Color grading with scopes?

Hello everyone,
When color grading in After Effects, is there a reference scope built in? If so, I haven't been able to find it?
Can anyone suggest a good workflow for color grading with AE... For example, I have simple grading to do consisting of mainly balancing colors, but would like a way to check my work.
Any ideas?
Thanks
Bgub.

Here's where to start when looking for information about Color Finesse:
"Resources for Synthetic Aperture Color Finesse"

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Need To Purchase Color Grading Monitor Today. Please Help

I've been color-correcting via the 3-Way plugin in FCP for years. At SD, normally DV, resolution via Firewire out to a color, CRT broadcast monitor. So now I'm color grading with Apple Color. Love it. But, I need a new output device and monitor. I say I need a new monitor b/c I now work (sometimes) at HD resolution. It's not often but I do. So my question are:
• Overall which card and monitor combo should I get?
• Should I stick with a SD CRT since most of my work is SD?
• And, if I do, can I still color-correct HD projects with it when the time comes?
• Should I do some type of HD monitor set-up?
Right now I'm working with the following:
• Dual 3Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xeon G5 Tower
• 8GB RAM
• NVIDIA GeForce 7300GT
• 1 Apple Cinema Display and 1 Wacom Cintiq display

Jonathon,
Did you not read my very post to your question? I answered this question for you. Look above, you'll see I tell you that the Kona LHe downconverts hd on the fly and I view it through component analong in my Sony PVM. I don't mind helping but you've asked this question 3 times now.
Worst case scenario (I guess) would be to down convert the HD footage to SD and color-correct in FCP via a Firewire and a SD CRT monitor. Correct? And if that's the case how would you do the the down conversion before the color-correction?
Yes, that is a very worst case scenario and one you should avoid. Personally, shooting hd to deliver in sd makes no sense to me at all. Darn near every show I've worked on this year is acquired in hd and then broadcast in sd and we use hardware downconverters that are horrendously expensive and yet the product is marginal.
If this is the workflow you're going to use, you'll want to use Compressor to change formats but geez, why on earth would you do this when a Kona LHe will do everything you want it to, right out of the box.

After Effects for color grading

Hello. I requested as a new feature the next:
"A special timeline only for import EDL, with only three layers, for video A, B and a transition layer between both, and also perhaps several adjustment layers above, for professional color grading with effects as Colorista 2, for example. After Effects is more suitable for color grading than Premiere for its color management, precise control (mask, tracker, etc) and OpenGL realtime playback. Color grading in the current timeline is possible with only 10-20 layers, but with +100 layer is very dificult, almost impossible.
Also will be interesting the full screen playback mode as Premiere on desktop second monitor, for video preview."
Do you think this is a good idea?

Don't be too anxious to get an entire feature into AE as a single project. Back in the day when we cut and spliced film we worked with a maximum reel size of 1000 feet. That's 10 minutes. Even the colorist at the lab only worked on 1000 feet at a time. When It's time for me to color grade in AE I render to a nearly lossless or lossless 10 bit codec segments or scenes of the movie that go together so that I'm not dealing with every shot.
This is actually the same way I cut. I cut Scenes together as individual sequences then I drag all of the scenes into a new timeline that is the movie. If a scene needs work then I just open up that scene's timeline and make the changes. This is easier in the long run, faster, and especially easier when you're trying to fine tune the story and the performances. I know a lot of editors that work this way. I've never seen anyone with a bunch of experience just start at 00:00:00;00 and start cutting a show from the first shot to the last. I've never known anyone that was that good.

Conform from edl, replace mov with color graded dpx seq

Hi all,
I successfully import the edl from FCP to PPro with the correct in and out points for each clip.
The source files of that FCP edit are .mov, but now, I need to replace all the .mov in my bin with color graded .dpx sequence.
I tried both right click > replace footage, and right click > link media to try linking it to .dpx, but I can only link it to a single .dpx file instead of a dpx sequence.
Is is possible to do that on PPro?
Thanks
(sorry for my bad english)

Hi all,
I successfully import the edl from FCP to PPro with the correct in and out points for each clip.
The source files of that FCP edit are .mov, but now, I need to replace all the .mov in my bin with color graded .dpx sequence.
I tried both right click > replace footage, and right click > link media to try linking it to .dpx, but I can only link it to a single .dpx file instead of a dpx sequence.
Is is possible to do that on PPro?
Thanks
(sorry for my bad english)

