Capturing HDV worse in FCE than iMovie 08 - why?

I'm just curious why the capturing process of HDV material is worse in Final Cut Express 4.0 than it is in iMovie 08?
The latter has a proper capture window where it's possible to control the camera (forward, rewind etc.), while the former only has a simple "capturing window" that captures whatever is playing from the camera (a Canon HV20 in my case). No controls of rewind etc.?
So - why? Isn't FCE supposed to be a superior product to iMovie 08?

Hi(Bonjour)!
That's the way FCE HD capture HDV because there is a conversion to Apple Intermediate Codec upon capturing and because FCE HD is a stripped down version of Final Cut Pro that allows cam control on capture.
But this behavior is okay as you can position your tape with your camcorder remote and start the capturing process. You'll get a bunch of movie clips, like iMovie.
Michel Boissonneault

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Dark footage is darker in FCE than iMovie HD

using the same dv clips, iMovie HD displays brighter and lighter than FCE. I'm working in FCE and would like to lighten so its easier to see for editing. Suggestions?

Hey there,
Try playing around with the *Brightness and Contrast* filter. You can find it in +Effects > Video Filters > Image Control > Brightness and Contrast.+

Capturing HDV from Canon XH-A1

Hi, I'm new to the Canon XH-A1 and it seems there are a lot of questions out there about capturing HDV footage to FCE... So I'm going to add one more and see if anyone can help me out!
I keep getting this message:
"Capture Presets must have a video or and audio digitizer set to capture. Please change to the desired preset in the Audio/Video Settings."
I can't seem to find out how to do this on my own, and I feel like I am missing an elusive, yet simple, step in the process.
Using MacBook Pro 15" 2.4GHz
Final Cut Express 4
4 pin to 9 pin Firewire
Canon XH-A1
Any thoughts or help would be much appreciated!
Thanks,
Jesse

Easy Set-Up is set to:
AVCHD-Apple Intermediate Codec 1440x1080i60
Canon XH-A1 is set to HDV 60i
I tried setting it to HDV-AIC 1080i60 but then the message is that the hdv deck isn't connected at all. So I tried the AVCHD setting and that led to the other message about A/V settings.
J

PP CS4 won't capture HDV or import m2t files

MacbookPro, OSX 10.6.4
I haven't done a video project for a couple of months, and everything was working then.
But now, I can't import HDV footage captured by OnLocation (.m2t) ("format not supported"), or capture it directly from my video camera (Sony HVR-A1U). There are also no sequence presets for HDV video.
When I try capturing from the camera, my MacbookPro's webcam shows in the previewer, although the controls in the capture window do control the camera (play, stop, rewind etc.). If I go into the capture Settings, no firewire sources are shown.
I can capture HDV from the camera using iMovie (to Quicktime format). In some respects, that is better, since it does HDV scene detection (unlike PP CS4), saving me a little work. But iMovie won't import m2t either so I'll have to find some other way to convert if for use by PP.
I tried reinstalling PP from disks but to no effect. Before I try full unininstall and reinstall , I thought I'd check here to see if anyone has ideas about what is going on with PP.

>no sequence presets for HDV
I don't know if this applys to Mac or not, but I have seen messages saying that PPro will, for some unknown reason, sometimes revert to demo status... which only supports SD video, and nothing that requires any flavor of MPEG

Unable to capture HDV with Sony HDR-FX1 in FCE 4

Hello all,
Been using an HDR-FX1 for a while, shooting mostly DV, and today I began experimenting with HDV. I shot 8 minutes of footage with the camera in HDV mode.
When I setup FCE 4 for Apple Intermediate Codec 1080i60, the capture window doesn't recognize the camera. However, if I set the FX1 to down convert to DV via firewire, FCE recognizes the camera and I'm able to capture.
How do I (or can I) capture HDV into FCE 4 with the FX1? Is there something (a setting perhaps) that I'm missing? Do I need to jump to FC Pro for this?
My system: 1.6 GHz PowerPC G5 (tower), 2 GB RAM, Sony FX1, FCE 4.0, QT 7.3.1
Thanks in advance,
tg

I had a similar issue with iMovie08 import using HDR-HC1... You may want to try this to see if it helps:
1> Close the import app (FCE, in your case)
2> Unplug the FW cable from the camcorder (Most important step)
3> Go into the Sony menu and re-select the HDV settings (explicit HDV, not Auto + Conv off) in the camcorder
4> Re-connect the FW cable, and restart FCE
I use these steps successfully while switching between HDV and DV imports from my camcorder using iMovie 08. Hopefully, this resolves your problem with FCE. Later this weekend, I plan to experiment (for the first time) with FCE HDV import to try and see the export quality difference between FCE and iM08 (which apparently downconverts everything to 540 lines!).

