maybe 6. I waited to get a battery because I never absolutely had to run on battery. I found out later that this degradation was probably because I wasn't cycling the battery every month or so like I'm apparently supposed to. I finally bought a new battery and go it about a week ago. It's brand new (not used). When I got it CoconutBattery told me it was at 99% of it's maximum possible 5600 mAh Which I was ok with. but now it's already down to 96% after just a week. I haven't done a cycle as it's only been a week. Should it degrade like that? I'm now having trouble getting it over 4 hours even with good battery settings.

I'm having a battery degrading problem as well. After buying a new MacBook Pro last week, when I first charged it up it said it had over 5 hours of batter time. I was thrilled!
Since then i have made sure to discharge it almost all the way before charging it again. Now, a week later, after a complete charge it shows less than 2 hours of battery time. Totally unacceptable.
In a post from two years ago, a solved answer to this post said:
"Re: please look at my battery info and tell me if its depleted
Posted: Jun 29, 2008 6:17 PM in response to: rocklebee
Solved
Yes, this battery is shot.
The full charge capacity should be around 5,500 or so. Yours is 693."
My current charge capacity is listed at 4532. Why has it degraded so much so quickly? A new batter should last more than 2 hours. Do I need to contact Apple Care?
AG

Similar Messages

MacBook Pro 13 Early 2011 Battery Degradation to Not Detected, User Replaced New Battery also Not Detected, Please Help!

I have a MBP early 2011 13 inch and do not have Apple Care. After I installed Mountain Lion I noticed the battery health was dropping pretty rapidly, with a service battery warning. I tried resetting the SMC and PRAM and even a clean install. I took it into an Apple store and they said I should have cycled it more, but I could still use it. The health dropped and dropped until a battery would not even be detected. Because Apple would not replace it for me for free and I didn't want to pay for them to do so, I bought my own battery. Once I replaced the battery with the new one, it still says there is no battery connected.
When I detach the battery and then attach it again, the battery indicator lights on the side show 4 dots. When I plugged in the MagSafe connector, the fifth light started blinking (I thought it was charging) and then it went back to all of them blinking indicating no battery detected. The computer also automatically turned on when I connected the MagSafe.
I have tired multiple times to reset PRAM and SMC even after installing the new battery to no avail. I can use the machine with the MagSafe connected, but as soon as the cord is unplugged or bumped, it goes into the emergency sleep mode.
Any thoughts on what might be ailing this not yet two year old machine? My first Mac lasted 7 years before any logic board fail so I hope that is not it. Anything I should try that I haven't yet? Any ideas on what this might cost me through Apple?
Thanks!

Why don't you look through this to insure you did everything correctly:
http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Installing+MacBook+Pro+13-Inch+Unibody+Early+2011+Ba ttery+Replacement/5116/1
Also, where did you get this battery?

Battery degradation

I'm on my second MBP battery in a year. The first fell to 2600 or so mA capacity in about 8 months. I'm now at about 5 months (117 cycles) on my second, and it's dropped from 5600 or so (when new) to 4900. I just recalibrated and it dropped about another 100. Is this normal? Or do I have another problem batter? Power manager problem? Suggestions?

Have you done the battery update?

Battery life degraded.

Hi guys, after 84 cycles i'm down to around 4600 if i'm lucky,
Now apple state that you shouldn't reach 80% within 300 cycles.
I did calculations and that would be ~4160 so apple said it was a perculiar issue and would not do a swap for the battery, but said i should take it to the local applecenter to be looked at.
By the sounds of it my chances are pretty low on getting the battery replaced right? i understand batteries are a disposable consumable that deteriorate but i bought this thing less than 6 months ago.

Yeah, that sounds like almost 80% and apple will have it replaced in that case
They said they should be replacing mine, i just have to take it in to the repair center because they want to see proof.
Apparently they haven't really heard of this issue much
While Battery Degradation is a normal thing, this is really only an 8% drop in capacity which ends up as about half an hour of normal load (~1000mah)
So i might just leave it and see how it goes, but apple agree that it shouldn't drop that much until atleast 100 cycles.

What is the recommended way of preserving battery life?

I'm a bit confused. How do I preserve the battery life for an old (2008-ish) model of a white MacBook?
Some part of the internet says that:
Letting the MacBook plugged in to a power outlet even if the battery is full will result in the battery degrading its life (aka do not overcharge the battery because it's bad).
Another part of the internet says:
Removing the MacBook's power adapter when the battery is full will result in the battery degrading its life because it will get used more. (aka the battery will be overused because of not running on power adapter which is bad)
So can anyone clear this up for me? I's really confusing and I need a definite answer, thanks!