Rescuing shots from a graded Color seq with shots on both V1 and V2

Hi guys
I could have sworn I watched a Lynda tutorial that showed it was okay to use both V1 and V2 before sending to Color 2.0.2. On forums since I have now realised that only V1 is really the only way.
Anyway, since sending back to FCP I have some shots which have flashed, ungraded, weird-looking frames of the beginning of each of the faulty shots. i tried 'send to FCP' a few times but still get the wonky-weird frames at the beginning of each of the shots.
I brought the original shots into a new FCP seq, sent to Color, graded them, then rendered (no signs of weirdness) and sent back to FCP. However, when I tried to incorporate the same shots into the main previously graded sequence the weird fault appears again on the freshly, individually-all-graded-using-only-V1 shots.
What can I do please to get rid of the weird flash?
Thanks in advance!
Peter

That could be it JP - a bug in the handles.
Could you reread my previous post - I had edited it to include an extra paragraph at the end and reposted just as you did your most recent post please.
The extra bit I did is a description of how the problem appears to remain regardless of handles, but I'm hoping it will go away if I rerender all the shots without handles?
I'm rerendering all my shots with handles set to 0 right now. Fingers crossed!
Just to update:
I have changed my handles to 0 and am all set to re-render. However, I notice the weird flash remains at the beginning of some shots...let me describe...
In the COLOR timeline if I use the down arrow to move to a shot. Once on this shot, if I press the left arrow once I move back one frame and I see the weird warped image (either too high contrast or some other funkiness). Weird thing is, despite the contents of this frame belonging entirely to the shot I originally 'down-arrowed' to...the previous shot becomes selected?!

HD TV or LCD monitor with HDMI,DVI supported to preview and color grading

Finally I got my canon HFS100 and Intensity Pro now what type of the monitor should I get to preview and color grading video via intensity pro between HD TV or LCD monitor with HDMI,DVI supported and how to calibrate monitor via intensity pro.
Please help.
narkin

The main downside is that an HDTV is designed to be used at TV viewing distance. So it would work fine for presentations, where the audience is sitting more than 5 feet away. But at typical computer screen distance of 2-3 feet, it is the same 1920x1080 pixels spread out over a 32-inch screen. Oh, actually, that HDTV you mentioned is only "720p", which is only 1280x720. That may not look all that good at TV distance either, if you are displaying images that are static (non-motion).
Your eyes will have to work harder to see the same screen real estate, because everything is bigger on the screen. Images and text will not look as sharp (more pixelated) because each pixel is larger. It won't be like using a 30-inch Cinema Display, which has 2560x1600 pixels. Each pixel on that 32-inch 720p HDTV is more than 4 times larger.
A 1080p HDTV would be somewhat better, because that is 1920x1080 resolution.

Question about "Native ISO" and Color Grading in PP

I have a question about "Native ISO" in the real world and how it relates to color grading. I was shooting 35mm film before all these digital cameras became flat-out amazing practically overnight. Then the goal was always to shoot with the lowest ISO possible to achieve the least amount of grain (unless you were making an artistic decision to get that look). If I was shooting outside plus had a nice lighting package I'd shoot 5201/50 ASA (Daylight) and 5212/100 ASA (Tungsten) 99 times out of 100.
I've recently been shooting a lot with the Blackmagic 4K and have read that its "Native ISO" is 400. Because of my film background this seems counter-intuitive. Yesterday I was shooting for a client and had the camera at an f16 with a 200 ISO. Because of what I'd read, I was tempted stop down to an f22 and change my ISO to 400... but the "little film voice in my head" just wouldn't let me do it. It kept telling me "Higher ISO means more noise... stay at 200 and you will get a cleaner image".
So how does it work with "Native ISO"? Should I really shoot at a 400 ISO every chance I get in order to capture the best image for how the camera is calibrated? Will it really give me more latitude when color grading? Or would I still get a cleaner image staying at ISO 200? I've Googled around quite, but haven't found any articles that answer specifically this question. Would love to hear from someone who knows a bit more on the subject or has a link that could point me in the right direction.
Thanks much.

