Can't extend my existing Express b/g WDS network with new Express n

Hi all,
For the past 2 years I have been using a very simple Airport Express b/g wireless network setup. I have two of the older generation b/g Expresses and I've created a WDS network where the main Express is connected to my broadband modem and participates to my WDS as "main" and the relay Express is configured to participate to this WDS as "relay". This setup works flawlessly and I was very happy with it. Note: the firmware version on both units is 6.3.
Recently, I wanted to extend the range of this network. I've bought and received the newer generation Express n. To my surprise, setting it up to extend my already existing b/g WDS is simply impossible. Below is a summary of the situation:
1) The firmware was updated to 7.3.1 as soon as I opened the Airport Utility.
2) The automatic setup wizard in Airport Utility was incapable of extending my current b/g WDS with the Express n. (Green light on but no wifi coming from the new Express n).
3) I've tried countless times to reset and manually reconfigure the new Express n as "remote" in the WDS configuration panel and connect it to either my "main" Express (b/g) or the "relay" Express (b/g). Both "main" and "relay" Expresses (b/g) were also configured to extend WDS to the new "remote" Express n. I've tried to scrupulously follow instructions found in other posts/discussion forums on how to do that.
4) I then tried to make the new Express n as the "main" base station in the WDS. I could successfully connect it to the Internet (Express n connected to broaddand modem via ethernet) and receive wifi from it, but it was impossible to establish a working WDS with my other two b/g Expresses, both reconfigured as "relay" and "remote" in the WDS (again using the instructions from people who succeeded in having both b/g and n units in the same WDS).
5) Adding to all the difficulties in configuring, hard-reseting and reconfiguring each Express, I would very often be in a situation where Airport Utility only sees 1, 2 or none of my 3 Expresses. Rebooting my Mac was the only thing that enabled me to see them again.
6) After about 7 hours trying to figure out how to work this thing without any good results, I've decided to call out for help. In my situation, there seems to be an intrinsic incompatibility between older b/g Express and the newer Express n, at least for WDS network setup.
If anyone is in the same situation and has found a solution to the problem your help will be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

Good news everyone: don't despair, there is hope! After nearly 10 hours of configuration, I finally have a WDS with all three AXs (two b/gs and one n). woohoo!
OK, so here's how I did it:
The main idea here was to replace my "relay" b/g AX with the new n AX.
1) The first thing I did was to reconfigure my "main" b/g AX (the one connected to my modem) so that it can transmit to the new n AX: I simply added the Airport ID of my new n AX in the WDS "remotes" list inside the WDS configuration panel of the "main" b/g AX. I then did an Update Reboot on the "main" b/g AX.
2) After that, I did a Hard reset on the new n AX and plugged it near my old "relay" b/g AX. I then went in Airport Utility, scanned for the new n AX and asked the wizard to "Replace an existing Base Station". It gives you a list of all the base stations your computer has interacted with. I selected the old "relay" b/g AX. The wizard then asked to unplug the base station that is going to be replaced. Did that, and then I did an Update Reboot on the newly configured "relay" n AX.
3) I've rechecked the configuration of the new "relay" n AX, and to my surprise, it wasn't exactly the same as the one for my old "relay" b/g AX. Specifically, I had to manually reconfiguring the whole WDS settings. I had to tell it to "Participate in a WDS", re-input the Aiport ID of the "main" AX and also put the Airport ID of the "remote" AX (the old b/g I'd replaced see below - 5) in the "remotes" list. Once that was re-configured, I updated and rebooted.
4) At that point I had wifi coming from: my "main" b/g AX and now my new "relay" n AX. Yeay! that was the first time I had interaction between b/g and n units.
5) I then went to reconfigure the old "relay" b/g AX and set it up as "remote" and connected it via WDS to the new "relay" n AX. Configuring a b/g AX is a piece of cake compared to the newer n AX!
6) I am very happy to report that it all simply works now! All three AXs are happily talking to each other now. Hooray!
I am almost clueless on why performing these specific steps made it work but it did. My reasoning is that by letting Airport Utility automatically configure the n AX with the configuration data of an old b/g AX it might have changed some settings that were too hidden from view when done manually.
Thanks to dchao99 for input, and Mike hang in there. Try to follow my steps, it might also work for you!
Good luck to all of you.

