Color management isn't helping me

Hi there, someone please help me out?
I'm designing in illustrator CS3 on Windows 7 64-bit. I'm having difficulty syncing color with my network printing, a Sharp MX-5500N. No matter how I tweak the color management settings in the print dialogue, I always seem to get the same result. The only way I can get satisfactory results is if I change apply the color profile of the printer to the document I am working in and then completely redo the colors of my artwork. But no matter what, when I try to export the artwork to PNG and place it in a Microsoft Word or Publisher File, it prints completely bogus, purple is way too blue. Should windows color management prevent this? What am I doing wrong?
Thanks
Dalton

Hi Emil, sorry I disappeared, I've kind of had to put this on the backburner, but now I have process pantone swatches to compare to and know a little better what I'm doing.
Here is where I am at:
I used the Adobe bridge to find the closest CMYK values to my Pantone colour. On my screen, they look completely wrong compared to my swatch, which is most likely my display's fault. (I can't seem to get it calibrated; this has obviously been part of my problem) Anyways, these values print completely wrong. So I tried using ai’s conversion tools both how you described and just in the print dialogue. The result is slightly better, but still awful. I see that the profile conversion does work quite similar to the conversion in the print dialogue. It is converting the colours, but not properly. Also, I tried that cool web program, but it was unable to read my printers icm file.
My conclusion is that for whatever reason the colour conversion isn’t working with this printer. So I went ahead and painstaking found out what CMYK values print closest to our pantone from this printer, something the conversion should be doing for me. I found a value I like, so as long as I print from illustrator and preserve CMYK values I am happy. It doesn’t matter whether I pick SWOP or the printer’s icm in the dialogue under “printer’s colour profile” I get the same result. I believe this is because, since everything I am printing is illustrator shapes, no colour management takes place. (Don’t feel bad telling me I am wrong if I am)
BUT
How can I get these same results once I export the PNG?
I appreciate your PDF suggestion Emil, but no one else where I work will be able to do that. They need to be able to drag the PNG into a document, click print, and get the right results. So I need find out what I need to set the colours to in illustrator to export them and get PNGs that print.
So I sort of did what you suggested Emil, I converted them to the printer profile and then exported them. The results were better but still not great.
However, I am able to export JPEGs and TIFFs no problem, whether or not I embed the profile. They print fine. However, I need transparency. Metafiles, whatever that is, has the same problems as PNG.
Thanks for all your help Emil, I guess my new and final question for you, or anyone, is: How can I export to a file that supports transparency with reliable colours?

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Monitor color management: can somebody help? thx

Strange thing happened today on my PC, I hope someone can help…
Pdf files has strange color shift in Acrobat 8 and Reader 9 as well, Win XP. The change came suddenly. On other PCs the same files look fine. JPGs, video and other files are OK.
I compared settings Preferences/Documents and /Color management and didn’t find any differences - all are defaults. I re-installed both programs, no change.
Have a look at the picture, left is the correct version, right is from my PC:
Thanx for any suggestions
Martin

More than likely a corrupt monitor profile.
Re-calibrate and profile your monitor (which will create a new monitor profile.)

JPEG and color management

Hi. Is it impossible to get 100% identical colors (if we leave aside the jpeg compression artefacts) when saving a .jpeg file with Photoshop using the highest quality setting (12) ?

Thanks for helping in this test despite hating JPEGs
Your screenshots proves that there are differences not only along hard edges (i.e. the borders between color patches), but that also whole color patches are affected.
This would mean, that color management isn't working properly with jpeg files. I hope someone with sound color management knowledge can confirm this or otherwise explain the problem.
> When using the Magic Wand (which I confess I don't understand what that is supposed to prove)
I try to explain once again:
1) Download the original source file (png) from the link above
2) open it in Photoshop and assign sRGB profile
3) save it as jpeg with highest quality settings possible (12)
4) open the jpeg file
5) add it as new layer over the png file
6) select "difference" as blending mode in the layers palette
7) now the whole image should appear almost black
7) select the magic wand tool (with abovementioned settings!)
8] click somewhere into the formerly gray area
explanation: you just selected all completely black pixels (0,0,0) i.e. all pixels that are identical in both layers
9) you should see "marching ants" forming rectangular patterns
10) invert the selection (Shift+i)
explanation: the selection now covers all the other pixels, i.e. all pixels which are different between both layers
11) create a new empty layer and select it in the layers palette
11) set the foreground color to white
12) fill the selection with white (alt+backspace on Windows, accordingly on Mac)
13) set the blending modes of all layers back to normal
explanation: you now have the image I posted above, i.e. you see all identical pixels in their respective color and all different pixels in white
The expected results would be white pixels along the borders between color patches, resulting from jpeg compression, but if color management works correctly there must not be entire color patches with the wrong color (i.e. white here)