Hey, shooter ... yea, interesting discussion and always nice to learn. Great pic, too!
jamesp2 ...
Great answer. I've followed quite a bit of the discussion about the BM cams as well, one does feel a need to check out the possibilities for that next beastie one will need to acquire. But ... which one?
I've always been a bit of a hard-case about testing testing testing. For instance, what happens with dome down or use of a flat diffuser vs. dome in the up position in metering? Back in the film days, we had our own lab and did our own printing as well as the um ... difficult images ... from other studios. I needed to know how to get exactly the same diffuse highlight no matter whether it was a "standard" light 3:1 studio shot, or a near-profile with no fill that needs dark shadows. I tested & burned through boxes of medium-format polaroid & 120 film and a lot of color paper. Finding? To get the same print time no matter the contrast or lighting style, needed to be metered either with the flat disc (Minolta) or dome-down (Sekonic) and held at the highlight-location pointed at the main light source. I could meter and nail the exposure every time. Ahh no, insist so many ... one must have the dome on/up and pointed at the camera! Right. Do that, change the contrast, and see what happens to your diffuse forehead highlight on a densitometer ... and see how your printing exposure times change. Oh, and you've just moved your center-of-exposure up or down on the film's H&D curve, which will also change the way the shadows & highlights print. In truth, though it was subtle, we had realistically no matter latitude for a best-case image with pro neg film as one had with chromes. You could probably get away with being "off" easier, but it still wasn't dead-on.
So wading into video ... oi vey, you may have noticed the things claimed here there & everywhere ... this setting is God's Gift to Humanity but no, it's total crap ... this sensor is totally flawed but someone else is certain it's the finest piece out there. Yes, opinions will be all over ... but ... in film, it was the densitometer. In video, it's the scopes. Truth. And getting to that can be a right pain. I've seen quite a few contradictory comments about using the BM cams in film mode and also at ISO 200. Yours above gives the most ... comforting? ... explanation (for me) because of your reference to your scopes & the waveform patterns. Thank you.
Love to learn ...
Neil

Color: grading before or after SmoothCam??

I can't believe I'm asking this. I just finished a film full of SmoothCam. And I can't remember if I created the SmoothCam before or after I sent the show to Color. Does it make a difference? Mmmm. I'm thinking that if Color is being 'rendered' out, does this mean the SmoothCam has to be applied BEFORE the show goes to Color?
Ben

Hi Shane, and I bet it was you who told me all this about two weeks ago, for the last film. Thank you for your patience. I'd already converted the whole show to ProRes; I'm doing that now, whatever the original format. So the clips sent to Color are only the actual length of the shot plus 2 seconds either side.
I'm hooked on Color now. The one thing I notice different (aside from the funky little details you can play with, multiple grading, vignettes and all) is that the shows are much more even, shot to shot. I'm using the Scopes a lot more than I ever used them in FCP. I can see the difference. It's reminding of way back when, when I was in a color grading studio in Toronto at $650 hr. and the technician NEVER looked at the actual image, only at his scopes. And I kept wanting him to do things with the color (that I'd done easily in Media 100, staying within Broad cast), but he was sooooo hooked on his scopes and some weird old rigid set of criteria. A battle it was. He won. At $650 hr. you don't want to drag it out very much.
All the best, and thanks again,
B

HP DreamColor Monitor for FCP Color grading

Hello, apologies that I posted this question also on the beginners video forum.
I am about to get a new Mac Pro set up specifically for color grading as I am a cinematographer and need more control over small projects where there is no budget for color grading of images at professional post houses. My vendor suggests using the 24" HP DreamColor LP 2480zx monitor driven from a Black Magic Intensity Pro card using the HDMI output. I have read conflicting reports and read a huge amount on forums such as Creative Cow about this but still not convinced I can get full 30bit grading from a Mac OS X using this monitor. I am in Australia and most projects here are in PAL format in HD at 1080p25 or 50i. I use FCP 7.
Any advice please?

are you saying I should look at Da Vinci Resolve to grade? Why?
It depends on whether you're a day-in and day-out business, and your preferred workflow. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. The Balckmagic-branded daVinci has a number of internal core processing advantages, a tracker that works, far superior color science, especially in secondary processing, but suffers from an old, "tape-to-tape" single-layer capability. However, it is truly "real-time", but that isn't as important to some.
The latest version of Resolve supports multiple-GPU processing on Mac, so the difference between the OSX offering and the much more expensive LInux may not be that great in actual performance. You can build a faster machine with more hardware.
The question... is it the software or controller that makes is (sic) so good? misses the point. Its a synergy of elements, just like good grading itself.
jPo

