"closed network" setting in a WDS network

I've just shifted to the APExtreme after many years in LinksysLand. I've recycled an old old APExpress (circa '04) and combined the two in a WDS network, in order to boost signal on the other side of that metal elevator. (Yes, I know WDS is less efficient...but the price was right, etc).
I prefer to suppress SSID broadcast, so I set both base and remote stations to "closed network." But then the MacBook and iPhone couldn't see the network - either station. Turn that option off on the Express (remote station) only, and the devices see the network and set up on the Express G channels. Meanwhile, down the hall, everybody can see the Extreme, and those that can use the 5gHz channels do so, with that set as a "closed network."
What am I missing? Or not understanding about WDS? thx

Unfortunately that option is simply a deception to the user and offers a false sense of security. The network name is still broadcast between any connected client and the base station. Therefore the network name is easily discovered.
The only thing enabling that option does successfully is cause connection and configuration problems. The option is best avoided.

Similar Messages

WDS and Closed Network

In an already existing WDS network (functioning in G model) is it possible to select the "Closed Network" in all my WDS routers and still have WDS functioning?
The reason I ask is because it is possible one of my neighbours is sabotaging my network and making it "invisible" there might a less likely chance for him to find my network (as long as he's not that savvy). What's been happening is I discovered today that the reason Time Capsule backups were happening so slowly is because my network conflicts with his--but only recently. I was on radio signal 1 and so was he/she. So I switched it to radio signal 11. Less than 2 hours later, his/her network radio signal is also on 11. So I have my suspicions...

Yes, my network is closed now. Security has always been enabled at WPA2 but enabling security does nothing to remedy malicious radio interference (if that is what my neighbour is doing). The reason I want to set it to "close" (invisible) is so that if the neighbour is not savvy enough, s/he will think my network is gone and no longer try to use the same channel I am.
Yesterday, I realised the reason my Time Capsule backups were going so slowly is because my neighbour was using the same radio frequency as I was (Channel 1). His/her network has existed for a while now and we never clashed before. So I thought it must have been just conincidence. So then I switched over to Channel 11. Well, two hours later, his/her network was also on Channel 11 making my network go from speeds of 54 to 11. So, I thought this is possibly him/her playing around and interfering with my network so I decided to go "invisible."
You are right that someone who is a bit more knowledgeable can figure out what the invisible networks are. It's not that hard. Even I can use iStumbler to see them. But, may s/he is not that savvy--I'm hoping.
Enabling security does nothing for radio interference. I've always had WPA2 security on.

Using WDS and Closed Network

I need to close an office network that I converted to wireless using apple airport's extreme base station and One relay express and a remote express. I already have it setup sucessfully broadcasting the SSID, but the owner doesnt want anybody seeing it, as we are in an office bldg. Any Suggestions? I dont want to start over unless I have to.
Imac G4 flat panel 20 Mac OS X (10.4.1) 3 PC's as well as the Mac's.

There is little advantage, and many disadvantages, of setting up a "closed" network. The two biggest disadvantages are setup administration and "false" security. The AirPort, like most wireless routers, still broadcast their SSIDs to include data used for network data synchronization. Therefore, even "closed" networks can be easily found by "sniffers." Closing a network only keeps the casual users away.
A far better policy is to use wireless encryption, specifically WPA, to ensure no unauthorized access can occur (regardless if they can "see" the network.)

HT201334 How does one set up profile manager on a completely closed network with no Internet access available or even possible?

I need to set up Profile Manager on a completely closed network that has no Internet access at all. I can sneaker-net files into the network if I need to.
Profile Manager (and Lion Server in general) seems to need outside access to complete setup and I've been unable to find any meaningful answers.
Does anyone any any ideas?
Thanks to all

you could try it without enabling apple push notifications in server
you wont' be able to push out profiles without enabling apple push notification
but users could download them, or you could install manually, e-mail etc

Open and Closed network access?

Is it possible to have both an open network portion (no password), as well as a closed (password protected) network setup with a single Time Capsule/Airport Extreme device?
I want to keep my data protected with a password access to the network, but would like to also have an open network for guests that does not always require a password just to access the internet.
Thanks!

