Bus routing delay

Ok, Please try stay with me as I try to explain...
-Kick drum group in Ultrabeat outputs from UB ch17 > Aux 1 in Logic's mixer
-Aux1 is sent to Bus1 as a pre-fader send.
-Aux1 is now my kick drum channel fader.
-Bus1 has no output, It will be used as a chain signal only
-A synth patch has Noise gate insert with reduction reversed
-Noise gate insert is sidechained to bus1.
So we have a ducking synth, simple. The problem is the delay on the noise gate from the routing is pretty large. I can use lookahead on the noise gate but by the time i stop the track and play again the lookahead resets. Is this a bug? I realise in a real desk's routing I would introduce delay in the same way but is there a way around it in the digital domain?
Thanks!!
ooohh... Also, This kind of routing really stresses out a single core for some reason. is there a way to share the load??
Thanks again !!

oxtailz wrote:
Ok, Please try stay with me as I try to explain...
-Kick drum group in Ultrabeat outputs from UB ch17 > Aux 1 in Logic's mixer
-Aux1 is sent to Bus1 as a pre-fader send.
-Aux1 is now my kick drum channel fader.
-Bus1 has no output, It will be used as a chain signal only
-A synth patch has Noise gate insert with reduction reversed
-Noise gate insert is sidechained to bus1.
So we have a ducking synth, simple. The problem is the delay on the noise gate from the routing is pretty large. I can use lookahead on the noise gate but by the time i stop the track and play again the lookahead resets. Is this a bug? I realise in a real desk's routing I would introduce delay in the same way but is there a way around it in the digital domain?
Are you talking about main SideChain function... routing the signal
through noise Gate to use it as Key Input to open Synth sound in sync to triggering audio peak transient sound?
This is the top class Live Mode function...
*you must have PCD set to "ALL" to avoid delay*
BUT... also the Noise Gate have delay itself... (no 0ms setting)
On analog recording studio I use DBX KeepexII for achieve this result... but Keepex is very fast!!! No latency!!!. (I hope that Universal Audio will made a Keepex emulation plugin as soon)
So the best way is to bounce as audio the track in SOLO! (and sync it by use Sample editor)
This works fine on my old G5 too!!
ooohh... Also, This kind of routing really stresses out a single core for some reason. is there a way to share the load??
Obvious, you are using Live mode function = Live MODE function cannot use Multicore processing...
ONLY ONE CORE of a single processor can be used... even if you have 2x processors
The power is similar as my G5 2Ghz in that condictions...
(This is why I chose the single Quad nehalem 2.66... in similar condiction there is hypertrheading that allow to use double power processing)
Cheers

Similar Messages

Cause for routing delay

I have a motor control design on my spartan 6 lx9 device. As my design grew routing delays became large, which is normal
as i understand.
I was wondering what is the cause for the routing delay. Is ist the actual time the signal needs in the fpga to
traverse the distance between the gates(traveling at some percentage of c)? If so, for a routing delay of 1ns this would mean
a routing lenght between gates of around 300 cm (assuming v=c) which seems like to much..

Short answer: RC time constants due to FETs (likely). I say "likely" because I cannot find, in a very short attempt, any Xilinx documentation on how their routing matrix works at the lowest level.
Routing matrix
This is an FPGA. Unlike an ASIC, general purpose routing is configurable, and that configuration as far as routing is concerned is achieved with active elements controlled by SRAM bits, such as muxes, FETs. It is not done with little nano-creatures spooling and unspooling wire within the FPGA based on your bitstream. Consequently, to get from one side of a large FPGA to the other, using the general purpose routing, can take orders of magnitude longer than it would take light to traverse the same distance in free space.

V.7.2.1 Fixes Motu bus routing weirdness

YAY! Well done apple, that was one of the points I made on the "Thing you'd like to see in the next version of logic" post on this forums not so long ago. So is it one fix per version? Should I just wait till 2045 and buy Logic Express 80, when all the bugs are worked out?
Oh well, at least it's nice to not have to sit and plan your bus routing before starting a project! Thanks, I suppose.....