Desperately Seeking Color Management Help: iMac G5

I need some input concerning color management.
I need to find a way to match the output from
a Fuji Frontier 390 printer to the display
on my iMac G5 so that "what I see is what I get".
I use a Canon EOS 1D Mark II to capture, and I make
minimal corrections to levels or contrast in
Adobe Photoshop Elements 2.0, and I find that some
prints look muddy or oversaturated coming out of the
Frontier, even though they look fine on the iMac's display.
I understand the basic concept of color management and I know that I "should" be able to get the display dialed in to match the printer using Color Sync or some other utility, but I need help with the specifics.
A FujiFilm technician explained to me that I could download a printer profile for the 390 from Fuji's website and use that with my image editor but it seems that I am unable to do that while using the "blue collar" Photoshop Elements package. I think that I would have to upgrade to the full Photoshop package (though I'm not totally certain) and I'm really not too interested in doing that.
Could I get some pointers from any of you color gurus out there? Any info will definitely be appreciated!
Thanks, Alan

I didn't mention that I am also a photofinisher and
I am the one doing the printing on the Frontier,
so I know the chemistry and the paper are all
"up to snuff". I also have seen the info on
drycreekphoto.com and they say that I cannot
do what I am wanting to do with my Photoshop Elements
because that program isn't robust enough for it.
The Frontier generates an "upkeep" print with each paper- or emulsion-change; I was wondering if I could employ one of those prints to set a benchmark for my iMac monitor, or if I would go about it some other way. I'm hoping to get some nuts-and-bolts suggestions from someone who has already dialed their iMac in to match a Frontier; I figure there must be a few out there!
Thanks for your suggestions,
Alan

Need help with color management

I am looking for someone to help me. Please!
I am looking for help with Photoshop/printer not printing correct colors.
I have: Windows 7, Photoshop CS5, Photoshop Elements, HP Pavillion Laptop, new Okidata C530dn color laser printer
Previously I had a Canon Pixma MP620 and a gentleman from another forum gave me the correct settings for printing on photo paper and colors were perfect. I now have a OKIdata C530dn color laser and have started a business printing business cards and greeting cards, etc., and I do advertisements on a freelance basis.
I will be working a lot with cardstock or cover stock 65-110 lbs paper. I have an old OKIdata 2024e at work, and the colors are much better with that printer than my new personal one. I have tried matching the settings of that printer to mine to no avail. I have finally gotten the color close, but not quite. When I print on my Canon injet the colors match and print perfectly.
I have tried every setting variation that I can think of to get the color correct with my new OKIdata. I have to get the colors correct or my new business will go under because I can't match colors for my customers. I am a self taught Photoshoper and a novice so please bear with me.
Using Okidata PCL. Also have PS
Color settings in Photoshop:
North America General Purpose 2
sRGB 2.1
U.S. Web Coated Swop v2
Dot gain 20 %
Dot gain 20 %
Preserve embeded profile
Preserve embeded profile
Preserve embeded profile
engine: Adobe (ACE)
Relative Colormetric
Tried RGB color mode and CMYK color mode, no difference
Printer settings:
Photoshop manages colors
sRGB 2.1 Printer profile
Relative Colormetric
Print setup:
Letter
Multipurpose tray
Weight: printer settings-default (when I used heavy setting for cardstock it printed green instead of the color light blue, so that was a start to the right color)
Job Options:
Hight Quality
Color: No color matching
Printer preferences in Printer properties:
Color management
Device: Display 1 generic PnP monitor AMD M88og with ATI Mobility Radeon HD4200
ICC Profiles: Generic PnP Monitor (default)
Advanced:
Windows Color System Defaults:
everything under this tab is set at System Default
I have gotten the color close, but colors are dull. I have tried an adjustment layer and setting the saturation higher, but that doesn't help. I know my laptop is showing the right colors, (calibrated) because I am still printing to the Canon with cardstock and the colors are perfect using the same settings above.
Tried printing in PSE and it gave me an error that it was not a post script printer. Installed ps driver, still getting errors and it wouldn't print.
I would appreciate any help you could give me before I run out of toner and have to buy the expensive toners, or just slit my wrists j/k LOL
Thanks! JS

You need an ICC profile for your printer. Chromix has an excellent service at http://www2.chromix.com/colorvalet/ which will do this calibration for you. You download some software they provide, then print a test file on the exact same paper you are using for your cards. Then send the output to them and they will calibrate the colors with their equipment and send you the ICC profile file. Once you have it, you'll be able to print accurate colors.
There are other services out there that may cost less, but I do not know how reputable they are. Chromix is a good business I've worked with many times.
If you are trying to run a business and you don't understand color management yet, you may be in for a lot of trouble. Please get the book "Real World Color Management" available at http://www.colorremedies.com/realworldcolor/ and it will save you a ton of money and headaches.

Color management problems - help please!

