CMOS Checksome Error
Hi,
Ever since I got my new K8 Diamond, everytime i turn my computers power off from the wall or unplug it, then when i turn my pc back on i get the CMOS checksome error which erases my CMOS, including the time as if the battery is dead when its brand new. what should i do try a new battery or have you guys got any other ideas.
Thanks,
Marc.
Quote from: Indigian on 23-February-06, 23:55:02
The battery may be ok?
Have you gone into the bios and loaded 'optimised defaults',save and exited?
If not,do so and see if that stops the checkssum error.
Yeah I have done that, and it doesnt help.
Was going to get the battery from the PC store anyways. I wasn't going to get MSI to send me one just wanted to know how u contacted them about these things.
-Marc
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CMOS Checksum Error on MSI 785GM-E51
Hi, I have 2 years old MSI 785GM-E51. Approximately 2 - 3 months ago, my PC just go hang without any reasons, even the mouse / keyboard won't respond to anything.
After I reset, sometimes it's fine, but sometimes it's hang again, the interval is random. Sometimes it even hang when in the POST or when i enter BIOS setting.
After several restart, it's sometimes gives me CMOS Checksum Error, so I decided to reset the CMOS using jumper method. After that my PC just works normal.
Until a week ago, my pc start to hang randomly again, the symptom is similar but this time sometimes it's not hang, but the PC just restart immediately with black / white / blue random pattern
displayed momentarily on the screen. And it always display CMOS Checksum Error. I already tried reinstalling Windows, and updating BIOS via flash disk from Live Update 5, no use.
I already tried to plug out my VGA and using the onboard one, still crash / hang randomly. I also test Memtest overnight with passing 11 pass without error.
Is it my motherboard already dead? or it's my PSU? CPU?
Here is my complete specs:
AMD Phenom II X4 955BE
MSI 785GM-E51
DDR3 Dual Channel 4GB RAM (corsair, forgot the model)
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Thanks in advance.Quote
Yesterday i desperate enough and change some BIOS settings, and
surprisingly, the CPU is much cooler!
Try entering bios, hitting f6 for optimized defaults then save and exit. See if problem persists.
Quote
As far as I remember, no, the crash / hang time i remembered is when POST / boot / startup / browsing / install app / playing games / copy file.
And one more thing, when it hangs, it really hangs, not just the windows, sometimes it even not respond to reset button, so i have to power it off. But sometimes it respond
to reset button, but with quite a long delay, it could half a minute i think.
Have you tried re-seating the cpu,memory and all of the power connectors etc?
What are the amp ratings on the 12v rail of the PSU? I found this on thier website but dont have time to dig furthur: Quote
4-Channel 12V Rails Design
Although the VGA you list only needs 24a on a 12v rail.
Quote
what's cpuid / ram timings / spd? where i can look at it?
http://www.cpuid.com/
When the program opens, take a screen shot of the tab that describe how your ram is running, It will show the current timings,speed, single or dual channel. Also take a ss of the spd tab, which will show the jdec standards that apply to that ram and the xmp profile. Then post the SS's to imageshack or the link and link them. -
Getting cmos checksum error - defaults loaded press f1 to continue. Pc boots into windows and seems to work OK. Don't seem to be able to get rid of this message though at startuop. Any ideas, it's anew board, the bios hasn't been updated the bioard is untouched?
Thanks............ Please help!!Done all you mentioned, did select load defaults, save and exit thinking that would stop the checksum message but still it's ther. I just noted that if I keep the PC plugged in to the mains however the meesage does NOT appear on reboot. However if I unplug and they plug back in to the mains and switch on the message returns, could that point to faulty Lithium battery?
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Tecra R10-10W - CMOS battery error and next bios password error
I have old Tecra R10-10W
Aftert long time in the cabinet, it say CMOS battery error and after charging can I not startup on the old system (bios) password.
How to reset the bios password and is also required replacement cmos battery and I can do it myself?
Thank...you can change cmos battery your self np,for bios pasword use google,i havet a hp mini with same problem and foundet a program that have reset with the help off error code when inserted wrong password 3 times in the row,then i used error code in the program and got password,restarted hp and inserted password now is working bp.Do i have also a old tecra and have difrend problem with it,evrithing sims to be in order but laptop wont start in first tray,after several restarsts shovs startup screen,then runing bp,if restarted again same story,needs several restarts and then is runing again,trayed with outside monitor same thing,any ideas?
here is the link for your problem and sulution: http://dogber1.blogspot.com/2009/05/table-of-reverse-engineered-bios.html -
CMOS checksum invalid. CMOS 502 Error.
Product name: HP ENVY TS 15 J127TX Touch Notebook PC
Product number: F7Q47PA#AB4
BIOS Version: F.56
OS: Windows 8.1
It happened after a BIOS update which had resulted in the laptop not booting. A successful message was displayed instead. The BIOS version is F.56 and is currently the latest on the support page. Ironically, the description says the update "Fixes an intermittent issue where the system does not restart the operating system properly after the BIOS is upgraded." The capslock LED would flash twice and refuse to start. Suggestions I got from forums were to reset the CMOS.
What I did:
1. Remove the flat battery and waited a while before I re-inserted it.
2. Held down the power key for 30s.
3. Connected to cord and powered up.
The laptop was fine for 2 weeks till Windows got stuck in a repair loop. I had to refresh Windows to get it to boot. I had also restored from a system image I did with Paragon HDM and no problems for another week.
For no apparent reason, the CMOS error was displayed few days ago. There were also no changes made to the system.
I've tried many times to reflash again and followed by a hard reset after each of them with no success. I've also replaced the battery even though I didn't think it would be flat so quickly for a 6-month old laptop.
Questions:
1. Would a reset to factory default restore a working BIOS?
2. Would the "Rollback" feature in "Firmware Management" in Diagnostic be sufficient instead?
3. I did attempt to do a "Rollback" but there was no firmware found. I explored the recovery partition and the folder labeled as "previous" under the "Bios" directory was indeed empty. Would the "Rollback" work if a good firmware is copied to the folder? What are the files to use and how do I get them?
A factory reset is the last thing I want to do so please advise if there are other options.
"If it's ain't broke, don't fix it".
PS. I had initially sent this using the "Contact HP" page but received a reply informing me that there's no email support for my laptop. Why didn't it stop me before I wasted my time typing the message?I have searched through most models in the Envy 15 J100 series. All list only BIOS F.56 for download.
Since it is a weekend there are not likely to be any HP employees online here. Maybe Monday.
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**Click Accept as Solution on a Reply that solves your issue to help others** -
G62-220CA CMOS 502 error Laptop boot but die in 4 second windows 7 home premium
I will turn on the laptop it start by a message to press ESC key then automatically shutdown.
I have checked the memory on another laptop and it is OK, hard drive the same way.
I have tried both hard reset and even removed the cmos battery and put it back.it still do the same thing
after the hard reset it comes with a screen about corrupt CMOS error 502 and it say It will reset it and then it boot
all the suggestion like F10 or F11 or F1 had no effect and same story.
Can I re flash the bios ?
thanksHi,
This fix is from HP:
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&taskId=125&prodSeriesId=...
Regards.
BH
**Click the KUDOS thumb up on the left to say 'Thanks'**
Make it easier for other people to find solutions by marking a Reply 'Accept as Solution' if it solves your problem. -
hey All i have acer veriton T661(Q35T-AM.V:1.0A 15-V36-011010 DDR2 800) and yesterday i update my bios but now the error is "CMOS Bad"Defult setting and no windows 7 running.when i change time and date.and save.it restart and again ask me to st time and date and clear Bios sitting that i done.i also change battery.but problem is presist.Please Help please
this is the supervisor password that you activated, did you remember entering it?
Regards,
Jin Li
May this year, be the year of 'DO'!
I am a volunteer, and not a paid staff of Lenovo or Microsoft -
K8T Master2-Far Will not POST unless CMOS is freshly cleared!
Hey all, thanks for helping out.
