COLOR - INDD vs PS

Hi.
I am importing a tiff file from photoshop into indesign. I made the background color (on the tiff from photoshop)the same as the background set in indesign so I wouldn't have to do a clipping path.
The colors look slightly different. Is this because of my printer or is something else going on? It is the same color, but showing up a little different. What should I do?
Thank you!

There are at least two possibilities for what you are seeing. The first is that the tiff and the InDesign document are in different color spaces, so when you import the tiff the colors are being converted to the working space and are shifting. This can easily happen to you if you use don't synchronize color settings, and even if you do when the color space of the incoming image is different (perhaps you are using someone else's image) and your settings don't have the profile warnings enabled, like the US General Purpose set.
If the image has an embedded profile, and policy is set properly, the numbers will be interpreted as you specify, either converting to the working space or assigning the working space as you determine. When there is no embedded profile, InDesign assumes the image is in the working space unless you tell it otherwise, and if profile warnings are turned off, you never never see this happen.
Less likely, but also possible, is that the color shift is the result of raster/vector processing differences in the RIP at print time. This is not an issue on screen. An InDesign frame filled with color is is a vector object, while your photo is raster.
Another possibility is simply that the color is different. Photos, unless you make an artificial solid background in Photoshop or another editor, never have completely even background color. Your ID background may match the particular pixel or group of pixels you sampled, but not the area at the edge of the image border.
One way to narrow down what is happening is to open the info panel and select the image. Do you see profile information? Does it match your working space? Another useful thing would be to open the separations preview panel and turn on separations, then hover the cursor over the image and the background to read the numbers.
Peter

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Js import colour swatches from an other file

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Hi Romano,
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INDD to PDF: web-safe color palette?

Context: currently, the Google Docs Viewer/Embedder, when used to display a PDF in a browser, heavily downsamples images in the PDF resulting in grisly color changes and posterization. This has been discussed for a long time elsewhere on the web (example) and is something Google might eventually deal with.
I assume Google's intention was to hack down bandwidth usage, which I don't begrudge them, but the results stand out glaringly in an otherwise vibrant WWW. Embedded fonts work fine, and the only other visual/layout errors can be with some more advanced design effects—unless they are flattened down to Acrobat 5 compatibility.
With the nasty color changes, what I believe I'm seeing is a re-processing of the images in the PDF with ye olde web-safe color palette. Or maybe its paleolithic predecessor. FYI the source PDF is unaffected. And FYI, yes, I am aware of many other options for embedding a PDF in a web page; I'd like to try and solve this one.
My thinking is this: if I can output my InDesign file such that images are converted more gracefully to a web-safe palette, and possibly with more satisfactory color dithering, then the results via the Google Docs Viewer/Embedder might be improved, more predictable, good enough for now.
I know how to do this with Photoshop, and I assume it's a Photoshop engine working behind the scenes in/for InDesign when processing images, so I'm hoping this is attainable.
Semi-educated guesses:
That a suitable color profile could be created and selected when outputting either PDF or PS, resulting in 255-color (indexed) RGB images in the final PDF layout.
That the long way is to make alternate versions of each image used in the layout, swap them (such as with relink to file extension, e.g. GIF for TIF), and output a version specifically for embedding.
Thanks in advance for any creative thinking.
Edit: it's looking like the limit is far fewer colors, possibly 16. Gross. But I'm still curious about the possibility of a method for this, as it could have other applications.

After getting both your replies, I went back and experimented some more. I am creating a pdf for a b&w book interior, and it is setup as an ID book, with two files. I was trying to generate the pdf from the book.indb file without the individual book indd files being open. That resulted in the screen in my initial question.
I went back and doubleclicked both of my book indd files and selected both, then generated the pdf from the book.indb file. This time I got the proper choices Document CMYK - U.S. Web Coated ....

Photo Files Losing Color when placing in INDD...

Hi, using INDD CS6,I am noticing my jpg files are losing some of their color information when I link them into INDD, I am doing a photo book, and the colors really need to be preserved. It's almost like they are being compressed a little in INDD similar to what we see on compressed PDF output. I have check my color spaces, etc, all seem to be good and consistent between the apps. I am attaching a screen shot where I overlaid the same jpg displayed in preview next to the same file linked to in INDD.
Thank you.

