Color conversion : special behavior with Spot Color "All"

Hello,
I have a document with printmarks which have a spot color "All". While I convert the page using the "Color conversion" to Gray 1.8 with Adobe Acrobat X the spot color "All" are still present (with the alternate color space DeviceGray).
Using Adobe Acrobat 9.x all objects have a DeviceGray color.
Is it a bug or a new behavior? Moreover the SDK method doesn't convert the spot color but keep the name (but I know this is not the right place to post it - it's just for information).
Regards,
Joe

I sense you may not understand the difference between sopt and process colors in the printing process.
When you use process inks you build all color representations by combining dots of varying sizes from each of the four process colors, cyan, magenta, yellow, and black. Because the dots are two small to be seen individually your brain is fooled into thinking it sees other colors. Process color printing requires four printing plates to produce the full range of colors possible, but that range is limited compared to what you can see in real life or capture in RGB.
Spot colors, in contrast, are similar to paint. Each color is mixed individually, and every spot color requires its own plate on the printing press (and you must use a press -- toner and inkjet printers use cmyk inksets and cannot print real spot colors). Because of the expense of these plates, the use of spot colors is usually limited to one or two colors in any print job, and if the job has other color (like photographs) that requires process inks, converting the spot colors to the closest process simulation is often employed if the spot colors can be simulated "close enough" to satisfy the client and the budget is tight.
I would avoid using process colors for type in small sizes or for very thin strokes, especially in lighter colors, as you are likely to see ragged edges.
So, how many spot color swatches did you use? More than two? More than four? Do you have a huge budget to produce the work? This may be a project that really should be designed from the ground up as process, or process and one spot for that hard to print bright accent color.

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I am still working on the process to automate the conversion of PDF file with RGB color profile to Spot.
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SproetS wrote:
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What is the difference between Cyan or PANTONE Reflex Blue?
Excepting that they are both defined colors...everything about them is different.
Consider this - c, m, y, k are all spot colors. They are base colors, not different (to me) than Warm Red, Rhodamine Red, Reflex Blue, Pantone Green, Pantone Purple, Pantone Violet, Pantone Rubine Red, there are a few others..
In you color pallet, Yellow is not a spot color - it is a mix of (typically) y and 0~20% m.
Same for each color in the default pallet - 0~100% of c,m,y,k
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Many spot colors cannot be accurately reproduced in the cmyk spectrum.
It is also true that you can work in CMYK and tell the printer to put a different ink instead of the a Cyan, Megenta, Yellow or Black ink. The project I work on now involves four Pantone spot colors and a few illustrators how need/want to see what they are doing, so...
Those days are gone. You would need to be more familair with the hammer and screw approach to avoid overprint mistakes, tints are not the same as transparencies, many hurdles here that have long been forgotten. What you would see on screen would be nothing near to the actual project.
It should be determined before preceeding if the project will be printed cmyk or as 4 spot colors.

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Hi all,I
Please respond to this as soon as possible since this is now in printing stage we need to send it immediately.
Adobe disabled attachment, I just made a screenshot and sending you the image as attachment for your reference.
The design has "Black" overlapping on "Blue" giving transparent on Blue color, see the pdf for reference.
Please not that there is no transparency in "Black" or any other color used in that page.
This is related to "preserve overprint" problem, when I switch off the preserve overprint in "distiller" setting I am getting the correct result but "Black" become "Knockout" instead of "overprint".
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Can I have "All spots to process" checked at all times, even for new spot colors?

When I check “All spots to process” in the pdf export settings and save my settings the settings remember that I've checked this option. But, if new spot color objects using new spot color swatches are added to the document (or another document) and I go into the pdf export settings the check mark has been changed into a dash (with the actual checkbox highlighted) – signifying that only some of of the spot colors will be changed to process colors during export. I absolutely fail to see how this could possibly be seen as a feature and not a bug … if the user has checked “ALL spots to process” wouldn't the user expect ALL spots to be converted to process colors, rather than just any spot colors that happened to be in the document that happened to be open when the user first checked that checkbox and saved that setting?
Am I missing something here? What's the point of even having that checkbox as part of your saved export settings if it doesn't include any other spot colors than those used when saving the settings?
What's the point of having settings if you can't trust them, and still need to manually "override" them every time?
I see that some users have taken to writing scripts that instead turn all spot colors in the swatch panel to process colors, and while I commend them for creating that workaround, I'm still pissed at Adobe for not getting the function right.
If this is a feature, who is it for? People who want to add just certain spot colors and turn those into process colors rather than turning all spot colors into process colors are surely better off doing that in the swatches panel, where they're in total control of what's what. And if they don't want to "permanently" change their spot colors to process colors, and prefer to (temporarily) convert them during exporting/printing only, they can do that in the ink manager. But when someone checks convert "All spots to process" couldn't we safely assume they really want ALL spot colors to be converted and not just some of them? I mean, the way that checkbox behaves now, it's like it's a button and not a checkbox. As in: hit the button "All spots to process" to switch all currently viewed spot colors to process colors in the ink manager, OR check the "All spots to process" checkbox to always convert ALL spot colors to process colors during exporting/printing.
Anyone got any light to shed on this?
And is there a way to actually get the advertised behavior, because if you have to run a script every time you export/print you might as well just manually select the checkbox every time instead, but either way it's just really unnecessary as far as I'm concerned … Adobe should get the feature right instead.
If you save a setting and recall it, it shouldn't be possible for that setting to change into something else (in this case changing a checkmark to a dash).
Clearly CMYK printing is the norm, so for most users it would make a lot of sense to have the "All spots to process" checked most of the time, and then you just go into the swatches panel or the ink manager and set things correctly for those print jobs that really do need spot colors.
I myself am not one of those who add spot colors to my swatches unless I'm really using them as spot colors, but I often work with magazines and folders featuring adverts made by whoever, and typically there's always at least one advert that features spot colors, and therefore it would be very nice if the "All spots to process" feature actually worked as advertised without any required actions from me.
We stopped sending ads back to the advertisers for adjustments a long time ago, unless we absolutely had to, because there were so many things wrong with so many ads that it was simply too much work to write back and explain everything to people who most of the time didn't even understand what we were talking about. We found that it was usually a LOT faster and easier to just adapt the ads ourselves, as long as it was something that could be worked out really quickly from within InDesign itself, which pretty much included most typical errors.
But with this feature I find Adobe is trying to make my job harder rather than easier, and it's pissing me off. Arrrghh… ;-)