Hello, I'm trying hard to understand color management and to make colors consistent throughout my workflow, and I'm failing miserably despite reading and re-reading the help files. I'd REALLY appreciate some help with my specific problems, which I'm going to detail here.
WHAT I DO
I make pictures for use on the Web. I do both this by photoshopping existing photos, and by digitally drawing and painting in photoshop starting from a blank document.
HOW MY SYSTEM IS SET UP
1) I have my monitor set to sRGB, and I've calibrated the colors using the Viewsonic calibration app that came with the monitor. The resulting colors look good, to my eyes at least.
2) I've set up Photoshop to use sRGB as the working RGB colorspace, and to convert RGB images to the working colorspace
3) I've set up Photoshop's Save For Web to embed the color profile, to Convert to sRGB, and to Preview with Use Document Profile
THE PROBLEM I'M HAVING
The preview I see in the Save For Web preview screen exactly matches the source document. However, after saving for web, the color of the jpg or gif is significantly different to that of the original document.
If I change the preview mode to Monitor Color, it does show an accurate representation of the jpg or gif that will be saved, but of course as I've explained that is drastically different to the source document.
WHAT I NEED
1) I need the output jpg or gif to match the source document
2) I need to understand what's going wrong so that I can gain some insight into this process. I'm finding it very confusing
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Mark

Mark,
What model of viewsonic do you have? And is it a CRT or LCD?
If it's a CRT, there are some software based "eyeball" calibrators which can get you in the ballpark. If you have an older version of Photoshop you can use the Adobe Gamma utility that was included in CS2 and earlier versions.
After that, my previous advice still stands, but the best results are still going to be to bite the bullet for a colorimeter and live with the peace of mind that will give you.
If your Viewsonic is an LCD, you're much more limited, as the eyeball calibrators were never designed for LCD's. You can try them and they may be better than nothing, but no guarantees.

Color management help needed for adobe CS5 and Epson printer 1400-Prints coming out too dark with re

Color management help needed for adobe CS5 and Epson printer 1400-Prints coming out too dark with reddish cast and loss of detail
System: Windows 7
Adobe CS5
Printer: Epson Stylus Photo 1400
Paper: Inkjet matte presentation paper with slight luster
Installed latest patch for Adobe CS5
Epson driver up to date
After reading solutions online and trying them for my settings for 2 days I am still unable to print what I am seeing on my screen in Adobe CS5. I calibrated my monitor, but am not sure once calibration is saved if I somehow use this setting in Photoshop’s color management.
The files I am printing are photographs of dogs with lots of detail I digitally painted with my Wacom tablet in Photoshop CS5 and then printed with Epson Stylus 1400 on inkjet paper 20lb with slight luster.
My Printed images lose a lot of the detail & come out way to dark with a reddish cast and loss of detail when I used these settings in the printing window:
Color Handling: Photoshop manages color, Color management -ICM, OFF no color adjustment.
When I change to these settings in printer window: Color Handling: Printer manages color. Color management- Color Controls, 1.8 Gamma and choose Epson Standard it prints lighter, but with reddish cast and very little detail and this is the best setting I have used so far.
Based on what I have read on line, I think the issue is mainly to do with what controls are set in the Photoshop Color Settings window and the Epson Printer preferences. I have screen images attached of these windows and would appreciate knowing what you recommend I enter for each choice.
Also I am confused as to what ICM color management system to use with this printer and CS5:
What is the best ICM to use with PS CS5 & the Epson 1400 printer? Should I use the same ICM for both?
Do I embed the ICM I choose into the new files I create?
Do I view all files in the CS5 workspace in this default ICM?
Do I set my monitor setting to the same ICM?
If new file opens in CS5 workspace and it has a different embedded profile than my workspace, do I convert it?
Do I set my printer, Monitor and PS CS5 color settings to the same ICM?
Is using the same ICM for all devices what is called a consistent workflow?
I appreciate any and all advice that can be sent my way on this complicated issue. Thank you in advance for your time and kind help.

It may be possible to figure out by watching a Dr.Brown video on the subject of color printing. Adobe tv
I hope this may help...............

Color management issues with Flash CS3, please help?

Hello everyone.
I am having issues with color from a Jpeg image produced in Photoshop CS4
after importing onto the stage in Flash CS3. The color in Flash changes the image to a lighter less saturated state. Yuk.
Here is a link to a screen capture to show you what's happening (for a bigger view):
http://www.rudytorres.com/color/weirdcolor.png
As you can see the front image is the Photoshop image showing the sRGB color profile embedded but Flash (behind) changes that color.
This client is quite picky and she will notice this difference.
If any one can help, please.
- Rudy
P.S. It's a button somewhere, Right?

Dougfly,
Only an hour wasted? Lucky you. Color is an incredibly complex subject. First, forget matching anything to the small LCD on the back of your camera. That's there as a basic guide and is affected by the internal jpg algorithm of your camera.
2nd, you're not really takeing a color photo with your digital camera, but three separate B&W images in a mosaic pattern, exposed thru separate red, green and blue filters. Actual color doesn't happen until that matrix is demosaiced in either your raw converter, or the in-camera processor (which relies heavily on camera settings, saturation, contrast, mode, etc.)
Having said the above, you can still get very good, predictable results in your workflow. I have a few color management articles on my website that you might find very helpful. Check out the Introduction to Color Management and Monitor and Printer Profiling. In my opinion, a monitor calibration device is the minimum entry fee if you want decent color.
http://www.dinagraphics.com/color_management.php
Lou