Hi David,
as you are in UK, I thought you like to know that Sound on sound mag editor Paul White has an e-mail add for those issues to report to apple.
regards,
Jorge
http://www.soundonsound.com/

Bus routing information?

how can I get my bus sends to be stereo while being pre-fader. I need to use these for my cue mixes but can't make them stereo. help?

I gues what I am trying to do is send a cue mix via the bus sends but want it to send my panning info also. I ultimately want pan control for the bus. does that make sense? thanks for your help guys!

How can i delay the present of direct connected route?

Hi, I got 2 3550SMI switch interconnecting by Etherchannel. Each 3550 has an uplink to its upstream router (R1-SW1=SW2-R2). R1 and R2 connects to the remote site routers (say R3 and R4).
With EIGRP redistribute connected, R1 update the direct connected network via WAN link A to R3 where R2 does the same thing updating R4 via WAN link B.
The failover is fine after SW2 powered off. However, problem occured when I powered up SW2. During the bootup of SW2, there was carrier signal which brought up the ethernet port of R2 and the direct connected route presented in R2 then updating R4. Some of the traffic had started to come over from R4 via WAN link B to R2 while SW2 is still booting. (or Etherchannel was not yet ready). As a result, workstation connecting to SW1 cannot be reached for those traffic came from R4->R3->SW2.
I have tried to use "carrier-delay 60"on the ethernet port of R2. It seems solve the problem since the direct connected route delay 60sec. Within that 60 sec, no update via EIGRP from R2 to R4 so that all traffic still went through R3->R1. After that 60 sec, SW2 had already bootup and the etherchannel was also ready.
However, i can only do it with C3725 router. I've tried 1750, 25xx, 26xx and 3640-12.3T but the behavior was not expected (route still present immediately after carrier signal detected).
My questions are:
Is that command valid on Eth or FE interface?
Is there any different using that command with diff. router series, eg. ISR (18xx,28xx,38xx)?
Is there any condition that I could make it work? (at least 3725 worked)
Is there any other way to delay the present of that direct connected route?
Thanks.

Hello,
instead of the 'carrier-delay' command, you could try to change the EIGRP hello and hold-time intervals (which default to 5 and 15 seconds respectively on broadcast media such as Ethernet), in order to delay EIGRP convergence. So, on your Ethernet interfaces when you use the interface commands:
ip hello-time eigrp x 60
ip hold-time eigrp x 180
the redistributed routes will show up only after 60 seconds, which effectively does the same as the 'carrier-delay'...
Can you try that and see if that works for you ?
Regards,
GP

Google bus maps no longer working

I own an iPhone 4 with the iOS 5. I depend a lot on the bus directions in the maps app, but it stopped working yesterday. If I out in two previously valid locations and ask for a bus route, it was that no transit can be found. But the directions for a car or walking work just fine. I am really frustrated and would like to know if anyone else has experienced this problem. I updated a few apps a number of days ago, but I don't remember if Maps was one of them.

I've had the same problem for quite a while. I just thought it was because my computer is so old (2001). I also have a problem with Google images. A few images pop up and that's it.
I resorted to using Yahoo for images and maps, and haven't had a problem.

IDELAY : Tap delay control using Ref_frequency

Hello,
I am trying to understand the IDELAY modules and I've read quite a few discussions on this forum regarding the same.
My doubt is the following:
I am using Kintex-7, with speed grade -2 and the data sheet states that I must get an average delay of 52ps (Tap delay) when I set the reference frequency to 300Mhz.
I tried driving two IDelay blocks with tap values 0 and 1 with the same signal(data_in). Ideally, the output must be two signals separated by 52ps; This is exactly what I see in the post-route FUNCTIONAL simulation.
However, when I run the post route TIMING simulation, the difference is 64ps and not 52ps.
Also, I probed the DATAIN pin of the two IDelay blocks and I see the signals at the input of both the IDELAY blocks, arrive at the same time. This means the routing delay is not causing the extra (65-52)ps of delay.
Could anyone please explain this?
Thanks!
-Kamath