Apple Portables: Tips for maximizing your battery charge
http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html
Stefan

My battery needs service as it is not working for long. Apple claims it is not a defective battery and that it is my fault since I had the computer for 2 1/2 years and have only run the battery down to empty 100 times. It is my fault because I did no

Con't
Apple claims that because I did not drain my battery frequently and kept it plugged in for extended periods of time, that it is my fault the battery is failing. I disagree because I was not ever told to consistently drain my battery before recharging or not to keep it on and plugs in for extended periods of time. I do keep my desktop computer on most of the time and that is why I have kept my Macbook air on for extended time periods. I feel that Applecare should cover this battey issue and not charge me for replacing the battey. I feel I should have been told to not keep my computer consistently running on with poweror the battery will fail. Has anyone had this problem? Apple should replace my battery under Apple care as my battery does not keep a charge anymore.
I'll wait to hear.

You said---Apple claims that because I did not drain my battery frequently
You said--- I was not ever told to consistently drain my battery before recharging
You should never do that on purpose, whoever told you that had it wrong or you misunderstood something
Sure you dont have that backwards? thats exactly what you DONT want to do.
Did you often drain the battery very low? that would explain a lot.
Someone might have been misinformed about "battery calibration" regarding much older Macs with removable batteries (see bottom)
You said-----I do keep my desktop computer on most of the time and that is why I have kept my Macbook air on for extended time periods.
thats a problem there, youre not supposed to do that.
Keeping batteries connected to a charger ensures that periodic "top-ups" do very minor but continuous damage to individual cells, hence Apples recommendation above:   “Apple does not recommend leaving your portable plugged in all the time”, …this is because “Li-ion degrades fastest at high state-of-charge”.
                    This is also the same reason new Apple notebooks are packaged with 50% charges and not 100%.
http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html
"Apple does not recommend leaving your portable plugged in all the time."
*If you don’t plan on using it for a few hours, turn it OFF (plugged in or otherwise) ..*You don’t want your Macbook both always plugged in AND in sleep mode       (When portable devices are charging and in the on or sleep position, the current that is drawn through the device is called the parasitic load and will alter the dynamics of charge cycle. Battery manufacturers advise against parasitic loading because it induces mini-cycles.)
Keep it plugged in when near a socket so you keep the charging cycles down on your LiPo (lithium polymer) cells / battery, but not plugged in all the time. When not being used for several hours, turn it off.
And best "tip" is if its near a socket,...plug it in as long as you can (especially at home) since cycle count on the battery are the "miles that wear out the tires (battery)", however again, not plugged in all or most of the time.
General rule to remember of Lithium batteries is:
Never drain them LOW & dont always/often store them HIGH
While cycle count is commonly seen to be the “miles” on your Lithium Ion pack cell in your Macbook, which they are, this distinction is not a fine line at all, and it is a big misconception to “count charge cycles”
*A person who has, for example, 300 charge cycles on their battery and is recharging at say 50-60% remaining of a 100% charge has better battery usage and care than another person who has 300 charge cycles at say 15% remaining on a 100% charge.
DoD (depth of discharge) is far more important on the wear and tear on your Macbook battery than any mere charge cycle count. *There is no set “mile” or wear from a charge cycle in general OR in specific.    As such, contrary to popular conception, counting cycles is not conclusive whatsoever, rather the amount of deep DoD on an averaged scale of its use and charging conditions.
                          (as a very rough analogy would be 20,000 hard miles put on a car vs. 80,000 good miles being something similar)
*Contrary to some myths out there, there is protection circuitry in your Macbook and therefore you cannot overcharge it when plugged in and already fully charged
LiPo (lithium polymer, same as in your Macbook) batteries do not need conditioning. However...
A lot of battery experts call the use of Lithium cells the "80% Rule" ...meaning use 80% of the charge or so, then recharge them for longer overall life.
Never let your Macbook go into shutdown and safe mode from loss of power, you can corrupt files that way, and the batteries do not like it.
The only quantified abuse seen to Lithium cells are instances when often the cells are repeatedly drained very low…. key word being "often"
Contrary to what some might say, Lithium batteries have an "ideal" break in period. First ten cycles or so, don't discharge down past 40% of the battery's capacity. Same way you don’t take a new car out and speed and rev the engine hard first 100 or so miles.
Proper treatment is still important. Just because LiPo batteries don’t need conditioning in general, does NOT mean they dont have an ideal use / recharge environment. Anything can be abused even if it doesn’t need conditioning.
From Apple on batteries:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1446
http://www.apple.com/batteries/
Storing your MacBook
If you are going to store your MacBook away for an extended period of time, keep it in a cool location (room temperature roughly 22° C or about 72° F). Make certain you have at least a 50% charge on the internal battery of your Macbook if you plan on storing it away for a few months; recharge your battery to 50% or so every six months roughly if being stored away. If you live in a humid environment, keep your Macbook stored in its zippered case to prevent infiltration of humidity on the internals of your Macbook which could lead to corrosion.
Considerations:
Your battery is subject to chemical aging even if not in use. A Lithium battery is aging as soon as its made, regardless.
In a perfect (although impractical) situation, your lithium battery is best idealized swinging back and forth between 20 and 85% SOC (state of charge) roughly.
Further still how you discharge the battery is far more important than how it is either charged or stored short term, and more important long term that cycle counts.
Ultimately counting charge cycles is of little importance. Abuse in discharging (foremost), charging, and storing the battery and how it affects battery chemistry is important and not the ‘odometer’ reading, or cycle counts on the battery.
Everything boils down to battery chemistry long term, and not an arbitrary number, or cycle count.
Keep your macbook plugged in when near a socket since in the near end of long-term life, this is beneficial to the battery.
Peace
Battery calibration, battery memory, battery overcharging, battery training, …all these concepts are mostly holdovers from much older battery technology, and on older Apple portable Macbooks ranging from early nicads, NiMh and otherwise; and these practices do not apply to your lithium battery and its smart controllers.
Calibrating the battery on older Apple portable Macbooks with removable batteries.
http://support.apple.com/kb/PH14087
There is no calibration of current Apple portable Macbooks with built-in batteries.
http://support.apple.com/ht1490
There is no battery calibration with current Apple portable Macbooks with built-in batteries. Lithium batteries have essentially a 0-‘memory’, and all such calibration involve the estimations fed to the system controller on the SOC (state of charge) of the battery over long periods of time as the battery degrades. The software based battery controller knows the battery's characteristics, or SOC and adjusts itself. This is why there is both no need and purpose to periodically deeply drain your macbook battery, since it doesn’t affect the characteristics of the battery, and further still deep discharges are something you should not do on purpose to any lithium battery.