Need help understanding profiles and color management

I made the big leap from inexpensive inkjets to:
1 Epson 3800 Standard
2 Spyder3Studio
I have a Mac Pro Quad, Aperture, PS3, etc.
I have a steep learning curve ahead, here's what I've done:
1 Read a lot of books, watched tutorials, etc.
2 Calibrated the monitor
3 Calibrated the printer several times and created .icc profiles
What I've found:
1 The sample print produced by Spyder3Print, using the profile I created with color management turned off in the print dialog, looks very good.
2 When I get into Aperture, and apply the .icc profile I created in the proofing profile with onscreen proofing, the onscreen image does not change appreciably compared with the no proof setting. It gets slightly darker
3 When I select File>Print image, select the profile I created, turn off color management and look a the resulting preview image it looks much lighter and washed out than the onscreen image with onscreen proofing turned on.
4 When I print the image, it looks the same as was shown in the print preview...light and washed out, which is much different than what is shown in edit mode.
5 When I open PS3 with onscreen soft-proofing, the onscreen image is light and washed out...just like displayed in PS3 preview. If I re-edit the image to look OK onscreen, and print with the profile and color management turned off, the printed image looks OK.
So, why am I confused?
1 In the back of my simplistic and naive mind, I anticipated that in creating a custom printer profile I would only need to edit a photo once, so it looks good on the calibrated screen, and then a custom printer profile will handle the work to print a good looking photo. Different profiles do different translations for different printers/papers. However, judging by the PS work, it appears I need to re-edit a photo for each printer/paper I encounter...just doesn't seem right.
2 In Aperture, I'm confused by the onscreen proofing does not present the same image as what I see in the print preview. I'm selecting the same .icc profile in both locations.
I tried visiting with Spyder support, but am not able to explain myself well enough to help them understand what I'm doing wrong.
Any help is greatly appreciated.

Calibrated the printer several times and created .icc profiles
You have understand that maintaining the colour is done by morphing the colourants, and you have understood that matching the digital graphic display (which is emissive) to the print from the digital graphic printer (which is reflective) presupposes a studio lighting situation that simulates the conditions presupposed in the mathematical illuminant model for media independent matching. Basically, for a display-to-print match you need to calibrate and characterise the display to something like 5000-55000 kelvin. There are all sorts of arguments surrounding this, and you will find your way through them in time, but you now have the gist of the thing.
So far so good, but what of the problem posed by the digital graphic printer? If you are a professional photographer, you are dependent on your printer for contract proofing. Your prints you can pass to clients and to printers, but your display you cannot. So this is critical.
The ICC Specification was published at DRUPA Druck und Papier in Düsseldorf in May 1995 and ColorSync 2 Golden Master is on the WWDC CD for May 1995. Between 1995 and 2000 die reine Lehre said to render your colour patch chart in the raw condition of the colour device.
The problem with this is that in a separation the reflectance of the paper (which is how you get to see the colours of the colourants laid down on top of the paper) and the amount of colourant (solid and combinations of tints) gives you the gamut.
By this argument, you would want to render the colour patch chart with the most colourant, but what if the most colourant produces artifacts? A safer solution is to have primary ink limiting as part of the calibration process prior to rendering of the colour patch chart.
You can see the progression e.g. in the BEST RIP which since 2002 has been owned by EFI Electronics for Imaging. BEST started by allowing access to the raw colour device, with pooling problems and whatnot, but then introduced a primary ink limiting and linearisation.
The next thing you need to know is what colour test chart to send to the colour device, depending on whether the colour device is considered an RGB device or a CMYK device. By convention, if the device is not driven by a PostScript RIP it is considered an RGB device.
The colour patch chart is not tagged, meaning that it is deviceColor and neither CIEBased colour or ICCBased colour. You need to keep your colour patch chart deviceColor or you will have a colour characterisation of a colour managed conversion. Which is not what you want.
If the operating system is colour managed through and through, how do you render a colour test chart without automatically assigning a source ICC profile for the colourant model (Generic RGB Profile for three component, Generic CMYK Profile for four component)?
The convention is that no colour conversion occurs if the source ICC device profile and the destination ICC device profile are identical. So if you are targetting your inkjet in RGB mode, you open an RGB colourant patch chart, set the source ICC profile for the working space to the same as the destination ICC profile for the device, and render as deviceColor.
You then leave the rendered colourant test chart to dry for one hour. If you measure a colourant test chart every ten minutes through the first hour, you may find that the soluble inkjet inks in drying change colour. If you wait, you avoid this cause of error in your characterisation.
As you will mainly want to work with loose photographs, and not with photographs placed in pages, when you produce a contract proof using Absolute Colorimetric rendering from the ICC profile for the printing condition to the ICC profile for your studio printer, here's a tip.
Your eyes, the eyes of your client, and the eyes of the prepress production manager will see the white white of the surrounding unprinted margins of the paper, and will judge the printed area of the paper relative to that.
If, therefore, your untrimmed contract proof and the contract proof from Adobe InDesign or QuarkPress, or a EFI or other proofing RIP, are placed side by side in the viewing box your untrimmed contract proof will work as the visual reference for the media white.
The measured reference for the media white is in the ICC profile for the printing condition, to be precise in the WTPT White Point tag that you can see by doubleclicking the ICC profile in the Apple ColorSync Utility. This is the lightness and tint laid down on proof prints.
You, your client and your chosen printer will get on well if you remember to set up your studio lighting, and trim the blank borders of your proof prints. (Another tip: set your Finder to neutral gray and avoid a clutter of white windows, icons and so forth in the Finder when viewing.)
So far, so good. This leaves the nittygritty of specific ICC profiling packages and specific ICC-enabled applications. As for Aperture, do not apply a gamma correction to your colourant patch chart, or to colour managed printing.
As for Adobe applications, which you say you will be comparing with, you should probably be aware that Adobe InDesign CS3 has problems. When targetting an RGB printing device, the prints are not correctly colour managed, but basically bypass colour management.
There's been a discussion on the Apple ColorSync Users List and on Adobe's fora, see the two threads below.
Hope this helps,
Henrik Holmegaard
technical writer
References:
http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?14@@.59b52c9b/0
http://lists.apple.com/archives/colorsync-users/2007/Nov/msg00143.html