The calibration process does not take into account the exact values, but tries to calibrate by increasing/decreaasing these tap values such that the data is at the centre of the eye
Sorry, but that's not true...
Don't confuse the calibration process of the IDELAY (which is done internally using the IDELAYCTRL and sets the delay of each tap), and any user implemented dynamic calibration process that is trying to find the center of a data eye by adjusting the number of taps.
The delay taps in the IDELAY are calibrated to be fixed values. The average value of an individual tap is Trefclk/64, however there is some variation from tap to tap - notably, the first tap is larger than the rest.
The calibration done by the IDELAYCTRL calibrates a string of 64 elements, so that the sum of the 64 elements is one complete period of REFCLK. The calibration information obtained for these 64 element is used for the 32 elements in each IDELAY/ODELAY. If all the delay elements were identical, then that would result in the perfect tREFCLK/64 for each element, but they aren't perfectly identical - due to a number of internal factors, the delay elements are slightly different.
But, a given element will always be the same value across process voltage and temperature (PVT). So, if tap0 measures as 64ps, it will be 64ps across all PVT; tap1 may be a different value, but it will be that value across PVT.
There is a white paper that describes this effect (and others) for the Virtex-4 (which was similar to V5, V6 and the 7 series - but not UltraScale) here.
The static timing analysis tools know about the variation from tap to tap, so the results you get out of trce or Vivado static timing analysis will be exact; these should always be your final verification for "tweaking" the number of taps you want for static phase shifting of an interface.
Avrum

What is the typical propagation delay?

Hello,
I am building a ring oscillator in SPARTAN6. The output is connected to a multiplexer and mux output is connected to a 32-bit counter. How much maximum frequency can mux and counter handle?
I generated 2 ring oscillators one with 100 and one with 200 NOT gates. RO with 100 gates generate 10 MHz frequency, RO with 200 gates generate 5 MHz. It means the propagation delay of a gate is 10ns, which seems not correct. And I need less NOT gates in order to get maximum frequency. How "less" can I go further?
Thanks.

You should check your math. 100 gates in a ring should mean that 10 MHz (100 ns) gets divided by 100 (1 ns) which might be a typical gate delay. Remember that a "gate delay" in any FPGA really also includes the routing delay between the gates. Just because the LUT delay from the data sheet says something like 150 ps doesn't mean you can string these end to end and get 150 ps total from one LUT to the next. Routing delays can account for as much as 70% of the typical path delay in a modern FPGA.
You should also note that the tools are not well equipped to do things like ring oscillators. You should probably be adding LOC constraints to your LUTs in the ring to get a consistent delay time from build to build. Even better, also add directed routing constraints once you have the ring going at somewhere near the frequency you want.
As for the max frequency, you can just add a period constraint to the clock you provide for your counter. That will tell the tools what your target frequency is, and they will do their best to meet it. The actual max frequency and worst case path will appear in the post P&R timing report if you select the "verbose" report. For the normal report, you will get a max frequency if you enable generation of the data sheet section, but you won't see the worst case path unless it fails timing.

Having audio object use multiple outs

is it possible to have my autoload setup to where my audio tracks and instrument tracks use multiple outs?
example.
setup audio track 1 to use out 1-2 and out 2-3.
reason.
i have my mackie hr824's on out 1-2, but i have another set of monitors that i would like to use for an a/b setup. i don't have the money to purchase a mackie big knob, or a presonus device. per other discussions i have my env setup with a layer to control the outputs of my RME. what i would like to do is to connect the other monitors to outs 3-4. keep them muted until i need to use them. i just need to know i you can setup audio objects to use multiple outs.
ciao