Can you clarify what you mean by "closed network"? Normally a "closed" network is one in which the name of the wireless network is not visible.
If you have a dual band AirPort Extreme or Time Capsule it is possible to set up a "main" network that is visible and password protected....and a "guest" network that is "open", not requiring a password to connect.
Important.......The guest network feature cannot be enabled if you are connecting the Extreme or Time Capsule to another gateway device.....a combination modem/router that is provided by a number of service providers.

Can you open a closed network?

I can no longer access the secure wi fi network set up on my Mac Pro, and must use the (insecure) network that came with my router. The regular network name doesn't show as an available network, but I know it is still there because both the name and security type appear when I click "advanced" on System Preferences/Network. I have apparently changed my regular network to "closed" by accident.
I have tried unsuccessfully to sign in as "other network", providing security type and passwork, but it doesn't work.
I need a way to open this closed network. Is this possible? How?
If it is impossible, what must I do to start over?

I have apparently changed my regular network to "closed" by accident.
Or the network is no longer available, temporarly shut down, or you were purposely locked out. Contact the network admin.

Airport Extreme multicast rate and closed network

New to Airport Extreme.
Is the multicast rate the same as the TX rate on other routers? I chose 11Mbps during the setup and my Macbook was very slow. I moved it back to 2 Mbps and it sped up. Distance from macbook to airport approx. 24 inches.
Other question/ statement. I assume that the closed network portion of the setup is the same as turning off the SSID of other routers. Do I assume correctly?

goldengti, Welcome to the discussion area!
Is the multicast rate the same as the TX rate on other routers?
Sorry I don't know about other routers. The multicast rate defines the minimum data rate the base station will use and maintain the wireless connection. If you set it to 11 Mbps, the wireless connection will be broken if that data rate can't be maintained.
Other question/ statement. I assume that the closed network portion of the setup is the same as turning off the SSID of other routers. Do I assume correctly?
Yes the same useless option. Regardless of how you set this option on any router, the SSID is still broadcast between any connected clients and the base station. Therefore it only takes a few seconds to discover the SSID.

AE and closed network...deactivated my AE and won't hard or factory reset

Hi there. Simply set my AE to a closed network, but didn't get a chance to set name and password before AE shut down. Now I can't gain green light by unplugging and replugging, soft, hard or factory reset. Ugh! I can't locate AE on Airport Utility 1)b/c not up and running and 2) b/c is now set as closed network.
Can anybody tell me a trick to resetting AE beyond all the given resets?
Can I access what the closed network settings (name/password) may be?
Thanks.

Sure... first I tried just unplugging but it plugged back in as amber light. Then I tried the reset button for 5 seconds. Then I tried for 10 seconds. Then I unplugged and plugged back in while holding reset button. I did this as outlined in the link above for resetting AE. With Admin utilities open the the settings named. The only time I can get a green light is the first moment it hits the socket, but it immediately goes solid amber. If I press and hold for 10 seconds I get 3 or 4 flashing green lights but it immediately goes amber (in this case, flashing amber)after the 3rd or 4th flashing green light.
When I connected AE via Ethernet cable, I had to hold reset for 10 sec to get flashing amber in order to view AE details in AirPort Admin Utilities. I get a flashing amber light and the base station is named in the Admin Utilities with the name,Ethernet (WAN), the AirPort ID and Apple Base Station V6.3. When I choose configure, I get the error message, "The AirPort Admin Utility was unable to read the configuration fo the selected base station. An error occurred while reading the configuration." I always get this far and get stuck.
Is it that the AE is not "green", or have I blocked access to reconfigure when I put it on a closed network? or both?
Thanks...
Tracy

SSID showing on closed network

I have an original 500GB TC connected to a dual-band AEBS to extend my wireless network.
I have configured the TC to create a closed wireless network (SSID not broadcast). But the AEBS is broadcasting the SSID of my network.
Everything in the network (iPhone, multiple Mac's, other wireless devices) is working fine - just this little annoyance.
I cannot find anything in the AirPort utility to alter this behavior. Anyone out there have any ideas about why this is happening? and how to get the AEBS to stop broadcasting my SSID?

Welcome to the discussions!
In a "closed network", many users are surprised to learn that the SSID is still always being broadcast in the open between any connected clients, so this "feature" is quite limited in it's functionality. Any number of simple utilities readily available on the internet will display a closed network in seconds.
There is not a setting or option in AirPort Utility to tell the "extending" device to "hide" the network that it's extending, so if this is important to you, you might want to provide your thoughts directly to Apple using AirPort Extreme Feedback.