Help - Color Management Confusion!

I'm hoping someone can give me some clear guidance as to how to configure my software to integrate color management so that what I see on my monitor is comparable to what I print or post on the web. I've read all I can find on-line and looked through a number of books and magazines, but as my reading increases, so does my confusion - too many menus, options, links and connections. I'll describe what I have in terms of hardware and software in as much detail as possible. My hope is that someone can help me figure out how to coordinate color management across all platforms and outputs.
I run an HP desktop with an ASUS IPD monitor. I have ColorMunki and have reguarly conducted their diagnostic, which gives me an updated monitor profile every two weeks - when a new profile is created, it becomes my default under Windows 7 Control Panel Color Management. I print with an Epson Stylus Photo R1900 with Epson paper and ink. I use the printer and paper profiles supplied by Epson for the R1900 and specific papers.
On the other end, I have Nikon photo equipment. I set the color space on my cameras to ProPhoto and I shoot exclusively in Nikon raw format - .NEF. I shoot a D90 and a D7000 with 12M and 16M files respectively. I download directly from the SD card using Windows Explorer and then import into Lightroom 3.
I have Lightroom 3 and Photoshop CS5 Extended. I use Lightroom to import raw files into the catalog and to do basic editing. From there, I publish to Smugmug as .TIFF files - directly from Lightroom. I also export files from Lightroom to Photoshop CS5 Extended and save them as .PSD and .JPEG files. The files that I export to Smugmug look pretty good - similar to what I see on my screen. My real conundrum is with the Epson printer and Lightroom/Photoshop. What I see on my monitor is very different from what prints. From both platforms. As a rule, the shots are too dark and the colors are often very muted. This is especially true with images of people and skin tones. They often come out looking pale gray or blue.
Right now, my solution is to tweak and print until I get something close enough to print, while the image on my monitor looks horrible. Needless to say, this is not a viable solution for the long term - it is too expensive and time consuming. I've tried to read and then adjust adjust both programs, but I'm confused as to what to set where. I've taken to explorting Lightroom files into Photoshop to use the soft-proof capability. it works better but still not great and not consistent. When I do the Photoshop soft-proof, I see signficant portions of most images as "out of gamut>" I also notice that these areas are often the ones with odd colors.
My problem, (well, one of them) is the multitude of menus that have color management inputs - how do I make sure they are all working together and reinforcing each other instead of working at cross purposes? In Lightroom, I have Page Setup and Print Preferences, as well as Color Management options in the Print Module right hand panel. In Photoshop, I have Print and Page setups, as well as Color Management menus. There are also the Proof menus to consider.
In Photoshop, softproofing, I think I ned to select teh printer profile so that Photoshop is showing me how the printer will interpret the color space. I also think I need to be consistent in how I define the workspace - from Nikon to Lightroom to Photoshop to Epson. If I use ProPhoto with my camera do I need to use that in every circumstance? Should I switch to Adobe RGB? I have printer setting color space turned off in both LR and PS.
Can someone walk me through any or all of this? Right now, all of these moving parts is making me dizzy. It's said that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. This proves the point. Three months ago, I had color management problems but had no idea what such a thing was. Now, I know a lot more about it, but my results are no better - worse in some respects. Anyone who can help will earn major Karma points and hae my undying gratitude for several months. Sorry - that's all the compensation I can offer!
Thanks in advance for any help.