what do you have you PDC set to in the preferences?
I use all three settings, at times. I'll turn PDC off if I need to use software monitoring with high-latency plug-ins on other tracks, but really, the best solution is not to track with too many plug-ins on anything. PDC is designed for playback/mixing, not tracking, and in 7.2.3, I've found it works well (although not exactly the way I'd like it to). For tracking with plug-ins, you'd likely want different behavior, to compensate for the fact that you're playing along with tracks that are already delayed due to plug-in latency--it's different from playback.
At any rate, my best advice at this point (with any DAW, as far as I know) is that you shouldn't track with high-latency plug-ins on any tracks or busses that are time/rhythm references, regardless of PDC settings. For mixing, the "All" PDC setting should be fine.
And the PDC setting doesn't affect the mix bus routing at all (no latency at any setting), unless you have plug-ins on that mix bus when tracking, which again, isn't a good idea re: performance timing.
James
[email protected]

How can I transfer iBooks from my 4th to 5th gen iPod Touch both running iOS 6, using iTunes 11?

I downloaded the e-book The 80/10/10 Diet by Dr. Douglas Graham directly onto my old 4th gen iPod Touch from interviewthemasters.com a while back so my Purchases in iTunes 11 still shows no books available to re-download. _None_ of my iBooks content (e.g. bus route PDFs) show up _or_ seem to sync, even though I have Settings that all available apps sync their data _and_ back up into iCloud. I even got to a PC, downloaded iTunes, restored from my 4th gen's backup right onto my 5th gen, and still nothing in the way of my iBooks content, though the first time I pulled it up, I saw them on the shelf for a split second...>:-| What's going on? Why won't it propagate to my new device via iCloud? Nor can I find a way through iTunes 11 to get my content to my new iPod (yes, I have all authorized under the same Apple ID). Please help! All my annotations through iBooks are very valuable to me and I don't want to keep my old iPod and drag it out any time I want to reference my own notes on a book I bought! Am I to believe Apple cares nothing for my personal data unless it's through their store, and extends entertainment industry shenanigans to disable their own apps with _my_ content garnered elsewhere, _presuming_ it "must" be content which can be found on the store?! If so, how do I get control back of my own data? Apple used to say "tough" if you wanted to re-download purchases. Are personal effects like Notes and iBooks still a drop-stitch? The larger issue of ignoring private content and disabling their ecosystem presuming content is illicit outside their store is pernicious to say the least, and if Apple officially declines to right that wrong I really will leave their ecosystem, and burn the path behind me. I can't be the only person in this boat regarding cavalier ineptitude/negligence regarding basic functionality other than hooked into Apple's money machine.

To reiterate, the 80/10/10 book was purchased from interviewthemasters.com and worked perfectly as a e-book through iBooks including annotations, hilighting, etc. It never syncs to my machine _or_ iCloud, so I cannot try your recommendation regarding the iTunes Book library, unless you can explain how to get it from my iPod into iTunes. The fact Apple syncs only its store's content and disables syncing for my own independently procured content, particularly as the sole means of communicating with iPods, I find reprehensible and is a perfect example of screwing their customers and hobbling their devices for the supposed privilege of offering entertainment industry content since offered elsewhere far less restrictively and at higher quality (Spotify, anyone?). In any case, if anyone can explain how I can get my own book onto a different iPod, I'd love to hear from you—and no, I'm not anxious to use shady PC utilities, and those well-reviewed don't support anything but music and movies. I do not have access to a Mac, only my iPods and a PC, right now (I'm working on it! Trust me, aside from wholly unnecessary shenanigans, Apple offers a vastly superior product!).

