Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine problem-24 vs. 23.98 + sound issue

Hello again folks,
Trying to figure this all out, and thanks in advance for your input; this forum is amazing and has been invaluable!
I've been studying the FCP and CT pdf manuals and lots of links/threads here in the forum to get the proper workflow, have tried it all out, and ran into some problems:
Need to convert--sorry--REVERSE TELECINE--my captured DV 24p (captured at 29.97) footage into 23.98fps to edit in 23.98. Copied some media files so as not to ruin the originals, chose them from project bins, and sent them to CT using FCP'S "Tools>Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine" (super easy and feeling overconfident). When I checked the footage, two things were odd:
1) My new frame rate was at "24" not "23.98", which I believe I want to be working in in order to achieve my desired finished product (I'm sure I read this in the forum and links, does it matter?), and
2) for kicks, while there in Tools, I tried one clip with "Tools>Remove Advance Pulldown", which did result in the 23.98fps.
3) about 6 seconds into the new 23.98fps clip the sound disappears (I checked and the original clips have good sound throughout).
Any thoughts out there on this. Should I be reversing telecine from within CT (by importing clips), and not from FCP's easy Tools>Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine.
Any links or thoughts to clarify will be received with great admiration and thanks!
Greg
Macbook Pro Mac OS X (10.4.8) FCP ver.5.1.2. and CT ver.3.1.2
Macbook Pro Mac OS X (10.4.8)
Macbook Pro Mac OS X (10.4.8)

We'll need some more details. Where is your footage coming from? Was it originally HDCAM and downconverted to DV? Was the audio recorded straight to tape or was it synced in post? Is it consistently one or two frames out of sync or does it drift out of sync? How was it digitized? If you open the clip in Cinema Tools and step through it frame by frame do you see any interlaced frames?
There are dozens of things that can go wrong with this sort of process, so it's important to get really detailed.

Similar Messages

Setting default cinema tools reverse telecine

Does anyone know of a way to set the default cinema tools reverse telecine to the following?
*Field 1 - Field 2*
*Style 1*
DD
I want to use the "Tools -> Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine" functionality from within Final Cut but for some reason Cinema Tools doesn't remember the settings above as the default. I noticed that it does remember the "capture mode" settings (Field 1 only, field 2 only, field 1 - field 2, field 2 - field 1), but I can't get it to remember the settings in the "Field" section. Does it even do this?
I'm shooting 24p on a Sony HDV camera and it resets the cadence on every new scene, so every clip begins with three progressive frames and then follows with two interlaced frames. I capture to Apple Intermediate Codec 60i. I've made a Compressor droplet to automatically remove the telecine but sometimes it messes up and a few resulting clips have interlacing erratically throughout. So, Cinema Tools is the best bet if I can get it to work in a batch process instead of clip-by-clip for hundreds of clips!
Any and all help would be greatly appreciated!

We'll need some more details. Where is your footage coming from? Was it originally HDCAM and downconverted to DV? Was the audio recorded straight to tape or was it synced in post? Is it consistently one or two frames out of sync or does it drift out of sync? How was it digitized? If you open the clip in Cinema Tools and step through it frame by frame do you see any interlaced frames?
There are dozens of things that can go wrong with this sort of process, so it's important to get really detailed.

FCS2 Reverse Telecine problem with HG10

I have been using the three fingered salute version (Log and Transfer, followed by Compressor's "reverse telecine") of getting 24P files from my HG10 into FCS2. It's worked well with smaller files (a few GB), but I just tried the technique with two very large video files. The Log and Transfer operation works fine. They're approximately 1 hour each, and are around 50GB in size each. But when I try the reverse telecine approach, Compressor seems to just flat-out die out from under me on both files. No error messages. I looked in Console, but nothing there either. It just stops processing, deletes the partially encoded file, and just sits there.
There was a discussion here about this problem prior to the 6.0.1 update, but nothing since.
Again, this works fine for me on little files (a minute or two in duration).
Is there an alternate way of doing the reverse telecine on these large files? Maybe Cinema Tools?

I have never used Compressor for this as Cinema Tools has been rock solid for me every time.