Lundberg02 wrote:
is that the hand of God in the picture?
That was a nearly mature tornado forming in Nebraska, and it dissipated at the last moment because at that time the sun went down and the temperature dropped rapidly. I was glad, because I was camping in a travel trailer at the time, and everyone knows trailers attract tornados.
Lundberg02 wrote:
Please explain why and under what circumstances anyone would want to use a device independent profile as a monitor profile, which should be a device dependent profile.
Here's one example, to answer your specific question:
You have a monitor that provides sRGB performance (e.g., via a specific sRGB setting). You judge (and/or ensure via your own calibration) that it provides satisfactory sRGB color accuracy for your needs, so you set the monitor profile to sRGB, which is accurate in this case.
What does this do for you?
Images displayed in Internet Explorer, which assumes your monitor is sRGB regardless of your profile, are now properly color-managed because you have made IE's assumption valid. By the way, Microsoft does not appear to be going to change this behavior any time soon.
Untagged images, considering a majority of untagged images assume sRGB encoding, are displayed properly by apps that just pass them through to the display. Some browsers do this.
sRGB images (the majority) are displayed properly by non-color-managed apps. If you choose to set your preferred working space to sRGB, then your own processed images will display properly using your non-color-managed apps. Such apps include various viewers, the thumbnails in Windows Explorer, etc.
The sRGB IEC61966-2.1 profile is a clean, well-formed color profile and works well in virtually every color-managed application. It's the Windows default, so you can imagine most apps are very well tested with it.
Screen grabs are already in the sRGB color space, so if your working space is sRGB then you gain simplicity and don't have gotchas when mixing screen grabs back into your workflow.
Since the color-gamut is not wide, the distance between adjacent colors in a 24 bit color environment is smaller - the display of gradients looks smoother, and you might not crave 30 bit color quite so much.
There are other subtle advantages as well, simply because so much of software development throughout history has assumed the representation of color images on computers is sRGB. It's akin to "going with the flow".
In short, setting up a soup-to-nuts sRGB system means more images match more often across more applications with a system set up this way. If I'm not mistaken, that's about what the original poster is asking about, which is why RikRamsay's response is not unreasonable.
And there are, of course, some specific disadvantages to doing this.
For one thing, one does not have the direct ability to work with a wider gamut of colors. There are those who wish to work in wider gamut color spaces, have wide gamut monitors, and wide gamut printers. Brighter, better managed colors may well help such a person set his/her work off from the crowd. This is starting to become more and more important in this day and age of better and better wide gamut hardware.
It's not straightforward to set up a system so that its sRGB response is accurate, though it is doable. Can you trust the factory sRGB calibration of a monitor that advertises sRGB response characteristics?
-Noel

Help - color management issue, sunburns! (with a calibrated monitor)!

I love Lightroom and its workflow, its unlike anything of its kind. However, lately (since I first started using it) I've seen a problem related to color management on my computer (I believe) and hope someone out there can shed some light.
After importing JPG pictures into Lightroom and making modifications to them, I am getting *completely* different results once I export them (as sRGB, as I'll be sharing them via web). All of the pictures are coming much more saturated (for a lack of a better description).
Here is what I am getting (see brief descriptions below each pic): http://www.bachmannphoto.com/test/couple.html
I'd be very curious as to how they are showing up on your (calibrated/uncalibrated) screen(s), but the 1st and 3rd pics are showing up as 'realistic' on my PC, while the middle (exported from Lightroom) is showing up as too much saturation and even reddish push, as though the couple got hit with sunburns.
Another example of this result here: http://www.bachmannphoto.com/test/dog_chair.html. Though in this case, the picture in the middle actually looks better, it doesn't change the fact that I am getting very different output than what I see in Lightroom (or in photoshop without the embedded profile).
I am thinking this is a problem with color management settings on my PC. First guess would have been "monitor calibration"... but as mentioned in the title, I calibrated my monitors (I have two Dell 1905FPs... not great for accurate color representation, but they do the job) repeatedly, using Spyder2 Pro.
What pushes me to think this is the following (represented here http://www.bachmannphoto.com/test/couple_original.html ):
Before making any modifications to the imported sRGB picture - in other words, importing the picture straight from the camera memory card into Lightroom and then exporting it back (again, without making any modifications to it) - the pictures, both the original and the exported which still look the same and are kept sRGB, look completely different in Lightroom then if I was viewing them in a non-color managed software on my PC, such as the default windows picture viewer.
If my LCD panels are properly calibrated, should I not be more or less seeing the same image colors, whether I'm viewing them through windows, or through Lightroom (or Photoshop along with the embedded sRGB profile)? What gives??
Jesse
PS. I *more* than appreciate anyone taking time to respond to this post. I've been up for nights now trying to understand/fix this.
If it's any help, I have the different version (but original and exported) files here:
original file:
http://www.bachmannphoto.com/test/couple_original.JPG
Original file, imported into Lightroom and then exported back out w/o any modifications (sRGB): http://www.bachmannphoto.com/test/couple_lightroom-nomidification_exported_srgb.jpg
Original file, imported into Lightroom, MODIFIED and then exported back out (sRGB):
http://www.bachmannphoto.com/test/couple_lightroom-modified_exported_srgb.jpg