Problem with Volume in iOS6

Hi All,
I was playing Street Fighter on iPhone 4 (iOS 6) whilst i was playing i received an incoming call which i declined, but post that the volume of the game went into mute and couldnt hear a thing. I pressed the home button, then double clicked it and closed the game. Then restarted the game to get my volume in my game back.
It happened again and this time i tried increasing the volume, no help what soever. I re-tried the work around and i got the volume in my game back.
Any ideas whats going on, as this didnt happen in iOS 5
Regards
Bhargav

I think the behaviour you described for the solo button is the expected one. When you use bus routing, the "columns" are the source?where the channels will be copied from, and the "rows" are the destination where the channels will be routed. If you are not playing music that uses a pair of channels, routing them to others?won't do anything. For stereo sources it's better to route in the 'Wave' column. If you use a playback software that supports ASIO output plugins you can assign channels arbitrarily whithin the program.

[Solved] tun module was loaded but not in lsmod?

Hi Everybody,
I loaded the tun module with "sudo modprobe tun" without any error message but didn't see it anywhere in "sudo lsmod". What might be the problems? I'm using linux-ck and wondering if linux-ck does anything here.
The reason I want to load the tun module is that I saw this error:
[root@ArchCustom openvpn]# openvpn --config ibVPN-LU-Luxembourg-\(P2P\).ovpn
Thu Jan 17 08:03:20 2013 OpenVPN 2.2.2 x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu [SSL] [LZO2] [EPOLL] [eurephia] built on Aug 18 2012
Enter Auth Username:[email protected]
Enter Auth Password:
Thu Jan 17 08:03:30 2013 IMPORTANT: OpenVPN's default port number is now 1194, based on an official port number assignment by IANA. OpenVPN 2.0-beta16 and earlier used 5000 as the default port.
Thu Jan 17 08:03:30 2013 NOTE: the current --script-security setting may allow this configuration to call user-defined scripts
Thu Jan 17 08:03:30 2013 NOTE: --script-security method='system' is deprecated due to the fact that passed parameters will be subject to shell expansion
Thu Jan 17 08:03:30 2013 LZO compression initialized
Thu Jan 17 08:03:30 2013 Control Channel MTU parms [ L:1578 D:138 EF:38 EB:0 ET:0 EL:0 ]
Thu Jan 17 08:03:30 2013 Socket Buffers: R=[212992->131072] S=[212992->131072]
Thu Jan 17 08:03:30 2013 Data Channel MTU parms [ L:1578 D:1450 EF:46 EB:135 ET:32 EL:0 AF:3/1 ]
Thu Jan 17 08:03:30 2013 Fragmentation MTU parms [ L:1578 D:1300 EF:45 EB:135 ET:33 EL:0 AF:3/1 ]
Thu Jan 17 08:03:30 2013 Local Options hash (VER=V4): '9a22532e'
Thu Jan 17 08:03:30 2013 Expected Remote Options hash (VER=V4): 'e2a912d8'
Thu Jan 17 08:03:30 2013 UDPv4 link local (bound): [undef]:1194
Thu Jan 17 08:03:30 2013 UDPv4 link remote: 212.117.165.18:1194
Thu Jan 17 08:03:30 2013 TLS: Initial packet from 212.117.165.18:1194, sid=bfe5f406 752fd5e9
Thu Jan 17 08:03:31 2013 VERIFY OK: depth=1, /C=US/ST=CA/L=SanFrancisco/O=Fort-Funston/CN=Fort-Funston_CA/[email protected]
Thu Jan 17 08:03:31 2013 VERIFY OK: nsCertType=SERVER
Thu Jan 17 08:03:31 2013 VERIFY OK: depth=0, /C=US/ST=CA/L=SanFrancisco/O=Fort-Funston/CN=server/[email protected]