I came back to my computer one day to find it in a coma. The system was on, but the screen was getting no signal and would not come on by moving the mouse/keyboard like usual. I thought that maybe it had turned off the monitor for power save and then frooze some how. After restarting the computer I found that it was still doing the same thing. I shut down the system and unpluged. After waiting about 5 min i plugged back in and flipped the switch on the powersupply. This started the computer right up (even though i had not pushed th power button) and left it in the same condition as before. It simply would not post. After closer inspection I found that it was not posting because it wasn't getting far enough in the process before it was being restarted. I checked the restart button and even went as far as removing it from the motherboard. This did not help. I knew it was restarting because i could see it checking the optical drives then waiting for about 4 seconds, then a weird noise from the speakers (like a soft cruching so to speak) would happen, then it would do this all over again, non stop. That noise was familliar though, it was the normal noise that I hear when I push the restart button (I'm guessing a release of electricity etc..) so I knew what was going on.
After switching the memory out and in all orders, I stripped the system down to the bare min. This however did not change anything. I put the system back together and flashed the cmos. This made the system restart once, then "BEEP" it posted. It said CMOS Checksome Error - Defaults Loaded. I first pushed DEL to get into the bios. I changed everything back to how its suppost to be (time, apature, etc...) then saved and exited. This made the system go back into its restarting state. I then flashed the cmos again and pushed F1 to continue. The system booted up just fine. In safemode of course. Then i restarted. It then went back into its restarting state. I flashed the bios again. And after pushing F1 to continue selected it to go into windows normally. Everytime it does this it gets different results. One time it got past the windows xp loading screen and sat at the black screen before you get your curser and welcome screen (sigh... restart... flash..). It also once got in just fine, and after about 5 min got a blue screen about "bad pool caller". It most the time however gets a random blue screen right after you see the welcome screen. These blue screens consist of "bad pool caller", "IRQ Equal or Lesser Value", or No notes, just generic blue screen.
If i change anything in my bios it will not post. If i dont flash the cmos, it will not post. If i dont change anything in bios and continue, then restart, it will not post. The only way for it to post and for me to see anything on the screen is to flash the cmos. I thought it might be the power supply, but the only extra i have does not have the extra plug to power the 2nd cpu. After thinking about it though. I dont know if it could be a power supply issue, if it was then would it even load up into safe mode? Or why would it not load up into safe mode again after restarting. I have tried an extra stick of memory that i know works in a separate computer, but nothing changed. I have tried a different videocard... nothing changed. I have removed everthing accept the basics (motherboard, cpu's,videocard,memory,psu) and nothing changed.
I have worked on this for about 1 week now and can not figure it out. I have my useless MCSE/CSE/A+ certifications (I say useless because I dont have a job that uses them) but this one is beyond me. If anyone could help I would appreciate it.
Thanks,
Brandon
P.S. I dont know if this is related, but I did have to change from useing the DVI connection to RGB plug to even see anything once I heard it post. I was useing DVI before, and once i figured out that it would post after flashing cmos, I had to change to RGB to get any visual. The DVI will not work now at all. I have even tried changing cords. The DVI wont work in safemode either. ThanksI reckon these mobos have a fault that really needs to be sorted. You say that your PC was working fine using PC 3200 memory with 240's. I have a similliar problem, I am using 246's with Kingston' PC3200 KVR333X72RC25/512D 2.5 ECC REG. The PC worked fine for about two weeks and then one day went on a blink, every time I power it up all I get is beeps. I was forced to order new BIOS, which didn't work everything else has been tested and works fine.
So I ordered micron memory 2X512 PC 2100 266 ECC REG which I was told by the supplier that it was compartible, that didn't work either. I then went on to check the battery, to my surprise the battery was low so I thought I had nailed it, went out bought a new battery but the problem still exits. I must say though after installing the micron memory it did boot up but when I went into BIOS to change settings to boot fro CDROM the damn thing would not restart I had to switch it off using the power button to restart it and when it restarted all i got was beeps. After that to get it to bootup I have to reset CMOS using the jumper and when it boots up it gives a checksum error message. I have a choice of two at this stage
(1) To Press F1
(2) To Press delete o go into BIOS setup
The F1 option takes me as far as the windows log on screen and that's it cuts off as if it is gonna boot itself backup but just hangs there.
The Delete option takes into BIOS which when exited the PC does nothing until powered down and powered up again, from here I have to reset CMOS to get it to bootup.
I have been told that the kingston memory is not compatible but my question is how did it work the first two weeks?
Good ol' Bas have helped out on this one quite often but here I am three months on still in a struggle. I thought of RMAing the board but it would cost me about 160 pounds and with that kind of money I could pick up another boad from kompllete.com and remain with some change for a couple of buds.
"To bass You said in the last post that the poblem could be the power supply changed it but that has not solved my problem" -
Envy x360 battery short and CMOS/RTC | No dedicated CMOS battery = Kafkaesque HP support nightmare
Relevant Case Number:
3015038426
Caveat:
If I'm wrong about this, I'll eat my hat with a sauce made of ultra-expensive brand-name HP ink.
Question:
Does anyone at HP want to take reponsibility for a series of the company's tech support representatives giving horribly wrong hardware information, wasting customer time and money?
Summary:
1. I have apparently experienced a short in my main battery.
2. In the x360, the real-time clock (RTC) and BIOS settings are apparently powered by the main battery, not a separate CMOS/RTC battery.
3. (1) and (2) explain why my symptoms include a CMOS checksum error and 0-set RTC on boot.
4. Three separate HP representatives have been absolutely insistent that:
(a) I have a CMOS/RTC battery that just isn't disclosed in the service manual.
(b) My symptoms indicate the need for CMOS/RTC battery replacement.
(c) This requires a 2-week+ send-in service, even though I live right next to an authorized support center.
(d) A much less intrusive main battery replacement could not help me, since I have a CMOS issue.
5. I have already had to pay $54 and change for a local shop to confirm that HP support has been, for want of better terms, full of it -- they have been BSing me by phone and live chat, and there is no dedicated CMOS battery.
6. Because of HP's intransigence, I now face the choice of either
(a) paying another $54+ to get myself a new main battery on the open market
or
(b) completely unnecessarily going without my primary work machine for weeks in order to get a new main battery for free from HP. That's assuming that the people at the service center know that replacing the motherboard won't do anything for this machine.
Hilarious and/or Depressing Support Record:
1. Symptoms
This is an HP Envy x360 15t hybrid notebook, model u011dx (G6T85UA).
It had been suspended but suddenly appeared off. It would not power on until AC power was attached.
It showed a CMOS checksum error (502) on boot, and its real-time clock did not hold the time between power cycles.
It had inconsistent problems with failed or severely delayed POST completion.
If AC power was removed during operation, it immediately died. Information about the main battery still showed up in the OS, where it appeared fully charged but never discharged at all.
The light next to the AC plug would often blink blue depending on the power state.
The machine could POST normally (except for the CMOS and RTC failures) with the main battery physically detached.
2. Call ("Amit")
I don't have a transcript of my initial call with HP ("Amit"), but here is the gist of it. My 502 CMOS checksum error implicates the CMOS battery. My steps are to attempt a BIOS upgrade. Failing that, the computer would need to be sent in for service so that the CMOS battery could be replaced. Amit described it to me as the shape of a small tablet.
3. False Hope
When I had initially called, the case was off of the PC and both sides of the motherboard were accessible so that I could try to see if there were any visually obvious problems with the CMOS/RTC battery. Naturally, I couldn't find it, and I had hoped the call would help me. In any case, Amit would need to call back in 60-90 minutes after I had the chance to take care of other things and re-connect the machine's components so that I could boot it and do a BIOS upgrade.
Just before he called back, the machine appeared for one or two power cycles to have overcome its problem. It even seemed like it was drawing main battery power for a few moments during a session with AC power detached. Amit closed the case for me pending the problems recurring.
I concluded that one of the following two things must have happened. Either:
(a) All of the problems were related to the main battery, and the main battery connector had just gotten jarred loose so that one or two pins were not contacting properly. By disconnecting and reconnecting the main battery in my search for the RTC/CMOS battery, I had solved the issue by reseating it properly.
or
(b) All of the problems were related to the CMOS battery. But by having it on AC power for testing for a little while, I had charged the CMOS battery enough to enable POST and for it to mediate the transition from AC to battery power (I know this probably isn't how it should work, but hey).
I also updated the BIOS to the newest version so that I could ensure I was following the pre-shipment troubleshooting step set out by Amit.
Fairly quickly after the second call and the closing of the case, all of the symptoms recurred. I carefully re-checked and re-seated the main battery to rule out (a) above. I then decided to run the computer on AC power for several hours to test theory (b) above. When this failed, I went back to the HP site and opted for chat support.