Exiftool reports the original contains the following EXIF tags:
Interoperability Index : R98 - DCF basic file (sRGB)
Interoperability Version : 0100
The nomidification_exported version does not have those lines, but contains the actual sRGB profile:
Profile CMM Type : Lino
Profile Version : 2.1.0
Profile Class : Display Device Profile
Color Space Data : RGB
Profile Connection Space : XYZ
Profile Date Time : 1998:02:09 06:49:00
Profile File Signature : acsp
Primary Platform : Microsoft Corporation
CMM Flags : Not Embedded, Independent
Device Manufacturer : IEC
Device Model : sRGB
Device Attributes : Reflective, Glossy, Positive, Color
Rendering Intent : Perceptual
Connection Space Illuminant : 0.9642 1 0.82491
Profile Creator : HP
Profile ID : 0
Profile Copyright : Copyright (c) 1998 Hewlett-Packard Company
Profile Description : sRGB IEC61966-2.1
Media White Point : 0.95045 1 1.08905
Media Black Point : 0 0 0
Red Matrix Column : 0.43607 0.22249 0.01392
Green Matrix Column : 0.38515 0.71687 0.09708
Blue Matrix Column : 0.14307 0.06061 0.7141
Device Mfg Desc : IEC http://www.iec.ch
Device Model Desc : IEC 61966-2.1 Default RGB colour space - sRGB
Viewing Cond Desc : Reference Viewing Condition in IEC61966-2.1
Viewing Cond Illuminant : 19.6445 20.3718 16.8089
Viewing Cond Surround : 3.92889 4.07439 3.36179
Viewing Cond Illuminant Type : D50
Luminance : 76.03647 80 87.12462
Measurement Observer : CIE 1931
Measurement Backing : 0 0 0
Measurement Geometry : Unknown (0)
Measurement Flare : 0.999 %
Measurement Illuminant : D65
Technology : Cathode Ray Tube Display
Red Tone Reproduction Curve : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)
Green Tone Reproduction Curve : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)
Blue Tone Reproduction Curve : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)
The modified_exported version likewise does not have the interoperability index tag but contains the actual sRGB profile:
Profile CMM Type : Lino
Profile Version : 2.1.0
Profile Class : Display Device Profile
Color Space Data : RGB
Profile Connection Space : XYZ
Profile Date Time : 1998:02:09 06:49:00
Profile File Signature : acsp
Primary Platform : Microsoft Corporation
CMM Flags : Not Embedded, Independent
Device Manufacturer : IEC
Device Model : sRGB
Device Attributes : Reflective, Glossy, Positive, Color
Rendering Intent : Perceptual
Connection Space Illuminant : 0.9642 1 0.82491
Profile Creator : HP
Profile ID : 0
Profile Copyright : Copyright (c) 1998 Hewlett-Packard Company
Profile Description : sRGB IEC61966-2.1
Media White Point : 0.95045 1 1.08905
Media Black Point : 0 0 0
Red Matrix Column : 0.43607 0.22249 0.01392
Green Matrix Column : 0.38515 0.71687 0.09708
Blue Matrix Column : 0.14307 0.06061 0.7141
Device Mfg Desc : IEC http://www.iec.ch
Device Model Desc : IEC 61966-2.1 Default RGB colour space - sRGB
Viewing Cond Desc : Reference Viewing Condition in IEC61966-2.1
Viewing Cond Illuminant : 19.6445 20.3718 16.8089
Viewing Cond Surround : 3.92889 4.07439 3.36179
Viewing Cond Illuminant Type : D50
Luminance : 76.03647 80 87.12462
Measurement Observer : CIE 1931
Measurement Backing : 0 0 0
Measurement Geometry : Unknown (0)
Measurement Flare : 0.999 %
Measurement Illuminant : D65
Technology : Cathode Ray Tube Display
Red Tone Reproduction Curve : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)
Green Tone Reproduction Curve : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)
Blue Tone Reproduction Curve : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)

Help - monitor calibration-color management disaster!

I'm hoping someone can help me with this problem that is driving me nuts. I'm trying to get my monitor calibrated so that what I see on the screen, in terms of color hue/tint/saturation and overall brightness, is what I get out of the printer when I print a photograph. Right now, what I see on my screen has no relationship to what comes out of my printer. In order to get one decent print, I'm having to print 3 or 4 test runs to adjust color, brightness, saturation and balance. It's ridiculously time-consuming and wasteful of paper and ink. There has to be a better way.
Here's my situation: I have Photoshop Elements 8, and am running it on Windows 7 OS. I have a ViewSonic flat screen monitor and an Epson r1900 printer that is dedicated to photographs only. I've bought and installed HueyPro to calibrate the monitor, but the results were not good. After installing HueyPro and running the calibration, the results it gave me are useless for both viewing the monitor and printing pictures. There is an obvious blue cast to the monitor screen image, and the oranges and reds are oversaturated and neon bright. The image on the screen looks like the dog's dinner. When I try to print with that screen profile, the pictures are overly dark, and the skin tones have a grayish and bluish cast that makes them look like the work of a beginning embalmer. I have PE8 set to always optimize for print and my camera is set to Adobe color management.
In order to adjust, I've turned the HueyPro calibration off. For every picture I want to print, I have to open it in RAW, select the Vivid or #3 calibration, max out the fill shadows and adjust the exposure. Then, I save it to Photoshop, where I use layer-screen to lighten the picture - sometimes twice. What I see on my screen is a washed out, faded image that looks horrible in every respect. But, when I print it, I get a good if not great picture with decent brightness and colors.
I'd rate my results as a C - maybe a B- on a very good day. That's after all of the jiggling and tweaking. Before, the results are an F, but only because that's the lowest score possible. This can't be the best that is possible. There has to be something out there that I'm not doing right, or something that I'm not doing at all. I'll take any and all help/advice.

