Can logic board be at failure if I can boot the machine?
My 8800GT went kaputt (screen jagged up and crashes during boot under OS X) so I replaced it with GTX285, which only worked for 2 hours and then machine shut down and didn't power up again with 285 in. But I could still power up AND boot Windows with 8800GT, even if the screen is all jagged up. (Mac OS X doesn't boot, it crashes during boot with 8800GT).
I take it to the apple store in France/Lyon and they tell me they think it's the logic board which has failed. They'll order one, and try, and if it works, I pay, if it doesn't I don't pay.
I told them that the logic board couldn't have failed since the machine boots into Windows without any issues, and I can use the machine on Windows. It recognizes both CPU's and all the RAM, I even did a Geekbench test in Windows.
What I suspected was Power Supply but they said Power Supply is fine. But checking power supply is a long procedure, almost takes an entire day to watch and record all the voltage outputs. It's not a simple task, which I highly doubt they did.
Now, my question is, Can a Mac Pro boot into Windows and be usable with a failed logic board? Have you ever heard of such a thing? I could even use that machine in Target Mode from my MBP. 99% a working Target Mode means all the I/O on the machine is working perfectly fine.
Message was edited by: iBug
Bowker, yes within limits the slot loading logic boards (350 - 500mhz) are reasonably interchangable. The 600 and 700mhz ones don't seem to fit in slower machines, due to a different shaped heat sink on the video chip. Why are you swopping? You will not notice much difference between a 400 and 500mhz, I swopped between a 350 and 500mhz and honestly there's very little difference. Three important things if you do decide to go ahead.
1 make sure that this board works before purchase
2 replace the PRAM battery while you have your iMac in bits
3 if you are going to run OSX, make sure that the new logic board has been flashed with the 4.19 firmware.
hope this helps
Andrew Platt
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Can logic board die slowly, or is it black'n white?
My Macbook Pro 15" i7 of early 2011 seems to have a major problem related to the logic board.
in a nutshell, in case you don't have time to read the details:
The computer stopped starting up after quite a few restarts, AHT, PRAM reset, safe boots, new RAM and new SSD. This all happened withing 3 days.
Apple service guys will look at it tomorrow, but they already said it's most likely logic board failure and will need replacement.
the long story:
symptoms I faced along the way:
- less than two weeks ago, screen started freezing forcing me to force-shut down.
- started repeating within hours, occasionally giving Kernel Panic message.
- within a day, frozen screens had several varieties which would either come after a few minutes of working or at startup: blue screen with vertical bars of different shade blue, or same with yellow tones, or the last seen screen with a couple inches of the of the right side of screen having shifted to the left side with a thick black bar in between the two (i could still move the mouse for a while but not able to click).
- started also having sessions where the computer would not start up at all (blue screen or gray screen with wheel turning)
- in between these steps I ran the computer on safe mode mostly successfully, did Apple Hardware Test 3 times with nothing wrong diagnosed (took 18 mins each), I did PRAM reset a few times too
- i tested these with different peripherals and power cable attached and not attached (normally i have a USB external and one or rarely two firewire drives attached for my video and photo work).
I realized that the computer would still be working after the freeze too. I use the MBPro to share internet for my iPhone and while it was frozen I still had internet.
I was following the suggestions on these forums to diagnose the problem.
Some suggested that it could be the RAM.
Coincidentally, the new 16 GB RAM that i had ordered came with the 246GB SSD just then.
As warranty ended already some months ago, I did the replacement with my dad who is an electrician and would know where to touch where not to.
The computer came back to life, super fast with the new SSD. I installed Mac OS X on it, set up the older HDD which I placed in place of the old DVD drive and started moving files around to configure my stysem.
after several hours the screen freezing came back again.
then after repeating the above steps of AHT (which took 2 hours), PRAM etc, it stopped starting up. It won't start anymore. Freezes in the early blue screen.
Just before new year's, I took it to Apple Service in a local store. They said they will have to look at it thoroughly after the 3rd (tomorrow). But the guy said the symptoms which I wrote above pretty much tell already that the logic board is dead.
Can it die in a slow manner like this?
It will cost me at least 750$ and I am not even sure if shipment and labor is included in this (I live in Cyprus). This is a very expensive price to pay for a relatively new machine for which I already paid over $2000 when I bought it 18 months ago.
I read Apple has a tendency to call all such symptoms a 'dead logic board' and just rip people off unfairly. I am aware this was mostly for 2007 and 2008 models but I worry they would still do it. I just spent my savings for the SSD and new RAM. So this is a major bummer.
What would you all suggest for me to try? How should I talk to the Apple Service guys?
is it better to just sell this 'as is' and try to get a new or properly working pre-owned one?