4. First Chat (KARISHMA BARPANDA)
Gist:
I clearly have a problem with my invisible CMOS battery. Also, this CMOS battery is absent from the manual because it isn't supposed to be user-removable, not because it doesn't exist. Note especially the exchange at 2:02.
Transcript:
Spoiler (Highlight to read)
1:38 PM Support session established with KARISHMA BARPANDA.
1:38 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Welcome to HP Customer Support & Services for Notebook support. My name is Karishma and I will be your technical support specialist today.
1:38 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Hi
1:38 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: How are you doing today ?
1:38 PM Adam Colligan: Hello; this is related to case 3015038426
1:38 PM Adam Colligan: I'm good; just a little confused
1:39 PM Adam Colligan: PC symptoms implicated RTC battery: CMOS checksum error on boot. But also instant death when AC power removed. Temporarily resolved after re-seating main battery cable, so chalked up to that. Now not so sure: maybe I had just partly charged RTC battery during testing. Now trying long run on AC to rule this out.Query: x360 service manual (unlike other Envy manuals) makes no mention of RTC/CMOS battery. Didn't see one exposed on board. Can you verify presence and location of CMOS batt?
1:40 PM Adam Colligan: Just to clarify: I'm not asking you to walk me through changing a CMOS battery or anything like that -- I know you want notebooks sent in for service if they need that officially. But I just want to make sure that I actually know where the thing is on this model
1:42 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I am sorry, I can't understand you.
1:43 PM Adam Colligan: Okay, I'll back up. Have you heard of something called a CMOS battery or an RTC battery?
1:43 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Yes.
1:44 PM Adam Colligan: Would you be able to find out where it is located on my Envy x360 15t notebook (u011dx)?
1:45 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Alright !
1:46 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: In this situation, we need to take the notebook in free servics repair.
1:46 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Please, provide me the complete sdhipping address along with the zip code.
1:46 PM Adam Colligan: It is not confirmed yet that the CMOS battery is actually the problem
1:47 PM Adam Colligan: I don't want to set up a service yet. I just want to know *where* the battery is attached to the board.
1:47 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: We need to replace the CMOS battery,
1:47 PM Adam Colligan: How do you know that we need to replace the CMOS battery?
1:48 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Because tHe CMOS battery is not removable.
1:48 PM Adam Colligan: Well, in that case we're probably talking about replacing the whole motherboard. Do you mean *not removable* or just "not user removable" ?
1:48 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: We will take the notebook in service reapir and our HP certified technician will do the complete hardware diagnostic of your notebook.
1:49 PM Adam Colligan: I don't want to do anything yet except *LOOK* at the board and see if there is anything obviously wrong with the CMOS battery connection
1:49 PM Adam Colligan: I just want to know *where* it is; I don't need to actually do anything to it
1:50 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me explain.
1:51 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me check.
1:52 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Please, allow me few moments.
1:52 PM Adam Colligan: Thank you
1:56 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Thank you for staying connected. I appreciate your time and patience.
1:56 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I am sending you a link, please go through page number 33 and 34.
1:56 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA has sent a link: http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c04513489
1:57 PM Adam Colligan: That's okay; I understand that it may take time
1:57 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part.
1:58 PM Adam Colligan: 33 and 34 refer to the main battery, not the CMOS battery
1:58 PM Adam Colligan: I know that the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part. However, I want to visually inspect it.
1:59 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: It is not listed there.
1:59 PM Adam Colligan: Exactly. Compare that to this manual for the HP Envy 17, page 41
1:59 PM Adam Colligan: http://www.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c02160120.pdf
2:00 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: If you are facing any issues with the battery then, we need to take the notebook in service reapir and will fix the issue.
2:01 PM Adam Colligan: Sigh.
2:02 PM Adam Colligan: Look, here is a theory. What if this PC does not have a separate CMOS battery, and it's been using power from the main battery to keep the clock and BIOS settings current? In that case, the symptoms might just be a result of poor seating of the main battery cable. To rule that out, I would like to confirm for a fact that a CMOS battery actually exists on this motherboard, and I'd like to see it with my own eyes.
2:02 PM Adam Colligan: ...before I go without my PC for days or weeks
2:03 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery exsist in the motherboard and it is not a customer replaceable part.
2:04 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: You cannot see it.
2:04 PM Adam Colligan: So where on the motherboard is it?
2:04 PM Adam Colligan: It's on the motherboard but it's invisible?
2:04 PM Adam Colligan: Maybe it's under a piece of foam by the HDD indicator light? There aren't many places for it to hide
2:05 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would suggest you to sent the notebook in service repair, and if there will be any hardware issues, then HP technician will take care of it.
2:06 PM Adam Colligan: Please answer this question honestly for me. Is the location of the CMOS battery actually available to you? It's okay for you to say, "I don't know where it is, and I don't know how to find out where it is". But it seems like you are avoiding saying that.
2:10 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me know are you facing any issues with the HP notebook right now ?
2:11 PM Adam Colligan: Yes. Why won't you answer that question?
2:24 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would like to inform you that, the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part.
2:24 PM Adam Colligan: What does that have to do with whether or not you know where it is?
2:24 PM Adam Colligan: Is there some rule that you are not allowed to say "I don't know" ?
2:24 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.
2:25 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.
2:25 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery can be replaced by the HP hardware engineers.
2:26 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: So, the CMOS battery can be replaced only in our service center.
2:26 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Do you want to send your notebook for a free service to replace the CMOS battery ?
2:26 PM Adam Colligan: I think we've established that. I am not asking you about how to replace it. I'm asking if you can find out where it is.
2:26 PM Adam Colligan: It's perfectly alright if the answer is "I don't know", but I do expect that amount of honesty
2:26 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: No, it is not listed in the manual.
2:27 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I can understand your concern.
2:27 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: As, it is not listed in the manual, let me know how can I assist you.
2:28 PM Adam Colligan: So then the next question is: can I contact a technical support professional who can tell me where it is attached so that I can visually inspect it before committing to a service by mail?
2:30 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: This is the only technical support and you can contact our voice technical support. However, they will tell you the same thing, which I have told you.