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Extending the range of my Extreme n Network with an Express n Airport

Hello,
I've been reading some of the questions but couldn't find my specific situation, so here I am posting again. Sorry for the double-post.
I currently have an AEBS 802.11n acting as my main base station and connected to our DSL modem. In a different room across the house, I have an Airport Express 802.11n which is joined to the network (not extending), and there is a printer connected to it via USB.
I tried to extend the range of my network, but since I'm using it in dual mode (2.4 & 5GHz), the Express gave me an error of "operation not supported...", or something similar, so I just gave up and instead of extending the network to solidify its strength, I just added the device as a client and hooked up the printer to it - which is working fine.
Another reason why I'd like to extend the range of the network is because I spend most of the time in the "remote" room, which is 3 rooms away from the AEBS, so I'm not receiving a very strong signal.
I thought of running an Ethernet cable from the AEBS to the Express, but that would require me to crawl in the attic... not worth the trouble because it's not my home, and I'll be moving out some day.
I'll also add that I'm somewhat tech-savvy, but wireless networks have always been my weak link (no pun intended).
How should I set up my equipment in order to get this accomplished?
Thanks!
Message was edited by: jortuno

Here's the general step by step for setting up the "extend" feature on the AirPort Express.
Because you have a dual band Extreme, you may need to assign different names for the main and guest networks to keep things straight. In AirPort Utility - Manual Setup under the Wireless tab, click on the "Options" button to do this.
The "main" network is setup as 802.11n 5 GHz by default, so that is what the Express will "extend". If you have "b" or "g" devices at your remote location, you will need to change the Radio Mode for the main network to a compatible setting like 802.11n (802.11b/g compatible).
_On the AirPort Extreme:_
Open AirPort Utility, click Manual Setup
Click the Wireless tab just below the row of icons
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Update to save settings
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Open AirPort Utility, Click Manual Setup
Click the Wireless tab
Wireless Mode should be set to "Extend a wireless network". If you don't see this choice, hold down the "option" key when you click on the selection box
When you select "Extend.." your wireless network created by the TC will appear as a choice to extend. Select the main network and enter the wireless password.
Make sure there is a check mark next to "Allow wireless clients"
Update to save settings.
Whenever you plug the Express in, it will automatically "extend" the main wireless network from the Base Station. Your computer will automatically connect to the device with the strongest signal, so if you are near one of the Express devices, you will be connecting at that point.
The ethernet port on the Express is also "live" in this setup so you could connect an ethernet device to the Express if you wish.
For more info on the "extend" feature, refer to the Designing AirPort Networks guide, pages 43-44.
http://manuals.info.apple.com/enUS/Apple_AirPort_NetworksEarly2009.pdf

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Use the search as this has been done to death ..
Bob Timmons is the expert on this.. look at his answers here.
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4274187?start=0&tstart=0
https://discussions.apple.com/message/21856077#21856077
This has been automated in the v6 utility. I am used to doing it manually in v5 utility which is also fairly easy.
Apple doco is also good to read.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4145
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4259
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If anyone can give me exact steps (e.g., "...from the Base Station menu, select the Restore Default Setting option" vice "...just restore the defaults..."), I would greatly appreciate it. I'm left to the conclusion that the Express is faulty. I've been using Airport Utility 6.2 from Mountain Lion on one computer and Airport Utility 5.6.1 from Snow Leopard on another computer (the latter give more control while the former just want you to 'forget' the Express).