Message was edited by: incagraphyseems like I wrote too long and no-one bothered to read and reply
Sometimes some posts just seem to slip through the cracks... if you're taking your machine to an Apple Authorized Service Provider, and they simply 'reconnected' the logic board and you're still having problems, it sounds as if you need to get the logic board replaced. Since you're out of warranty and you, apparently didn't purchase the AppleCare extended warranty, the repair folks will charge you for a logic board replacement.
$750 sounds a little steep, but if that's what it costs then it doesn't seem as if you've an alternative but to pay the price. I don't know about Cyprus, but I do know that in the US there is an Apple flat rate repair pricing scheme in which Apple will repair anything on the machine for less than $350. You might want to look at the article and ask one of the managers about this program and whether or not you could get the 'deal'.
Good luck - sorry that you're having such a bad experience. Just let it be a lesson to always purchase AppleCare - particularly with Apple notebooks.
Clinton -
I have a failed early 2009 24inch 3.06 GHz with ATI 4850 512 MB graphics.
The hard disk and all other parts are fine, and the machine only boots in safe mode.
Everything has been tried, plus sending to an authorised Apple support service.
I am informed that the Logic Board has failed and face a huge bill to have it replaced.
My questions are as follows.
1. What has failed?
2. Can it be repaired?
3. What is the Apple experience of this?
I have noticed I am also not alone with this problem.
Logic dictates if the Board has failed, a replacement will also fail.
So what is the real fault, and what is the real repair of it?
Or is this a fault that is too complicated for Apple to have a fix other than replace it and repeat the problem.The logic board is a printed circuit board with hundreds capacitors resistors and similar small components soldered onto the fine copper strip.
Additionally there are sockets for RAM drives and CPUs, GPUs etc...
One of the common issues with PCBs in general is solder bleed shorting as a result of heat build up- If this happens its terminal !
Apple have diagnostics that can identify a fault and provide a reference number however frankly if the fault IS on the board (broken copper strip solder bleed or tiny resister for instant) its remains easier and more cost effective to replace the board than attempt to strip the board out - bench test find fault replace and reassemble.
Replacing PCBs is industry practice.
Those fault diagnostic results ARE analyzed by Apple for trends and to identify quality issues.
Lowluster is quite wrong in saying that Apple are secretive if there is an identified design or engineering issue.
In fact there have been such problems in their products and they HAVE had programs to replace those FREE and after normal warranties such as a problem with iBook logic boards faulty MacPro graphic cards,Macbook damaged bottom panels and battery swelling are some. -
Resolution of Logic Board/Airport card failure - iBook G4 2005?
Well, after my first post this morning, I was kindly advised to post a new topic regarding my kernel panics and not-so-nice grey screens of death!
So here goes....
I had experienced this problem since January, when my iBook purchased in April 2006 was coming up to it's first birthday. The problem was this - the iBook would freeze and i'd get a message stating that I needed to re-start. After re-starting, i'd get about 2-3 minutes of use, before the symtoms occured again.
I had the logic-board and airport card replaced twice, by an Apple Store, back in January. The first replacement failed as soon as I got it home, the second replacement failed last night.
So, somewhat dejectedly, I drove to Apple this morning, after booking a Procare session. I was expecting a bill of around £450, as that's what they quoted me back in January, if I had to pay for it. This time I would, as my iBook was 1 month out of warranty, with no Apple Care extended support.
Upon arriving 45 minutes early for my session at the 'Genius Bar', I was promptly served, and advised the tech-guru guy what the issue was. Upon looking at the logs, he checked my warranty, found it had expired, then told me to 'wait', and disappeared into the back office.
Some 5 minutes later, he reappeared, and simply said "have you still got the box for the iBook?"
I did, but it was at home, some 45 minutes away. Then he said these magic words - "We're going to replace it, and give you a new MacBook, free-of-charge"
I was blown away by this approach. I'd expected a repair, possibly a charge, depending on whether they realised that both replacements had been faulty. However, with a machine 1 month out-of-warranty, I did NOT expect a replacement machine.
However, that's what I got. So, I'm composing this thread on a brand-new MacBook Intel Core-2 Duo, with the new spec 1GB RAM and 80GB hard drive.
So, I'd like to take this moment to commend Apple on their outstanding customer-focused approach. Well-done on resolving my issue. Good luck to the rest of you experiencing similar issues.
iBook G4 2005 Mac OS X (10.4.9)Your ibook G4 (purchased april 06 probably being the 1.3 ghz model) was worth about 440 pounds second hand. The quoted repair bill of 450 was higher than the price of the machine itself, and you were going to pay it?
There are unopened macbooks on ebay for 520-540 pounds (inc apple sales receipts+warranty).
Them asking you for the box means they're going to con another customer into buying your broken machine. -
MacBook pro isn't even 2 years old and the logic board died.... Can apple help?
Will apple replace or exchange this for me? It has never been abused, I treat it with so much care. I didn't even think about getting the extended warranty...I expect my computer to last longer than 2 years. Feel really let down by this.