Which Imports Faster HDV or AVCHD in FCE and iMovie?

I'm planning on getting my first HD camcorder and I'm leaning towards the HV-20 or HG-10. I'm leaning towards the HV-20 HDV. Tapes are cheap and a good archive medium and I'm leery of small hard drives being robust. Do AVCHD camcorders use similar drives as the iPod?
I've read AVCHD takes some time to import. Does HDV import faster to AIC?
Does FCE 4 import faster than iMovie 8 for both formats?
Thanks for any advice.
Kelvin

Import speed depends on your computer, but I think the the AVCHD and the HDV transcoding is about the same. It's all being done by QuickTime. AVCHD transfer gives you more options in terms of selecting clips and portions of clip, which is more difficult to do manually off tape. But, as you said, tape is cheap and a good archive medium.

Backing up unedited family video: Should I capture using FCE or iMovie?

I have >50 hours of family video (kids) that I'm not ready to edit yet. I would like to capture the footage in order to back it up because it is priceless. My plan is to buy some large hard disks and save video there, and then when Blu-Ray comes out, I'll buy a Blu-Ray drive and burn Blu-Ray disks as an additional layer of safety.
The captured files will need to be in a format that lasts. As far as I can tell, both FCE and iMovie save captured clips as Quicktime files, which I'm guessing will be around for a while and compatible with future video editing apps. Both FCE and iMovie can import Quicktime clips. I'll be importing the entire hour of video from each tape, in a single capture.
My question is this:
If...
(a) rendering doesn't bother me (like importing clips using iMovie then editing using FCE)
(b) timecode isn't important to me (iMovie doesn't save timecode)
... is there any reason to capture the video using Final Cut instead of iMovie?
The only feature that FCE has that iMovie doesn't, is the ability to detect dropped frames during capture. Are there other reasons?
I like the fact that iMovie splits the capture into individual clips at each break and saves each clip as an individual file. If you're willing to do the work, FCE/FCP can do this to, using DV Start/Stop detect, making the segments into subclips, then exporting them as individual clips. FCP makes this a practical possibility using batch export, whereas FCE lacks that feature and exporting each clip one by one is impractical (I have maybe 200 individual clips per hour of tape). But this is a task I plan for later. Right now my concern is finding the "best way" to capture and save all this video for later editing.
I guess I could also ask, should timecode be important to me? My tapes contain a lot of timecode breaks, so recapturing video from tape automatically isn't likely to work well. I don't know any other reason timecode might be important for consumer-level family video.
PowerMac G5 Quad 2.5 GHz 3GB RAM Mac OS X (10.4.7) NVIDIA GeForce 7800GT

Anthony,
while I fully agree with Al answer, let me add one note in favor of iMovie in answering your original specific question (note: I'm a quite happy user of FCE for all its advantages over iMovie, but for the point I'm going to make).
The basic difference between FCE and iMovie in scene detection (based on the same principle of using date/time breaks as dividers), is that iMovie creates as many media files as clips during capture itself, while FCE Subclips are created AFTER the capture of a unique media file, using DV Start/Stop Detect and Make Subclip, that does NOT splits files.
So you'd better consider now if recovering unused disk space, by trashing unused clips, will be a major issue for you in the future, when you'll be editing your movies. If so, keep in mind that this job is very simple if you captured with iMovie and then imported its clips to FCE (and if you confirm you don't mind about TC and audio rendering), while it is quite complex if you captured directly with FCE, and, I'd say, not recommended unless absolutely needed.
Piero

Why is so hard for FCE or iMovie to read AVCHD files?