1:38 PM Support session established with KARISHMA BARPANDA.1:38 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Welcome to HP Customer Support & Services for Notebook support. My name is Karishma and I will be your technical support specialist today.1:38 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Hi1:38 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: How are you doing today ?1:38 PM Adam Colligan: Hello; this is related to case 30150384261:38 PM Adam Colligan: I'm good; just a little confused1:39 PM Adam Colligan: PC symptoms implicated RTC battery: CMOS checksum error on boot. But also instant death when AC power removed. Temporarily resolved after re-seating main battery cable, so chalked up to that. Now not so sure: maybe I had just partly charged RTC battery during testing. Now trying long run on AC to rule this out.Query: x360 service manual (unlike other Envy manuals) makes no mention of RTC/CMOS battery. Didn't see one exposed on board. Can you verify presence and location of CMOS batt?1:40 PM Adam Colligan: Just to clarify: I'm not asking you to walk me through changing a CMOS battery or anything like that -- I know you want notebooks sent in for service if they need that officially. But I just want to make sure that I actually know where the thing is on this model1:42 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I am sorry, I can't understand you.1:43 PM Adam Colligan: Okay, I'll back up. Have you heard of something called a CMOS battery or an RTC battery?1:43 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Yes.1:44 PM Adam Colligan: Would you be able to find out where it is located on my Envy x360 15t notebook (u011dx)?1:45 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Alright !1:46 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: In this situation, we need to take the notebook in free servics repair. 1:46 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Please, provide me the complete sdhipping address along with the zip code. 1:46 PM Adam Colligan: It is not confirmed yet that the CMOS battery is actually the problem1:47 PM Adam Colligan: I don't want to set up a service yet. I just want to know *where* the battery is attached to the board.1:47 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: We need to replace the CMOS battery, 1:47 PM Adam Colligan: How do you know that we need to replace the CMOS battery?1:48 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Because tHe CMOS battery is not removable. 1:48 PM Adam Colligan: Well, in that case we're probably talking about replacing the whole motherboard. Do you mean *not removable* or just "not user removable" ?1:48 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: We will take the notebook in service reapir and our HP certified technician will do the complete hardware diagnostic of your notebook. 1:49 PM Adam Colligan: I don't want to do anything yet except *LOOK* at the board and see if there is anything obviously wrong with the CMOS battery connection1:49 PM Adam Colligan: I just want to know *where* it is; I don't need to actually do anything to it1:50 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me explain. 1:51 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me check. 1:52 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Please, allow me few moments. 1:52 PM Adam Colligan: Thank you1:56 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Thank you for staying connected. I appreciate your time and patience.1:56 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I am sending you a link, please go through page number 33 and 34.1:56 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA has sent a link: http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c045134891:57 PM Adam Colligan: That's okay; I understand that it may take time1:57 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part. 1:58 PM Adam Colligan: 33 and 34 refer to the main battery, not the CMOS battery1:58 PM Adam Colligan: I know that the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part. However, I want to visually inspect it. 1:59 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: It is not listed there. 1:59 PM Adam Colligan: Exactly. Compare that to this manual for the HP Envy 17, page 411:59 PM Adam Colligan: http://www.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c02160120.pdf2:00 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: If you are facing any issues with the battery then, we need to take the notebook in service reapir and will fix the issue. 2:01 PM Adam Colligan: Sigh.2:02 PM Adam Colligan: Look, here is a theory. What if this PC does not have a separate CMOS battery, and it's been using power from the main battery to keep the clock and BIOS settings current? In that case, the symptoms might just be a result of poor seating of the main battery cable. To rule that out, I would like to confirm for a fact that a CMOS battery actually exists on this motherboard, and I'd like to see it with my own eyes.2:02 PM Adam Colligan: ...before I go without my PC for days or weeks2:03 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery exsist in the motherboard and it is not a customer replaceable part. 2:04 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: You cannot see it. 2:04 PM Adam Colligan: So where on the motherboard is it?2:04 PM Adam Colligan: It's on the motherboard but it's invisible?2:04 PM Adam Colligan: Maybe it's under a piece of foam by the HDD indicator light? There aren't many places for it to hide2:05 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would suggest you to sent the notebook in service repair, and if there will be any hardware issues, then HP technician will take care of it. 2:06 PM Adam Colligan: Please answer this question honestly for me. Is the location of the CMOS battery actually available to you? It's okay for you to say, "I don't know where it is, and I don't know how to find out where it is". But it seems like you are avoiding saying that.2:10 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me know are you facing any issues with the HP notebook right now ?2:11 PM Adam Colligan: Yes. Why won't you answer that question?2:24 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would like to inform you that, the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part.2:24 PM Adam Colligan: What does that have to do with whether or not you know where it is?2:24 PM Adam Colligan: Is there some rule that you are not allowed to say "I don't know" ?2:24 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery can be replaced by the HP hardware engineers.2:26 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: So, the CMOS battery can be replaced only in our service center.2:26 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Do you want to send your notebook for a free service to replace the CMOS battery ?2:26 PM Adam Colligan: I think we've established that. I am not asking you about how to replace it. I'm asking if you can find out where it is.2:26 PM Adam Colligan: It's perfectly alright if the answer is "I don't know", but I do expect that amount of honesty2:26 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: No, it is not listed in the manual.2:27 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I can understand your concern.2:27 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: As, it is not listed in the manual, let me know how can I assist you.2:28 PM Adam Colligan: So then the next question is: can I contact a technical support professional who can tell me where it is attached so that I can visually inspect it before committing to a service by mail?2:30 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: This is the only technical support and you can contact our voice technical support. However, they will tell you the same thing, which I have told you.
5. I pay money to have the CMOS battery checked
Clearly, I wasn't inspired by that chat. Maybe the rep was just wrong about the hardware. More likely, it was just my own ignorance that kept me from finding the CMOS battery, and so I would benefit from a real technician checking it, maybe replacing it or telling me I really did need to send it to HP for service, and also looking at the main battery circuit.
A couple of hours and $54.13 in diagnostic fees later, I had my answer from the technicians. My main battery had a short in it and needed to be replaced. There is no dedicated CMOS / RTC battery on this motherboard. The clock and BIOS use main battery power, and it makes perfect sense that the main battery fault would therefore include symptoms normally associated with a simultaneous failure of a main battery and a dedicated CMOS battery in another computer. This PC is not unique in lacking a dedicated CMOS battery. I could buy a new main battery for around $55.
Obviously, I was now thoroughly upset at HP Support. With this clearly being a main battery issue and the main battery being easy for me to replace and covered by warranty, HP could just send me a new main battery. I wouldn't even care if they wanted to tell me that swapping it myself would void the rest of the warranty period -- better than going without my PC for weeks on end. Failing that, I would probably rather even pay the money for a new battery from a retailer rather than go through the stupidity of sending this PC in just to have the battery swapped out. But now I had already paid the equivalent of that new battery cost just to get the correct information about my hardware, solely because official HP Support had given me false information -- twice!
6. Second chat ("Justine")
Gist:
So I re-connected with technical support in the hope that something could be done to make the situation right. I briefly summarized the problem and gave the case number in the webform submission not shown. Make sure you're sitting down for this transcript and have either whisky or popcorn depending on whether you work for HP or not.
Note in particular at 5:28, where my soul tries to escape my body, and 6:00, where Justine accidentally states the whole issue without actually understanding.
Transcript:
Spoiler (Highlight to read)
5:10 PM Support session established with Justine.
5:10 PM Adam Colligan: Hi Justine
5:11 PM Justine: Thank you for contacting the HP Customer Support & Services. My name is Justine and I will be your chat support specialist today. Please give me a few minutes while I review your issue description details. NOTE: For security reasons, PLEASE DO NOT send credit card information via chat. Also, If you are using a mobile device (iPad, iPod, iPhone, etc....) and experience difficulties viewing the chat window, please initiate a new chat from a Windows or Mac computer or use a different browser for better compatibility.For DISCONNECTED or failed to reconnect, we keep records for all interactions feel free to initiate another chat.
5:11 PM Justine: May I have the phone number and e-mail address associated with your HP product?
5:11 PM Adam Colligan: [redacted]
5:12 PM Justine: In order for me to assist you better, can you please provide the Product and Serial number of the system that is having an issue.
5:13 PM Adam Colligan: Are the contents of the form I filled out not sent? The SN is [redacted] . This is a model G6T85UA
5:15 PM Justine: Thank you for verifying me those information, Adam. I have read your issue description and it seems like you need help in processing a replacement for your computer's battery, is that correct?
5:15 PM Adam Colligan: Yes.
5:16 PM Justine: I apologize for the inconvenience. I will do my best to help you resolve this issue.
5:19 PM Justine: Alright, regarding the incorrect information that our tech had provided you, what is that information again, Adam.
5:20 PM Adam Colligan: My own hunch was confirmed by an independent service center that I had to pay to diagnose this problem: this machine has no dedicated RTC/CMOS battery.
5:20 PM Justine: -
5:22 PM Justine: So the issue is that you went to a local tech and they are charging you for your battery replacement correct?
5:22 PM Adam Colligan: So I wasted both a day of work and over $50 because two technical support representatives told me in no uncertain terms that I was looking at symptoms of a CMOS battery fault. And I *now* face also having to double that money on a new battery unless you guys can make it right.
5:23 PM Adam Colligan: I paid for the diagnosis because they had to go in and determine that HP tech support was, for lack of a better phrase, full of it
5:23 PM Adam Colligan: I even have a hilarious piece of transcript: 2:02 PM Adam Colligan: Look, here is a theory. What if this PC does not have a separate CMOS battery, and it's been using power from the main battery to keep the clock and BIOS settings current? In that case, the symptoms might just be a result of poor seating of the main battery cable. To rule that out, I would like to confirm for a fact that a CMOS battery actually exists on this motherboard, and I'd like to see it with my own eyes.2:02 PM Adam Colligan: ...before I go without my PC for days or weeks2:03 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery exsist in the motherboard and it is not a customer replaceable part. 2:04 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: You cannot see it.
5:25 PM Adam Colligan: I had even checked the x360 service manuals and compared them to other Envy models, since the CMOS / RTC battery is specified for the other ones. Hence this (apparently completely false) gem: KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would like to inform you that, the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part.2:24 PM Adam Colligan: What does that have to do with whether or not you know where it is?2:24 PM Adam Colligan: Is there some rule that you are not allowed to say "I don't know" ?2:24 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery can be replaced by the HP hardware engineers.
5:25 PM Adam Colligan: Apparently the truth is that it's not in the manual because *it doesn't exist*
5:27 PM Justine: I apologize about that, Adam. But to explain this properly, yes the CMOS battery is not a replaceable part. We do not ship CMOS batteries. But if you want, you can consult your local tech about it.