Using an Express to create a closed network

I have a home automation/control system in place. All of the touch panels communicate via ethernet. Three are wireless devices using 802.11g to hit a WAP which is then cabled to the head end processor.
One of the WAPS on the system died last night. (I did temporarily slap in an old linksys WAP4400 which worked after pointing the wireless devices to the net network name) but I want to replace that closed network with 2 air port expresses. (by closed i don't mean hidden but rather a network that doest have a connection to the internet and no modem connected)
I'm wondering if should set up one express to share a public ip and the other in bridge mode or since this network does not hit the internet and is a closed network is there a more appropriate setup.
Also can two ABExp be set to create a wireless network, in bridge mode and with the same ssid and security settings or does one have to be set to share a public ip address or some other setting?
Thanks in advance
Marc
Thanks in advance.

Are these AirPort Express devices connected to a hub via ethernet cable connections, both wireless, etc.?
You can do what you want, you'll just need to click the "ignore" box when AirPort Utility informs you that you don't have an Internet connection, there's no ethernet cable connected (if applicable), etc.

Connecting to Closed Networks

I have an airport express that I use for wireless access in my dorm. So, it's acting as a traditional router rather than a range extender. I have it set up as a closed network so that it's only visible to those who know the network name. I also have WPA2 enabled for security.
My problem is that, rather sporadically, I will wake my MBP from sleep and a dialog appears stating that "No known networks are available" and gives a list of available open networks. So, I choose "other" and input the network name and the password, making certain that "remember this network" is checked before connecting. Even after doing this multiple times, I still get the dialog periodically (about every other day or so) and I haven't been able to figure out why.
I left the network open for about a week and didn't encounter this issue, so it seems to be associated with the fact that it is a closed network. It wouldn't be a huge deal to have the network visible to anyone who browses for a network since it is encrypted, but I would rather have it closed in a building with a lot of people.
Does anyone have any ideas for a solution?

Yeah, the debate goes on and on, but if you were running aircrack-ng or kisMac and you saw my non-broadcast SSID pop up because I was actively affiliated to my network, wouldn't that pique your interest more in my network than in Alex's whose WPA2-AES-secured SSID you saw every day?
Meanwhile, I don't really know of any fix to Alex's complaint, in order to avoid the hoops that he has to jump through in order to reaffiliate after waking from sleep -- I can't say that I can recall ever seeing anything posted in these forums that adequately addressed the issue. Nobody's piped in on this thread yet with a suggestion to fix this behavior. I'd love to hear of one that is a dependable long-term fix. I'd go non-broadcast then myself.
I used to not broadcast a long time ago when I first went wireless, but I got tired of dealing with this very issue all the time myself, so when I weighed the annoyance of the reaffiliation process after waking from sleep versus the increased likelihood of my WPA2-AES-PSK with truly random passcode getting cracked because I broadcast my SSID, I chose convenience over annoyance. I don't believe that my security has been compromised in any way by my choice.
Alex is apparently annoyed as well, so that's why I recommended he go ahead and broadcast SSID so as to not be annoyed by this behavior anymore. WPA2-AES with a random passcode is as secure as he's gonna get wirelessly, broadcast SSID or not. He needs to weigh the choice of putting up with the annoyance factor or not...until somebody posts a sure-fire cure.

My Macs can't remember visited closed networks

My friend, a new Mac user, brought this problem to my attention. He was frustrated to find that he has to enter the network name and password for the closed network at his job site each time he accesses the network. His Windows laptop "remembers" the information and automatically logs him in.
I thought I would quickly get to the bottom of this problem for him and show him how easy Macs are to configure. I set up a closed network at my home with my AP extreme. I am running Snow Leopard on my main Mac and OS X 10.4.11 on my older Powerbook. Much to my chagrin, I am duplicating my friend's experience. I can connect to the new closed network from either of my computers by entering the network name and password. But neither of my computers "remembers" the closed network between restarts of Airport or of the computer. I have to re-enter the network name and password each time I want to connect. Neither computer shows any memory of the closed network except that the name of the network does appear in the "Preferred Networks" section of the Networks preferences section of System Preferences. "Remember networks this computer has joined" is selected.
I know that in the past it was possible to have my Mac remember closed networks that had been previously visited. What has happened?
Any help would be appreciated.
John

