Changes to [No Paragraph Style] causing unwanted style overrides

Hi fellow InDesigners
I'm using InDesign CS6. I'm working with long documents that were originally created in previous versions (CS4 and possibly earlier). My standard workflow for these jobs is to do the bulk of the text formatting in a newly created, bare-bones, single column document. First, I load the paragraph and character styles from the template, and when I'm done I copy and paste the formatted text back into the template for final layout and typesetting. This used to work fine in CS4, but in CS6, all my paragraphs show the plus sign in the Paragraph Styles panel, indicating that they have been overridden. They should be identical, since I imported the styles from one file to the other. The overrides include drop cap alignment, and even more obscure things like 'IdeoSpaceBehavior' and 'Diacritic Positioning'.
It seems likely to me that this problem is due to Adobe having changed the definition of the mysteriously ubiquitous '[No Paragraph Style]' style between versions. The template file has carried over the definition from CS4, but the newly created working files have the new definition, and since [No Paragraph Style] is not included when importing styles from one document to another, the inconsistency remains. Copying and pasting text with no overrides in one document, shows overrides in the other.
So the simplest solution I can think of, would be to change the [No Paragraph Style] in the template to match the definition of new CS6 documents. Is this even possible? My Googling thus far suggests that [No Paragraph Style] is pretty much untouchable.
Is there nothing for it but to create the template files again as new documents in CS6?

No worries Michael. Yes, I vaguely remember the change too.
My understanding is, [No Paragraph Style] is very much a style—a paradoxically named style to be sure, but a style nonetheless. Check out the [Basic Paragraph] style definition by double clicking on it in the Paragraph Styles panel. It's style definition is: '[No Paragraph Style] + next: [Same style]'. That's it. Minion Pro 12 point, with auto leading—and every other conceivable paragraph attribute—all handled by [No Paragraph Style]. Adobe needed some defaults, and that's what [No Paragraph Style] is—just a default style. You can never escape it either, since every style, no matter what it's based on, has [No Paragraph Style] as its most senior ancestor.
So that's essentially my problem. Adobe has, in their wisdom, changed the [No Paragraph Style] style between versions, so that a document originally created in an earlier version and a document created in CS6 have different [No Paragraph Style] settings. I'm pretty confident this is the cause of my problems.
Lots of my paragraph styles inherit from other styles. Why would I not want that? My custom 'Paragraph' style has lots of other styles based on it—from typesetting variations, to quotes, lists, etc. But the 'Paragraph' style itself is based on [No Paragraph Style]. As I said, you can't really escape [No Paragraph Style].

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I'm all over paragraph styles and next styles option, all good, sweet. Love em but...
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Eugene Tyson wrote:
For Paragraph Style A go to the Keep Options in the style, and select to Start on Next Page or Next Column or Next Frame - whichever suits.
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If the content being flowed-in is correctly tagged with style names, then this would work.
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HTH
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Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices
Message was edited by: peter at knowhowpro

Problem changing and creating paragraph styles in Pages

When using paragraph styles I come up against several problems that I haven't been able to figure out with the help menu:
1. When I change a para with the style list it doesn't change the para to the chosen parameters. It changes for instance the font but not the size. How do I make sure that the chosen text gets changed completely?
2. When I want to create a new style from selection it does not create a style that turns up in future lists. I only get to choose what is already somewhere in the text I am writing and what seems to be a default list that shows up with every new document. To change to something else I have to find a text that has the format I want, copy a piece of it, put it into the text I am working on and then try and change the paragraph style. How can I make sure that I have the styles I want at my disposal whatever I am working on? Can I somehow edit the choices in the style drawer?
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ravenowl wrote:
When using paragraph styles I come up against several problems that I haven't been able to figure out with the help menu:
1. When I change a para with the style list it doesn't change the para to the chosen parameters. It changes for instance the font but not the size. How do I make sure that the chosen text gets changed completely?
Double click on the style name in the styles drawer to completely force the style onto the selected text. This will however eliminate any bolding, italics, underlining etc.
2. When I want to create a new style from selection it does not create a style that turns up in future lists. I only get to choose what is already somewhere in the text I am writing and what seems to be a default list that shows up with every new document. To change to something else I have to find a text that has the format I want, copy a piece of it, put it into the text I am working on and then try and change the paragraph style. How can I make sure that I have the styles I want at my disposal whatever I am working on? Can I somehow edit the choices in the style drawer?
To add a style to the Styles Drawer, format your text, then click on the little red triangle next to the style in the drawer and choose New from selection giving it a name.
You can also change the name of the style by right clicking on the name and selecting Rename. This is not always available as some names are reserved.
Each document has its own definitions of the styles. You can import Styles from other documents:
+Menu > Format > Import Styles… > Browse to a document with the styles and select those you want to copy over+
3. When looking at the help menu, this is the beginning of an instruction:
+To apply a style to one or more paragraphs, select the paragraphs you want to change, or select an entire text box, table, table cell, or shape that contains text. Click the Paragraph Styles button in the format bar, and then choose the style you want to apply+
Now, where do I find the paragraph styles button
It is the reversed blue P on the Toolbar, also +Menu > View > Show Styles Drawer+
and where is the format bar?
I assume you are referring to the toolbar at the top of the window.
I clicked my way through numerous drop down menus but haven't found what this is referring to.
Would be grateful for any hints, and please keep your explanations simple enough. I need instructions for dummies Thanks in advance!
I suggest you download and read the Pages09_UserGuide.pdf under the Help menu.
Peter