5:28 PM Justine: May I ask why do you want the CMOS battery to be replaced, Adam?
5:28 PM Adam Colligan: Oh my god.
5:28 PM Adam Colligan: You're going to have to just give me a moment here.
5:29 PM Justine: Okay Adam. Please take your time.
5:31 PM Adam Colligan: Before I explain again, let me just ask a question or two. Let's say that, hypothetically, HP Support thought that I needed to replace my CMOS/RTC battery. So I ship it off. Imagine that it arrives at the service center and the techs there discover that there is nothing wrong with the CMOS battery. Instead, they find that the main battery has a short in it and needs to be replaced. Would I have to pay for the replacement of the main battery?
5:32 PM Justine: Alright, first the repair process is that whatever that is we need to replace, we will. also, fortunately, your warranty covers the repair for this computer. We could send it for repair for you.
5:33 PM Justine: Whether the CMOS battery or the main battery, we will fix this computer like brand new for you.
5:34 PM Adam Colligan: And you're saying there is no charge for this?
5:35 PM Justine: Yes Adam.
5:36 PM Justine: It will be for free.
5:36 PM Justine: May I ask for your shipping address?
5:37 PM Adam Colligan: Wait; see, I don't want to do that yet. How long would the whole shipping and repair process take?
5:37 PM Adam Colligan: I've already been told that I have to go through the whole shipping nightmare even though I live right near an authorized service center
5:38 PM Justine: Okay, we will ship you a box with a return label within 2-3 business days, then the repair process would be 7-9 business days maximum. This is for us to make sure that everything will be checked and diagnosed so that when it comes back to you, it would be like brand new.
5:39 PM Justine: We could still send you the box if you want, the box would be active within 30 days, so you could decide when you want it to be dispatched.
5:40 PM Adam Colligan: See, and that's the problem: I might rather just buy a new battery for $53 rather than be without my main work machine for 2 weeks+.
5:40 PM Adam Colligan: And so here's what happened:
5:41 PM Justine: Well, if we send it for repair we can determine if it is really a CMOS issue or the main battery.
5:41 PM Justine: But it would depend on your decision, Adam.
5:44 PM Justine: Are you still there? I want to get your issue taken cared of today. Please respond if you are available to chat.
5:44 PM Adam Colligan: In order to make that choice, I needed to know whether this could really be a CMOS battery issue. If it were, then I would have no choice but to send it in, because that would mean replacing the motherboard (or at a minimum re-soldering to it...so probably replacing it). I would probably also have to spend the time before and after the shipment taking the thing apart myself and putting it back together again because I have my own RAM and my own SSD in there. And so I discussed my symptoms (which included a CMOS checksum error) with two technical support representatives. The initial one was going to take me through a BIOS upgrade attempt and informed me that if it did not resolve, it would need to be sent in for a CMOS battery replacement. I think I had already let him know that I had looked for it just to check if there was anything obviously wrong and couldn't find it, and I had wondered if there really was one.
5:46 PM Justine: Actually if it already gave a CMOS error, it is already that.
5:46 PM Adam Colligan: In the end I did upgrade the BIOS, but when it appeared to work afterward, it was a coincidence. The ticket was closed but I discovered quickly that the problem was still there. It appeared that maybe I had partially charged the CMOS battery and so just needed to try running the machine for several hours to see if it would recharge. When that failed, I contacted HP again, which is where those snippets of transcript come from
5:47 PM Connecting...
5:47 PM Connected. A support representative will be with you shortly.
5:47 PM Support session established with Justine.
5:47 PM Adam Colligan: Once again, I was assured that this really was or could be a CMOS battery issue. I specifically raised my concern that there might not even be a CMOS battery, which is why I tried to focus the conversation on getting the rep to tell me where it is. She very directly and repeatedly told me that it was there -- which meant that I had no choice between a long service and replacing the battery myself.
5:49 PM Justine: The issue is that the CMOS could have already failed so technically, even though it is physically there, the computer is not detecting it anymore. For this, since there is already an error with the CMOS, it should be replaced.
5:50 PM Adam Colligan: But between the fact that the reps had not sounded competent and the possibility that it might be worth it to replace the CMOS battery myself and void the warranty, I was still suspicious. And that's why I found myself spending $54.13 for a third party service provider to tell me what HP should have known all along. This machine does not have a separate CMOS battery. When the main battery fails -- as mine has -- it will cause all the symptoms of a main battery failure *plus* the symptoms of a CMOS battery failure, since *the main battery* powers this board's real-time clock and RAM environment memory
5:51 PM Justine: I could wait for your decision if you want to send it in for repair, Adam. I will still send you a box for the repair, that would be available for use within a month. It is still up for you to decide, Adam.
5:51 PM Adam Colligan: And now you're saying the same thing: that my CMOS checksum error (and also my clock resetting) means there is a problem with the CMOS / RTC battery.
5:51 PM Adam Colligan: Am I correct that that is what you are saying?
5:52 PM Justine: I highly suggest sending it for repair, really. In this case we could provide a proper explanation in your issue.
5:52 PM Adam Colligan: Are you or are you not telling me that I have a CMOS / RTC battery and that it might need to be replaced?
5:53 PM Justine: Every motherboard has a CMOS battery, yours have already failed so it needs to be replaced.
5:54 PM Adam Colligan: See, I think -- and the service center that just looked at it thinks -- that that statement is flat-out untrue.
5:54 PM Justine: You could replace it by yourself like what you want, but first, we do not ship CMOS batteries, and replacing it by yourself will jsut tamper the warranty.
5:55 PM Adam Colligan: And so the important question is: will HP give me a free main battery, which I can install myself without needing to send the computer off, if it turns out that you just became rep #3 to give me false information?
5:56 PM Justine: Actually, we cannot determine that without really having it physically here for further details and with sufficient tests. Our technicians will be testing it not just inside, but physically.
5:57 PM Adam Colligan: You don't need my computer in front of you in order to know whether or not this model *has* a CMOS battery. You are essentially swearing up and down that it has one. If you're wrong, then you've not only cost me the $54 I already spent but will also unnecessarily cost me two weeks+ without my computer
5:57 PM Justine: I apologize but we can only replace the battery if we have the computer in question, and we cannot do that without the error in the main battery itself.
5:57 PM Justine: Every computer has a CMOS battery, what I mean is that we have to perform tests on your computer physically to determine the real issue.
5:57 PM Justine: I apologize about that.
5:57 PM Adam Colligan: So I want to know: if it turns out that this model has no CMOS battery, will HP comp me a main battery in return for the time and money that it has already made me waste?
5:59 PM Justine: Actually, we can send you a box with a return label, so that you can decide. At this point we will just wait for your decision.
5:59 PM Justine: We will only replace or provide on the part that neede to be replaced.
6:00 PM Justine: The CMOS and the main battery has different roles, so we couldn't send you a main battery when it is a CMOS issue.
6:00 PM Justine: Is that okay?
6:00 PM Justine: May I ask for your shipping address please?
6:01 PM Adam Colligan: That. That last thing you said. That is the heart of the whole problem! If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, then you would *know* you could just send me a main battery?
6:01 PM Adam Colligan: As long as it's not costing me anything, sure, send me a stupid box. My address is [redacted]
6:02 PM Justine: If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, the main battery doesn't have anything to do with it. If it does not exist, we can send it for repair, since we do not send CMOS batteries. That is the only thing that we can do.
6:02 PM Justine: Alright, is there anything else I could help you with?
6:03 PM Adam Colligan: Oh lord. If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, then the main battery is the whole point, because it's the main battery that's supplying the power to the components that normally draw from the CMOS battery on most other systems.
6:03 PM Adam Colligan: Nope, there's nothing else. You've provided another great transcript for the file.