Reverse telecine problems with 24pA setting

Just bought a sony v1u and shot with the 24pA setting. i brought it into FCP with the 1080i60 Easy Setup. Dragged the source file into cinematools to get the reverse telecine and it is grayed out. When i tried a batch reverse telecine, it said something about temporal compression and error. any ideas?

I don't believe you can use Cinema Tools to Reverse Telecine HDV material...
Patrick

What is a packet problem? I'm having sound issues.

I'm at my wit's end. I am having sound issues. I've run diagnostic tests and everything comes back as OK, but it's not OK! Something somewhere is messed up and I can't figure it out.
I have been to the help rooms on paltlak and opened up support tickets and everything they told me to try has not helped. They suggested I change the sound tuning on my chat program, change exceptions on my firewall, uninstall and reinstall chat program, uninstall and install earlier version, download drivers for sound card, and etc. Nothing is helping this problem.
Someone mentioned that it may be router problems or packet problems. I'm not sure what that means, and that is why I'm on this forum asking for help. I have no other sound problems on my computer. My music and videos play fine. It's just when I'm in a voice enabled chat, do I experience these problems, or if I'm on a website that has videos, the video will not load all the way, so I only get 30 seconds of a video. Does anyone know what could be causing this?
I have used this chat service for over 5 years and up until a week or so ago, it worked fine. I did a complete reformat of my computer in hopes that it would help, but I'm still having the same problems. I lose sound within 5 seconds of entering the chat room. Then it takes between 3-5 minutes before I hear sound again, but then I only hear it for a few seconds. Then it goes away for another few minutes. Repeat. Over and over again.
I'm running Windows Vista on an Acer Aspire 380 with wireless cable modem. I keep losing sound in any voice/sound enabled chat and on any site that has videos. I have 1gig of ram, 300 gb hard drive, 32 bit operating system, 2 processor cores, directx version 9, realtek sound card. Everything is up to date, and firmware is up to date. My speed test is: download: 6.162 mbps and upload: 926 kbps.
When I do the ipconfig/all, it shows
Tunnel adapter local aera connection* 6: Media State: Media disconnected
description: teredo tunneling pseudo-interface
dhcp enabled: no
autoconfiguration enabled: yes
I don't know if this has anything to do with my sound issues on the chat program or not. ??
Also shows:
node type: hybrid
dhcp enabled: yes
autoconfiguration enabled: yes
default gateway: 192.168.1.1
dhcp server: 192.168.1.1
netbios over tcpip: enabled
If by chance it is a packet problem, how do I fix that?

Hi. Thanks for the quick reply. Yes, it just started recently and after not being able to fix the problem, I completely reformatted my computer and started with a fresh slate, but still having the same problems. The videos will not continue to load. They get less than half way and then just totally stop loading, therefore I only get to view the video up to the point where it stops loading. I just took your advice and I disconnected the router and connected my computer directly to the modem and my sound issues were fixed. I went into the voice chat and had sound for over 10 minutes (and then I disconnected) instead of the usual 5 seconds that it'd been. So is it the linksys that is causing this? If so, how can I fix it? Thank-you. Message Edited by nightrider7000 on 01-22-2008 11:34 AM
Message Edited by nightrider7000 on 01-22-2008 12:44 PM

TRIED EVERYTHING/NO LUCK with Reverse Telecine in Cinema Tools 29.97 to 24p

I read an article that was on Ken Stones site. It said that, basically you CAN'T
take a clip that is at 29.97 and has 3:2 pulldown in it, and get it to actual 24 progressive frames? Is this true? Has ANYONE out there actually removed pulldown CORRECTLY with footage shot at 24, then transferred to 29.97?
I've tried all options with Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine, and I always wind up with some interlacing.
My QT clip has a 3:2 cadence, one can frame through it and see this.
Am I missing something here? Does anyone know a procedure that can get me to 24 progressive frames. Is there a 3rd party piece of software out there?
Any relies appreciated.
G5 2.3 early Mac OS X (10.4.7) Cinema Tools V 3.1.1
G5 2.3 Mac OS X (10.3.8) Cinema Tools V3.1.1 QT V7.1.2 FCP V5.1.1

Well then, that is your problem. Those aren't reverse telecin-able. What are reversable are DV tapes that you captured at 29.97...in the DV/NTSC codec.
Are you working with Digital Intermediates? Or footage telecined to tape?
Typical Telecine to Tape workflow is:
Telecine to DVCAM
Lab provides DVCAM and Flex file to you.
Open Cinema Tools. Import Flex file and export batch Capture list.
Import batch capture list into FCP.
Batch Capture the DV footage.
Reverse telecine the footage with Cinema Tools.
Edit.
What exactly are you doing? Where did these files come from? What is your workflow?
Shane

Reverse Telecine Nightmare - 16mm - Please help...