I just recalibrated my battery and now cannot remove anything from my dock. Don't know if this has anything to do with it or not. I have moved it up the screen and held it and still returns to the dock. What now?

I do not know if this has anything to do with my problem or not. I just recalibrated my battery and now cannot remove anything from the dock. I have moved it half way up and held it and it just goes back to the dock. Will not let me even put it in the trash. I am new to the macbook so would you please help me?

There is NO calibration on a modern macbook
Battery calibration, battery memory, battery overcharging, battery training, …all these concepts are mostly holdovers from much older battery technology, and on older Apple portable Macbooks ranging from early nicads, NiMh and otherwise; and these practices do not apply to your lithium battery and its smart controllers.
Current Apple portable computer batteries are pre-calibrated and are not to be calibrated
http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1490
There is no battery calibration with current Apple portable Macbooks with built-in batteries. Lithium batteries have essentially a 0-‘memory’, and all such calibration involve the estimations fed to the system controller on the SOC (state of charge) of the battery over long periods of time as the battery degrades. The software based battery controller knows the battery's characteristics, or SOC and adjusts itself. This is why there is both no need and purpose to periodically deeply drain your macbook battery, since it doesn’t affect the characteristics of the battery, and further still deep discharges are something you should not do on purpose to any lithium battery.

How to INCREASE Battery Capacity

Just drop the advertising - I know that battery capacity varies, and that the capacity of the phone battery - regardless of models, will degrade as the phone is used.
I contest the "specialists" to provide some straight simple guidelines to how one can treat a battery to increase the capacity.
That the layers gets closer and short-curcuits is a known reason. So, exposure to heat will make the substance that keep the layers apart into gas that escapes the battery. Now how can such a battery be fixed? In old days with NiCd we could freeze the battery to -36C, that would make the iodine to solid. if iodine is still used, this will still work. Other semiconductors needed more than -100C to regain state - but with access to liquid Nitrogen, that was fully possible. Maybe Ni is not so common, but freon is, and LPG (Butane/Propane liquified). A home freezer can at times go as low as -38C.
So, can charging in heat / cold change the capacity of the battery?
Other: If I completely drain the battery between every charge - will that improve it?
If I start to recharge it when it is 80% of capacity, and disconnect immediately and use everything, Bluetooth, WLAN - to drain it to 80% and the recharge - can I restore the good old capacity?
if the battery degrades to 10% of capacity, is it possible to restore it? How?
Don't change anything that works.

That, and I've been reading to not constantly charge it, or leave it in at 100%. It can be charged too much from what I've seen. I've had mine since 2006 almost 2 years, and till recently left it charging all the time. Not sure that's been a good idea. This is Battery University website information...
gure 1: Permanent capacity loss of lithium-ion as a function of temperature and charge level.
High charge levels and elevated temperatures hasten permanent capacity loss. Improvements in chemistry have increased the storage performance of lithium-ion batteries.
The mentioning of limited service life on lithium-ion has caused concern in the battery industry and I will need to add some clarifications. Let me explain:
If someone asks how long we humans live, we would soon find out that the longevity varies according to life style and living conditions that exist in different countries. Similar conditions exist with the batteries, lithium-ion in particular. Since BatteryUniversity bases its information on the feedback from users as opposed to scientific information derived from a research lab, longevity results may differ from manufacturer' specifications. Let's briefly look at the various living conditions of the lithium-ion battery.
The worst condition is keeping a fully charged battery at elevated temperatures, which is the case with running laptop batteries. If used on main power, the battery inside a laptop will only last for 12-18 months. I must hasten to explain that the pack does not die suddenly but begins with reduced run-times.
The voltage level to which the cells are charged also plays an important role to longevity. For safety reasons, most lithium-ion cannot exceed 4.20 volts per cell. While a higher voltage boosts capacity, the disadvantage is lower cycle life. Figure 2 shows the cycle life as a function of charge voltage.