5:10 PM Support session established with Justine.5:10 PM Adam Colligan: Hi Justine5:11 PM Justine: Thank you for contacting the HP Customer Support & Services. My name is Justine and I will be your chat support specialist today. Please give me a few minutes while I review your issue description details. NOTE: For security reasons, PLEASE DO NOT send credit card information via chat. Also, If you are using a mobile device (iPad, iPod, iPhone, etc....) and experience difficulties viewing the chat window, please initiate a new chat from a Windows or Mac computer or use a different browser for better compatibility.For DISCONNECTED or failed to reconnect, we keep records for all interactions feel free to initiate another chat.5:11 PM Justine: May I have the phone number and e-mail address associated with your HP product?5:11 PM Adam Colligan: [redacted]5:12 PM Justine: In order for me to assist you better, can you please provide the Product and Serial number of the system that is having an issue.5:13 PM Adam Colligan: Are the contents of the form I filled out not sent? The SN is [redacted] . This is a model G6T85UA5:15 PM Justine: Thank you for verifying me those information, Adam. I have read your issue description and it seems like you need help in processing a replacement for your computer's battery, is that correct?5:15 PM Adam Colligan: Yes.5:16 PM Justine: I apologize for the inconvenience. I will do my best to help you resolve this issue.5:19 PM Justine: Alright, regarding the incorrect information that our tech had provided you, what is that information again, Adam.5:20 PM Adam Colligan: My own hunch was confirmed by an independent service center that I had to pay to diagnose this problem: this machine has no dedicated RTC/CMOS battery. 5:20 PM Justine: -5:22 PM Justine: So the issue is that you went to a local tech and they are charging you for your battery replacement correct?5:22 PM Adam Colligan: So I wasted both a day of work and over $50 because two technical support representatives told me in no uncertain terms that I was looking at symptoms of a CMOS battery fault. And I *now* face also having to double that money on a new battery unless you guys can make it right.5:23 PM Adam Colligan: I paid for the diagnosis because they had to go in and determine that HP tech support was, for lack of a better phrase, full of it5:23 PM Adam Colligan: I even have a hilarious piece of transcript: 2:02 PM Adam Colligan: Look, here is a theory. What if this PC does not have a separate CMOS battery, and it's been using power from the main battery to keep the clock and BIOS settings current? In that case, the symptoms might just be a result of poor seating of the main battery cable. To rule that out, I would like to confirm for a fact that a CMOS battery actually exists on this motherboard, and I'd like to see it with my own eyes.2:02 PM Adam Colligan: ...before I go without my PC for days or weeks2:03 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery exsist in the motherboard and it is not a customer replaceable part. 2:04 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: You cannot see it. 5:25 PM Adam Colligan: I had even checked the x360 service manuals and compared them to other Envy models, since the CMOS / RTC battery is specified for the other ones. Hence this (apparently completely false) gem: KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would like to inform you that, the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part.2:24 PM Adam Colligan: What does that have to do with whether or not you know where it is?2:24 PM Adam Colligan: Is there some rule that you are not allowed to say "I don't know" ?2:24 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery can be replaced by the HP hardware engineers.5:25 PM Adam Colligan: Apparently the truth is that it's not in the manual because *it doesn't exist*5:27 PM Justine: I apologize about that, Adam. But to explain this properly, yes the CMOS battery is not a replaceable part. We do not ship CMOS batteries. But if you want, you can consult your local tech about it.5:28 PM Justine: May I ask why do you want the CMOS battery to be replaced, Adam?5:28 PM Adam Colligan: Oh my god.5:28 PM Adam Colligan: You're going to have to just give me a moment here.5:29 PM Justine: Okay Adam. Please take your time.5:31 PM Adam Colligan: Before I explain again, let me just ask a question or two. Let's say that, hypothetically, HP Support thought that I needed to replace my CMOS/RTC battery. So I ship it off. Imagine that it arrives at the service center and the techs there discover that there is nothing wrong with the CMOS battery. Instead, they find that the main battery has a short in it and needs to be replaced. Would I have to pay for the replacement of the main battery?5:32 PM Justine: Alright, first the repair process is that whatever that is we need to replace, we will. also, fortunately, your warranty covers the repair for this computer. We could send it for repair for you.5:33 PM Justine: Whether the CMOS battery or the main battery, we will fix this computer like brand new for you.5:34 PM Adam Colligan: And you're saying there is no charge for this?5:35 PM Justine: Yes Adam. 5:36 PM Justine: It will be for free.5:36 PM Justine: May I ask for your shipping address?5:37 PM Adam Colligan: Wait; see, I don't want to do that yet. How long would the whole shipping and repair process take?5:37 PM Adam Colligan: I've already been told that I have to go through the whole shipping nightmare even though I live right near an authorized service center5:38 PM Justine: Okay, we will ship you a box with a return label within 2-3 business days, then the repair process would be 7-9 business days maximum. This is for us to make sure that everything will be checked and diagnosed so that when it comes back to you, it would be like brand new.5:39 PM Justine: We could still send you the box if you want, the box would be active within 30 days, so you could decide when you want it to be dispatched.5:40 PM Adam Colligan: See, and that's the problem: I might rather just buy a new battery for $53 rather than be without my main work machine for 2 weeks+. 5:40 PM Adam Colligan: And so here's what happened:5:41 PM Justine: Well, if we send it for repair we can determine if it is really a CMOS issue or the main battery.5:41 PM Justine: But it would depend on your decision, Adam.5:44 PM Justine: Are you still there? I want to get your issue taken cared of today. Please respond if you are available to chat.5:44 PM Adam Colligan: In order to make that choice, I needed to know whether this could really be a CMOS battery issue. If it were, then I would have no choice but to send it in, because that would mean replacing the motherboard (or at a minimum re-soldering to it...so probably replacing it). I would probably also have to spend the time before and after the shipment taking the thing apart myself and putting it back together again because I have my own RAM and my own SSD in there. And so I discussed my symptoms (which included a CMOS checksum error) with two technical support representatives. The initial one was going to take me through a BIOS upgrade attempt and informed me that if it did not resolve, it would need to be sent in for a CMOS battery replacement. I think I had already let him know that I had looked for it just to check if there was anything obviously wrong and couldn't find it, and I had wondered if there really was one.5:46 PM Justine: Actually if it already gave a CMOS error, it is already that.5:46 PM Adam Colligan: In the end I did upgrade the BIOS, but when it appeared to work afterward, it was a coincidence. The ticket was closed but I discovered quickly that the problem was still there. It appeared that maybe I had partially charged the CMOS battery and so just needed to try running the machine for several hours to see if it would recharge. When that failed, I contacted HP again, which is where those snippets of transcript come from5:47 PM Connecting...5:47 PM Connected. A support representative will be with you shortly.5:47 PM Support session established with Justine.5:47 PM Adam Colligan: Once again, I was assured that this really was or could be a CMOS battery issue. I specifically raised my concern that there might not even be a CMOS battery, which is why I tried to focus the conversation on getting the rep to tell me where it is. She very directly and repeatedly told me that it was there -- which meant that I had no choice between a long service and replacing the battery myself.5:49 PM Justine: The issue is that the CMOS could have already failed so technically, even though it is physically there, the computer is not detecting it anymore. For this, since there is already an error with the CMOS, it should be replaced.5:50 PM Adam Colligan: But between the fact that the reps had not sounded competent and the possibility that it might be worth it to replace the CMOS battery myself and void the warranty, I was still suspicious. And that's why I found myself spending $54.13 for a third party service provider to tell me what HP should have known all along. This machine does not have a separate CMOS battery. When the main battery fails -- as mine has -- it will cause all the symptoms of a main battery failure *plus* the symptoms of a CMOS battery failure, since *the main battery* powers this board's real-time clock and RAM environment memory5:51 PM Justine: I could wait for your decision if you want to send it in for repair, Adam. I will still send you a box for the repair, that would be available for use within a month. It is still up for you to decide, Adam.5:51 PM Adam Colligan: And now you're saying the same thing: that my CMOS checksum error (and also my clock resetting) means there is a problem with the CMOS / RTC battery.5:51 PM Adam Colligan: Am I correct that that is what you are saying?5:52 PM Justine: I highly suggest sending it for repair, really. In this case we could provide a proper explanation in your issue.5:52 PM Adam Colligan: Are you or are you not telling me that I have a CMOS / RTC battery and that it might need to be replaced?5:53 PM Justine: Every motherboard has a CMOS battery, yours have already failed so it needs to be replaced.5:54 PM Adam Colligan: See, I think -- and the service center that just looked at it thinks -- that that statement is flat-out untrue. 5:54 PM Justine: You could replace it by yourself like what you want, but first, we do not ship CMOS batteries, and replacing it by yourself will jsut tamper the warranty.5:55 PM Adam Colligan: And so the important question is: will HP give me a free main battery, which I can install myself without needing to send the computer off, if it turns out that you just became rep #3 to give me false information?5:56 PM Justine: Actually, we cannot determine that without really having it physically here for further details and with sufficient tests. Our technicians will be testing it not just inside, but physically. 5:57 PM Adam Colligan: You don't need my computer in front of you in order to know whether or not this model *has* a CMOS battery. You are essentially swearing up and down that it has one. If you're wrong, then you've not only cost me the $54 I already spent but will also unnecessarily cost me two weeks+ without my computer5:57 PM Justine: I apologize but we can only replace the battery if we have the computer in question, and we cannot do that without the error in the main battery itself.5:57 PM Justine: Every computer has a CMOS battery, what I mean is that we have to perform tests on your computer physically to determine the real issue.5:57 PM Justine: I apologize about that.5:57 PM Adam Colligan: So I want to know: if it turns out that this model has no CMOS battery, will HP comp me a main battery in return for the time and money that it has already made me waste? 5:59 PM Justine: Actually, we can send you a box with a return label, so that you can decide. At this point we will just wait for your decision.5:59 PM Justine: We will only replace or provide on the part that neede to be replaced.6:00 PM Justine: The CMOS and the main battery has different roles, so we couldn't send you a main battery when it is a CMOS issue.6:00 PM Justine: Is that okay?6:00 PM Justine: May I ask for your shipping address please?6:01 PM Adam Colligan: That. That last thing you said. That is the heart of the whole problem! If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, then you would *know* you could just send me a main battery? 6:01 PM Adam Colligan: As long as it's not costing me anything, sure, send me a stupid box. My address is [redacted]6:02 PM Justine: If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, the main battery doesn't have anything to do with it. If it does not exist, we can send it for repair, since we do not send CMOS batteries. That is the only thing that we can do.6:02 PM Justine: Alright, is there anything else I could help you with?6:03 PM Adam Colligan: Oh lord. If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, then the main battery is the whole point, because it's the main battery that's supplying the power to the components that normally draw from the CMOS battery on most other systems.6:03 PM Adam Colligan: Nope, there's nothing else. You've provided another great transcript for the file.