But It's not a preference it's a shortcut
It's a bad joke, is what it is. ;-)
So, why in your opinion should it be presented the way it is? I keep saying in it's current functionality it shouldn't be presented the way it is (and that: if it is, it shouldn't work the way it does). If it's not a preference or even a proper checkbox, why present it that way?
If you put it right next to the table at the top of the window (so that it's directly associated with that information, rather than information right above it) and just called the checkbox “Spot(s) to process” and had it only visually reflect the content of the sleected spot colors in the table, then I'd see your point with likening it to the “Hyphenate” checkbox.
If a story has two selected paragraphs that uses two different hyphenation settings then the checkbox should present the way it does now, but if you hit the checkbox so that both paragraphs now use hyphenation and create a third paragraph inbetween the two previous ones it better inherit that setting and not turn off hyphenation for the new paragraph (unless of course there's a defined next paragraph style that switches to a style with hyphenation turned off). And if that checkbox said “Hyphenate all paragraphs” instead, then I would expect it to do just that, and not just the selected ones, and not just the current paragraphs but quite literally all paragraphs even newly created ones – otherwise it doesn't do what it says it does, and simply shouldn't be labeled that way.
And seriously bad interface design aside, you'd have to rename “All spots to process” to “Switch all currently displayed spot swatches listed in the table above to process” to actually describe what that checkbox does. So even if you're a fan of the current functionality, as opposed to one that actually lets the user set and forget a setting like that, and think it's better that users manually check it repeatedly (which I'm not saying that you are, but you're not giving me any feedback suggesting you even see my point of view with any of this, so what do I know?), then why wouldn't you still support an interface that visually matches/signals that functionality better? If it's a “Select all” checkbox supplementing a table containing a column of checkboxes, then present it that way. Don't put it at the bottom of the window next to another checkbox that works just like a regular checkbox and label it “All spots to process” – because that way you are signalling a different behavior.
Seriously, if I was to do design using the same mentality that Adobe uses when designing their user interfaces it wouldn't be long before I lost all clients. There's a lot to be said for de facto monopolies, I suppose. Oh no, there's nothing wrong with the design, just as long as you accept it on it's own terms and don't compare it to anything relevant, and just as long as you give people enough time to understand and accept it … and surrender to it.
For real … I wouldn't win one single pitch that way.
Today's threads have in many ways been a thorough reminder of the following quote from the second link I provided:
Is there an Internet rule yet stating that even the most obviously indefensible mistake will eventually be defended by someone somewhere? Awful marketing efforts get explained as genius viral campaigns, broken features become solutions.
And whether or not you're able to see my point of view or not is really besides the point too.
The real point was, and remains to be:
That for those who receive lots of ads or other external files that may or may not contain spot colors it would be far more useful to be able to set a checkbox to always convert all spots to process when exporting, than the current functionality is (and I'm not suggesting eliminating the current functionality, just change so it's presented like what it really is, and then just let that separate checkbox do what it says) … causing unnecessary manual action on the user's behalf shouldn't be the business of Adobe – preventing it should.
And here's further reading on the subject of bad Adobe interface design for those who might feel so inclined. ;-)
Cheers!

IMPOSSIBLE TO SELECT SPOT COLOR LAYER AS I DID WITH CS2

Hello, I'm a french user (sorry for my english). I'm used to proceed with jobs that are using PSD files with spot colors layers. With AI CS2,
a PSD file with spot color layer I was able to select each layer to change its color, its transparency or its order. With CS4, all spot channels are embedded in a single layer. It's really a problem for me. May somebody help me. Thank you. Pierre-Yves

Yes, in CS4 it is all one layer in CS 5 it is on different layers if they are spot channels.
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Color conversion : special behavior with Spot Color "All"

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