Sorry for your problems but, unless there's a known problem with certain problems, Apple will charge you to replace your motherboard. Next time, I strongly suggest buying AppleCare. I've owned Macs since 1985 and when AppleCare became available, I always bought it for any hardware device for which it was offered - and I believe that it is a particularly good investment for laptops.
You should take it to an Apple Store and see what the price would be for the repair - they are often surprisingly reasonable.
Clinton -
What Can Logic Pro 8 Do that LP 7 Can't?
My question is... What will I be able to do with LogisStudio/Logic Pro 8 ( besides getting rid of the XSkey ), that I can't already do with Logic Pro 7?
Is it really worth the upgrade of $199.00 to have a different GUI & no need for an XS key?It seems to have fixed a number of long-standing bugs. For instance, bouncing a track almost always ended up with a little glitch at the beginning of the bounced file. That's fixed.
I've had my end-of-song marker move mysteriously for no reason at all. That seems to have been fixed.
Waveburner actually can now burn CDs and you can use MatchEQ and multi-pressor with it. I believe a lot of people had trouble with it before.
There is a 33 page "What's new in Logic Pro 8" PDF here:
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You should take a look at that. Not everything there is something you can't currently do - some of it is simplified workflow - but there are a fair number of new, but little features. -
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I allready tried to load an older catalog backup, but that does not help.
The failure message occurs during the starting process while trying to Open the library:
"[String "unarchived table s"]:6 : attempt to compare nil with boolean.
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Macbook Pro Logic board failure
Hi,
On 07 July 2013 I bought a new Macbook Pro from a local iStore. about 1 year later, the monitor failed with a black screen and I submitted the unit for repairs, as it was still under warrantee. The Apple Core Group noted that they had replaced the screen and the main logic board as this was the issue. On receiving the unit back, I noticed that the built-in microphone does not function. This was not a problem for me at the time as I never used the microphone and left it. Fast forward another year and a half, I now have a bigger need for the microphone to function for conference calls etc. About two and a half weeks ago I submitted the unit in for repairs at the same iStore, which was sent away again to the Core Group who deals with repairs on Apple products.
With communications in the past two weeks, they have claimed that the unit does not want to boot up anymore while running diagnostics and eventually told me that the main logic board has failed, and thus the reason it is not working anymore. Today the Core Group sent me a quote of R9200 (+- $750) since my unit is out of warrantee.
This doesnt sound like a valid reason and what am I supposed to do in this case? Am I responsible for dishing out $750 since I left the Macbook in fully working order when I handed it in to Apple Support? Why would the main logic board fail again after it was replaced about a year and a half ago.
Any advice is much appreciated.There are no widespread hardware failures endemic to that model. Lacking any indication to the contrary, the repair facility itself begins to look suspicious. Of course I'm biased since all I have is the information you provided.
... the boot failed while running diagnostics
Obviously it means nothing in the end, but it is commonly accepted that when a repair facility accepts an item for repair, the item remains in their care from that moment until you accept it from them, after which it is returned to your care. The fact it failed while in their care does not appear to be in dispute. You have no way of determining how that occurred, nor should it be your responsibility to determine it. They could have dunked it in water for all you know. How is that your responsibility?
How do you prove that in any case?
Recording the logic board's serial number and comparing it to the one returned to you is one way to ensure it hasn't been swapped with a defective one, but even that can be circumvented if the repair facility is motivated enough to modify it. Anyway, my sympathies are all I can offer. -
Two MacBook Air logic board failures in less than 8 months
Hi All,
I purchased a new MacBook Air in early 2011. 14 months later the logic board needed replacement. 8 months after that the logic board needs replacing again. I don't take the Air into extreme temperature/humidity environments. The computer has never been dropped or had anything spilled on it. This is the 4th latop I've owned since 1995, but all of my previous laptops have been PCs. Is this normal for Apple? Any suggestions on how to avoid yet anoter $280 repair (because of course the latest logic board failure is out of warranty from the initial logic board replacement 8 months ago...)?Let me get this straight - you consider the need to have the logic board replaced twice in less then eight months on a computer that is less than two years old to be a good deal?!? Both logic board failures were diagnosed at an Apple Genius bar in person. It shouldn't matter if it was the hard drive, battery pack, or whatever. To have a major harware component and its replacement fail twice in a very short period of time is inexcuseable! I can understand the first failure - someone has to lose the quality control lottery. However, to have the exact same component need replacing twice strongly suggest shoddy manufacturing/rebuilding.