7. In desperation, I try in vain to attract @HPSupport's attention on Twitter
Spoiler (Highlight to read)
@adamcolligan
6:20 PM - 13 Apr 2015
(1/3) Hey @HPSupport : would you make a wager with me? The question: whether 3 separate HP reps cost me $54.13 + 8 hrs' work with false info
@HPSupport (2/3) If I'm right, you send me a new battery for my x360-15t and say you're super sorry on your twitter feed. If I'm wrong...
@HPSupport then I guess no hilarious Reddit thread with support transcripts, and I'll spend like $1m on 2ml of your official ink. Deal?
@HPSupport (4/3) It's easy to resolve. Alls you have to do is know, and I mean *know*: "Does the G6T85UA have a dedicated RTC/CMOS battery?"
@adamcolligan6:20 PM - 13 Apr 2015(1/3) Hey @HPSupport : would you make a wager with me? The question: whether 3 separate HP reps cost me $54.13 + 8 hrs' work with false info@HPSupport (2/3) If I'm right, you send me a new battery for my x360-15t and say you're super sorry on your twitter feed. If I'm wrong...@HPSupport then I guess no hilarious Reddit thread with support transcripts, and I'll spend like $1m on 2ml of your official ink. Deal?@HPSupport (4/3) It's easy to resolve. Alls you have to do is know, and I mean *know*: "Does the G6T85UA have a dedicated RTC/CMOS battery?"
No response; not sure if I expected one or not.Update time! I know you've been dying to know how this has been turning out.
I provided all the requested information in response to the private message from HP staff. Nothing ever came of it; as far as I can tell, no real human being ever attempted to contact me after being "forwarded" the details of the case.
Three days after I tweeted at them, @HPSupport sent me a series of public replies. In essence, they told me to abandon useless post-sales technical support and get information from HP Sales.
Adam Colligan @AdamColligan · Apr 13
(1/3) Hey @HPSupport : would you make a wager with me? The question: whether 3 separate HP reps cost me $54.13 + 8 hrs' work with false info
Adam Colligan @AdamColligan · Apr 13
@HPSupport (2/3) If I'm right, you send me a new battery for my x360-15t and say you're super sorry on your
Adam Colligan @AdamColligan · Apr 13
@HPSupport then I guess no hilarious Reddit thread with support transcripts, and I'll spend like $1m on 2ml of your official ink. Deal?
Adam Colligan @AdamColligan · Apr 13
@HPSupport (4/3) It's easy to resolve. Alls you have to do is know, and I mean *know*: "Does the G6T85UA have a dedicated RTC/CMOS battery?"
Adam Colligan @AdamColligan Apr 13
@HPSupport No but seriously. Does the HP Envy x360 have a dedicated RTC / CMOS battery or not?
HP Support @HPSupport Apr 16
@AdamColligan Hello Adam, Eddie here. Saw your tweet. Our Product Information team will be able to assist with your inquiry. Dial:.. ^HPCare
HP Support @HPSupport Apr 16
@AdamColligan 1800-752-0900. Follow prompts for “product information”. If you prefer email click this link http://ow.ly/HYnHT .. ^HPCare
HP Support @HPSupport Apr 16
@AdamColligan Once there be sure to choose "Contact an HP sales specialist" as your subject. Let me know if you require further... ^HPCare
HP Support @HPSupport Apr 16
@AdamColligan information and/or assistance. Have an awesome day! Thanks! ^HPCare
Now, being the exhaustive give-it-a-try kind of guy that I am, I tried *both* the phone and the email path to support. I may have been told once on the phone to try the email, but it's hard to even remember at the moment. I'll just paste the email outcome here.
Me (into the webform):
HP reps have directed me to contact sales support after others in the company were unable to help with a technical product question. I need to know whether the HP Envy x360 model G6T85UA (should be board 780958-501 and main battery 760944-421) has a dedicated CMOS/RTC battery. If it does, I need to know *where* it is connected to the board. This is a fairly urgent issue for me implicating a disconnect or swap-out of the main battery while AC power is not being supplied.
HP:
Dear Adam,
Thank you for contacting the hp.com Sales Center.
I understand the you are still seeking resolution for your technical concern and I’m sorry to hear that this remains unresolved.
I'm very sorry, but our email sales team does not handle technical or product support concerns. We can only handles sales inquiries pertaining to orders placed in our store.
HP Technical Support will be able to provide you with service and support for hardware, software, and parts replacement of HP products that are still covered under warranty.
I strongly suggest that you contact the HP Technical Support Team since your matter requires technical expertise. HP Technical Support can best assist you and can be reached 24 hours a day at: http://www.hp.com/contacthp
Below is step by step guide how to obtain the webform/online form:
1. Please copy and paste this link http://www.hp.com/contacthp into a new browser.
2. Please enter your model number in the "Enter my model number" search field provided then hit the "Find my product" button to generate the result.
3. Select the correct product from the search results.
4. On the next page wait for a few seconds to load the webform.
5. Scroll down to find the webform.
5. Complete the webform then hit the "Submit" button.
6. After you fill out the online form, you will receive a Technical Support case number. You will also be able to engage with a Tech Support product specialist either by chat or they will give you a call at your earliest convenience.
By the way, I have seen a link which might help you with this concern. Here's the link:
http://partsurfer.hp.com/Search.aspx?SearchText=G6T85UA
The link shows the the HP ENVY 15-U011DX X360 CONVERTIBLE PC (ENERGY STAR) has the 780958-501 motherboard but has a different battery. It doesn't show also the RTC Battery and where you can find it. Please contact our HP Technical Support for other information.
I hope this information has been of assistance to you, Adam. Please reply to this message if there is anything further we can do. For your convenience, you may also call the HP.com Sales Center directly at 1-888-222-0029 between 7:00 AM - 2:00 AM EST, seven days a week.
Customer Satisfaction is our store’s top priority. Please tell us about your email experience today. To participate, please click on our Customer Satisfaction Survey link below.
Thank you for choosing HP. We appreciate your business.
Regards,
Regine G.
Oh dear. So technical support doesn't have technical information about HP machines, and sales support doesn't answer technical questions about HP machines and refers you to technical support. Brilliant. But by this time, I of course knew better than to actually *believe* what someone was telling me, so I used the sales phone number instead.
The sales guy was super eager to help, especially since I framed this as a problem of future use. I work on disaster vulnerability issues. If I buy Envy x360 15ts and use them in a place where there isn't AC power for a while, can I swap spare batteries into them without screwing up the BIOS and real-time clock settings?