LCD for Color Grading

I'll need to dive into Color when I finish editing my one-hour long documentary in a couple months. The doc is intended to be shown on a large theatre screen one time, then broadcast on community-access television and lent through our regional public library system on DVD. My question(s): Can the Apple 30" Cinema Display be used for color grading? Or HP's 2480zx LCD Monitor? Would the Spyder3Elite Display Calibration product be useful? Thanks in advance.

Interestingly enough, the options for trying to push a computer text display into being a grade monitor are narrowing down to nothing. The harder people have been trying to make a silk purse out of these sow's ears has resulted in the inevitable conclusion that hey, there really is no such thing as free lunch. Even the vaunted ACD's after watching two of them for nearly three years now, can't hold a calibration for more than a couple of hours and then go magenta. Its because we need so much green to make D65 white. Those poor green dots just peter out and then red and blue take over. So you better be fast, because you will be working with a different monitor for the second half of the day.
An interesting thread on a pro telecine site has been discussing the HP Dreamcolor... the general conclusion is that it is probably great for a cubicle farm full of compositing and animation artists who more need a match between them than truly accurate colorimetry. At least its consistent. A high end grading device company member warned against using certain types of "probes", since at varying resolutions of display, you really have no idea what the thing is integrating to come up with a white point.
One of the really huge things that is missing is the ENVIRONMENT that the grade is taking place in. Sure, the monitor is important... but almost equally so is the room in which it is situated... its ambient illumination and the requirement for a constant contrast neutral 18% D65 background against which to judge the monitor itself, not just what it is trying to display.
That's one of the reasons that the COLOR GUI is that "ugly" grey.... even though its probably not grey at all if the monitor you're using to display it is whacked. Every time you look at it... it is influencing the balance of your target image. Imagine you're the beer taster at the world's finest brewery.... and what (hold on a minute while I savour the fantasy.... okay, I'm back) but between samples you take a big gulp of vinegar. Right. Is that going to work?
jPo

Color grading - Munsell Hue Vision Test

Just thought I'd change the subject from all of this FCPX talk...
I was watching something about color grading and the Munsell Hue Test came up... I googled it and found this:
www (dot) colormunki (dot) com / game / huetest_kiosk
Anyhow, it's pretty neat (I scored 100%, woohoo!...)

mishmumken wrote:
My score was 67 ...
my score is 18 ...
and as far as I understand the scale, that is not too far from perfect (=0) ...
with a 10y old monitor, never color proofed

Color Grading won't export in fcpx 10.1.2

Ive noticed this has been happening recently on a lot of my projects since updating:
Been getting very sporadic color grades upon export, as in some clips will receive the grade while others won't. I can't seem to find an issue related to any of my media, as Ive tried multiple tests of optimizing the media, trying to start a new project, reimporting all of the media, deleting the render files, and nothing seems to work. Ive noticed it does happen more often when I paste attributes but I've done a test of going through and applying a preset manually and it still wont export with the grade.
Deleting the render files on one project seemed to work well although I found there was a clip or two that still didnt export with the grade.
Im getting frustrated and nervous now though as I have a color grading job that needs to be finished very soon and I will have a client that will be very angry.
Ive noticed on a few other threads this seems to be a common problem with the update and its quite annoying Apple hasn't fixed this bug or brought it up. Im hoping some people have found a workaround?
Mahalo

Did you try toggling on and off?
That bug never bit me, so I can't say first hand that 10.1.3 cured what was wrong with 10.1.2. However, judging from the posts on this forum, it has, Here are the release notes.
Final Cut Pro X: Version 10.1.3 release notes
Russ