I have some AVCHD files (.MTS) on a hard disk. No camera. And no, the directory format has not been preserved. The files were just copied, and renamed for backup purposes. "Log and Transfer..." in FCE gives me an error about the directory structure. And I can't import with iMovie (just won't let me select the files.)
Now, I think I would have a better chance of finding a solution, if I knew why Final Cut Express 4 or iMovie 7.1.1 can only read the AVCHD file format from the camera directly, or when the directories are setup in a particular way.
Why can't it just read the file? Like how any program can read a JPEG without having to plug-in a camera or create a folder called "PRIVATE" or whatever?
I've wasted several hours on this problem today, and the the only conclusion i can come up with is that Apple has some seriously incompetent or just plain lazy engineers.
There must be a proper technical reason... right?

Hi -
Jason Moore3 wrote:
It's just so weird that all FCE and iMovie can read the files - they just require you to "connect the camera". Why is the camera so important to reading the file?
It's not. It's just an easy way to insure that when FCE or iMovie are looking at the file storage directory, FCE or iMovie will see all the files, the metadata, the media, etc.. It also makes for an easier work flow- just plug in the camera, no need to off-load files and remember where the are stored, etc.. And, it helps develop a workflow where people are not just copying the media files to another disk without the metadata, as in your case, or make a mistake and copy the metadata without the media.
Imagine this: three big tractor trailers pull up outside your house loaded with stuff. As you go out to meet them a driver hands you a small package. You open it up, and inside is a complete description of what is packed, how each item is packed, where each item is in the container, and how best to unpack the containers for the easiest installation in your house. That is what the metadata does. Could you unpack the containers without it? Yes. Is it the optimal way? No.
Many threads discuss how it's possible to backup the whole directory and making a disk image and then "tricking" iMovie/FCE into reading the files, which leads me to think that this stupidity is intentional.
This is not a trick. iMovie has the "Archive All" button on the import window. To later access those files you would use the menu File > Import > Camera Archive. In FCE, where one would expect a slightly more computer savvy user, you can use Disk Utility to create a disk image of the contents of the camcorder files, then later, use Log and Transfer from within FCE to import the footage from that disk image.
Someone doesn't want people to actually have a HD video format that is easy to work with (OMG pirates!!) and so it's been crippled to make it a PITA to work with.
Hmmm, well, all you have to do is follow the recommended workflow - connect the camera, import the footage, and edit. FCE and iMovie take care of the footage conversion from AVCHD which is a format incredibly difficult to edit in to a format that allows easy editing, all without user intervention.
The end result is, I can't view my own content.
The system Apple developed of converting AVCHD to either AIC or Pro Res is probably the best way to make the editing process as painless as possible for the end user.
Having said that, Sony Vegas, a windows application, will natively edit AVCHD files, without any conversion. I don't have any experience with it so can't say what the experience is like, but it might be an alternative for you if the iMovie/FCE workflow is not working for you.
Hope this helps.
Message was edited by: Meg The Dog to fix typo

FCE helps making better quality videos than imovie?

I have been using iMovie HD and it looks like its corrupted and cannot re-install it since I lost the disk image.
I am thinking of going to FCE over upgrading to iLife 09.
Does FCE helps making better quality videos than imovie?

Eswar M wrote:
... Does FCE helps making better quality videos than imovie?
if your source is miniDV/Standard - yes.
if your source is 720p or iFrame - no.
in terms of speed and simplicity - iM09 is 'better'.
in terms of options and feature - FCE is by far superior.
note: iM09 is no 'upgrade' of your version, but a from ground off new app.
another note: FCE has a very steem learning curve, but after managing that is a fantastic tool!

Capturing HDV using Adobe Premiere CS3 - more than 20 minutes of video

Hello,
I'm facing a weird situation with Adobe premiere CS3, I use a canon XH-A1 video camera to capture video & recently started using adobe premiere for editing, the issue is if I start to capture HD video for more than 20 minutes, adobe is not able to capture the video (shows a red screen), but it works fine, if I capture upto 20 minutes of video.
I have in the past had to break down a single tape into 3 halves, to successfully capture the video, this is NOT the ideal way, as I have to babysit the video capture, to limit the capture to 20 minutes & restart it.
Has anyone faced this error? Any advice/pointers would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Kalyan.