MBP Battery Maintenance Using Cinema Display

When using MBP in clamshell mode I read many report no easy way to discharge the battery monthly to preserve it as recommded.
I find without the power supply connected I use my 2011 MBP & Cinema Display in mirror mode with the MBP cover ajar. If wanted the MBP screen brightness can be turned down also.
Using the MBP & Cinema Display in mirror mode without the power supply connected will run down the battery in not so many hours.

Pulgee wrote:
When using MBP in clamshell mode I read many report no easy way to discharge the battery monthly to preserve it as recommded.
NO, youre NOT supposed to do that!
There is no calibration of current Apple portable Macbooks with built-in batteries.
http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1490
There is no battery calibration with current Apple portable Macbooks with built-in batteries. Lithium batteries have essentially a 0-‘memory’, and all such calibration involve the estimations fed to the system controller on the SOC (state of charge) of the battery over long periods of time as the battery degrades. The software based battery controller knows the battery's characteristics, or SOC and adjusts itself. This is why there is both no need and purpose to periodically deeply drain your macbook battery, since it doesn’t affect the characteristics of the battery, and further still deep discharges are something you should not do on purpose to any lithium battery.
Portables with built-in batteries
Current Apple portable computer batteries are pre-calibrated and do not require the calibration procedure
MacBook (13-inch, Late 2009) and later
General consideration of your MacBook battery
Contrary to popular myths about notebook batteries, there is protection circuitry in your Macbook and therefore you cannot ‘overcharge’ your notebook when plugged in and already fully charged.
However if you do not plan on using your notebook for several hours, turn it off (plugged in or otherwise), since you do not want your Macbook ‘both always plugged in and in sleep mode’.
A lot of battery experts call the use of Lithium-Ion cells the "80% Rule", meaning use 80% of the full charge or so, then recharge them for longer overall life. The main quantified damage done in the use of Lithium Ion batteries are instances where the internal notebook battery is “often drained very low”, this is bad general use of your notebook battery.
All batteries in any device are a consumable meant to be replaced eventually after much time, even under perfect use conditions.
If the massive amount of data that exists on lithium batteries were to be condensed into a simplex, helpful, and memorable bit of information it would be:
1. While realistically a bit impractical during normal everyday use, a lithium battery's longevity and its chemistry's health is most happy swinging back and forth between 20% and 85% charge roughly.
2. Do not purposefully drain your battery very low (10% and less), and do not keep them charged often or always high (100%).
3. Lithium batteries do not like the following:
A: Deep discharges, as meaning roughly 10% or less. Avoid this in all instances if you can. This is hard on your battery.
B: Rapid discharges as referring to energy intensive gaming on battery on a frequent basis (in which case while gaming, if possible, do same on power rather than battery).
C: Constant inflation, as meaning always or most often on charge, and certainly not both in sleep mode and on charge always or often.
From Apple on batteries:
http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1446
"Apple does not recommend leaving your portable plugged in all the time."

Macbook 13" Pro Retina turns off at 33% battery capacity

Today I found that my Macbook 13" pro Retina shut down suddenly at 33% battery capacity. And also, I checked the battery health, which was at 61% . The last time I checked, it was at about 98%. The current usage when fully charged and unplugged is 2h30.
Here's the screenshot:
I tried the SCM and PRAM,NVRAM reset but nothing happened. As I just purchased this Macbook in January, I dont think that the battery "degrades" this fast.
Please tell me how to fix it or to improve the current max capacity.
Thank you all !

Take it in for repair/replacement. The device has a one year warranty.
Barry

IOS 6.0.2 battery problems

Phone battery degraded after 3 weeks usage only getting max usage is 3hours standby.

upgraded to 6.0.2 two weeks ago. have no wi-fi and my battery is dying much faster than 6.0.1. Tried resetting all settings, no solution. Using with 3G and wi-fi disabled in order for the battery to last one full day.
why am I using iPhone 5 then, if there is no wi-fi nor 3G? checking for a software update everyday with 3 hour intervals...
need a fix to this ASAP!!!

Whats better for my mbp 2013 retina in the long run? Keep it plugged in as much as possible or letting the battery hit 10% and then recharge it?

Whats better for my mbp 2013 retina in the long run? Keep it plugged in as much as possible or letting the battery hit 10% and then recharge it?