A few things at play here, I think. First, do you see the the little red dot with the question mark in the upper left of the frame in ID? That means the link is missing. ID can't do a proper preview if it can't find the link. Second, ID is color managed. As far as I know, Preview is not. A more accurate check would be against the image in Photoshop. Third, you've got a drop shadow. I suspect the Image is RGB and the transparency blend space is set to CMYK. Fourth, you are, indeed, looking at a compressed preview, not the actual pixels. The quality of the preview depends on the settings (display quality) and the size/resolution ratio at which the image was saved.

Incorrect Process builds Pantone Color tables in INDD CS6 and CC.

Why are the Pantone Color tables/libraries in INDD CS6 and CC giving the incorrect process builds?

I did just that in CS 5.5 and I received a different build. I got 100C,84.22M,41.89Y and 50.43K this is different than the builds I was getting before and matches neither.
If you want the legacy definitions you have to follow the directions in the link in Peter's #1 post—delete the new PANTONE + spot libraries, install the old libraries and uncheck Use Standard Lab Values for Spots.
They also provided their brand sheet and neither of these match the readings from Illustartor or InDesign.
If you don't want color managed conversions of spot colors Pantone now provides CMYK simulation libraries—PANTONE + Color Bridge. Those colors are process and will attempt to simulate solid spot colors but for one assumed press profile. Color Bridge builds are still different from the legacy CMYK builds.

When printing on a digital press, why are the colors different between INDD & PSD?

I've created the exact same CMYK mix in both InDesign and Photoshop. When printed on a digital press they are not the same color. Any ideas how this can be fixed/solved?

Sounds like the RIP treats raster and vector objects differently. see InDesignSecrets » Blog Archive » Eliminating YDB (Yucky Discolored Box) Syndrome for a discussion of how this affects transparency interactions, and how to work around it. I suspect you can cure it by adding transparency to the master page and using the custom flattener method.

Can't print .indd booklet to PDF; opens print utility instead of Acrobat

Thanks in advance for any help you can lend.
I have a 16 page .indd document that I'm trying to export via "print booklet", using Adobe PDF 9.0 as my printer. Every time I try to print as a PDF, it goes through the process of compiling the images, loading fonts, etc., but then my printer utility opens (obviously giving an error) instead of Acrobat. When I just choose export as PDF I have no issues whatsoever; Acrobat opens and it saves properly. I need the document, though, in a saddle stitch imposed format for the printer.
I'm on Mac OSX Lion 10.7.2
Acrobat X version 10.1.3
Adobe InDesign CS5.5
The setting summary of the print dialogue is as follows:
Print Preset: [Custom]
Printer: Adobe PDF 9.0
PPD: Adobe PDF 9.0
PPD File: /var/folders/74/_l7wb86j7plcvb5kz2hwgmh00000gn/T//4f9757064d509
Print Booklet
    Booklet Type: 2-up Saddle Stitch
    Auto Adjust Margins: On
    Top Margin: 0.2917 in
    Bottom Margin: 0.2917 in
    Left Margin: 0.2917 in
    Right Margin: 0.2917 in
    Space Between Pages: N/A
    Creep: 0 in
    Bleed Between Pages: N/A
    Signature Size: N/A
    Print Blank Printer Spreads: On
General
    Copies: 1
    Collate: Off
    Reverse Order: Off
    Pages: All
    Sequence: All Pages
    Spreads: Off
    Print Master Pages: Off
    Print Layers: Visible & Printable Layers
    Print Non-printing Objects: Off
    Print Blank Pages: Off
    Print Visible Guides and Baseline Grids: Off
Setup
    Paper Size: Tabloid Oversize
    Paper Width: 12 in
    Paper Height: 18 in
    Page Orientation: Landscape
    Paper Offset: 0 in
    Paper Gap: 0 in
    Transverse: Off
    Scaling: 100%
    Constrain Proportions: On
    Page Position: Centered
    Thumbnails: Off
    Tiling: Off
Marks and Bleed
    Crop Marks: On
    Bleed Marks: Off
    Registration Marks: Off
    Color Bars: Off
    Page Information: Off
    Printer Mark Type: Default
    Crop Mark Weight: 0.25 pt
    Mark Offset from Page: 0.0833 in
    Use Document Bleed Settings: On
    Bleed Top: 0 in
    Bleed Bottom: 0 in
    Bleed Inside: 0 in
    Bleed Outside: 0 in
    Include Slug Area: Off
Output
    Color: Composite CMYK
    Text As Black: Off
    Trapping: Off
    Flip: None
    Negative: Off
    Screening: Default
    Simulate Overprint: Off
    Frequency: 60
    Angle: 45
Graphics
    Send Data: Optimized Subsampling
    Download: Complete
    Download PPD Fonts: On
    PostScript®: Level 2
    Data Format: ASCII
Color Management
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    Color Handling: Let InDesign Determine Colors
    Printer Profile: Document CMYK - U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2
    Preserve CMYK Numbers: On
    Proof Profile: Document CMYK
    Simulate Paper Color: On
Advanced
    Print &as Bitmap: On
    Bitmap Resolution: 300
    OPI Image Replacement: Off
    EPS: Off
    PDF: Off
    Bitmap Images: Off
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I'm on Mac OSX Lion 10.7.2
Acrobat X version 10.1.3