LittleSaint wrote:
Are two threads about the same problem supposed to fix it faster?
I have initiated only one thread on this subject. A search of this forum reveals a half a dozen or more threads on this or very closely related topics. Some of these threads are quite old and dormant. None of them provides an answer. I did respond to a thread initiated by another user. But since his problem and mine are not necessarily the same issue(s) I posted my request for help in this thread. I apologize if this has offended you or any one else.
And to answer your question– I'm not convinced that the two threads you refer to necessarily relate to the "same problem". Perhaps they do. But there is the distinct possibility that by posting my own unique problem with detailed explanations might lead to a "faster fix". By posting in detail my networking problem in another's thread I run the risk of "hijacking" the discussion away from the original poster.
John

Closed network issue

I called Apple support yesterday to configure my Time Capsule with my Uverse system. My Apple Tv's and my wireless iMac in my bedroom where the time capsule is located have no problem connecting to my network.
The problem is with my iMac in my living room when after I shut it down at night. When I start it up in the morning, this imac doesn't find my network and I have to constantly re-enter my network name and password to access the internet. Is this because of my closed network setting?
Is there a solution for this?
thanks in advance to all you gurus out there!

Harisn wrote:
I recently created a closed network
is there a particular reason for that ? closed (or hidden) networks do not add any security because they still broadcast their SSID openly. many freely available tools can detect them.
if you are behind a router firewall, use WPA2 security and a long, non-dictionary password made up of letters and numbers, your network is as safe as it gets.
Is this standard behavior, or is there perhaps some sort of fix?
it may not be standard but it's not unusual. again, a closed network doesn't provide extra security but leads to problems such as what you experience.
secure your network as per the above and do away with the closed part.
JGG

Airport Closed Network

I am having a problem automatically joining my closed network on startup.
It will join the network if it is not closed upon startup. It works fine on my G5 iMac running Panther.
I have tried fiddling with the Network setting to "By default, join..." Automatic & Preferred networks. Also tried the Airport setup assistant... the password is in my keychain...
A side note, the signal level received from the airport base station is very low compared to the signal received on the iMac. The base station is about 4ft away from both computers.
Help!!
Mac Pro 2.66GHz - 20" iMac G5 - 12" iBook G4 Mac OS X (10.4.7)

No such luck. I tried the keychain first aid repair and it didn't report any problems.
I have also tried re-ordering the networks it'll try to join by putting the Airport at the top of the list. Still nothing.
I have noticed that on the Network Status window, the Firewire always seems to be on top of the Airport... So I deleted the Firewire network, restarted, and still it can't join the Airport network.
Any idea if the low signal from the Airport Base Station has anything to do with it? I'll try and move the two on top of each other and see if that makes any difference.

Closed Network not Remembered

With no real change in my system (1.25 GHz PPC G4 running 10.4.10) that I know of, my computer no longer remembers the name and PW for the closed network I have. Specifically, every time I logon, I have to go the Airport icon in the menu bar, choose "Other", enter my network name, WPA Personal, and my PW. Then all runs great until I log off and come back on again, when I must repeat the entire process. Before the unknown event that changed this, my computer "remembered" the network and PW so I didn't have to do all of this each time.
Interestingly, in the Network pane in System Preferences, the option "Rememebr any network this computer has joined" box is checked and dimmed out.
Any advice to get things set so that I don't have to go through this process with each login would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

Go to your system preferences, get into Network, and go to the TCP/IP settings. Find the address for your router. Let's say it is 192.168.0.1. Type http://192.168.0.1 into the URL field in Safari and that should get you to your router configuration pages. Now, every different brand and model of router has a different layout of their web-based configuration pages. But in mine, it is under "Wireless Settings" in the "Advanced User" setup. It says Wireless on/off and has a field for SSID and channel number, and radio buttons for encryption type (WPA, WEP, and so on). I'd be surprised, though, that if you don't know how to get there, that SSID broadcast would be off -- they usually come from the factory default to "on" anyways.

"closed network" setting in a WDS network

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