Advice for logical workflow for color correcting and color grading

I am an experienced user of PPRO CS5. I am a novice with color correcting and color grading. I am also just barely competant in AE CS5. It has been suggested that I use AE for color correcting my footage. Can you advise me as to the most logical workflow for doing this in coordination with PPRO CS5? Are there some tutorials that you recommend? I subscribe to Lynda.com and I think that they have some great tutorials, I am unsure as to where to begin looking and what to search for.
Thanks so much,
Lisa

lisaellensegal wrote:
I am an experienced user of PPRO CS5. I am a novice with color correcting and color grading. I am also just barely competant in AE CS5. It has been suggested that I use AE for color correcting my footage.
You can do it that way, sure. But you don't have to. You can accomplish quite a lot without leaving PPro. This has two major advantages. First, if you aren't using AE for anything else, it gets you out of using AE at all, so gets you out of climbing another set of learning curves.
Second, even if you are using AE for other things (I use AE to make motion lower thirds, for example), doing the work in PPro can improve exporting speeds. This is because AE gets restricted to a single processor core in some workflows as discussed in this thread and others (search around if you're interested). This can make exporting take 3x as long or longer, depending on how much footage has to be processed by AE.
So, how to do color correction without leaving PPro? Use either a luma corrector or luma curve effect to set black and white points, and contrast (use a waveform monitor to help). Then use a three way color corrector effect to get rid of any residual color casts (use the vectorscope to help, and the RGB parade, etc.).
If you find you have specific colors that need to be fixed, you can apply another three way color correction effect and use it to make that secondary color correction (for example I find the blue dyes used in many labels tend to fluoresce under fluorescent lighting, and has to be desaturated with a secondary color correction or it "blooms" on an HDTV -- IOW, it has to be made "broadcast safe").
If you want tutorials for using these tools, the ones on Creative Cow by Andrew Devis are quite good, and free. The ones on color correction with PPro cs6 start at tutorial number 47. There's a bunch of them. All good.
Finally, get a copy of Van Hurkman's Color Correction Handbook. May be the best technical book I've ever read, and it'll certainly point you in the right direction for doing color correction work regardless of which tools you use to do it.

Color Grading - Adobe Speed Grade or ..?

Hi!
I'm looking for suggestions and opinions on Color Grading Software. I've been editing videos for about a year for my aerial video business, and am admittedly getting over my head and want to take my editing to the next level.
I'm upgrading all of our gear in the next few weeks, and need to step up my knowledge and ability. I'll be diving deep in e-learning, tutorials, and the Adobe community forums (which are absolutely amazing I must say). I currently have an Adobe CC membership and use Pr for both my editing and Color correction (which mostly consists of Brightness/Contrast, Luma Curve, Shad/High, and the occasional pre-packaged warming filter).
I have a lot to learn, and I know the software is just a tool...but I'm looking for suggestions on what software to begin with. I love adobe and would love to keep everything within the Adobe CC world, but I know Speedgrade is somewhat new and there are other major players in the color grading world.
If you have suggestions on CC software, pro/cons on Speedgrade, or even useful hints or tutorials regarding Speedgrade or where to start with CC that would be appreciated.
Thanks everyone
Craig

Speedgrade pros:
Extremeley powerful for color-grating (perhaps not quite to the level of resolve, but plenty for most users)
Well integrated with Pr and AE via dynamic link (especially compared to a non-adobe app)
Speedgrade cons:
A bit of a learning curve (but probably nothing a few good tutorials can't remedy)
So, if you're using PrPro and AE as your main editing and effects tools (not to mention photoshop, audition and perhaps lightroom), then Speedgrade seems like a no brainer to me unless you already have a lot of time and assets fully invested in some other color grading solution. I'm truly not just trying to hawk out producs, it just seems to make the most sense in your case.

Replicating movie color grading in photoshop

Hello all,
Been one of those topics I've been meaning ot investigate further for a long time.
I am just wondering when I go to watch movies like The Matrix, Minority Report, Skyline / actually just about every movie that comes out thes days obviously has color grading done throughout with certain hues heavily used in some movies/scenese to help convey the mood/message of a particular scene
I'm hoping to be able to learn to replicate such effects in some of my photographs using photoshop. I know I can use color balance/color mixer for basic hue adjustments, but I am hoping to be able to replicate the feel of what I see in some movies.
I guess I'm looking for some more advanced tutorials on the subject.
Any help would be great
Subtle blues
subtle greens

Most of movie color grading can be done using Levels and sometimes Curves.
Localized corrections (make just the red brighter) need other adjustments, of course.

Color grading with scopes?

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