Are logic board failures so common on Mac Airs that the discussion is about the best repair price and not the frequent failure rate? -
MBP 2011 2nd failure of Logic Board in 3 months
After replacement of Logic Board on my mbp 15' early 2011 three months ago, yesterday I got a black vertical line ( distortion of screen). After restart, everything works fine, but however I take it to the Apple Service. Before that I did hardwer test and found one eror ( 4HDD/11/40000000: sata (0,0)). At Service they said me that my warranty has expired yesterday, when I actually call them to report a problem, because I don't live in the same city. I'm waiting until they finish diagnostics, but if the problem is with logic board again, I won't and can't pay additional 650 euro. Therefore there are someone who has a similar or same problem as me, and what actually I can do in situation like this? I thought to consult EU cosumer protection law because this is for shame!
Apparently the board had a 90 day warranty as reported in these similar threads. It would seem to be a not uncomon failure and if enough failures occur then Apple might act. I had the NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT graphics processor replacement on my 2008 MBP which I will give Apple credit for doing the right thing. Your laws are more stringent regarding merchandise failure so help might be available.
https://discussions.apple.com/message/23806046#23806046
https://discussions.apple.com/message/23503695#23503695
https://discussions.apple.com/message/24474494#24474494
https://discussions.apple.com/message/21922451#21922451 -
HT203254 MBP Logic board failure or GPU failure? Apparently it's simple to test...
I have a 2008 Macbook Pro 15" (2.2Ghz) with NVidia 8600M GT graphics chip. Last month it failed, no longer booting up. The fans start, the LED light comes on, but the keyboard, hard drive and screen fail to come on. After reading article TS2377 I was convinced that the symptoms described match those on my MBP, so I took it to the nearest Apple store. The 'genius' at the 'genius bar' (cringe) took it away then came back and told me that the problem was with the logic board, not the GPU. They diagnosed this by removing the RAM and seeing if the RAM failure beeps sounded. Seeing as there was no sound they diagnosed that the logic board was the source of failure because the RAM test comes before the GPU test in the boot sequence. This test is so simple surely it should be posted under article TS2377???
I must say that I'm completely unconvinced by the diagnosis, but who can argue with a 'genius'? I'd really appreciate it if someone on here could give me a second opinion? Even if they turn out to be right I think I might take out the logic board to see if there's evidence that the GPU has fried the logic board...There are many comments about the NVIDIA GPU issue and Apple not replacing the GPU. I will say I had good success in getting Apple to replace mine in my Macbook Pro. When my computer suddenly would not fully turn on, I researched the issue to find out the possible reasons and then somewhat dawdled in taking it in. It was 2 weeks past the 4-year GPU warranty window. But I had had problems for some time preceding when it wouldn't fully turn on, such as geo designs appearing on the screen and the screen going dark, and those issues did occur at least a month or more before my warranty ended. I had no idea what those issues meant and simply ignored them until the computer wouldn't fully turn on.
The good folks at The Apple store in Austin initially said no luck; yes it's the GPU but it's two weeks past the warranty. But then they kindly relented because clearly the symptoms I described to them that occurred during the warranty were caused by the faulty GPU. How would I know this was the issue? They replaced the logic board at no cost. I've seen comments here that a Genius said the problem was the logic board, not the GPU, and therefore Apple would not make the repair. I was told by my Genius that the GPU is partof the logic board, and therefore the logic board needed replacing. This was a $526 repair that I was grateful Apple took care of. I would not have made the repair and would have gone out and bought a new non-Apple computer with a warranty.
When I got my computer back, I checked it before I left the Apple store and it was running slow. I ended up paying Apple to replace the hard drive, so ultimately I did pay for an Apple repair. But I'm a happy rather than disappointed Apple customer because of the free GPU repair. Happy, devoted customers has made Apple a great company, and it should be worth it to the company to fix the faulty GPUs that are close to warranty to keep customers and keep them happy. -
Is my logic board dead? I can't see a hard drive
My G4 Powerbook (FW800, 1.25GHz model) stopped booting last week, and showed the question mark folder. I ran disk utility from the Tiger CD, and it doesn't "see" the drive. Same with system profiler. Under ATA it shows my Matshita CD-RW, but no hard disk.
Figuring the hard disk is dead, I replace it with a Hitachi 5K160.
The result is the same - neither disk utility nor system profiler can "see" the drive. I also tried target disk mode, and the firewire host couldn't see it either.
This leads me to suspect the logic board, perhaps specifically the ATA controller. However, this doesn't quite make sense, since if the ATA controlled was dead why would the CD-RW drive work?
There are no jumpers in the new drive (just like the old one), which makes it a master.
thoughts?
thanks.
G4 PowerBook Mac OS X (10.4.8)i've seen dead drives - clicking, buzzing and not accessible that passed all tests including fsck command.
often tests won't find errors.
if 2 different dirves are not recognized by Disk Utility it's either drives, drive cable (rare but possible) or logic board.
another way to test drives is to put them into FireWire external case (probably can get one for $20) and try to format them that way.
if drives work and boot the machine, it's likely either drive cable or logic board problem.
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