Could the reason be that you are capturing to an FAT32 format hard drive and it is only allowing you a limited maximum file size? Not sure but I think it is 4GB which would equate to 1/3 of a DV 13GB hour ...or about 20 minutes.
If that is correct, and you should be able to tell because the capture window will display the file size limit as space available during capture, you could do one of two things:
* reformat the drive as NTFS which removes the file size limitation (I have just done this on an external drive for exactly the same reason), but do look up online instructions for this and do it carefully.
* if the material is not long continuous shots of over 20 minutes, switch on Scene Detect during capture; it's wise to cut material up into smaller chunks in any case as huge files become very unwieldy and handling them could slow your machine right down.

Capture HDV without Final Cut?

I am on a shoot in a country that is known for confiscating tapes. Therefore, I need to have a backup of everything I shoot. Unfortunately, my plan of using a Firestore FS-4 failed when it broke 4 days into my shoot. My Mac does not have Final Cut on it and I can't find a way to download it. Is there any way to capture HDV with a program other than Final Cut?

Sorry no.
I am surprised when you say iMovie captures at 1/8 speed.
I haven't tried it with AIC but I have tested FCE and my iMac was able to capture in realtime.
I can't see why iMovie should be so slow. Even if you have a very old, slow computer it shouldn't take more than 30% longer than realtime.
Have you been using iMovie 08? The much more "professional" iMovie 06 can be downloaded free here:-
http://support.apple.com/downloads/iMovieHD6

FCE Vs iMovie. Quality Difference?

hello there.
i'm just wondering whether such emphasised phrases as "high quality effects/transitions/rendering/etc" in the FCE manual or general description mean that, for instance, iMovie's quality, as far as rendering, effects and transitions are concerned, is worse. am i correct in understanding so?..
the problem i am facing is that, although i'm in the middle of switching to FCE from iMovie for doing all/most of my video work, i still find that i've got much-much more effects and transitions in iMovie than in FCE, due to having 7 of the 10 Slick-GeeThree packages. so what i'm thinking is that i could share the work between the two applications, using the best features of each to the benefit of my projects.
however... the thought that suddenly occurred to me was - would the quality of my video footage suffer in iMovie? or has iMovie got the same quality parameters as FCE?

thanks for your replies.
i don't think i'll be having any problems with audio, as most of my projects are music videos, which means i won't be using the sound of the original footage: the soundtrack is added separately.
as for the quality of some effects. yes, that's exactly what i meant. the captured video looks great in iMovie. but as soon as i add such effects as colour correction, for instance, or saturation, the sharpness of the picture disappears and it starts to look edgy. for example, if it's a human face, the original oval curve of a cheek or a chin will look slightly saw-edged, i.e. i can spot square pixels...
which is why i thought that perhaps the "high quality" bit in the FCE official description meant that i won't be encountering similar problems in FInal Cut?

Follow-up question to FCE vs. iMovie

When I asked yesterday for a comparison of FCE to iMovie, and how they were different, I realized what I really I want to know is why FCE is considered better than iMovie. And what can FCE do that iMovie can't do? Thanks.

Please don't start another thread on the same topic when you have one that you haven't responded to.
The question is mostly answered in the thread that was linked in your original post. What about the discussion in that linked thread is not clear?
http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=13175828#13175828
x

More about FCE vs iMovie import

Everyone should remember that FCE originally only supported HDV. And, as Steve writes in his book, HDV is always RECORDED as 1080i by both FCE and iM. Makes no difference what you set you camera too.
There are no 1080P settings for FCE -- only 1080I and 720P. This is the world of HDV.
When FCE first supported AVCHD it only did 1440x1080i. Then they added support for 1920x1080i.
Steve found that 1080p30 AVCHD was converted to 1080i60 AIC. He assumed FCE missed the fact the video was PROGESSIVE. I think he mat be wrong. I think FCE saw 1080p30 and said "I don't support 1080p30" so I'll convert it to INTERLACE when I compress it to AIC.
So I Goggled MPEG-2 and learned that progressive has a HEADER per FRAME while interlace a HEADER per FIELD. WOW!
That means when P becomes I the number of Headers doubles. Since each Header is a bunch of bits, the I file must become larger -- without any increase in image quality.
This may explain why you found 20% more bits but no difference in picture quality. What do you think?
Can you give us the data rates for 1080i60 for FCE and iM. This is where yu can really see if there is any quality difference. If the bit rates are the the same then the video is the quality is the same.
And, can you post the picture that you used to compare FCE vs iMovie. I'd like to see if I can SEE any difference.
PS: does imakefullhd support 10.6 yt?