I´m working for the first time in Brazilian Cinema as a assistent editor and i`m having a serious problem with Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine.
I´ve read the manual but I can´t get any solution.
We shoot the movie in 16mm with an Aaton minima camera.
The telecine was made to dv tapes.
I´ve created a database in Cinema tools with the flex files, exported a xml to final cut and batch captured.
My problem is:
When I use the Cinema tools reverse telecine and open my clip in Final Cut (6.0.3), it still contain fields and I can´t read the letters of the window burn
The field pattern is A2 B2 C1 D1 D3 -- Field 2 only as we can read in the manual.
I´m reversing for 23.98 fps
I´ve tried with the "Standard upper/lower" checked and unchecked with no positive results... When I open in the Final Cut, in a 23.98 project, and see the clip
frame by frame, I can´t read the letters and there is fields... I´ve tried the other options too... But the pull down is always there
In page 132 of Cinema tools manual,you can read in the "Check telecine results" session ---> "each letter should be clearly legible..."
That´s my nightmare... What should I do? Can anyone give me a solution for this problem??
Thanks for reading...

Ugh - single field telecine.
I've never had to put single field video through Cinema Tools so I shouldn't be commenting - but I happen to know that another guy with a -similar- but different problem with single field telecine video in CT set his field dominance to F1-F2, and got usable video. Thought I'd mention it.
See here: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1563046&tstart=13
Single field telecine isn't that complicated, it should be easy for CT to just remove the extra field from the sequence. Make sure you're starting on an A frame (or field, in your case, I suppose.)
Again, never done single field video in CT, so feel free to ignore me completely.

24p reverse telecine

I used to be able to reverse telecine 24p footage from HVX200 camera but now its not working and people are now telling me that it only works with 24pa footage. I used 24p workflow in the past and it worked fine. What has changed? I think I used the 24p workflow before final cut supported 24pa. I already have a whole project shot in 24p and need to reverse telecine.

workflow:
shoot with HVX200 in 1080i/24p
import/transfer P2 files into FCP
Reverse Telecine to work with 24p version of footage in FCP without interlaced frames.
problem: "cinema tools reverse telecine" under the tools menu does not work as it did with same workflow in previous versions.
Ok, so it appears that the "pro-apps update 2008-05" (which updates among other things FCP to 6.0.5) is the problem. I have decided to work in 6.0.1 where the workflow works fine. Here is my troubleshooting log:
I used FCP remover to uninstall the entire studio
installed 5.0.2 and received corrupted file message when attempting to import P2 file
upgraded to 5.0.4, P2 files imported (no log and transfer in this version) successfully with a DVCPRO HD 1080i60 compression at 29.97 fps. I applied the "Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine" tool to a selected file (one of the same files I have been working with sense the beginning of this issue and will continue to use through out this troubleshooting) and it successfully processed the file resulting in a 24fps clip with no interlaced frames. YEAH!
I used software update as far as I could with this version and the workflow was still successful.
Installed 6.0.1 from CD, the workflow was still successful except the P2 files where coming in with a compression of DVCPROHD 1080p30. I don't see a problem with this. The resulting file was still 24p without any interlaced frames. And this version also has the log and transfer feature.
I ran software update and installed "Pro-Apps update 2008-05" and "Cinema Tools update 4.2.1". So I am working in FCP 6.0.5 and the problem starts. "Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine" just simply does not work. Nor does a reverse telecine work if I go directly through Cinema tools and bypass FCP with the imported P2 files (now quicktime).
I uninstall with FCS remover again.
I install 6.0.1 from the CD and perform the "Pro-Apps update 2008-05" only which takes me to 6.0.5 again. Still no good.
I uninstall with FCS remover again.
I install 6.0.1 from the CD. I don't do any updates and the workflow works great! So I will atleast do the log, transfer, and reverse telecine in this version. In the future I will shoot in 24pa, for that seems to work fine with the same workflow in 6.0.5.
I am going to leave this post as un-resolved sense Apple still needs to fix this in future versions.