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Do you use any font management tools? Most of the times they do more harm than good (but i am aware that it's a necessary evil for the most part).
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Try cleaning the font cache first:
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have a look here also:
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Message was edited by:
Vishnu Reddy

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== This happened ==
Every time Firefox opened
== upon install of FF

I knew it was something incredibly obvious that I was missing.
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Thanks so much
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text below the **** line is the css code:
/*Created with Adobe RoboHelp 9.*/
/* Document Defaults */
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color: #0000CC;
a:hover {
color: #CC0033;
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a:visited {
color: #9999CC;
font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
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font-style: normal;
font-weight: bold;
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margin-bottom: 0em;
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margin-bottom: 0em;
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white-space: normal;
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margin-left: 5em;
margin-top: 0em;
margin-bottom: 0em;
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margin-top: 0em;
margin-bottom: 0em;
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white-space: normal;
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font-style: normal;
font-weight: normal;
margin-left: 10em;
margin-top: 0em;
margin-bottom: 0em;
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text-indent: 0em;
white-space: normal;
text-decoration: none;
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x-lvl-2-type: lower-alpha;
x-lvl-2-format: "<x>&c";
x-lvl-2-margin: 20px;
x-lvl-3-type: lower-roman;
x-lvl-3-format: "<x>&c";
x-lvl-3-margin: 40px;
x-lvl-4-type: decimal;
x-lvl-4-format: "&o<x>&c";
x-lvl-4-margin: 60px;
x-lvl-5-format: "&o<x>&c";
x-lvl-5-margin: 80px;
x-lvl-6-type: lower-roman;
x-lvl-6-format: "&o<x>&c";
x-lvl-6-margin: 100px;
x-lvl-8-type: lower-alpha;
x-lvl-8-margin: 140px;
x-lvl-7-format: "<x>.";
x-lvl-7-margin: 120px;
x-level-count: 9;
x-lvl-9-type: lower-roman;
x-lvl-9-margin: 160px;
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font-weight: bold;
margin-bottom: 14pt;
margin-left: 0pt;
page-break-after: avoid;
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background-color: #a3a5aa;
margin-top: 5pt;
margin-right: 256pt;
font-family: "Arial Black", sans-serif;
p {
font-size: 11pt;
margin-top: 0.5pt;
margin-left: 0px;
font-family: Arial, sans-serif;
text-align: justify;
margin-bottom: 5pt;
margin-right: 256pt;
table.TableTitle {
x-1st-row: 1;
x-1st-row-name: t1st;
font-size: 11pt;
font-weight: normal;
table.TableTitle tr.t1st td {
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 11pt;
font-weight: bold;
background-color: #c0c0c0;
table.TableContent {
font-size: 10pt;
font-weight: bold;
background-color: #c4c4ff;
table.SimpleGridBlue {
padding: 0px;
x-border-spacing: 0px;
x-row-pat-1: 1;
x-row-pat-1-name: t1Row;
x-row-pat-count: 2;
x-row-pat-2: 1;
x-row-pat-2-name: t2Row;
border-left-style: Solid;
border-left-width: 1px;
border-left-color: #4F81BD;
border-top-style: Solid;
border-top-width: 1px;
border-top-color: #4F81BD;
table.SimpleGridBlue td {
padding-left: 10px;
padding-right: 10px;
padding-top: 0px;
padding-bottom: 0px;
table.SimpleGridBlue tr.t1Row td {
font-family: "Times New Roman";
font-size: 12pt;
border-right-style: Solid;
border-right-width: 1px;
border-right-color: #4F81BD;
border-bottom-style: Solid;
border-bottom-width: 1px;
border-bottom-color: #4F81BD;
table.SimpleGridBlue tr.t2Row td {
border-right-style: Solid;
border-right-width: 1px;
border-right-color: #4F81BD;
border-bottom-style: Solid;
border-bottom-width: 1px;
border-bottom-color: #4F81BD;
p.Style2 {
x-next-class: ;
x-next-type: p;
H4 {
font-weight: bold;
margin-bottom: 14pt;
margin-left: 0pt;
page-break-after: avoid;
font-size: 11pt;
margin-top: 0.5pt;
x-next-class: ;
x-next-type: P;
background-color: #c0c0c0;
margin-right: 256pt;
table.Style3 {
font-size: 11pt;
font-weight: bold;
.Style4 {
color: #000000;
margin-left: 0em;
margin-top: 0em;
margin-bottom: 0em;
text-align: left;
text-indent: 0em;
white-space: normal;
font-size: 11pt;
font-weight: bold;
font-style: normal;
text-decoration: none;
table.SimpleGridBlack {
padding: 0px;
border-top: Solid 1px #000000;
border-left: Solid 1px #000000;
x-border-spacing: 0px;
x-row-pat-1: 1;
x-row-pat-1-name: t1Row;
x-row-pat-count: 2;
x-row-pat-2: 1;
x-row-pat-2-name: t2Row;
table.SimpleGridBlack td {
padding-left: 10px;
padding-right: 10px;
padding-top: 0px;
padding-bottom: 0px;
table.SimpleGridBlack tr.t1Row td {
border-right-style: Solid;
border-right-width: 1px;
border-right-color: #000000;
border-bottom-style: Solid;
border-bottom-width: 1px;
border-bottom-color: #000000;
font-family: "Times New Roman";
font-size: 12pt;
table.SimpleGridBlack tr.t2Row td {
border-right-style: Solid;
border-right-width: 1px;
border-right-color: #000000;
border-bottom-style: Solid;
border-bottom-width: 1px;
border-bottom-color: #000000;
rh-list.Style5 {
x-lvl-1-format: "<x>&c";
x-lvl-2-type: lower-alpha;
x-lvl-2-format: "<x>&c";
x-lvl-2-margin: 20px;
x-lvl-3-type: lower-roman;
x-lvl-3-format: "<x>&c";
x-lvl-3-margin: 40px;
x-lvl-4-type: decimal;
x-lvl-4-format: "&o<x>&c";
x-lvl-4-margin: 60px;
x-lvl-5-format: "&o<x>&c";
x-lvl-5-margin: 80px;
x-lvl-6-type: lower-roman;
x-lvl-6-format: "&o<x>&c";
x-lvl-6-margin: 100px;
x-lvl-8-type: lower-alpha;
x-lvl-8-margin: 140px;
x-lvl-7-format: "<x>.";
x-lvl-7-margin: 120px;
x-level-count: 9;
x-lvl-9-type: lower-roman;
x-lvl-9-margin: 160px;