I finally got it working. I was trying to set it up ethernet. My biggest mistake was when the new Express came on, I did not select 'Continue' - I went straight to manual thinking that I would get the most setup options in manual mode. So everything I initially tried always resulted in 'wireless'. Even when I would update or restore default settings, the Express would not completely restart. Or sometimes I would get an error. So most of the time I had to unplug it. So when it came back up, none of my changes were retained. But there were a lot of times when everything was green and appeared to be fine. But anytime the ethernet cable was plugged in, no more internet.
So here's the weird part. When I finally tried 'continue' (vice manual), I would get 4 options. One would be 'ethernet' extended. So I would select it, it gave me green lights, all looked good, and still the same problem. This is when I got frustrated. I thought I had exhausted all possible combinations.
But somehow when trying continue again after another restore, I only got 3 options. One was the same ethernet extended option (can't remember what the missing 4th one was). And this time it worked - it gave me the big green circle with the checkmark saying it was successful. I don't know what I did different, but I know now that it won't work if 4 options come up to choose from. It will work if only 3 options come up. And success if only verified by the big checkmark. Had anyone anywhere said the checkmark declaring success is validation, then maybe I wouldn't have gone down so many rabbit holes thinking it should have been successful.
As for which Airport Utility I prefer, 6.2 looks nice, but it would just ignore the Express and would want me to 'forget' it and would not let me edit it. Airport Utility 5.6.1 was the one that I ended up using the most and finally had success with. It still strikes me as odd that there is no manually way to pick ethernet, it can only be choosen following a 'restore defaults', and only from the 3-option list (the 4-option list had the same ethernet choice, but it no worky).
Thanks for the response. I really do appreciate it.
Aiport Extreme Gen5 - internet access and router
Airport Express Gen2 - connected via ethernet, extending my wireless
- configured while connect directly to the Extreme, but now on a switch (16-port hub)
Using Airport 5.6.1
1) Restore Defaults from Base Station menu
2) Following restart, Select Continue
3) Of the 3 option presented, select 'ethernet.... extend network...'
- if 4 options are present, may not work
4) Wait for the green circle with the big white checkmark.
5) Connected Express to the switch where a cable went to other end of house - works.
Dead-zone went from 2mbps to 24mbps.
I probably spent 4 hours chasing my tail in anger. The correct way took about 5 minutes total.
Thanks again.

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Using an ethernet cable is still the more reliable way to configure and adjust the AX, but if you are want to try to configure it using wireless, you must return the AX back to factory defaults as follows:
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Hi Guys,
is it possible to run an Airport WDS Network with 5Ghz? I´m using an Airport Extreme Base and a Express, but its only possible to run it with Draft N in 2,4 Ghz... so thats not enough... for IPTV.
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Hello,
I'm having some difficulty that's driving me bananas!
I've recently moved house and got Sky Broadband. They sent me their Sagemcom router and the setup was easy. I thought I'd do what I always do. I'll connect my Time Machine to it via ethernet, and connect via Time Machine's network. Then I have two Airport Expresses in the house to extend the network and use Airplay etc.
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OK so I've been tying it out but unfortunately to no success. Everything looks fine and all lights are green but the network isn't getting extended - just as before.
Click the Wireless tab
Wireless Mode = Extend a wireless network
Wireless Network Name = Same name as the Time Capsule network
Check Mark next to Allow Wireless Clients
I don't have an option to extend a network, only to join: http://flic.kr/p/a222kR
I do get the option though if I use the guided setup, even though it doesn't work: http://flic.kr/p/a24TQQ
I did try one other thing though. I set up the Time Capsule and it works great. Then I tried instead, to use my Airport Extreme to extend the network. The Extreme did give me an option to extend the network in the drop down menu and a checkbox to Allow Wireless Clients, unlike the Express. I do believe that this is now working. I now need to find the best place to put it to extend the range.
My Expresses are only 802.11g so they're pretty old but as I said, it worked at my Dad's house but not here. Does it make a difference that the Airport Base Station at my Dad's house is an older UFO shaped Snow Airport? I'm becoming suspicious that seeing as I've only ever lived in small houses and apartments that maybe they never worked?? I've recently moved into a more spacious house so could this be the problem?
One final test using iStumbler showed that it could see Apple Network XXXXxX until I configured it. Once it was configured it disappeared from iStumbler. The Airport ID number had gone from the list.
Do I need newer n compatible Airport Expresses then? So many questions pop up now... When I turned my Express into the base station (which only throws out a g network) then surely I should be able to extend to the next Express (which is also g only)? It still didn't work. The Express are on version 6.3 by the way. Having the Extreme extend the network is a good start but I also need the others to work too. Do you think I'm correct in my assumption?
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I'm hoping someone can answer this, as I'm about to tear what's left of my hair out - or throw the new Airport Express out the window!
I have an existing D-link 2100 AP (802.11g 2.4ghz) access point. It connects to my wired LAN and serves a few wireless units (wife's PC, iPad, iPhone4, AppleTV2) flawlessly. Yesterday I bought a Airport Express with the intention of hooking it up to the stereo in the kitchen and use it for AirPlay.
Whatever I do I can't seem to get it to find and connect to my WLAN!
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Patrik

Hi,
I had a similar problem setting up the Airport Express through by existing router. The problem in the end was the encryption. I had to do a manual setup (in the airport utility). My router has a 10 digit hex key, and uses WEP; this requires the express to use WEP 40bit. Once I'd done that it was ok. I can stream to the express via my router from my iPhone4
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