Reverse Telecine Question

I'm testing "Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine" from the FCP Tools menu with NTSC DV media and related 35mm Telecine Logs (flxs). The resulting 24fps QTs show proper KeyCode info in overlays and original lab burn-ins but Video TC looses sync between overlays and burn-ins and only catch up at frame 00 of each second. I couldn't find any info about this in FCP's or Cinema Tools help files. Somehow it feels like I'm doing something wrong.
Video TC looses sync after reverse telecine while Keycode remains consistent? Any pointers are appreciated. Thanks a lot!

The video TC burn-in is 30 fps, since there was no 24-frame video to reference during telecine. The keycode is, of course, 24 fps. You now only have 24 frames of video, so the keycode is going to work right, but the video timecode rate has been converted to 24fps. You have two options. You can just ignore the difference in the frame counts (since it matches up on the 00 then you know you're fine) or you can work with a 30 fps timecode rate. Even though there are only 24 frames of video per second, the count will go up to 29. It will just skip numbers along the way in order to get there. That way it should match up with your burned-in timecode, and the actual timecode on the tapes. I think the best way to do that is to start by creating a Cinema Tools database that has the default video TC rate set to 30 NDF. Then do a batch reverse telecine on your clips from within the Cinema Tools application. I think that will create video clips with a 30 fps TC rate.

I give. No success with reverse telecine...

Here's the scenario...
I have footage that was shot on Super-8 and telecined to Mini-DV. I have no flex file, etc., and no specific cadence information.
One would assume that I could select an arbitrary frame and simple rotate through the obvious permutations (<F1-F1|F2-F1> <AA|BB|etc>) and end up with a properly reversed 24fps clips.
However, even the best results still exhibit interlacing artifacts every three frames.
I've seen it mentioned elsewhere that others have the same issue.
I'm placed a sample clip at...
http://nedron.net/av/revtc/00.dv
This is from the "master" Mini-DV tape and is about 25 meg.
Anyone with a broadband connection want to take a look and see if they can correctly reverse the telecine on this? Hopefully, using something relatively common like Cinema Tools or After Effects, etc. My hardware options are pretty limited for the time being.
-David

Try using the reverse telecine in Final Cut: Tools->Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine. I went through this with 1080i footage, not DV. Couldn't get a clean reverse out of CT directly. But this seemed to work. I suspect that FCP understands the pulldown correctly and then tells CT how to do it. But try it and see if it works for you. Just make sure you copy your original file and work on the copy in FCP, because CT will overwrite the file and there are no warnings or options. You should see the property of the clip change in FCP from 29.97 to 23.976. Then go through frame-by-frame and see if it worked.
Good luck!

FCP asking for Cinema tools application

I am trying to reverse telecine a couple of clips and FCP is asking to choose the Cinema tools application.
I selected the clips then clicked >Tools > Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine.
After this i get a pop up box asking to locate the Application.
As far as i am aware Cinema Tools does not operate outside of FCP so should i select FCP as the application?
Cheers Kev

It is part of FInal Cut Studio - of which Final Cut Pro is also a part. If you look in your applications folder, and you did a complete Final Cut Studio install, you should see Cinema Tool.app.
Have you move Final Cut Pro out of the Applications folder, or rearranged or renamed the apps from where they were originally installed?
Did you choose not to install Cinema Tools from the Final Cut Studio Install discs?
MtD

Reverse Telecine vs. Convert EDL

First posted this in the FCP discussion forum and didn't receive a response. Admittedly, I didn't wait very long.
Simple question, long explanation. Apologies in advance.
Basically, a new client of mine shot a project on film, had the footage telecined without sound and synced the sound himself to help whomever was going to cut it. My issue is this, he synced everything before reversing the telecine on the clips, so everyting is still 29.97. The project will eventually go out to film, so a 23.98 EDL will have to be created.
In past projects, when I received telecined footage I'd reverse the telecine before syncing sound, and my EDL's have always been fine. My question is this, if I reverse telecine now, is his work syncing sound in 29.97 lost? Should I just cut in 29.97 and convert the EDL from 30 to 24 in Cinema Tools when everything is finished? I am extremely hesitant to do this, because in the past I've always tried to keep my "23.98" ducks in a row.
I'd prefer to reverse telecine and work in 23.98, but don't relish the thought of re-syncing sound that has already been synced. There's roughly 10 hours of footage.
Thanks.
Mac OS X (10.4.8) 1.25 Dual G4

I'm curious how you solved this problem - I'm assuming you did figure it out as time stands still for no Editor : - )Please share?
Thanks much.