I'm a Windows user, so I may not have this exactly right, but printing to PDF from Print Booklet on Mac is a two-step process -- first you printto Postscript file using the Acrobat 9 ppd, then you distill the file. I think you'll find more details at InDesignSecrets » Blog Archive » Acrobat’s Adobe PDF Printer Replaced in Snow Leopard

Bad photo prints on HP Color LaserJet CP5225dn Printer

Hey all,
Having an issue outputting photos on my new HP Color LaserJet P5225dn printer from Adobe products. Am curious if anyone else might have run across the same issue and possibly found a solution. Here's the background information...
Running Windows 8.1 Pro.
HP Envy Phoenix w/Intel core i7-4770 CPU @ 3.40 GHz
32 GB RAM
2TB Raid 0 HD
NVIDIA GeForce GT 640
Spyder-profiled HP Pavilion 25xi monitors (dual setup)
Running Adobe Creative Cloud (latest builds--issue present in prior versions, too).
Using HP Universal Print Driver PS (latest version--only option on Windows 8), but have tried PCL 4 and 5 drivers as well.
When printing from Adobe products, any photo seems to print without the yellow color. Color swatches and vector files print correctly. This issue seems to only apply to raster images--greens print blue, browns print purple, oranges print magenta. I have had HP support out to examine hardware of printer and everything checks out.
I have tried every combination of ICC profile, paper setting imaginable. Have tried printing as CMYK and RGB. Have reset preferences in Adobe software. Color issues are present in InDesign, Photoshop, and Illustrator, and the images print consistently off in all products (is purple in INDD is also purple in PSD, etc.). I have reset printer to defaults. I have tried removing color management and printing. I have tried printer diagnostics. I have tried having the printer manage color. I have tried having the application manage color. Everything prints consistently wrong.
I've updated video drivers, searched for ICC profiles specific to the printer, recalibrated monitors, no dice. Funny thing is that when you take that same file and send it to another printer, it prints accurately.
Any ideas for troubleshooting are much appreciated. Any solutions would be fantastic.
Matt

Yeah, tried printing from PDF and image issues persist. I'm not sure what's going on if everything checks out from hardware standpoint. Appreciate your suggestions though.
Thumbs up!
Matt Schroeder
Chief Creative Monkey
Big Opposable Thumb
O: (719) 373-1887
M: (719) 761-9672
"Intelligent Design for Evolved Marketing."
Sent from my mobile device. Please excuse brevity and typos.

Mac OSX 10.5: "Let InDesign Determine Colors" is my only option.

ID 6.0.3
Trying to print to my Epson R2400 inkjet: I'm getting lousy colors and wasting an immense amount of ink toggling all the various options in trying to get a decent print.
"Color Management" has a "Color Handling" dropdown-control but it's stuck on "Let InDesign Determine Colors". I'm sure I'd get better colors with this printer if IT could manage them. How can I fix this?