Changing font without changing size with paragraph stylesheet

I need to change the font of many paragraphs without affecting different text sizes within the paragraphs.
I have a huge document...45,000 phone listings/400 pages. Each business listing (as opposed to residential) has a unique text string after the phone number ( |||B ) which will eventually be deleted. I want to do a Find/Change on that text string and change the entire paragraph it's in to a different font without impacting the different font sizes within the paragraph. But when I try to set parameters for the stylesheet, I can't just change the font, I have to change the size also.
Using a character stylesheet won't work, as it would only change the font of the text string itself.
Is this impossible using style sheets? Can it be done with a script? I've never used InDesign scripts so I'd need detailed instructions if that's the answer. Or am I doomed to manually change the font on 3,100 paragraphs in my document?
Thanks to all you keeners out there for any help you can offer.
Patti

P Spier wrote:
I'm a little confused.
Do you currently have paragraph styles defined? I would probably approach this by defining a paragraph style for the main listings. You can do that by selecting some type and holding the Alt (Opt) key while clicking the new style icon on the panel, or by selecting new style from the panel menu. That style should be what is applied to all the text to start.
Define a second style for the business listings. You can base this on the first style, and change only the font. You don't need to enter a new size unless you wish to do so. Any attributes you don't change in the new style definition will be preserved, and will change to match the base style if you edit it.
Do your find/change and in the change format dialog specify the new paragraph style, but leave the actual change field blank. This can be done a plain text search. You will need two passes, one to format the paragraphs, and one (with the change format field cleared) to remove the suffix.
A GREP expression would probably work, too, but my GREP is rudimentary and I can't seem to find an expression to find |||B -- my attempt was (.)|||B$ which I thought would find any character followed by |||B at the end of the paragraph, and I would replace with $1 to preserve the character before and delete the suffix at the same time as changing the format, but it's picking up all sorts of stuff in the middle of the paragraph, so I suspect the pipes have a special meaning.
Character styles should be used to change only things that are special and need to be different from the standard paragraph definition, not for formatting the entire paragraph.
Yes, I have paragraph styles defined. I used them, along with a bunch of other unique text strings, to create separate paragraphs of each type of info in each listing, and then style them. I then used the same search strings to remove the paragraph breaks (and the search strings) to put the listings back to together into a single paragraph (but you have to break the link to the style before you remove paragraph breaks or your text will reformat itself back to the style on the previous paragraph.
The main problem is that I neglected to make a special find/change on the address and phone number to make them bold. Now I have 48,000 paragraphs (listings) with nothing but that |||B search string at the end of each of the business listings. And it took me two full work days just to get to this point, so I really don't want to go back to square one at this point.
I know this is hard to describe and understand. I really appreciate your help though!!

Changes to [No Paragraph Style] causing unwanted style overrides

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