Would that cause the disconnect between what I see on my screen and what the printer produces?
It should not.
Is either PE8 or the printer the better option, or does it matter?
I would experiment with both. As long as it is just one of them at a time. Good luck!
Juergen

Color Blind - Color Management help

Hello all.. I was wondering if there was some utility out there that can tell me how to best match colors for design of sites? I am partially color blind and matching colors isn't possible for me. Is there a tool i can use that I specify 1 color, then it tells me all the colors that i can use to match to it properly?
thanks
www.doggsonline.com

Hi Dog Lover!
Have you had any luck finding information since your original posting?
There are resources on the internet that offer those with normal color vision a glimpse at what colors a color deficient observer might perceive, but I haven't heard of any tools for doing the reverse...
The actual in-the-brain process of color sensation isn't fully understood yet, so anything that simulates what someone with color deficiency might see is an educated guess at best.
Check out www.colorhelper.com. There's a software product called the eyePilot that allows you to distinguish a single color apart from any others on a web page or other sources of visual media. I don't know how accurate it is, and I haven't tried it myself, but there's a trial version available so perhaps it could be useful.
Your best bet would be to have someone you know with normal color vision check your web pages and give you feedback on what colors work well together. You can also check color coordinate values (RGB, Lab, etc.) on images in Photoshop by using the eyedropper tool and the "INFO" information window.
Hope this helps!

Color management on LCD displays, need help

Dear all,
I know the same topic has been already raised so many times, but i just can't help to ask it again. I am sorry for that, I just realize I will at least get a concept of what to do next. Ppl here are helpful.
I don't own any Apple monitor. I have a Macmini, connected to a new SONY LCD display, SDM-HS95P, by DVI connector.
As everyone knows the situation of LCD monitors. They have higher contrast, brigther image that traditional CRT monitors. That's why photographers and graphic designers are blaming all the time.
And now, I face the same as they do. My monitor is no more "WYSIWYG". The red i have here, may become another red on printing. The yellow I have here, may become orange on CRT.
I calibrated with the Colorsync of OSX, I decreased the contrast and bright level of my monitor, but they dont help much.
Someone suggested here to purchase color management hardwares. Of coz i know they are helpful. But the point is, how can a little student to afford a such expensive hardware for only doing color management?
Apple displays are all in LCD these days, how does Apple help their users to overcome the mentioned situation?
I know this maybe just a never-ending question, but i think ppl here may come up with some new ideas in resolving this.
Please kindly help, much appreciate! Thanks!
regards,
KKCHUNG
Macmini 1.25 GHZ/ 1GB ram Mac OS X (10.4.3)

Hi.
Apple cinema displays do not offer the user the ability to adjust the contrast. You need to be able to adjust contrast when calibrating the 2nd monitor to match the target white and black luminence values of the first monitor.
Contrast is needed in order to adjust the white luminence value of the monitor you are calibrating. You need to be able to adjust the black and white luminence values of monitor 2 when using the white and black luminence target values from monitor 1 if you want both monitors to be calibrated so that they use the same (same but seperate) profiles.
Colorvision (makers of spyder2 pro) has indicated that this is a huge issue with the ACD monitors and they are currently researching a workaround.
If anyone knows how to fix this... please tell me (us)... thanks.

Pleae Help me, I've tried it all, Color management broken? (Photoshop only)

Hey guys... I'm at the brink of despair....
whenever I open an Image in Photoshop its colors are completely corrupted (color management broken)
I've tried the following things so far....
Reset Photoshop setting vie holding ctrl + alt + **** while startup - didn't work
Synchronize color settings via Bridge - didn't work
Reinstall Photoshop - didn't work
Adjust my monitor - didn't work
Opened through bridge - didn't work
Does anybody know why its only Photoshop ?
All other software don't seem to have problems, I viewed them in Irfanview and the windows picture viewer and they are correct, but as soon as I open them in Photoshop they're broken..
The color Profiles are the same (Ps settings are sRGB, the image is also set to sRGB) yet broken colors.
Mostly the saturation/brightness and the the color spectrum seems to be incorrect...
Anyone with helpful advices ?
I am studying Communications-design and need to work with PS
Please help
Love
Oz

Ah got ya, with some images, the colors always doffer, sometimes I open an .jpg in Camera raw first to adjust some values and open it in ps afterwards and I dunno why some pics just won't be displayed correctly...
So My Monitor is not a really good one (Samsung Syncmaster p2470) its default ICC profile is: Samsung - Natural color pro 1.0 ICM
I realized that pressing alt + ctrl + shift doesnt affect the color settings... What's the default for that btw ?
So is my monitor even able to display the whole adobe rgb color spectrum or should I go for srgb instead ?
And after setting the color profile for the monitor, should I set my color settings in ps to "monitor" or to the color profile itself ?
But no matter what I should leave the "View" section right ?
Thx
Oz

Color management isn't helping me

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