Thu Jan 17 08:03:31 2013 Data Channel Encrypt: Cipher 'BF-CBC' initialized with 128 bit key
Thu Jan 17 08:03:31 2013 Data Channel Encrypt: Using 160 bit message hash 'SHA1' for HMAC authentication
Thu Jan 17 08:03:31 2013 Data Channel Decrypt: Cipher 'BF-CBC' initialized with 128 bit key
Thu Jan 17 08:03:31 2013 Data Channel Decrypt: Using 160 bit message hash 'SHA1' for HMAC authentication
Thu Jan 17 08:03:31 2013 Control Channel: TLSv1, cipher TLSv1/SSLv3 DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA, 1024 bit RSA
Thu Jan 17 08:03:31 2013 [server] Peer Connection Initiated with 212.117.165.18:1194
Thu Jan 17 08:03:33 2013 SENT CONTROL [server]: 'PUSH_REQUEST' (status=1)
Thu Jan 17 08:03:33 2013 PUSH: Received control message: 'PUSH_REPLY,redirect-gateway def1 bypass-dhcp,dhcp-option DNS 8.8.8.8,dhcp-option DNS 8.8.4.4,route 10.10.10.0 255.255.255.0 vpn_gateway,show-net-up,route-gateway 10.10.10.1,ping 2,ping-restart 120,ifconfig 10.10.10.18 255.255.255.0'
Thu Jan 17 08:03:33 2013 Options error: Unrecognized option or missing parameter(s) in [PUSH-OPTIONS]:5: show-net-up (2.2.2)
Thu Jan 17 08:03:33 2013 OPTIONS IMPORT: timers and/or timeouts modified
Thu Jan 17 08:03:33 2013 OPTIONS IMPORT: --ifconfig/up options modified
Thu Jan 17 08:03:33 2013 OPTIONS IMPORT: route options modified
Thu Jan 17 08:03:33 2013 OPTIONS IMPORT: route-related options modified
Thu Jan 17 08:03:33 2013 OPTIONS IMPORT: --ip-win32 and/or --dhcp-option options modified
Thu Jan 17 08:03:33 2013 ROUTE default_gateway=192.168.4.1
Thu Jan 17 08:03:33 2013 Note: Cannot open TUN/TAP dev /dev/net/tun: No such device (errno=19)
Thu Jan 17 08:03:33 2013 /usr/sbin/ip link set dev up mtu 1500
Usage: ip link add [link DEV] [ name ] NAME
[ txqueuelen PACKETS ]
[ address LLADDR ]
[ broadcast LLADDR ]
[ mtu MTU ]
[ numtxqueues QUEUE_COUNT ]
[ numrxqueues QUEUE_COUNT ]
type TYPE [ ARGS ]
ip link delete DEV type TYPE [ ARGS ]
ip link set { dev DEVICE | group DEVGROUP } [ { up | down } ]
[ arp { on | off } ]
[ dynamic { on | off } ]
[ multicast { on | off } ]
[ allmulticast { on | off } ]
[ promisc { on | off } ]
[ trailers { on | off } ]
[ txqueuelen PACKETS ]
[ name NEWNAME ]
[ address LLADDR ]
[ broadcast LLADDR ]
[ mtu MTU ]
[ netns PID ]
[ netns NAME ]
[ alias NAME ]
[ vf NUM [ mac LLADDR ]
[ vlan VLANID [ qos VLAN-QOS ] ]
[ rate TXRATE ] ]
[ spoofchk { on | off} ] ]
[ master DEVICE ]
[ nomaster ]
ip link show [ DEVICE | group GROUP ]
TYPE := { vlan | veth | vcan | dummy | ifb | macvlan | can | bridge }
Thu Jan 17 08:03:33 2013 Linux ip link set failed: external program exited with error status: 255
Thu Jan 17 08:03:33 2013 Exiting
And this is the content of ibVPN-LU-Luxembourg-\(P2P\).ovpn:
[root@ArchCustom openvpn]# cat ibVPN-LU-Luxembourg-\(P2P\).ovpn
remote lu1.ibvpn.com 1194 udp
remote 212.117.165.18 1194 udp
client
dev tap
resolv-retry infinite
script-security 3 system
explicit-exit-notify 3
persist-key
persist-tun
mute-replay-warnings
ca ibvpn.com.crt
comp-lzo
verb 3
mute 20
ns-cert-type server
fragment 1300
route-delay 2
auth-user-pass
auth-nocache
reneg-sec 0
up "/etc/openvpn/change_resolv_conf.sh up"
down "/etc/openvpn/change_resolv_conf.sh down"
Regards.
Solved: didn't know what happened, installed linux-ck 3.7.3-1-ck, rebooted and everything was fine.
Last edited by dxxvi (2013-01-20 06:10:47)