Both 1080i50 and 1080p25 are RECORDED on AVCHD as 1080i50 at 25fps.
Although this is different behavior from the Region 60 Canon's, it is not incorrect. FCE and FCP will convert this to 1080i50 AIC with a frame rate of 25fps. The difference is that the video SHOT at 25p will never show combing!
How does iM09 convert (Optimize) them to AIC?
Both 1080i50 and 1080p25 are converted to 1080i50 AIC.
A) If you add a Swap FX to 1080i50 (shot at 50i) and export as 1080i50 you'll see NO combing because iM sees the 50i and deinterlaces.
That's not what happens! Adding a Swap FX to 1080i50 (shot at 50i) and exporting as 1080i50 you WILL see combing because iM did not deinterlace. This indicates that iM09 is "seeing" the video as PROGRESSIVE and passing all 1080-lines through.
Either iM09 is ignoring the QT 50i tag or it is checking the 25fps tag and calling it 25p or it is ignoring both QT flags and working internally with all 1080-lines -- just like iM08 and iM09 v8.0.0. I suspect that Apple only changed the Region 60 code when they released 8.0.1.
B) If you add a Swap FX to 1080i50 (shot at 25p) and export as 1080i50 you'll see NO combing because no combing is possible with Progressive video.
PS1: what will FCE do with 1080p25? Since the AVCHD recording claims it is 1080i50 it will pass it through as 1080i50 AIC just as does iM09. This will make no problems for FCE.
PS2: Just as a reminder: 1080i60 and 1080i60/24p are recorded as AVCHD at 1080i60. Both FCE and iM09 pass both through as 1080i60 AIC. However, 1080p25 is recorded as AVCHD at 1080p25. iM09 passes this through as 1080p25 AIC. FCE converts it to 1080i50 AIC.

HDV and AIC has changes iMovie 10 to iMovie 11

This is baffling me .. Maybe its happened after I upgraded to iMovie 11. Maybe not - Im hoping someone at Apple is reading this ..
Firstly we use a Sony Z1E camera - Normally we use FCP to get in the digital files .. What we do is as follows
1. Capture all to the memory card in the camera
2. Use clipwrap to pull the files into the harddrive - Just re-wrap not change anything faster than log and transfer
We end up with Apple HDV files - They are seen fine in FCP ad also were in iMovie .. I shall explain
So here is what is happening
Over the last week - I have brought in some of the HDV files into iMovie - Whats interesting is that they are seen in iMovie as HDV files (Not Apple Intermediate Codec) - Great - They are at the best quality possible.
However now whats happening is when I move files into iMovie they are seen as AIC files - Somehow iMovie 11 is transcoding them from HDV to AIC -- This seems to have happened when I upgraded to iMovie 11 (I did that last week) - it seems to be happening after the upgrade
Anyone got any ideas on how to keep them as HDV -- (AIC just pops down the quality) as we have FCP on our machines we can then output in HDV again from iMovie -- Its just a really quick way of us editing .
Suggestions welcome -- Maybe there is a setting that Im missing - But I dont see how i got HDV files in before to iMovie and they were left as HDV but now they are transcoded. Perhaps I should reinstall the FCP onto the machine again - So that it goes on after the iMovie upgrade.
I would really like to maintain HDV as the codec in the files and not transcode them - It really pulls down the quality which is especially noticable as noise on dark colours in lower light .
Odd but Im totally baffled.
thanks

Hi
I have noticed the same thing and here is how you "fix the problem"
1. Start a new event and import 1 HDV file and that will be converted to AIC
Let´s call the event TEST. When that is done close iMovie
2 Go to where you have your iMovie events folder and open the folder and in there you will find your TEST event, open that also and there you will see your imported HDV/AIC file.
Delete the file and leave everything else in there as it is.
3 Move your HDV files that you want in the event (Copy and paste) in to the same folder and then close the folder
4 Start iMovie and when it starts it will say something like that it is creating thumbnails or whatever.
The point is that now you event will be native HDV and not converted to AIC
Good luck
Cheers
Hans

Capturing HDV worse in FCE than iMovie 08 - why?

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