Odd you ask that, since both are HORRIBLE,   ... especially often draining your battery low.
General consideration of your MacBook battery
Contrary to popular myths about notebook batteries, there is protection circuitry in your Macbook and therefore you cannot ‘overcharge’ your notebook when plugged in and already fully charged.
However if you do not plan on using your notebook for several hours, turn it off (plugged in or otherwise), since you do not want your Macbook ‘both always plugged in and in sleep mode’.
A lot of battery experts call the use of Lithium-Ion cells the "80% Rule", meaning use 80% of the full charge or so, then recharge them for longer overall life. The only quantified damage done in the use of Lithium Ion batteries are instances where the internal notebook battery is “often drained very low”, this is bad general use of your notebook battery.
A person who has, for example, 300 charge cycles on their battery and is recharging at say 40% remaining of a 100% charge has a better battery condition state than, say, another person who has 300 charge cycles on their battery and is recharging at say 10-15% remaining on a 100% charge. DoD (depth of discharge) is much more important on the wear and tear on your Macbook’s battery than the count of charge cycles. There is no set “mile” or wear from a charge cycle in specific. Frequent high depth of discharge rates (draining the battery very low) on a Lithium battery will hasten the lowering of maximum battery capacity.
All batteries in any device are a consumable meant to be replaced eventually after much time, even under perfect use conditions.
If the massive amount of data that exists on lithium batteries were to be condensed into a simplex, helpful, and memorable bit of information it would be:
1. While realistically a bit impractical during normal everyday use, a lithium battery's longevity and its chemistry's health is most happy swinging back and forth between 20% and 85% charge roughly.
2. Do not purposefully drain your battery very low (10% and less), and do not keep them charged often or always high (100%).
3. Lithium batteries do not like the following:
A: Deep discharges, as meaning roughly 10% or less on a frequent basis.
B: Rapid discharges as referring to energy intensive gaming on battery on a frequent basis (in which case while gaming, if possible, do same on power rather than battery). This is a minor consideration.
C: Constant inflation, as meaning always or most often on charge, and certainly not both in sleep mode and on charge always or often.
From Apple on batteries:
http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1446
"Apple does not recommend leaving your portable plugged in all the time."
Keep it plugged in when near a socket so you keep the charging cycles down on your LiPo (lithium polymer) cells / battery, but not plugged in all the time. When not being used for several hours, turn it off.
DoD (depth of discharge) is far more important on the wear and tear on your Macbook battery than any mere charge cycle count. *There is no set “mile” or wear from a charge cycle in general OR in specific.    As such, contrary to popular conception, counting cycles is not conclusive whatsoever, rather the amount of deep DoD on an averaged scale of its use and charging conditions.
                          (as a very rough analogy would be 20,000 hard miles put on a car vs. 80,000 good miles being something similar)
*Contrary to some myths out there, there is protection circuitry in your Macbook and therefore you cannot overcharge it when plugged in and already fully charged
*However if you don’t plan on using it for a few hours, turn it OFF (plugged in or otherwise) ..*You don’t want your Macbook both always plugged in AND in sleep mode       (When portable devices are charging and in the on or sleep position, the current that is drawn through the device is called the parasitic load and will alter the dynamics of charge cycle. Battery manufacturers advise against parasitic loading because it induces mini-cycles.)
Keeping batteries connected to a charger ensures that periodic "top-ups" do very minor but continuous damage to individual cells, hence Apples recommendation above:   “Apple does not recommend leaving your portable plugged in all the time”, …this is because “Li-ion degrades fastest at high state-of-charge”.
                    This is also the same reason new Apple notebooks are packaged with 50% charges and not 100%.
Contrary to what some might say, Lithium batteries have an "ideal" break in period. First ten cycles or so, don't discharge down past 40% of the battery's capacity. Same way you don’t take a new car out and speed and rev the engine hard first 100 or so miles.
Proper treatment is still important. Just because LiPo batteries don’t need conditioning in general, does NOT mean they dont have an ideal use / recharge environment. Anything can be abused even if it doesn’t need conditioning.
Storing your MacBook
If you are going to store your MacBook away for an extended period of time, keep it in a cool location (room temperature roughly 22° C or about 72° F). Make certain you have at least a 50% charge on the internal battery of your Macbook if you plan on storing it away for a few months; recharge your battery to 50% or so every six months roughly if being stored away. If you live in a humid environment, keep your Macbook stored in its zippered case to prevent infiltration of humidity on the internals of your Macbook which could lead to corrosion.
Considerations:
Your battery is subject to chemical aging even if not in use. A Lithium battery is aging as soon as its made, regardless.
In a perfect (although impractical) situation, your lithium battery is best idealized swinging back and forth between 20 and 85% SOC (state of charge) roughly.
Further still how you discharge the battery is far more important than how it is either charged or stored short term, and more important long term that cycle counts.
Ultimately counting charge cycles is of little importance. Abuse in discharging (foremost), charging, and storing the battery and how it affects battery chemistry is important and not the ‘odometer’ reading, or cycle counts on the battery.
Everything boils down to battery chemistry long term, and not an arbitrary number, or cycle count.
Keep your macbook plugged in when near a socket since in the near end of long-term life, this is beneficial to the battery.
In a lithium battery, deep discharges alter the chemistry of the anode to take up lithium ions and slowly damages the batteries capacity for the cathode to transport lithium ions to the anode when charging, thereby reducing max charge levels in mAh. In short, radical swings of power to lithium cells disrupts the chemical ecosystem of the battery to hold charges correctly which likewise impedes the perfect transfer of lithium ions both in charging and discharging. In charging your lithium battery, lithium ions are “pushed uphill” (hard) to the anode, and discharged “downhill” (easy) to the cathode when on battery power. Deep discharges, damages this “upward” electrolyte chemistry for the battery to maintain a healthy charge and discharge balance relative to its age and cycles.
Optimally, in terms of a healthy lithium battery and its condition, it is most happy at 50% between extremes, which is why low-power-drain processors such as the Haswell are ideal on lithium battery health since a partially charged battery with a low-drain processor has, in general, much more usage in hours
Battery calibration, battery memory, battery overcharging, battery training, …all these concepts are mostly holdovers from much older battery technology, and on older Apple portable Macbooks ranging from early nicads, NiMh and otherwise; and these practices do not apply to your lithium battery and its smart controllers.
Calibrating the battery on older Apple portable Macbooks with removable batteries.
http://support.apple.com/kb/PH14087
There is no calibration of current Apple portable Macbooks with built-in batteries.
http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1490
There is no battery calibration with current Apple portable Macbooks with built-in batteries. Lithium batteries have essentially a 0-‘memory’, and all such calibration involve the estimations fed to the system controller on the SOC (state of charge) of the battery over long periods of time as the battery degrades. The software based battery controller knows the battery's characteristics, or SOC and adjusts itself. This is why there is both no need and purpose to periodically deeply drain your macbook battery, since it doesn’t affect the characteristics of the battery, and further still deep discharges are something you should not do on purpose to any lithium battery.
From BASF: How Lithium Batteries work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PjyJhe7Q1g
Peace