(A) InDesign's print dialog is where one
is supposed to be able to print from. Saving to another app and
printing from there is counterintuitive and a total waste of time.
(B)
Yet another layer of options and settings to wade through. And print
settings in Acrobat are not, to the best of my knowledge, saved with
the doc.
(C) Yet another file to
store, make room for and keep track of. Not surprisingly, the
print-quality pdf I just created is substantially larger than the .indd
file it originated from.
Im not looking to argue the issue, but instead to maybe shine a different light on this...
(A) Agreed, you should be able to print straight from ID, but its not a waste of time. Quite the opposite. Exporting to PDF lets you FAR more accurately preflight your documents before print as well as (assuming you export using X1a compliance) flatten them properly. MANY times you will have font issues at print, printing from Indesign will leave you blind to these, as well as flattening issues AND spot color issues resulting from converting them outside of the native applications they were created in.
(B) Again, that is one way to look at it. I however see it as the Only print dialogue i ever deal with. I export everything to PDF, (AI, Quark, Indesign, photoshop everything) then print. I only need to know that one dialogue. As for print options, i just save them for different types of printing, jsut a few saved profiles will cover most prints.
(C) Cant argue here. The ID file doesnt inclued all the links so it is MUCH smaller... but also much less portable, compatable etc.
I dont use PDFs to print because i have to, i do it because in my humble opinion, the benefits are just too many to pass up.

Why do I get a colored shadow behind shadow and feather transparency areas when printing?

Hello,
I've been pulling my hair out over this and finally went to my printer to ask if they had insight as to why this is happening. I'll include his reply here but would like to hear your expert opinions too!
When laying out a file in InDesign, I do a lot of overlapping, feather and some drop shadow and always get a colored shadow behind the transparency area when printing out from a pdf. These files are being designed for print, which is what I thought InDesign was created for - as an updated alternative to Quark and Pagemaker? Here is what the printer says:
"Ive taken a look at the file in question and the issues this lady is experiencing can not be resolved in InDesign. What she needs to do is build the background image with color overlays all in Photoshop as a Layered PSD. Then flatten it and pull it in to InDesign as a Tiff. Then she can place her text over the top of it. She needs to use image masks on the color overlays - for the areas she does not what the color to violate.
What it comes down to is these fancy design effects out of InDesign and Illustrator should never be used for printing. They can be used for web design. Reason is, they cause RIP problems. Things fall off the file and transparent areas go away just to name a few. This happens all the time."
I would appreciate any other viewpoints here. Can I really NOT use the shadow and feather functions in InDesign for print? Are there any other ways to approach this problem other than what is being advised here. It is SO much easier to produce the entire file in InDesign.
Here is a link to the pdf. If someone would like to see the original indd file, I can post it somewhere.
http://displaysunlimitedinc.com/test/panel_3_text.pdf
There is a 1 inch blur drop shadow on the black and white temple image; a 1 inch feather on the black and white screened back image behind the main text box; and no drop shadow or feather on the map at top right, yet I get a colored shadow behind all 3 of these areas when I export the indd file to pdf and print that out. The fact that I get a shadow behind the map puzzles me.
Thank you very much in advance.

Horgycat,
The CMYK/RGB question is actually pretty complex, and depends to a great extent on how the final output is going to be produced.
If the files are destined for a printing press, all RGB elements must be converted to CMYK prior to printing. You have the option of doing that before placing in ID, or during export to PDF, and there are pros and cons to both methods, but if you don't know until the last minute what the print conditions will be, the convert on export path is more flexible.
Spot colors are a different matter. As far as I'm concerned, you should NEVER specify a spot color unless you are actually using spot ink on a press. A lot of inkjet and laser devices claim to be Pantone certified, but the reality is that even with expanded gamuts available using more than four inks, I'd estimate that better than half the Pantone solids are not reproducible as simulations that would satisfy me or my clients. The convert spot to process route should only be used, in my opinion, when you've designed a job properly to be printed using spot colors, and suddenly you have an output change or an added image that forces you to move to a process output. The last time I tried it, by the way, I had issues at the printer (the regular prepress guy was out of town, so I'm not sure what went wrong) and I ended up re-building the file with real process colors to get the transparency to work.
But you mentioned that you are doing exhibition panels, which implies to me that they are probably NOT going on a press -- you need to do hundreds, or sometimes even thousands, of copies to make a press cost-effective compared to digital printing. I used to work in a large-format output bureau doing just this kind of work, and we used large inkjet plotters. In this case, mixed RGB and CMYK files are less of an issue since most plotters will handle either, and depending on if they have an internal or external RIP or none at all, you may actually get better color fidelity using RGB as CMYK colors may get converted in the RIP to the RGB values that the plotter understands, and then get converted back a second time to CMYK (CMYKOG or whatever ink combination is used) internally before the ink is sprayed. Only the print provider would be in a position to tell you the correct color space for the equipment.
Which of course puts you at a bit of a disadvantage working with a client out of state who isn't supplying you with such necessary information as the correct output profiles for the job. It will be a miracle if the color is close.
A final word about looking funky on screen. Just as many spot colors can't be well simulated in CMYK, many also cannot be displayed adequately on a monitor. The ONLY way to choose spot colors is with a swatch book, and that's what the press operator will be using to verify his work. Clients need to be educated about the differences in technology and the limitations of soft proofs.