He put me on hold two or three times for what I was led to believe were very thorough attempts to get me a totally definitive answer. And this is what someone eventually told him to tell me. All HP machines ship with CMOS batteries.
So I must have been mistaken all along, right? The CMOS battery must have stopped working at the same time as the main battery. It must just be that neither I nor my local repair shop could find my CMOS battery because we all have the wrong prescriptions on our glasses and contact lenses. Well, there's just one small issue with getting to that conclusion: what HP told me about my machine was, once again, totally false.
How do I know? Because I still didn't believe HP, and rather than shipping my compter off for weeks in the big padded box, I ordered a new main battery for a total of just over $60. I swapped it. Guess what happened, HP? If you guessed, "every aspect of the problem instantly resolved, because there never was a CMOS/RTC battery in this machine in the first place", you would win a gold star. But I'm assuming you'd also lose your job, because this particular piece of information has somehow been banished and outlawed from the minds of HP employees and contractors.
I wonder: would anybody at HP be interested in apologizing to me, much less in finding a way to make up for the $115+ I've lost because nobody at any stage to this point has been willing to act like a human being?
BUT WAIT, THERE'S GREAT NEWS
I shouldn't make it seem through this thread that HP totally lacks competence and doesn't care about me at all. Because within two hours of receiving the email from HP Sales telling me that they weren't going to do anything about my problem, I started receiving advertising email blasts full of great offers and promotions about buying a new HP laptop and other great products! Yay! I guess I'm not invisible after all. And I'm sure if I bought *more* stuff from HP, they would take care of me then. Right? -
X121e randomly wake up from suspended status and real time clock error
Hi all
Previously I considered my x121e suffer from overheating issue and causes real time clock error (RTC). However, after more testing and investigation, I believe the problem is related to other hardware issues and I like to hear people opinion before sending the laptop back to Lenovo.
The machine goes into suspend status either pressing the power button or closing the lid from Windows7 (clean install) without problem. However, it would wake up itself randomly, "beep" twice and screen shows RTC and CMOS checksum error. This happen more often when I am holding the machine (i.e. some movement/vibration). I wonder:
- Is it the RTC battery problem, cause the RTC to wake up the machine?
- Other hardware failure?
The laptop has a clean OS installed/recovered. Latest 1.16 Bios installed. No USB or memory card attached. Ram replaced and not the cause.
Please advise
HowardHello,
I am unsure; you would have to contact Lenovo directly and find out how they handle this situation. They may want the ThinkPad X121e back so they can run thorough diagnostics on it, just in case the problem is something else. That way it gets fixed the first time.
Regards,
Aryeh Goretsky
I am a volunteer and neither a Lenovo nor a Microsoft employee. • Dexter is a good dog • Dexter je dobrý pes
S230u (3347-4HU) • X220 (4286-CTO) • W510 (4318-CTO) • W530 (2441-4R3) • X100e (3508-CTO) • X120e (0596-CTO) • T61p (6459-CTO) • T43p (2678-H7U) • T42 (2378-R4U) • T23 (2648-LU7)
Deutsche Community Comunidad en Español Русскоязычное Сообщество -
I have the Neo 2 Plat
I cleared the cmos the way the directions said by moving the jumper to slots 2-3 when the comp was off. Then I moved the jumper to 1-2 turned the comp back on and got the following error.
CMOS Checksum error-defaults loadedThat's actually normal. Just press the key to enter setup. Basically what that message is telling you that the default settings have been loaded.
-
K7N2GM-V - Please re-setting CPU Frequencies in the CMOS Setup (sic)
Rebooting after a system hang I sporadically get the following messages:
CMOS Checksum error - Defaults Loaded
Warning! the CPU had changed.
Please re-setting CPU Frequencies in the CMOS Setup
Could someone please translate this for me? I haven't touched the CPU, the CMOS jumper and the battery is good, per the hardware detection menu.
And my CMOS settings are lost, so I have to go back and set the clock, disable the floppy I don't have, boot order, etc.The battery contacts are clean; in or out of the case the mobo boots fine as long as I don't pull the plug.
But for the answer to my original question, what does this mean:
Please re-setting CPU Frequencies in the CMOS SetupThe Quick User's Guide is not useful here. It says:
Adjust CPU FSB Frequence
This setting allows you to select the CPU Front Size Bus clock frequency. Settings [100MHz]~[300MHz] at 1MHz increment.
In fact with High Performance Mode set to Optimized the choices are only 100, 133, 166, 200, and the answer given is correct:
Quote from: osnavi on 28-July-05, 22:27:47
"...Do you mean the BIOS setting "Adjust CPU FSB FRequency?"
The choices there are 100, 133, 166, 200... " If CPU is 333 FSB you should select 166.
In other words, in the BIOS set up screen, go to Cell Menu and then Adjust CPU FSB Frequency and set it to ½ the advertised frequency of your Athlon CPU. -
Lenovo G550 CMOS Battery replacement
Hi, I have a Lenovo G550 which sometimes fails to start. If left for a few days it eventually starts up. When it does finally start there is a "check date and time" error on the boot menu. When I go into the bios settings I find that the date and time has returned to default. So I set the correct date and time, reboot and all is well until the next time.
After reading this forum I believe it is a CMOS Battery error.
Is it possible for me to replace this battery? If so where is it located on the mother board?
Thanks in Advancecan you remove the bottom panel of the laptop?
Regards,
Jin Li
May this year, be the year of 'DO'!
I am a volunteer, and not a paid staff of Lenovo or Microsoft -
PM8M-V CMOS needs clearing on every reboot, :censored:?
Hey guys,
Just picked up a MSI board in my feeble attempt to build up a PC from scratch and retire my old Dell. I actually started with an Elitegroup PT800CE-A, since it could also house my CPU, but I had the same problem, and thought the board to be bad. Here's the rundown:
With bare essentials installed (CPU, fansink, RAM, monitor to integrated video port, PSU), I power on the board. Initially, everything gets power, the cpu fan spins, etc. However, the monitor just sits there in standby mode, displaying nothing. This is the case everytime, until I clear the CMOS by switching the jumper. I swap back and power up, and the monitor kicks on, showing the Award BIOS. It gives me "CMOS checksum error", as well as "CPU ratio changed fail." It tells me to change CMOS settings and save, which I do. Upon exiting Setup, it hangs again, putting the monitor back in standby, forcing me to clear CMOS again. I went ahead and hooked up the hard drive and CD-ROM, skipped the errors, and installed Win XP, hoping that I could get online and get a BIOS update that might fix the problem. According to LiveUpdate, though, I have the current version.
I've read on this board and other places that the CMOS battery might be the problem. I've tried taking it out for a minute, and I've even tried swapping it with my known good one from the old PC, but the problem persists. I'm pretty much out of ideas. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. I've put the build in my sig.hi jester,
after clearing the cmos, the error messages that you are facing in the bios are very normal.
cmos checksum error: the default settings in your bios are incorrect, causing your system in capable to boot to OS.
cpu ratio changed failed: your CPU settings in the bios does not match with the phyiscal specifications of your CPU.
Once you have gain access to the bios, do your own bios settings, and make sure that you have enabled the onboard graphics. Once all the required settings are done, save settings to cmos and exit from bios.
after you have exit from the bios, your system will restart. check to see whether the error messages still appear. The messages should not appear at this time if the bios settings are correct and OS should start loading.
Once the OS is loaded and running, shut down your system for 1 minute. power it up again and see whether the problem still persists. if ok, then good for you. but if not ok, then its the battery on your motherboard that is not doing the job. Since u have changed to another good battery, then very likely is the poor battery contact point. RMA your board for another new one.
good luck -
HDX18 CMOS Battery replacement
Hi. Lately my HP HDX18-1008TX has an error message of "CMOS checksum error" whenever I boot up the laptop. I assumed the CMOS battery is dead. How do I change the CMOS battery and where to buy the battery replacement?
Thank you for your advice.Hi,
You can buy from HP (part #449729-001) for US$44.8 as shown in the following link:
http://h20141.www2.hp.com/Hpparts/Search_Results.aspx?mscssid=2FE7EF80A8C64E0199E13B411E60D911&Searc...
or you can buy a CR2032 battery from every where for aroound US$3.00 (3 bucks). It's your choice.
You also need the following manual which show you where and how to put a new battery to your machine.
http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c01705400.pdf
Regards.
BH
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