Yet Another Battery Confusion

Hey all, how u guys doing?
Ok. This has been for a month already. I keep checking coconutBattery and found that
my battery capacity is about 86%, with only 160 load-cycles over a period of 7 months (or 5 months, minus the 2 months its sitting in the Apple Store before i bought it)
Is this normal? I admit that I use the battery heavily on the first 3 months before switching to power plug more often after a friend's advice. But then, the battery capacity was still above 95%
I recorded the slow battery degrading in coconutbattery, Nov 08 it was 97% and Dec 08, 92%
But i didnt expect it to jump down to 86% today. Its been playing round 86 - 88%. Never goes back to at least 90%. What's going on?
I know the rule for replacement is 80% before 300 cycles, looks like i can only hope it goes 80% before that so i can get free battery replacement or can the Apple dudes do anything if i show this to them?
Thanks for the attention and reply, hopefuly
Cheers!

The advice to run your computer more on the AC adapter could be part of the problem. Like humans, the battery can stay healthy only with exercise. This is a good read:
http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html
Especially note the link in the lower right under "AppleCare" that reads. "How to calibrate a battery for best performance."
A slow and linear decline in health is not abnormal; when it plummets from 95 percent to 65 overnight as mine did, that's abnormal. My problem turned out to be a leak. Remove your battery and examine the edges where the two case halves meet. If you see any blue-gray crud that looks like paper maché stuck to the seams, take it in. Mine was replaced under warranty.

Battery Charge on 2013 MBPr 15

Regarding to some posts;
a. To maintain a healthy battery on my newly purchased MBPr 15 inch, I am to drain the battery to around 20% before charing it again. Since this will minimize the no. of charge cycles the batter will have to undergo. It is very bad to leave the charger on after your mac's battery hits 100% since it will do something like a trickle charge. (continuously charging your battery once it drains 1% 99<->100)
b. The new MPBr chargers are using new technology which does not trickle charge the Mac. Therefore, even if i leave the charger on after fully charging my battery, it would not damage the battery. (With that being said, it is still healthy for the battery if i unplug it and do a complete drain down to like 5%)
Just wanted to clarify which is the best way to protect my battery. Which one is more accurate?
Aside from school, this macbook pro will be used somewhere close to outlets most of the time. Please let me know what's the best way to maintain the health of my battery.