Opening INDD files in Windows7 that were created on a Mac

I'm not even really sure if this is a PC - Mac issue but here goes.....
I am having performance issues, particularly with type, switching between tools and updating links. All of these seemingly simple tasks are inordinately slow. The INDD CS6 docs were created on an iMac with an i7 processor and plenty of RAM (I know because I created the documnets). Now I am having to open these CS6 docs at another location using a Dell with an i7 quad core and 24 gigs of RAM running Windows7. The issue seems to effect docs that are very graphic heavy. On the other hand other Mac generated docs open and run just fine on this Dell. Both the imac and the pc being used are heavily equipped and shouldn't have any problems.
One note: all the files in question were sent via a browser based FTP connection.
Can anyone help or am I doomed to watching the little blue ring in windows7 spin forever?

Thanks. I knew about the missing font issue. Once those were loaded or replaced performance got a little better. However, I didn't know about the color profile issue. I switched the application to use the working profile rather than the document profile and that seemed to help. These files in particular that I'm having issues with were also transferred via ftp and during the time frame they were transferred there were some strange anomalies when downloading or uploading to the ftp. The files could be slightly damaged but not enough to destroy the file completely.
Thanks for your help.

Colored InDesign docs are wrongly being exported as black and white PDFS

Hello Sirs/Madams,
I am a new user to InDesign. I use InDesign CS4.
I have an .indd file that I created (simple, just text, nothing else). I went to Windows -> Swatches and changed the color of the page to dark blue (modifying the RGB). On screen, it looks EXACTLY like I want it.
But the problem is when I select File -> Export to PDF and I select ANY of the pdf profiles, it prints ONLY in black and white. I have messed around with many options, including using the File -> Print option (to Adobe Acrobat 8 Professional BTW) and it *still* creates a black and white pdf!!!
What am I doing wrong? Please can you help me?
All I want is that whatever colors I can see on the screen should be in the PDF, including the document/page area, which I set via the Swatches window. I apologize if its simple enough but please provide a measure of leeway considering I am taking baby steps here...
Thank you in advance.

The paper swatch is for preview on screen only and is intended to allow you to see how your document will print on colored paper. If you want to print a solid background you'll need to draw a frame and fill it with that color.
Bob

Setting page size in INDD for crown quarto in p ( point?)

hi- not sure this is a " problem" so much as a question.
I am revising my project ( never " approved" final yet:).
the book specs are for crown quarto- which I want. I need to convert the INDD-pdf into specs that match crown quarto. I have the numbers 7.44x9.68 ( or 18.91cmx24.589 cm), etc. HOWEVER.. when I went into the INDD file for page setup.. and custom page layout. it is listed in/ as 36p0 and 54p0... not inches or centimeters.
SOOOOO... what specs/numbers do I need to enter so that it fits a crown quarto layout?
thanks
Teri