Trilby wrote:
Isn't this the same issue:
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php … 1#p1217611
If so, please search the forums before creating new threads of duplicate issues.
It looks like the same issue. Actually, I did a search for "tun" in the Networking forum (but not the newbie forum) and still couldn't find an answer.
My /usr/src/linux-3.7.2-2-ck/.config has CONFIG_TUN=m. Then is there any other reason I cannot load the tun module?
Thanks.

Can no longer copy and paste from MS apps

Could be a nightmare a-brewin'.
As webmaster for a transit company, I'm responsible for
updating the schedules for our 50+ bus routes three times a year on
piercetransit.org. So I opened one up today in Dreamweaver 8 and
launched our brand new version of Excel Mac 2008 to copy and paste
schedule times into a web page. And it didn't work!
Up til now, Excel has been an irreplaceable tool for
converting data from our weird, 70's-era bus scheduling software
[Hastus] into something Dreamweaver can understand. But no matter
how much I fiddle with options under Copy and Paste preferences,
today I got nothing -- literally. It's as if there's nothing
whatsoever on the clipboard. Earlier, I'd noticed the same problem
with our new version of Word, but since I rarely paste anything
into Dreamweaver from Word, I was only mildly irked by it. Given
the thousands of bus arrival and departure times on our site,
however, the inability to insert data from Excel into DMW would be
a disaster!
Am I just missing something, or is this some kind of "How
dare you use anything other than one of OUR products?"
gotcha from Evilco?

This has been an issue with Office 2008 for Mac even with the
CS3 version of Dreamweaver. I believe the only workaround is to do
a paste special as text only but you will lose formatting this way.
You can do a search on this forum also for other suggestions
because I didn't follow the old topics before because I didn't
upgrade till recently, but there might be some other tricks around
here.

Polifemo Project

My name is Diego and I am a student of computer science degree from the University of Padua. I am writing to ask you something about the program I'm working on Polyphemus. I finished now the prototype.
My project is a program that integrates dynamic data, including data about products and services directly from the shared database and management of those with an economic activity. These data are integrated into a geographic map. To understand what I mean by "integrate dynamic data" is just to clarify the context in which we find ourselves: today every business has a management or a computerized archive for at least the list of products and prices. (I built a simple application management service bus, which operates the lines, bus stops and times for each stop-line. You can try this address http://194.116.73.46/PolifemoAutobusSimulator/
These data are managed by users and are always up to date. The idea is to integrate these data. To take these facts, I built an application bridge called PolifemoConnector and you can try this address http://194.116.73.46/PolifemoConnector/. With this application, we connect to our database server Polyphemus in charge of integrating the data. The connection is made by mapping the fields of our database to an XML schema default. We have an XML schema for each activity: buses, trains, subways, restaurants, bars, events, etc. .. etc. .. The connector and set the datasource for each XML tag set the field by selecting or typing a query in more complex cases. I created a sub language in which you can insert SQL variables. It 'easier to understand seeing the example application. For example, once you set the field for the tag <id> we can use in SQL query to select the variable <id> the value of the corresponding record. Once mapped the records, you can locate them on the map. In the prototype, we map the bus stops.
So end user can search events and products in the geographic area in which we live. For example we can search for a pizzeria that has the cheapest pizza or pizzeria where there is our favorite pizza. We know how to integrate more modes of transportation to get to know the destination and cost. From the perspective of those who decide to share data: will be able to advertise for free, can do marketing research, and may benefit from the services generated automatically, such as those of e-commerce. On this will be possible to create other services and create business.
There will be a geographic search engine. This structure will also allow you to add more XML schema and APIs that can be used by other applications or plugins.
Application Server, you can test it at this address http://194.116.73.46/PolifemoServer/. The server is responsible for providing the API for the Client. The Server is responsible for preparing the data and respond to client calls Polyphemus written in JavaFX. In addition the server can add static data, such as events (festivals, concerts, parties, games, etc.).. E 'JavaFX can run the client from this address http://polifemo.googlecode.com/files/prototypeFX.jnlp
The idea then is to create value-added data that until now were only used for personal purposes. Sharing and integration would therefore benefit not only users but also those who decide to share their data. The next goals are to integrate the products and services and implement the search functions, optimizing the connectors so as to minimize the calls to the servers that share data, create a more usable client, view the bus routes and means of transport .
Web applications are unfortunately only in my bad English. At this address you will find the blog to see updates and further explanation http://blogpolifemo.blogspot.com/.
Thank you and good bye
Diego Benna