Reverse Telecine Vs. Converted EDL

Simple question, long explanation. Apologies in advance.
Basically, a new client of mine shot a project on film, had the footage telecined without sound and synced the sound himself to help whomever was going to cut it. My issue is this, he synced everything before reversing the telecine on the clips, so everyting is still 29.97. The project will eventually go out to film, so a 23.98 EDL will have to be created.
In past projects, when I received telecined footage I'd reverse the telecine before syncing sound, and my EDL's have always been fine. My question is this, if I reverse telecine now, is his work syncing sound in 29.97 lost? Should I just cut in 29.97 and convert the EDL from 30 to 24 in Cinema Tools when everything is finished? I am extremely hesitant to do this, because in the past I've always tried to keep my "23.98" ducks in a row.
I'd prefer to reverse telecine and work in 23.98, but don't relish the thought of re-syncing sound that has already been synced. There's roughly 10 hours of footage.
Thanks.

I'm curious how you solved this problem - I'm assuming you did figure it out as time stands still for no Editor : - )Please share?
Thanks much.

Reverse telecine but footage too fast

Ola,
Here's my problem:
Captured 24p footage, reverse telecined it to 23.98. looks great, but 30% faster than before. Is there a way to change the speed to the original, either in Cinema Tools or FCP?
A.

I recall reading on here that Cinema Tools does not like reversing any clips larger than 5GBs. Since your 30 minute clip (6GBs DV) went through fine, it may not be the case, however it still could be. 40 minutes is 8GBs and might be too much. I had this same problem and had to perform a work around.
I exported smaller chunks of the big clips via Final Cut Pro as full quality DV movies, brought those into Cinema Tools, reversed them and then brought them back into Final Cut for editing.
That "not enough memory" error has been the bane of my existence and I still haven't figured out what exactly causes it or what the perfect solution is.

Does Reverse Telecine with orig 24fps, trans to 29.97 ACTUALY WORK !!!

I've tried all presets within the REVERSE TELECINE POP UP options. Nothing seems to bring the 29.97 footage to actual 24 progressive frames. I saw a posting on Ken Stones website that said Cinema Tools CAN'T actually do it. WHAT? Am I missing something here? What good is it (Cinema Tools) if it can't do the job correctly.
Any ideas or approaches

I've been trying to get Cinema Tools to remove 2:3:3:2 telecine from 1080i/24pA footage. I haven't tried with DV footage. Its supposed to recognize DV 24pA footage and automatically remove the pulldown, but it doesn't recognize 1080i.
I tried exhaustively to get CT to correctly remove 2:3:3:2 pulldown from 1080i footage, using manual settings, and each time it screwed up the cadence and left interlaced frames. It seems to be a lot smarter about 3:2 pulldown than 24pA 2:3:3:2 pulldown.
But I may have found a work-around.
If you bring the footage into Final Cut, and then tell final cut to have Cinema Tools reverse the telecine, it appears that some magic happens. I've tried it several times and it seems to effectively remove 2:3:3:2 pulldown, although maybe I was just lucky.
What I think is happening is that Final Cut is recognizing the pulldown cadence and telling Cinema Tools how to remove the pulldown. CT runs blindly and when it finishes the footage in FCP appears to be properly reversed. I guess the "smarts" are in Final cut and the "how to" is in Cinema Tools.
One word of warning though: If you try this, CT will overwrite the original file. And it doesn't ask if you want to do that or provide any warnings. So if it gets it wrong there is no 2nd chance. So make sure that you copy your original file and work on the copy rather than the original.
Good luck!

Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine problem-24 vs. 23.98 + sound issue

Similar Messages

Maybe you are looking for