Quoting Peter Spier <[email protected]>:
hi again,
( btw- those B masters do have dotted X's through the page.
placeholder thingy?).
anyway- trying to figure out how to do what you are suggesting.. not
so much worried/ tentative.. as .. maybe I need the 101 on
placeholders first.. because I'm not sure I am following what you
described ( and you're clear.. that isn't the difficulty:) I think I
just have a gap in the knowledge base..
and yeah- revert and undo are wonderful inventions:)
is there a video/ demo on the placeholders somewhere? btw- i'd be
more than happy to let someone look at the raw file to see what was
done.. ( not asking.. just not hoarding,either:) then someone might
know what to tell me to do, or how to do it.. if they could tell what
was already done/ how set:
thanks so much- what a great learning adventure:)
Teri
I meant move the position, since presumably the size and shape is correct.
Here's how placeholders work: When you place content into them on
the document page they remain linked to the master page for any
attribute you don't subsequently change on the live page. A typical
example would be a placeholder text frame on the master for a
headline (in this case it probably would have text in it that said
Put headline here, and you'd override it manually to change the
text, but the principle is the same).
You change the headline on the live page, but do nothing else. Now,
if you go back to the master page and chnage the color or the font
size of the text in the palceholder, the color of or font size your
live headline will also change. If you move the headline frame on
the master page, the headline will move on the live page.
If, however, you decided to change the font size from 14 pts to 18
pts onthe live page, but then changed it from 14 pts to 24 pts on
the master page, the one you changed on a live page would not be
affected by the size change.
I sense you are nervous about trying this. You can't do any real
damage by trying. Save the document before you, and if it doesn't do
what you want you have both the undo command and the revert command
available.
Peter
>

Unable to Print pages08 with pictures to color printer

I am not able to print color pages08 documents containing photographs to my HP 4650 color Laser. I am not able to figure this out. The HP 4650 Color Laser has 128 MB's Ram and never gives me a problem with 20-25MB doc's or 50-60MB color photo files.
The pages file I can not print is a mere 7.6 MB's
Here's the steps I've taken in my investigation: resaved & remamed the file, resaved & renamed on a different drive w/200 GB's free space. Tossed out my pages08 preferences & restarted (Preferences>com.apple.iwork.Pages.plist), and repaired my colorSnyc profiles. After each/all of these I have no luck printing to my HP 4650 color Laser.
Next I created a 3.8MB pages08 test document with 4 pictures dropped into it from iPhoto6. This test file with 4 pictures is 3.7Mb's. Here's my consistent results
I can print this document
- directly from pages08 on my HP 4200 B&W Laser Printer (256MB ram)
- from Preview as a "reduced file" size pdf (version 5 or lower)
I can not print this document to my HP 4650 color Printer
- directly from pages - printer says "20 insufficient memory"
- directly from Preview - printer says "20 insufficient memory
Next, I exported from iphoto6 the same 4 pictures (in original dimensions) to Photoshop & InDesign.
I can print this test document on my HP 4650 color
- directly from Photoshop (.psd file size is 27.8MB)
- directly from Indesign (.indd file size is 2.2MB)
Next, I used the "Template Choose">"Extreme"
- OK printing template (as is) directly to HP color before & after saving
- NO printing after adding 4 different pics using iphoto6
- NO printing after adding 3 different pics using iphoto6
- NO printing after adding 2 different pics using iphoto6
- NO printing after adding 1 different pics using iphoto6
What's up?, there seems to be some hidden printing preference here that is limiting me to adding anything to a pages document, or pages is not handling the information properly.
Any more ideas I can follow? I've never experiences an insufficient memory issues in any other applications with any other documents other applications.

I've replaced the HP printer driver and had no change, my pages08 documents with picture(s) added will still not print.
I can print the pages08 templates as they exist, but when I add or replace even one picture (using iPhoto) the document will not print to my HP Color printer yet will print on my HP B&W printer.
Additionally, I can add 10-20 more pictures and the B&W printer continues to print perfectly. HP claims this is an application program and not the trouble of their printer. I have to agree since only pages document with pictures is my culprit, every program and every massive size document I want to print
There seems as if an invisible limit exists that I surpass when I add a picture. Are there any preferences or settings I've missed, a cache I should clear?
Aside from upgrading to pages09, I hope you can assist with some helpful remedies, thank you.

INDD CC: How to load Pantone libraries into swatch palette?

I see the Pantone libraries in the INDD application folder -- how can I load them into the swatch palette?
thnx

Then I can create an ASE file and load into any doc.
You might want to be careful about that, any spot colors that are in the document's Swatches panel are added as an individual ink. In CC2014 you would no longer be able to turn on overprint preview and there would be issues with exporting and outputting unless you turn on All Spots to Process in Ink Manager. The better approach would be to use the chart documents as a "palette" and drag and drop the desired color(s) from the chart into your working document.

COLOR - INDD vs PS

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