Keep it plugged in when near a socket so you keep the charging cycles down on your LiPo (lithium polymer) cells / battery, but not plugged in all the time. When not being used for several hours, turn it off.
http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html
"Apple does not recommend leaving your portable plugged in all the time."
General rule to remember of Lithium batteries is:
Never drain them LOW & dont always/often store them HIGH
While cycle count is commonly seen to be the “miles” on your Lithium Ion pack cell in your Macbook, which they are, this distinction is not a fine line at all, and it is a big misconception to “count charge cycles”
*A person who has, for example, 300 charge cycles on their battery and is recharging at say 50-60% remaining of a 100% charge has better battery usage and care than another person who has 300 charge cycles at say 15% remaining on a 100% charge.
DoD (depth of discharge) is far more important on the wear and tear on your Macbook battery than any mere charge cycle count. *There is no set “mile” or wear from a charge cycle in general OR in specific.    As such, contrary to popular conception, counting cycles is not conclusive whatsoever, rather the amount of deep DoD on an averaged scale of its use and charging conditions.
                          (as a very rough analogy would be 20,000 hard miles put on a car vs. 80,000 good miles being something similar)
*Contrary to some myths out there, there is protection circuitry in your Macbook and therefore you cannot overcharge it when plugged in and already fully charged
*However if you don’t plan on using it for a few hours, turn it OFF (plugged in or otherwise) ..*You don’t want your Macbook both always plugged in AND in sleep mode       (When portable devices are charging and in the on or sleep position, the current that is drawn through the device is called the parasitic load and will alter the dynamics of charge cycle. Battery manufacturers advise against parasitic loading because it induces mini-cycles.)
Keeping batteries connected to a charger ensures that periodic "top-ups" do very minor but continuous damage to individual cells, hence Apples recommendation above:   “Apple does not recommend leaving your portable plugged in all the time”, …this is because “Li-ion degrades fastest at high state-of-charge”.
                    This is also the same reason new Apple notebooks are packaged with 50% charges and not 100%.
LiPo (lithium polymer, same as in your Macbook) batteries do not need conditioning. However...
A lot of battery experts call the use of Lithium cells the "80% Rule" ...meaning use 80% of the charge or so, then recharge them for longer overall life.
Never let your Macbook go into shutdown and safe mode from loss of power, you can corrupt files that way, and the batteries do not like it.
The only quantified abuse seen to Lithium cells are instances when often the cells are repeatedly drained very low…. key word being "often"
Contrary to what some might say, Lithium batteries have an "ideal" break in period. First ten cycles or so, don't discharge down past 40% of the battery's capacity. Same way you don’t take a new car out and speed and rev the engine hard first 100 or so miles.
Proper treatment is still important. Just because LiPo batteries don’t need conditioning in general, does NOT mean they dont have an ideal use / recharge environment. Anything can be abused even if it doesn’t need conditioning.
From Apple on batteries:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1446
http://www.apple.com/batteries/
Storing your MacBook
If you are going to store your MacBook away for an extended period of time, keep it in a cool location (room temperature roughly 22° C or about 72° F). Make certain you have at least a 50% charge on the internal battery of your Macbook if you plan on storing it away for a few months; recharge your battery to 50% or so every six months roughly if being stored away. If you live in a humid environment, keep your Macbook stored in its zippered case to prevent infiltration of humidity on the internals of your Macbook which could lead to corrosion.
Considerations:
Your battery is subject to chemical aging even if not in use. A Lithium battery is aging as soon as its made, regardless.
In a perfect (although impractical) situation, your lithium battery is best idealized swinging back and forth between 20 and 85% SOC (state of charge) roughly.
Further still how you discharge the battery is far more important than how it is either charged or stored short term, and more important long term that cycle counts.
Ultimately counting charge cycles is of little importance. Abuse in discharging (foremost), charging, and storing the battery and how it affects battery chemistry is important and not the ‘odometer’ reading, or cycle counts on the battery.
Everything boils down to battery chemistry long term, and not an arbitrary number, or cycle count.
Keep your macbook plugged in when near a socket since in the near end of long-term life, this is beneficial to the battery.
Peace
some usefull, partially "ok, interesting" information on same
Gaming: In cases of heavy and frequent use in gaming it is recommended, if possible, to keep your Mac plugged in since these frequent fast and deep discharges of the battery are not ideal for battery longevity.
If you were to always keep your macbook battery floating between 20% and 80% charge roughly, then you’d have no other considerations to make about your battery and its care,… except for long-term storage.
Natural changes of capacity in lithium batteries happens when they undergo cathode degradation at roughly 20% per year where Ion exchange becomes less efficient. Mostly low draining (deep DOD) and to a much lesser degree high standing charge rates accelerate this process. Unnatural capacity for lithium battery charges changes, and chemistry changes in a lithium battery when often pushed or pulled to extremes
In a lithium battery, deep discharges alter the chemistry of the anode to take up lithium ions and slowly damages the batteries capacity for the cathode to transport lithium ions to the anode when charging, thereby reducing max charge levels in mAh. In short, radical swings of power to lithium cells disrupts the chemical ecosystem of the battery to hold charges correctly which likewise impedes the perfect transfer of lithium ions both in charging and discharging. In charging your lithium battery, lithium ions are “pushed uphill” (hard) to the anode, and discharged “downhill” (easy) to the cathode when on battery power. Deep discharges, damages this “upward” electrolyte chemistry for the battery to maintain a healthy charge and discharge balance relative to its age and cycles.
Optimally, in terms of a healthy lithium battery and its condition, it is most happy at 50% between extremes, which is why low-power-drain processors such as the Haswell are ideal on lithium battery health since a partially charged battery with a low-drain processor has, in general, much more usage in hours
Battery calibration, battery memory, battery overcharging, battery training, …all these concepts are mostly holdovers from much older battery technology, and on older Apple portable Macbooks ranging from early nicads, NiMh and otherwise; and these practices do not apply to your lithium battery and its smart controllers.
Calibrating the battery on older Apple portable Macbooks with removable batteries.
http://support.apple.com/kb/PH14087
There is no calibration of current Apple portable Macbooks with built-in batteries.
http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1490
There is no battery calibration with current Apple portable Macbooks with built-in batteries. Lithium batteries have essentially a 0-‘memory’, and all such calibration involve the estimations fed to the system controller on the SOC (state of charge) of the battery over long periods of time as the battery degrades. The software based battery controller knows the battery's characteristics, or SOC and adjusts itself. This is why there is both no need and purpose to periodically deeply drain your macbook battery, since it doesn’t affect the characteristics of the battery, and further still deep discharges are something you should not do on purpose to any lithium battery.
From BASF: How Lithium Batteries work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PjyJhe7Q1g
How its made, Lithium batteries
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJrNCjVS0gk
Bad discharging or battery use conditions:
Heat (due to environmental conditions or due to rapid discharges from heavy use = gaming / video editing)
Rapid discharging of the battery frequently causes chemical changes over time in the battery leading to decreased capacity and resistance of current flow.
The very worst use of your battery is often draining the battery very low, and worse still letting it remain in such a state.
*Most long-term rapid damage to the battery occurs from discharging it with high loading (gaming) conditions but paramount is avoiding deep and frequent low DOD (depths of discharge) in use.
Undesirable charging or charged conditions:
High perpetual SOC (state of charge), where the battery is always or very often connected to charge
Parasitic loading where the battery is both usually on and charging or worse both always charging and in sleep mode, since this induces mini-cycling of the battery.
Bad general handling conditions:
Temperature use conditions when either too hot (95F and above) or too cold (50F and below)
Storing your battery away with a low charge (40% and less) long-term.
Considerations:
Your battery is subject to chemical aging even if not in use. A Lithium battery is aging as soon as its made, regardless.
In a perfect (although impractical) situation, your lithium battery is best idealized swinging back and forth between 20 and 85% SOC (state of charge) roughly.
Further still how you discharge the battery is far more important than how it is either charged or stored short term.
Ultimately counting charge cycles is of little to no importance. Abuse in discharging (foremost), charging, and storing the battery and how it affects battery chemistry is important and not the ‘odometer’ reading, or cycle counts on the battery.
Everything boils down to battery chemistry long term, and not an arbitrary number, or cycle count.
Keep your macbook plugged in when near a socket since in the near end of long-term life, this is beneficial to the battery.