Hi,
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Mapping elements of VRA to a number

hi,
My project involves maintaining the database for a bus company.
Each bus_route is divided into regions. Each bus-stop on a route maps to a region.
eg. bus-stop numbers 1,2,4,5,6,8 map to Region 2.
I was thinking of having a table regions with the following structure:
create table regions
Region_id NUMBER,
route_id VARCHAR2(20),
bus_stops stops_va
INSERT INTO regions VALUES(2, '459UP', STOPS_VA(1,2,4,5, 6, 8));
However, given a route_id and bus-stop number determining the region is a little tedious involving
looping through the varray elements of all rows with given route_id.
Is there an easier and more efficient way of doing this?
Amina

Amina
You may find it easier to stick to a relational model if you want to be able to query rapidly:
Region ---< Stop ----<Route-Stop>----- Route
Route-Stop represents the M:M relationship between Route and Stop. I'm assuming that a Stop is always in the same Region (for all the bus routes that use the stop). Assuming your bus company works like the London Underground (stop = station) then for example
Stop "Victoria Station" is in region 1;
It is on 3 lines (District, Circle, Victoria Line)
It is stop #4 on Victoria Line; (counting from Brixton)
It is stop #12 on District Line; (counting from Ealing Broadway)
It is stop #8 on Circle Line (counting anti-clockwise from Edgeware Road)
(see map at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/pdfdocs/colourmap.pdf). Actually, for timetabling purposes its on at least 10 lines (Circle line both ways, Victoria line both ways, District Line both ways to each of Wimbledon, Richmond, Ealing ...)
I'm presuming that the Route-Stop would have a stop_number (start to finish of route).
So if you want to list out a bus route from beginning to end:
select rt.route_id, rt.route_desc,
st.stop_id, st.stop_desc,
rs.stop_number,
rg.region_id, rg.region
from routes rt
inner join route_stops rs on rs.route_id = rt.route_id
inner join stops st on st.stop_id = rs.stop_id
inner join regions rg on rg.region_id = st.region_id
where rt.route_id = :my_route
order by rs.stop_number
route_stops has columns (route_id, stop_id, stop_number); the PK is all the rows together; you could make this an index organised table.
Having a relational structure makes it easy to query from any viewpoint; eg if you want to print timetables for a specific bus stop, you easily could...
Failing that, if you really want to pack the route into a nested table (and you've realised that it can be inconvenient) then it's the M:M relationship that wants to be nested. The 'route-stop' table should be nested into the routes table, not the regions table. Essentially, the stop is a more or less permanent fixture; routes may change; you can regard the sequence of stops as a (list) attribute of the route (if the route is axed, the sequence of stops is axed too). When you change a route, you change the list of stops. You'd want to edit one row in routes, not every combination of region/route. Your proposed table means that a route crossing regions would have several rows in the 'regions' table - not very well normalised :-)
HTH, but let me know if you want more information on manipulating nested tables in a relational way
Regards Nigel

Bus routing delay

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