Some questons about z61t

Hello everybody
recently I got for myself a z61t-9443.
I don’t want this laptop to be a replacement of my desktop, I would like to upgrade it abit but my knowledge around laptops is really poor.
So here are some questions.
Questions about mini-pcie
1)In some reviews people showed benchmarks for graphics which included the intel 950 but also with a geforce go 6600
I could not find any serious information neither about geforce go or ati mobility , only some salvaged parts on ebay and they were all mini-pci
So what is the case? Does the machine has a mini-pci? How they managed to use a geforce 6600 on a z61t? as far as I searched there are no mini-pci-e gpus.
Is there any way to upgrade the cpu?
2)I read about mini-pcie ssds and some intels turbo memory technology which can be used to boost the boot times a lot, can they be used on z61t’s second mini-pcie?
Questions about battery.
3)Would you buy a second battery or an ultrabay battery? (I need to state I don’t find dvd really usefull)
Questions about ram.
4)If I upgrade the processor to a core 2 and use windows 7 x64, will it be able to detect and use all 4 gbs of ram. Or system will just be using 3gbs?
Questions about processor.
5)I read that it is possible to upgrade to some core 2 duo processor of the series t7xx, is this possible?
6)From an cpu upgrade will my computer “melt”?
Question about hdd
7)if I get a disk with more rpms will it have an effect on system temperature?
Question about Lenovo support
8)why I couldn’t find drivers from Lenovo for the card reader on windows 7 and I had to use some of dell I found on the internet? (yes that is irony )
Question about the pc card.
9) what is the use of a pc card? I haven’t found anything usefull that can go in the pc card slot until now
anyway mates I hope you are not tired from my essay lol. Thanx anyway for the trouble reading it and a bigger thanx if you reply

1. The Z61t only had the intel gpu. You can't upgrade the GPU as such, MXM solution won't work either.
2. Z61t wasn't designed for turbo memory technology, i don't think you can it will work.
3. I wouldn't go with the ultrabay battery as it is always used first and charged first, which causes faster battery degradation.
4. 3 gig is the hardware limit and not a software limit.
5/6. You can go with T7xxx CPU, but T5xxx CPU with the 667 mhz FSB runs cooler. These CPU were all available in the Z61t.
7. 7200 rpm drive should not increase the laptop temp as such.
8. Not sure about the driver, since my Z61t doesn't have Win 7 installed.
9. maybe a usb expansion card can be added to the pc-card, where you can get more usb ports.
Regards,
Jin Li
May this year, be the year of 'DO'!
I am a volunteer, and not a paid staff of Lenovo or Microsoft

Battery Degrading

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